Has Blissey worked herself out of a job?

[GamerFaggot666]

In my opinion, Blissey is actually a really bad pokemon.
You may say, it walls special attacks better then anything in the game! EXACTLY. Because of Blissey, nearly every special attacker in OU has some method of killing her. She basically did such a good job of annihilating special attacks that she's almost out of a job.

Of the top 100 most commonly used pokemon, how many can she wall without being set-up fodder or Exploded on?

Garchomp (47700 usages)

lol no

Gengar (46622 usages)

Hypnosis + Focus Blast beats it, as does Explosion or Destiny Bond.

Blissey (42632 usages)

Blissey clearly wins 100% of the time, no matter what.

Gyarados (39078 usages)

Even Bulkydos can 2HKO after a Dragon Dance. Thunderbolt 2HKOs
back and it can be flinched by Waterfall. Thunder Wave can be Taunted.

Tyranitar (34321 usages)

lol.

Bronzong (31893 usages)

It can set up Stealth Rocks, Rain Dance, or Hypnosis then Explode when it gets bored.

Lucario (31403 usages)

The worst matchup vs Blissey is specs Lucario, and even he can 2HKO.

Heatran (29582 usages)

Explosion or even Metal Sound.

Infernape (27881 usages)

Ahahaha.

Metagross (26655 usages)

Blissey loses again.

Salamence (25919 usages)

Dragon Danced Life Orb Brick Break OHKOs even the most defensive
Blissey. Choice Band and mixed both 2HKO. Blissey does wall specs Mence, but they are very rare now.

Starmie (25210 usages)

Blissey wins here (sort of). At least Starmie can Rapid Spin on it, and easily Recover off any damage. Neither will kill each other and it comes down to PP stall.

Swampert (23648 usages)

Standard Swampert / Mixpert loses one on one, but it can set up Stealth Rocks and Roar away Blissey. Boah-Swampert and Cursepert win though.

Weavile (22432 usages)

Blissey gets 2HKOed easily.

Skarmory (22236 usages)

Flamethrower / Thunderbolt is a 3HKO which Skarmory uses to set up Spikes and just Whirlwind Blissey away when it gets tired.

Celebi (22168 usages)

Calm Mind and Leech Seed beats it one on one, but generally Blissey
stalls those without it, like Starmie.

Gliscor (20164 usages)

Blissey walls it, and actually wins with Ice Beam. Needs to be careful of EQ critical hits though.

Forretress (19371 usages)

Forretress sets up whatever entry hazards it can, then Explodes.

Cresselia (17220 usages)

CM Cresselia wins, but otherwise it turns into a stall that Rest Cresselia will probably come out on top due to Rest PP stall.

Heracross (16556 usages)

Blissey gets destroyed.

Snorlax (15065 usages)

Blissey usually loses to Rest / Talk, always loses to Curse.

Togekiss (14768 usages)

Roost / Nasty Plot wins one on one barring Blissey's Thunder Wave screwing it over several turns in a row. Blissey is completely destroyed without Thunder Waving Togekiss. Blissey does beat paraflinch Togekiss however.

Azelf (14757 usages)

Life Orb Azelf 3HKOs Blissey after a Nasty Plot, but it might as well just explode.

Electivire (14502 usages)

Blissey loses to Cross Chop.

Mamoswine (13964 usages)

Blissey loses.

Yanmega (13880 usages)

Blissey beats this, although there is the rare Reversal set. But no one uses that...

Jirachi (13875 usages)

CM Jirachi crushes Blissey behind its 101 subs. Wish support Jirachi will just pass wishes as Blissey switches in, or set up Reflect / U-Turn away.

Breloom (13777 usages)

lol.

Zapdos (13258 usages)

Depends on the set. The Toxic / Substitute / Thunderbolt / Roost set wins one on one, as some Blissey Ice Beams can't even break a sub. But the majority of the time Blissey wins.

Dusknoir (12810 usages)

Pain Split and an immunity to Seismic Toss. It will be a stall match unless Dusknoir has Curse. Either way Dusknoir wins because of Presure.

Magnezone (12766 usages)

Explosion.

Hippowdon (12656 usages)

A stall match. Not much either will do, although Blissey will probably freeze it or crit with Ice Beam eventually.

Vaporeon (12630 usages)

Vaporeon without Toxic loses, but it can still pass wishes. Blissey won't do much back anyway.

Machamp (10803 usages)

Hah.

Porygonz (10490 usages)

Scarf and Specs loses. Nasty Plot usually loses without Hyper Beam, since it needs Nasty Plot several times before Blissey is threatned. Thunder Wave ruins Porygon Z.

Jolteon (10061 usages)

Fake Tears / Wish Jolteon wins. The sucky Baton Pass Jolteon is annihilated.

Milotic (9997 usages)

Barring Toxic on either side, its a stall match.

Dragonite (9823 usages)

Blissey walls specs Dragonite. Dragon Dance Dragonite destroys her.

Suicune (9808 usages)

Rest / Roar / Calm Mind / Surf Suicune wins one on one except vs CM Blissey. Other Suicune varieties without Rest lose though.

Ninjask (9553 usages)

Not sure why they'd fight. Ninjask might win assuming it predicts well. Swords Danced X-Scissors probably 2HKO.

Dugtrio (9550 usages)

Dugtrio 2HKOs Blissey, and Blissey 2HKOs back with Ice Beam. Charm Blissey does win.

Scizor (9525 usages)

Roost and Swords Dance crushes Blissey.

Donphan (9215 usages)

Donphan sets up Stealth Rock and Rapid Spins, but can not defeat
Blissey without critical hits.

Gallade (8336 usages)

lol.

Tentacruel (8088 usages)

Tenta sets up Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spins, but Blissey will win.

Deoxys-e (8058 usages)

Unless Blissey switches in on Superpower, Superpower will not OHKO, and can be Softboiled off to eventually be a 3HKO thanks to the stat drop.

Wobbuffet (7987 usages)

Wobbuffet will just Encore it and switch to a counter. Or do that Tickle + Tyranitar thing.

Alakazam (7812 usages)

Most of the time Blissey wins, although Calm Mind / Recover Alakazams, or Trick Alakazam will beat it. So will Specs Alakazam.

Kingdra (7759 usages)

Rain Danced Waterfall 2HKOs.

Abomasnow (7739 usages)

Substitute / Focus Punch / Leech Seed.

Spiritomb (7480 usages)

Pain Split and Seismic Toss immunity makes it a stall war that 'tomb wins because of Pressure.

Roserade (7350 usages)

Roserade loses, although it can set up Toxic Spikes / Spikes on Blissey fairly easily.

Aerodactyl (6496 usages)

Stone Edge 2HKOs.

Umbreon (6428 usages)

Mean Look + Taunt + Curse + Wish + Baton Pass.

Crobat (6392 usages)

Taunt + Roost + attacking move.

Charizard (6388 usages)

Blissey beats all Charizards except Bellyzard and Choice Band Charizard.

Weezing (6220 usages)

Weezing stalls for a long time with Pain Split, but probably loses without resorting to Explosion.

Froslass (5894 usages)

Froslass can set up Spikes while enduring resisted Ice Beams. Substitute protects it from Thunder Wave.

Rhyperior (5888 usages)

Earthquake 2HKOs.

Ambipom (5759 usages)

Fake Out + Last Resort crushes Blissey. Nasty Plotter can just Baton Pass out.

Empoleon (5536 usages)

Blissey wins barring Toxic / Rest Empoleon or Choice Band.

Sceptile (5515 usages)

Blissey beats Specs Sceptile, but looses to Subseed and Swords Dance.

Smeargle (5401 usages)

Smeargle just sleeps Blissey and uses her as set-up fodder.

Mismagius (5084 usages)

Taunt + Pain Split + Calm Mind + Dark Pulse. Mismagius wins with Mean Look / Perish song too.

Tangrowth (4194 usages)

Power Whip hits mildly hard, but Blissey just gets Sleep Powdered so it can't retaliate.

Slowbro (4159 usages)

Calm Mind + Slack Off. Slowbro wins if Blissey doesn't have Toxic.

Staraptor (3847 usages)

lol.

Hitmontop (3817 usages)

Close Combat.

Ludicolo (3765 usages)

Leech Seed makes it a stall battle.

Shuckle (3723 usages)

Seismic Toss 3HKOs. Shuckle loses.

Arcanine (3683 usages)

Flare Blitz 2HKOs although the recoil is nightmarish.

Azumarill (3630 usages)

Azumarill destroys it easily with Waterfall.

Raikou (3615 usages)

Blissey wins.

Gardevoir (3529 usages)

Calm Mind + Wish. Gardevoir wins most of the time.

Uxie (3441 usages)

Blissey walls it, but Uxie can lay Stealth Rocks and Yawn on Blissey.

Blastoise (3336 usages)

Blissey wins Blastoise can at least Rapid Spin.

Venusaur (3335 usages)

Leech Seed and Sleep Powder with stallish tactics will probably beat it.

Clefable (3332 usages)

Calm Mind Clefable wins. So does Belly Drum Clefable.

Cradily (3287 usages)

Swords Dance set wins. Toxic set wins.

Claydol (3286 usages)

Claydol can explode after setting up Stealth Rocks and Rapid Spinning.

Houndoom (3284 usages)

Houndoom can Nasty Plot, but even so Blissey probably wins.

Floatzel (3280 usages)

Taunt + Bulk Up.

Flygon (3160 usages)

Choice Band and Screech Flygon win, but mixed or specs Flygon lose.

Steelix (3053 usages)

Steelix sets up Stealth Rocks, but can't win without Explosion.

Feraligatr (3039 usages)

Swords Dance + Substitute decimates Blissey. Dragon Dance wins too,
but hates Thunder Wave.

Kabutops (2896 usages)

Swords Dance + Life Orb. Or Rain Dance + Life Orb.

Drapion (2866 usages)

Swords Dance wins.

Mesprit (2828 usages)

Calm Mind beats it, though Thunder Wave can be annoying.

Toxicroak (2821 usages)

Cross Chop.

Hariyama (2750 usages)

Close Combat or even Force Palm.

Honchkrow (2681 usages)

Blissey might win, although Choice Band Night Slash hits very hard.

Medicham (2624 usages)

lol.

Porygon2 (2506 usages)

Blissey walls the hell out of it, but with Recover Porygon 2 walls right
back. Some Porygon 2s have Toxic as a final move.

Swellow (2491 usages)

Guts + Burn Orb.

Shaymin (2482 usages)

Choice Speced Seed Flare can 2HKO with the 40% chance of a SD
drop. Sub Seed wins also.

Magmortar (2441 usages)

Blissey usually wins, although a critical hit from Focus Blast or a mixed Magmortar can beat Blissey.

Cloyster (2439 usages)

Cloyster sets up arena traps until it gets bored, then Explodes.

Ninetales (2412 usages)

Hypnosis + Nasty Plot. I would still put my money on Blissey.

Absol (2374 usages)

Swords Danced Brick Break.

Miltank (2281 usages)

With Body Slam and Milk Drink Miltank would probably win.

So of that whole list, how many things does Blissey have no fear against? How many things does Blissey wall, but only get walled back? How many things use Blissey to set up Spikes / etc?

As I said before, Blissey is such an incredible wall pure special attackers are almost extinct, unless they can beat Blissey one on one, or at least Hypnosis her.

Maybe if your team needs a 6th member, you need a Cleric, and you're slightly weak to Yanmega, Gengar, and Azelf it might work. But for the most part if you have a balanced team that covers each other's weakness's you should be able to stop Gengar, Azelf, etc without Blissey. Celebi can Thunder Wave and Heal Bell like Blissey, but it can also be an offensive threat. Spiritomb with Sucker Punch / Pursuit destroy Azelf and Gengar, and Zapdos / Gyarados beat Yanmega assuming you have something absorb the sleep.

In most cases, Blissey will do nothing more then sit around on your team, waiting for a rare special attacker to come around, and even then you have to pray it doesn't have an anti-Blissey set.

 

[Pneuma]

Awesome third post and true.
Keep in mind that Blissey also has the job of spreading status around and can stop most physical attackers, but yes, she has caused the community to pretty much stop using special attackers.

 

[merubin]

Ignoring for a moment that Blissey usage has stayed constant enough in 5 straight months of ShoddyBattle statistics, and places very, very highly in weighted as well as unweighted usage, meaning that she's not putting herself out of a job....

 

[Jolt99]

You state that blissey has become counter-effective, so does this make other special walls moot?

I kinda see your point on special attackers, I never see azelf, porygonZ or specsmence anymore...

 

[Tangerine]

Guys guys guys! The white mage isn't killing shit as much as the black mage! This must mean the White mage is a terrible unit!

 

[GamerFaggot666]

You state that blissey has become counter-effective, so does this make other special walls moot?

I kinda see your point on special attackers, I never see azelf, porygonZ or specsmence anymore...

No, other special walls can actually do things.

Regice can abuse STAB Ice Beam, and Snorlax can attack or whore off Curse. Cresselia can wall both spectrums and is arguably more usefull then Blissey because it can take out Garchomp (usually).

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Meh, I still think Blissey is one of the best Pokemon in the game. You don't usually have 1 on 1 battles with Blissey like you're implying either. With Blissey comes a lot of switching.

 

[Lady_Lyndis]

holy shit you covered a lot of pokemon. I agree, she is less useful, but the fact that she can wish pass, thunderwave, and (NOT WALL) force switches makes her still usefull. definately not the best pokemon though

 

[Jenigmat]

The reason that Blissey has so many counters is because it is a good pokemon. If I were to ask you for an Ariados counter you wouldn't have a specific pokemon designed to kill Ariados. The fact that you have to do special things to kill Blissey and that people actually do would indicate that Blissey is actually a very good pokemon.

I mean, it is arguable that Blissey's usage is more difficult with people trying harder and harder to counter it, but the fact that Blissey still has a really high usage proves that it is effective, even when people try to go against it.

 

[gorm]

Blissey usually wins, although a critical hit from Focus Blast or a mixed Magmortar can beat Blissey.

cross chop ?_?

Hypnosis + Focus Blast beats it, as does Explosion or Destiny Bond.

in my experience, unless it's LO and you dont miss ever, blissey usually wins vs nonspecs gar


one important thing that should be mentioned in alot of these matchups is that often people will just switch out to a more reliable kill

cool analysis though

edit: looking back this post was kind of dumb heh

 

[owac]

force switching and easy predict (you know what they are going to do to bliss most of the timeXD..)are bliss better weapons.. along with status

and breloom don`t easily kill bliss all the time.. he cant switch in a ice beam from bliss an spore with sleep clause isn't always a choice, bliss can break his subs so no focus punch and seed bomb isnt a ohko.. well leech seed can be a problem but then again he need a sub up

 

[Mekkah]

In a lot of cases, the Pokemon do not always carry such moves, and they sometimes run as much of a risk by standing in as Blissey. Like Salamence totally cannot afford to get Thunder Waved, Toxiced or Ice Beamed at the wrong time, nor can Dragonite, Aerodactyl or Ninjask.

That said, it's interesting, but it also shows Blissey already did her job, like forcing Gengar to use Focus Blast just to 2HKO her. He could use HP Fighting to do respectable damage to most other things, but without Focus Blast he's not touching Blissey.

She's definitely not bad. She is, in fact, doing her job without being on a team.

 

[TAY]

You're completely neglecting the fact that Blissey learns several thousand moves, and the fact that her defense really isn't that bad when her HP is factored in (she ranks similarly to Swampert on Dragontamer's defense tiers iirc). In addition, many of the pokemon you mentioned as beating blissey can't switch in on her at all, due to the threat of a T-Wave or a SE Ice Beam. LO Gengar can sometimes beat Bliss 1v1, but that requires 4 70% chance events occuring in a row, and if Blissey wakes up and uses T-Wave the gengar user will be in a much, much worse position than before.

 

[Syberia]

If Blissey use disappears, in time Special Attackers will make a comeback to the point where she is absolutely needed on every team.

 

[QibingZero]

Another thing of note is that Blissey plays right into the hands of many pokemon that it comes in on without worry.

All Baton Passers that get walled by Blissey are likely setting up a scenario to pass to something that is immune to or benefits from twave/toxic. Sub Passers like Jolteon usually have a Ghost wanting to get in on a Toss, a Steel wanting to get in on an Ice Beam, or something like CB Hera who doesn't care either way as long as he gets a free switch in to wreck stuff.

Of course Blissey is doing it's job without being on a team, but the interesting thing to question is whether or not it's actually doing a better job that way then it would being on your team.

 

[Phadunk]

She's still, and will forever be, the best Special Wall in the game.

I see YOUR point, but it doesn't change a thing.


@ Syberia: You're right, and imo, the usages of Pokemon will always fluctuate. Blissey will always.. always be around.

 

[Articanus]

I've always avoided to use her.

I'm probably not the only one, so that may be a reason she's fallen from most used....

I do say her position has weakened this generation, if for nothing but that Swords Dance becoming a TM. the best thing special attackers usually have is calm mind

 

[kd24]

She is used for the fact that she does beat specs salamence, porygon z, and starmie. and she can wall half of the game. I mean when was the last time you saw an azelf that ran explosion? usually it is scarf, specs, or nasty plot flamethrower psychic grass knot.

Give bliss more credit she can do so much stuff and can shut down teams. if she was obsolete she wouldnt have her usage even if it is decreasing.

 

[Kestrel]

Of course Blissey is doing it's job without being on a team, but the interesting thing to question is whether or not it's actually doing a better job that way then it would being on your team.

She still needs to be on someone's team, and there will never be a shortage of players using Blissey because she's the best at what she does. The fact that she's still something like no. 2 on the Shoddy OU ladder, even with the threat posed by special attackers with fighting moves specifically for Blissey, is a testament to that.

 

[rkatzam]

Your list is so false in so many parts.. but nevermind that: Blissey may not be able to hurt others much, but Thunder Wave or even Toxic on stall teams is more than enough to screw a pokemon for the rest of the game.

As for Salamence, Blissey still remains the safest switch against it, except for when you know it's gonna use Brick Break. Mence usually has a stronger attack for pokemon who aren't normal, thus it will be easier to predict when he'll use a Brick Break or an Earthquake or even Draco Meteor. She can paralyze the dragon and softboil the damage. Also LOL at Weavile getting paralyzed as well.

 

[GamerFaggot666]

My point is that Blissey can not switch in on these things without a risk. Isn't switching in on stuff the point of using Blissey?

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

There is like absolutely no point of this post at all. Every Poke has shit that it can win against, have shit switch in on against, beat other shit, and get 100% raped by other shit. I was bored enough I could make a list for any other Poke.

I'm also pretty sure Regice loses to more things than Blissey does as well.

 

[Kira]

I like how listed many mixed sweepers there. Of course mixed sweepers with a strong physical stab will beat blissey. That doesn't make her useless. She still takes special attacks like nothing.

Also you say she does nothing? What a joke.

She can spread status easily.

Last time I checked that sweeper you sent in to KO her really dislikes being T-waved or Toxiced

 

[GamerFaggot666]

I like how listed many mixed sweepers there. Of course mixed sweepers with a strong physical stab will beat blissey. That doesn't make her useless. She still takes special attacks like nothing.

Also you say she does nothing? What a joke.

She can spread status easily.

Last time I checked that sweeper you sent in to KO her really dislikes being T-waved or Toxiced

I said she can not switch in as easily as people seem to think, since nearly every pokemon in OU has a way of taking her out.

 

[Kira]

I said she can not switch in as easily as people seem to think, since nearly every pokemon in OU has a way of taking her out.

She can switch in on nearly any special attacker, that does not have a strong base attack or strong physical move. Special attackers either 2hko, or need to set up. If that is the case then she can just switch out.

Personally I invest in Sp.Def ev's now just to ensure no special attacker can kill her.