Pokémon Hawlucha

[RotomPoison]

Why are people obsessed with Poison Jab on this thing?

STAB Acrobatics is 165 while Poison Jab is 160.

IMO, Sky Attack, SD, HJK, Acro with a Power Herb and Unburden. Max Attack Adamant, but is Max Speed absolutely necesary. People almost always jump to max/max spreads but especially when using Unburden, (Mold Breaker is of course viable sometimes) is 252 needed? I could see the fastest relevant Scarfer outsped but nothing more, as it has to setup to hit that number, so don't say something like "outspeed +2 Terrakion" when obviously both won't be at +2 at the same time.

Oh and, MankeySharpedo Flying Gem is unreleased, and SD > PuP on something this frail, anything with access to SD never needs PuP (and horde training is better y/y)

 

[kefkakrazy]

STAB Acrobatics is 165 while Poison Jab is 160.

Gospel, folks. Hawlucha doesn't really need any coverage move besides HJK and Acrobatics. Most things that can resist Acrobatics get blown up by HJK (see my Mega Aggron calc above for Mold Breaker Hawlucha), leaving Hawlucha's real solid problems at Aegislash (which resists Acro and is immune to HJK), Talonflame (which 1HKOs with priority Brave Bird), and not much else.

The only coverage move that Hawlucha can even really run is Stone Edge/Rock Slide in the last slot, and to be bluntly honest Acro/HJK/SD with the fourth slot devoted to a supporting move (Roost/U-Turn/Encore/Baton Pass) is probably his best bet.

 

[kefkakrazy]

This thing would be so good, if it weren't for Flying Gem not existing. Until Flying Gem gets released, honestly there's no real point in using it imo.

I still believe that a bit of support or a free setup turn is enough to let Hawlucha destroy UU and below. He's not super vulnerable to priority (resists Mach Punch and is neutral to everything else), Fighting/Flying is absurdly good coverage, and there's enough merit to Limber or Mold Breaker sets to make them worth using. Limber maybe not so much (though being able to switch in on TWaves is nice), but Mold Breaker is still great fun.

Also, as a fun note, a Lum Berry set might work. Being able to use an attempted status move to switch in is a potential thing, too. Limber Hawlucha also stands a fair chance of being able to wreck something like SwagPlay, since it resists Foul Play and can't be paralyzed.

 

[Flan76]

Oh, i'm sure it's amazing in UU, but I was talking about OU.

 

[kefkakrazy]

Oh, i'm sure it's amazing in UU, but I was talking about OU.

To be honest, I feel like Hawlucha has way more problems in OU from his two major counters (Talonflame and Aegislash) being extremely high in usage than from lacking Flying Gem. Not having Flying Gem is something that can be worked around, but Talonflame can guarantee forcing Hawlucha out if it gets in clean and Aegislash stands a decent chance of forcing him out unless Hawlucha runs Encore or is boosted enough to smash through with Acro.

 

[Retro64]

Hawlucha can still function in OU with the right team support. If Talonflame is taken out and there's no Aegislash he can hit most things pretty hard leaving him free to sweep. Aegislash isn't too big of a deal either if you run baton pass. If you're already plus two you can baton pass the boosts onto a counter and OHKO Aegislash or force a switch.
Even though Flying Gem isn't out yet Hawlucha has plenty other options to make use of. As already said Mold Breaker is very useful and if you want to keep Unburden, Red Card is a decent option switching into a weaker resisted move or like already said Lum berry is another good item.

 

[kefkakrazy]

Hawlucha can still function in OU with the right team support. If Talonflame is taken out and there's no Aegislash he can hit most things pretty hard leaving him free to sweep. Aegislash isn't too big of a deal either if you run baton pass. If you're already plus two you can baton pass the boosts onto a counter and OHKO Aegislash or force a switch.
Even though Flying Gem isn't out yet Hawlucha has plenty other options to make use of. As already said Mold Breaker is very useful and if you want to keep Unburden, Red Card is a decent option switching into a weaker resisted move or like already said Lum berry is another good item.

Good point too on Baton Pass; Talonflame is threatening enough to force you to hard switch, but unless you're super low (Unboosted Shadow Sneak caps off at about 40%) you can always BP out of an Aegislash.

Again, of course, if you manage to snag an Aegislash with Encore on SD or King's Shield, you can also do some fun stuff there.

 

[SuperWumbology]

Hawlucha can still function in OU with the right team support. If Talonflame is taken out and there's no Aegislash he can hit most things pretty hard leaving him free to sweep. Aegislash isn't too big of a deal either if you run baton pass. If you're already plus two you can baton pass the boosts onto a counter and OHKO Aegislash or force a switch.
Even though Flying Gem isn't out yet Hawlucha has plenty other options to make use of. As already said Mold Breaker is very useful and if you want to keep Unburden, Red Card is a decent option switching into a weaker resisted move or like already said Lum berry is another good item.

I agree completely with this. Hawlucha can definitely function in OU with some team support, and it's arguably one of the Gen VI 'mons I've had the most success with. It has access to 3 great abilities that it can use, sits in a comfortable Speed tier (Adamant=suck it Garchomp), and has awesome STAB coverage in Fighting+Flying. It can also find a lot more opportunities to switch in, as unlike a lot of Flying types, Hawlucha has a neutrality to Stealth Rock, which is a solid thing to have as a Flying-type sweeper. The main 3 problems I've found that prevent it from seeing more usage is that Flying Gem is illegal, is hard countered by 2 of the most viable/used OU Pokemon (Aegislash and Talonflame), and is somewhat weak before a SD boost. However, I feel that even with all these flaws, Hawlucha is an excellent and underrated late-game sweeper imo.

 

[Celon]

Hawlucha definitely seems to be dominating UU right now from what I've seen, so it most likely will end up going BL. That said, I think Hawlucha's best set for OU would be this.

Hawlucha @ Focus Sash / Lum Berry / Flying Gem (Once it's released)
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Stone Edge

Let's face it, Hawlucha has downright awesome type coverage in its STABs alone, with only the likes of Thundurus and Aegislash resisting it. So, I consider Hawlucha's best coverage move to be Stone Edge, as it hits stuff like Zapdos and Thundurus, who could otherwise ruin its sweep. Flying Gem would easily be the best item if it existed, but it doesn't, so Hawlucha has the option to either take a super-effective hit and set up with Swords Dance, or let a Rotom-W or something come in and convince it to Will-O-Wisp you.

 

[kefkakrazy]

After tinkering with a team containing a Hawlucha in both UU and OU (team is UU viable but has been doing well in OU), I've got one more finding to note:

In addition to Talonflame, Hawlucha has got to watch out for scarfers, especially if it hasn't triggered an unburden boost. The one I'm running is the Mold Breaker set I've been pimping, and I still believe in it to a certain extent, but he's extremely vulnerable to revenge kills by scarf users if he's not careful. SO BE CAREFUL.

 

[popertop]

I've been running the unburden set to tremendous effect in UU, if you get off a SD and unburden boost, you're pretty much unstoppable. Of course I'm interested in more than just UU, as this kind of power level could ransack OU given the proper support. I already know how to counter talonflame, but I have more trouble with aegislash.


What are some good teammates for hawlucha to get those pokes out of the picture?

I was entertaining the idea of trappers, however since aegi is ghost type.... yeah....

 

[skies]

I've been running the unburden set to tremendous effect in UU, if you get off a SD and unburden boost, you're pretty much unstoppable. Of course I'm interested in more than just UU, as this kind of power level could ransack OU given the proper support. I already know how to counter talonflame, but I have more trouble with aegislash.


What are some good teammates for hawlucha to get those pokes out of the picture?

I was entertaining the idea of trappers, however since aegi is ghost type.... yeah....

Bisharp can handle Aegislash, while Mega Aggron is decent enough, as it walls both Talonflame and Aegislash:
4 Atk Mega Aggron Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 334-394 (103 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Aggron Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 438-516 (135.1 - 159.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 136-162 (39.5 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Mega Aggron Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 512-604 (171.8 - 202.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[popertop]

oh wow that's great, I was looking into running those anyways

how do you handle aggrons recovery issue?

maybe rest-talk or wish support?

rest-talk with aromatherapy sounds like it could work

 

[Appa Appa]

I've been running the unburden set to tremendous effect in UU, if you get off a SD and unburden boost, you're pretty much unstoppable. Of course I'm interested in more than just UU, as this kind of power level could ransack OU given the proper support. I already know how to counter talonflame, but I have more trouble with aegislash.


What are some good teammates for hawlucha to get those pokes out of the picture?

I was entertaining the idea of trappers, however since aegi is ghost type.... yeah....

You might want to try Rocky Helmet Mandibuzz as well. Max physical bulk ensures you're taking well under 50% from a brave bird in most cases, and if the LO set hits you, Talonflame's gonna be taking 3 lots of recoil while you sit there, laugh and roost off the damage. Mandi manhandles most Aegislash sets as well and only needs to be somewhat careful of Flash Cannon. Of course, you need more team support to cover the ice weakness shared by both Hawlucha and Mandi but you'll probably want to consider like Heatran anyway for rocks and an extra handy Talonflame counter. This is what I've found most successful in OU anyway. There are other options, sure, I'm just giving an example of Hawlucha's insane viability in OU with the proper team support.

 

[Celon]

As I said before, Hawlucha is most likely going to go BL, because the only thing in UU at the moment that resists Hawlucha's twin STABS is Zapdos. Aside from that, nothing can take a hit from it. It's almost terrorizing UU as bad as Mega Lucario was with OU up until recently. We'll just have to wait and see until the nest suspect test.

Howleeeee crap guys the only set halucha deserves to have is swords dance, encore, hi jump kick and acrobatics. thats a no brainer for sure

Swords Dance, Acrobatics, and High Jump Kick are all extremely obvious moves. Encore has its uses, allowing Hawlucha to set up on stuff easily, but there are so many things that Hawlucha can use as its fourth move that it's astonishing. Baton Pass allows it to become an awesome team supporter, Sky Attack + Power Herb is a very common set, Taunt can really screw up bulky Pokemon. Hell, even Fling + Dread Plate is a viable set for hitting Aegislash!

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Swords Dance, Acrobatics, and High Jump Kick are all extremely obvious moves. Encore has its uses, allowing Hawlucha to set up on stuff easily, but there are so many things that Hawlucha can use as its fourth move that it's astonishing. Baton Pass allows it to become an awesome team supporter, Sky Attack + Power Herb is a very common set, Taunt can really screw up bulky Pokemon. Hell, even Fling + Dread Plate is a viable set for hitting Aegislash!

Yeah I have been thinking about Dread Plate + Fling lately. After Dread Plate boost Fling is a 108BP Dark type attack, which complements with his Fighting/Flying coverage pretty well even though it is used once only.
It is also a surperior option to hit Aegislash with as it gets to 108x2=216BP, whereas Sky Attack only gets to 140x1.5x0.5=105BP

252+ Atk Dread Plate Hawlucha Fling (90 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 354-418 (109.2 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Hawlucha Fling (90 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 286-338 (88.2 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

That's not shabby at all. The problem is if Aegislash King Shields at the turn you Fling, you would have to rely on Acrobatics to damage it again. But luckily Fling doesn't make contact, so that's a huge plus.

252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 135-159 (41.6 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Porce]

Has anyone thought about choice banded Hawlucha set yet? I know most people go unburden, or a set up sweeper of some kind, but with naturally high speed, and moves like U-turn, I think a choice band could really make up for Hawlucha's mediocre attack. That way you can bypass filter (M-Aggron), Solid Rock (Rhyp), Sturdy (most ou pokes with sturdy Hawlucha can't OHKO anyway though), Fur Coat (Furfrou) and probably more by using mold breaker, and cause some serious dents in things right off the bat with HJK.

Sadly, without acrobatics Hawlucha doesn't have a good flying STAB, Aerial Ace barely 2HKOing non-physically defensive Venusaur, failing to OHKO AV Conk and Keldeo, and not really pulling its weight as a secondary STAB.

You'll mostly want to abuse the sheer power of HJK, with stone edge and/or poison jab as coverage while U-Turn hurts psychic types and gains momentum. Hawlucha's really good speed can come in handy but most fast stuff in ou that Hawlucha outspeeds he can't OHKO anyway, being unable to deal with Gengar that packs T-Bolt for example because aerial ace is so ugh weak.

 

[Celon]

Has anyone thought about choice banded Hawlucha set yet? I know most people go unburden, or a set up sweeper of some kind, but with naturally high speed, and moves like U-turn, I think a choice band could really make up for Hawlucha's mediocre attack. That way you can bypass filter (M-Aggron), Solid Rock (Rhyp), Sturdy (most ou pokes with sturdy Hawlucha can't OHKO anyway though), Fur Coat (Furfrou) and probably more by using mold breaker, and cause some serious dents in things right off the bat with HJK.

Sadly, without acrobatics Hawlucha doesn't have a good flying STAB, Aerial Ace barely 2HKOing non-physically defensive Venusaur, failing to OHKO AV Conk and Keldeo, and not really pulling its weight as a secondary STAB.

You'll mostly want to abuse the sheer power of HJK, with stone edge and/or poison jab as coverage while U-Turn hurts psychic types and gains momentum. Hawlucha's really good speed can come in handy but most fast stuff in ou that Hawlucha outspeeds he can't OHKO anyway, being unable to deal with Gengar that packs T-Bolt for example because aerial ace is so ugh weak.

I'm actually incredibly disheartened that Hawlucha doesn't get either Brave Bird or Earthquake, both of which being immediate staples to a Choice Banded Hawlucha set. Stupid Human-like Egg Group.

 

[Porce]

I'm actually incredibly disheartened that Hawlucha doesn't get either Brave Bird or Earthquake, both of which being immediate staples to a Choice Banded Hawlucha set. Stupid Human-like Egg Group.

I hear you. Though earthquake may not be possible, there's always the chance of a brave bird move tutor (there are so many pokemon like Fearow, Aerodactyl, Salamence, and the genies that would adore it). But yeah, theorymoning is theorymoning.

I wonder if flying STAB is worth forgoing on a banded set. Sure flying fighting coverage is superb, and hitting Venusaur is nice, but everything that aerial ace hits for super effective damage and HJK hits for neutral, HJK out-damages. Hawlucha could then find the space to more comfortably run poison jab, 2HKOing Clefable and Azumarill on the switch. Guess it depends on your priorities.

 

[Celon]

I hear you. Though earthquake may not be possible, there's always the chance of a brave bird move tutor (there are so many pokemon like Fearow, Aerodactyl, Salamence, and the genies that would adore it). But yeah, theorymoning is theorymoning.

I wonder if flying STAB is worth forgoing on a banded set. Sure flying fighting coverage is superb, and hitting Venusaur is nice, but everything that aerial ace hits for super effective damage and HJK hits for neutral, HJK out-damages. Hawlucha could then find the space to more comfortably run poison jab, 2HKOing Clefable and Azumarill on the switch. Guess it depends on your priorities.

Considering that freaking Gyarados uses it, would Bounce or Fly be viable options? Sure, they're easy to prey upon, but if Gyarados of all things can succeed with Bounce, why not Hawlucha?

 

[Bombkirby]

oh wow that's great, I was looking into running those anyways

how do you handle aggrons recovery issue?

maybe rest-talk or wish support?

rest-talk with aromatherapy sounds like it could work

Wish support. It's the best way IMO. I'd test it with maybe an alomomola as an HP battery. Regenerator+Wish.

--------------------------------------

The only move I'd grab other than HJK or Acrobatics would be Stone Edge... but its hardly needed since things weak to rock (like Talonflame) get OHKOed by Acrobatics/HJK anyways. It's sorta redundant. If faries were more popular you could go with poison jab. But its still a bit redundant because poison beats grass + fairy and he can already whoop grass into the ground.

To beat Aegislash...Dig is his only option and KS counters that big time.

 

[Porce]

Considering that freaking Gyarados uses it, would Bounce or Fly be viable options? Sure, they're easy to prey upon, but if Gyarados of all things can succeed with Bounce, why not Hawlucha?

Passing it over the calc machine, some things that bounce or fly take out that aerial ace can't are ...

Mega Pinsir:

252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Hawlucha Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 200-236 (73.5 - 86.7%)
252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Hawlucha Bounce vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 300-354 (110.2 - 130.1%)
Hawlucha can survive a single M-Pinsir quick attack, and even if Pinsir uses the free turn to set up a swords dance he's OHKOed anyway. This way you can force M-Pinsir out unless he's got a SD up.

Mega Venusaur:

252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Hawlucha Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 194-230 (53.2 - 63.1%)
252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Hawlucha Fly vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 290-344 (79.6 - 94.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Needs less prior damage to OHKO, but it's unreliable and Hawlucha 2HKOs anyway with aerial ace, surviving a single max invested sludge bomb.

Conkeldurr:

This depends on what EVs are used. I think 252SpD 252+atk 4def is best for AV Conk, but I'm not sure what's standard. If it's 252 HP ...
252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Hawlucha Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 242-288 (58.4 - 69.5%)
252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Hawlucha Fly vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 362-428 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
If it's 4 def 0 HP ....
252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Hawlucha Bounce vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 362-428 (103.1 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If running bounce it's still a OHKO after stealth rocks. Hawlucha wins every match up against Conk unless he misses and can potentially die to a combination of ice punch and mach punch.

Other than that, it ensures the OHKO on Chesnaught but spiky shield messes that up, ensures the OHKO on Gengar but sub messes that up, and against most other stuff that resist HJK like Latias/os, and the Landos, bounce or fly don't help much.

 

[Colonial]

Why are so many of these calcs against Aegislash-Blade? Considering Crumbler Shadow Ball is a guaranteed OHKO against Hawlucha, I'm not sure how you would ever get the chance to use Acrobatics (or anything else) against Blade. Crumbler is Aegislash's most common and most successful set.

EDIT: Looked over arguments again. The posts I'm referring to are old enough that this post is nearly irrelevant.

 

[Frozen Arrow]

Something similar may have already been posted however a lead set that works somewhat well:

Hawlucha @ Focus Sash
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Taunt/Encore
- Swords Dance
- Sky Drop
- High Jump Kick

It has the speed to taunt most leads, which can then be followed up with a sword Dance on the switch-out. I realize this is rather situational but it is an alternate way to run Hawlucha considering how frail it is when it comes to using unburden to its advantage.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Something similar may have already been posted however a lead set that works somewhat well:

Hawlucha @ Focus Sash
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Taunt/Encore
- Swords Dance
- Sky Drop
- High Jump Kick

It has the speed to taunt most leads, which can then be followed up with a sword Dance on the switch-out. I realize this is rather situational but it is an alternate way to run Hawlucha considering how frail it is when it comes to using unburden to its advantage.

Don't use Sky Drop. It was a terrible version of Fly in past generations (and Fly being not really competitively viable, which says a lot), and now X/Y gives Sky Drop a weigh limit.. So nope, don't even consider it