Haxorus

[cosmicexplorer]

If Dragon Tail breaks Skarmory's subs (assuming it used Substitute), then what can make subs that don't break? And anyway, the whole point of Dragon Tail is to scout for counters while dealing damage, not as a sweeping kind of move, so it actually works pretty well on a Choice set.

 

[blasphemy1]

If Dragon Tail breaks Skarmory's subs (assuming it used Substitute), then what can make subs that don't break? And anyway, the whole point of Dragon Tail is to scout for counters while dealing damage, not as a sweeping kind of move, so it actually works pretty well on a Choice set.

Dragon Tail is actually a very nice move on Choice Ononokusu, specifically Choice Band sets. This is because a mix of his lack of other suitable options and the fact that he's so threatening, he'll often force a switch. I like to set up entry hazards and whack away with Dragon Tail, scouting his counters and getting some extra damage in. I've been tempted to run a bulky set, utilizing Dragon Tail + Taunt with Leftovers, but Dragonite just seems to do it better. Taunt doesn't really provide anything because Dragonite has Fire Blast for Skarmory, Nattorei, and Forretress. It also has Roost, greater bulk, and Multi-Scale. That's one thing I would like to stress, despite its lack of a 4x weakness, do not try to play to its weakness: its lack of bulk. Other dragons, Kingdra, Dragonite, Garchomp, even Salamence, do that better. He's less bulky on the special side than Infernape... and don't even bring up that set with Will-o-Wisp + Calm Mind + Slack Off I saw. There's no reason a simple Choice Band set with Dragon Tail / Earthquake / Outrage / Brick Break can't work for this guy.

 

[BurningMan]

if it really breaks through a skarmory substitute then i am totally wrong, sorry i didnt made calcs but i wasn't assuming that it deals that much damage.
Well thats pretty impressive and i have to confess that it certainly has more use than i first thought.

@LegacyRaider yeah i know what i said is wrong sorry, i just got a little mad because everyone acted like i was saying it should use Splash.

 

[some hero]

I can't believ i will say this..But this guy sucks.I tried him in my team to compare to a Swords Dance Garchomp..And nope, Garchomp wins it.There really is no comparison.Everything about Garchomp is better, hell i'd rather have 130 as long as i keep the best typing and one of the best abilities.Sand Veil, right now, is better than Mold Breaker and anything this guy has simply because of Sands' popularity and the fact that Sand Veil will win you the game..Man i gotta love my Sand Veil.

 

[Omega Zero]

Well, does Garchomp make a better Choice Bander?

 

[SJCrew]

After having faced this guy several times, I'll admit that one thing we forgot to take into account was that even if you switch a Steel type into him, you have to make sure it actually threatens him somehow, lest you get 2HKOed by Outrage or give him more free Dances. D:

Fellow Dragons and Ditto are his only real nemeses, as far as I can see. I'm going to see if I can get away with running Dragon Claw over Taunt to catch stuff like Garchomp on the switch.

 

[cosmicexplorer]

@some hero: Can SDChomp always OHKO Hippowdon with Outrage? Can SDChomp 2HKO Skarmory when locked into Outrage? Can SDChomp OHKO Bronzong with Earthquake? Ono wrecks stall, while Chomp is better against offense. Don't try to make one do the other's job.

EDIT@Omega Zero: Ono actually hits a lot harder than Chomp, because Chomp uses a Jolly nature for its CB set, while Ono uses an Adamant nature. While a Jolly nature certainly isn't necessary, Chomp loses out on that excellent speed tier it's in, which is one of its key benefits over Ono. However, as Nubbins noted, Chomp's resistance and bulk means it can take a lot more hits than Ono.

 

[Nubbins]

@ Omega Zero

Arguably. Garchomp has an immunity and better resistances, as well as an better speed and way more bulk. Stone edge is also a plus for garchomp.

 

[some hero]

@some hero: Can SDChomp always OHKO Hippowdon with Outrage? Can SDChomp 2HKO Skarmory when locked into Outrage? Can SDChomp OHKO Bronzong with Earthquake? Ono wrecks stall, while Chomp is better against offense. Don't try to make one do the other's job.

I never said Ono was worse at everything..Just when i tried both.Garchomp needs way less hand holding than Ono does because of it's overall better typing and stats.Sweeping wise Garchomp is better..And if he gets a +1 speed from Blaziken it pretty much is over..If Sand is active than it's gg..Garchomp just needs less effort to sweep even if Ono has higher attack..Does it make sense?

 

[JSND]

I never said Ono was worse at everything..Just when i tried both.Garchomp needs way less hand holding than Ono does because of it's overall better typing and stats.Sweeping wise Garchomp is better..And if he gets a +1 speed from Blaziken it pretty much is over..If Sand is active than it's gg..Garchomp just needs less effort to sweep even if Ono has higher attack..Does it make sense?

well cant argue. +2 speed chom is arguably near unstopable much like + 3 groudon

 

[Monozu]

I've been using this guy in the Battle subway, and there's something missing about using this guy compared to when I use Garchomp, not quite sure what it is though.Might be that trolled speed or the lack of STAB EQ+Stone Edge (I'm thinking the latter).Its by no means a bad Pokemon, but it feels inferior to Garchomp, apart from being a slower and harder hitting Choice Bander.

 

[Ulevo]

While I myself haven't used Ononokusu yet, I feel players may be attempting to use Ononokusu much in the way you would utilize Salamence or another dragon on the team, and are having poor results because of this.

Against a 252/252 Impish Skarmory, Ononokusu deals 44.9% to 53% damage with Adamant + 252 ATK + Rivalry + Choice Band. That's almost a guaranteed 2HKO, and is a guaranteed 2HKO with Stealth Rock up.

This is thwarted if Skarmory is holding Leftovers, however the moment you deal damage to Skarmory and determine if it is holding anything other than Shed Shell, it becomes a victim for Shandera (DW) or Magnezone, which make excellent partners.

Considering how much damage that is, I feel this is the most effective way to use Ononokusu. It gives him power immediately without the need for elaborate set up strategies. It is fast enough to catch the threats it needs to, and punches holes in teams even when resisted.

One way you could look at it is Ononokusu is akin to Choice Band Tyranitar, with better coverage but lacking the ability to trap Ghost and Psychic types.

 

[Homeslice]

...Mold Breaker lets him kill levitaters with earthquake. He doesn't fear all those levitating steels anymore.

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

This is truly amazing. A pure Dragon-type with really huge attack stat.

 

[Ulevo]

...Mold Breaker lets him kill levitaters with earthquake. He doesn't fear all those levitating steels anymore.

If you give him Mold Breaker, he loses that +1, and becomes an inferior version of Choice Band Garchomp. Not to mention that the only notable Levitate Steel type is Bronzong; Skarmory won't be effected by Rivalry because it's a Flying type, and that goes double for any Steel types that use Balloon. I don't understand why you would carry Mold Breaker exclusively for a Pokemon that doesn't even see a lot of play.

It also won't matter if he has Mold Breaker with Rivalry either since the +1 negates the 2 x resistance to Dragon type attacks anyway.

 

[SJCrew]

Rivalry isn't a 50% boost, it's a 25% boost. Once again, the main difference between Ono and Garchomp, is the power boost and not being 4x weak to Ice. Garchomp can be revenged by bulky Water types, Ono can't, and both are revenged by other Dragons. Adamant Ono can 2HKO a maxed Hippow guaranteed, but a Jolly Garchomp can't. Even a Rivalry boosted Jolly CB Ono is well into a 2HKO.

And having a stronger Outrage is really useful for 2HKOing Steels who might switch in on you (not to mention they can't just run an Ice move and be like LOL REVENGE).

I like Rivalry a little better than Mold Breaker, actually, because at +2, you can 2HKO Steels with Outrage. Jirachi and Brozong (yes, I know they're genderless, I turned it off in the calc) will do lol damage before they die and Scizor will take a chunk with Bullet Punch and get KOed immediately by Outrage.

This is, of course, assuming they come in on Outrage. They're fucked if they come in on SD.

I'm liking this SD set of his more and more actually. Bonafide cutthroat wallbreaker. :D

 

[BurningMan]

If you give him Mold Breaker, he loses that +1, and becomes an inferior version of Choice Band Garchomp. Not to mention that the only notable Levitate Steel type is Bronzong; Skarmory won't be effected by Rivalry because it's a Flying type, and that goes double for any Steel types that use Balloon. I don't understand why you would carry Mold Breaker exclusively for a Pokemon that doesn't even see a lot of play.

It also won't matter if he has Mold Breaker with Rivalry either since the +1 negates the 2 x resistance to Dragon type attacks anyway.

Rivalry isn't a +1 boost its a 1.2 attack multiplier, but if it was only that it wouldn't be bad the problem starts when your against pokemon of the opposite gender where you lose attacking power since the multiplier reverses (so instead getting multiplied with 1.2 it gets multiplied with 0.8 ) and since most players set their Pokemon to a random gender its by no means a reliable boost, but can actually fire back at you.

Mold Breakers advantages aren't that big as the biggest deal is propably Bronzong and hitting random levitators with EQ (like the rotom formes) wich isn't bad as Ono is mainly a choice band pokemon so you don't have to switch out against these pokemon.

So IMO Mold Breaker is often the more reliable Ability as opposed to Rivalry wich can give you a huge boost, but can also cut your damage down wich can cost you important KOs and at worst even the match.

 

[Ulevo]

Mold Breakers advantages aren't that big as the biggest deal is propably Bronzong and hitting random levitators with EQ (like the rotom formes) wich isn't bad as Ono is mainly a choice band pokemon so you don't have to switch out against these pokemon.

So IMO Mold Breaker is often the more reliable Ability as opposed to Rivalry wich can give you a huge boost, but can also cut your damage down wich can cost you important KOs and at worst even the match.

I stand corrected on the Rivalry boost. However.

Why would you want to hit other levitators like Rotom-H when Outrage will likely OHKO them anyway?

Levitators worth noting include Gengar, Weezing, Flygon, Claydol, Latios, Latias, Mismagius, Bronzong, Rotom-H & company, Mesprit, Uxie, Azelf, Cresselia, and Sanzadora.

There isn't a single Pokemon there other than Bronzong that resists Outrage but is weak to Earthquake. Most of these are OHKO'd by Outrage to begin with. Weezing might be able to survive a single hit, but that aside it isn't doing much, and it'll be 2HKO'd for sure.

Again, I'm not seeing the merit for Mold Breaker as far as Levitator is concerned.

Also, most people usually keep their Pokemon consistently male unless they're using female exclusive Pokemon. The most notables ones happen to be Latias and Blissey, who won't be able to handle hits from Outrage even with a .8 multiplier added.

 

[BurningMan]

well sometimes its better not to lock your self into outrage since this gets you easily revenged by a lot of stuff.

However i wouldn't choose Mold Breaker only because of its positive effects, but rather because of rivalary being a double edged sword, it only boosts your attacks when the pokemon is the same gender as yours but if it is from the opposite gender the power of your attacks get decreased by 25% and this makes it pretty much gambling to actually get the boost.

If it would be a 10% boost every time you attack a pokemon of your gender without any drawbacks it would be the superior ability, but the negative effect is too big to be more than a gimmick that can pay off sometimes, but hurts you just as often.

And no serious player keeps all their pokemon male, most give them random genders too not get fucked up by the occasional Attract gimmick team and if you have a bad day maybe all you opponents team is female.
You can't hope to just battle bad players that are unaware of this circuumstances it can work on the ladder sometimes (i sometimes forget to shuffle genders too when testing a Team), but once your on the upper areas of the ladder you will only the random gender teams and noone would go into a tournament with a team not prepared for things like this.

 

[Ulevo]

I'm confident that it is a rather reasonable oversight, however one that might not be overlooked any more should something like Rivalry Ononokusu see any play. Tactics like Attract are gimmicks, and while it usually doesn't take much effort to ensure they don't surprise you, it's usually ignored because you won't see Attract in serious play almost ever.

It's like how Whirlwind is superior to Roar because of Soundproof, but no one cares because no one uses Sound Proof Pokemon.

 

[Nubbins]

While that's true, it only takes a minute on team builder for your team to be essentially attract proof. The same thing applies to rivalry. Good players will do anything to gain an advantage and if that means changing all genders to female or random, then they will do it. I personally put the 4 extra EVs on my sweepers into special defense just to piss off download users.

 

[bubbly]

I personally always stick mixed genders on my pokemon. If there are Rivalry CB Ononokusu running around no one is going to stick with default gender only. Which means, Rivalry is probably better right now, but not for that long.

 

[Pentao]

I think actual calculations should be done to show if Rivalry is actually worth anything ever or if that attack buff is just kind of there. Unless they have been done so already.

 

[SolCalibre]

I've gathered that on random battles, people use DD but on wi-fi singles. They tend to just use scarf as it's better. Although i'd still prefer the DD Ononokusu. The thing that keeps it from "Uber" (fanboys) Is the lack of a fire move so a good physical wall can wall it. Still waiting to see a banded one smack me in the face.

And as for it's ability, I'd prefer mold breaker so that levitators think that they could dodge can EQ, can't. Rivalry is too risky (Unless every player like to use a team full of males *Shudders*)

 

[CrossHair-a]

I can see this guy working quite well in Ubers, no doubt.

Heck, Ononokusu, Salamence, and Rayquaza are basically all the same 3 pokemon. Just imagine the damage after Rayquaza cripples the Groudon, Salamence goes down after denting the steel switch-in, and Ononokusu coming on for the sweep. Well, it's in no necessary order, actually. It's like a loophole in the Species Clause. Seriously, just picture the movesets you could use on them. DDRay + MixMence + CBkusu? MixQuaza + DDMence + DDKusu? Three DDers? Maybe even forget Rayquaza. Salamence and Ononokusu could be the new RayMence partners, and Kusu won't get hindered so badly by Stealth Rock. Double DD? MixMence + DDKusu? My God...the havoc that could be wreaked...

I'm really interested in this guy in Ubers rather than OU. Yea, we know, beast of a physical attacker, we've all heard it; look further than that and just imagine what he could do up there...