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DPP OU Heavenly Star - An OU RMT (Peaked #3)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by reyscarface, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. reyscarface

    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Dec 9, 2008
    ~Heavenly Stars Above~

    Introduction: Hello team raters! New RMT after a very long time of not posting one here. A lot of teams recently have been all "hey i got this thing and it will sweep with this other shit support" but meh i cant be arsed to make one of those, specially when other guys already used the cool ideas! So instead of that, I decided to build a completely standard team, cover threats while being able to sweep is this team's "purpose" (notice how this is every team's purpose, lol so standard). Theres 1 pokemon that caught my eye some time ago, and I really fucking wanted to use it so much... after like 4 attempts at teams using it, I think I finally made one of the best teams I have ever built. Easily, this team covers pretty much every single threat on the metagame, it will be very hardly swept by something when used correctly (although combos of 3 or 4 pokes can be very hard to deal with but that happens with every team since this is DPP!). Aaaanyways, this team has proved very succesful this days, aquiring a leaderboard place of #6 (#3 without counting the glitched accounts) and defeating a lot of good players in the way. Although im pretty sure this team has reached its "rot" point, where it cant be improved a lot more, im open to every single suggestion you give me, and ill try it out seriously (except shit like i dont know Victreebel or Arbok). In case you havent noticed, this team is purely offensive, while the backbone being literally bulky things that can take hits for each teammate. I play very offensively with this team, since im a true believer of high risk high reward!
    Main "issue" for this team is without doubt stall teams. The main thing that hurts me against Stall is Spikes, those layers are the most annoying shit ever. However, theres one thing in the team that can change a lost battle in a win situation for me, which is a perfectly timed Explosion on my opponent's Blissey. If that happens, a win chance is really big.
    Without anything else to add, I introduce you, Smogon user, to my newest team, Heavenly Star!

    Heres a Type Chart for the people that want to "analyze" the team:​





    Metagross @ Lum Berry *** MetaReverbChickens
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 200 HP/232 Atk/32 Spd/44 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Meteor Mash
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake

    First player to come is the mighty MetaReverbChickens. Leading position is crucial in this metagame where every team tries to get the advantage since the start of the match, either being anti leadng their opponents, getting SR up while surviving most assaults, or suicide leading to get momentum. In my opinion, this lead is the best one in this metagame. DPP is really fucking full of Smeargles and Roserades everywhere (thanks Vashta, Jabba and KG/August u_u), which means your team should not let them set-up. This is what Metagross does, completely stops any set-up from those kind of pokemons (specially smeargle since this team hates spikes), takes on every single lead comfortably, barring the rare Heatran and the occasional Infernape, and can get SR up as well. SR is tremendously important for the team, since it causes a lot of switches more often than not, which is why I was so skeptical about having a SR lead.

    These moves were picked for 1 single reason: fucking sensuality. I really dislike Explosion, since giving a free double switch may put me at such a big disadvantage, that I may lose just for that stupidity. Earthquake lets me totally handle other Metagross leads, as well as other Steel types, and is picked for straight coverage. Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch is for Azelf, Aerodactyl, and any other suicide lead that hopes beating MetaNite & Reverb. The EVs seem weird at a glance (lol they are!) but its really just to never be OHKOd my Timid's Azelf Fire Blast, while having tremendous firing power, excellent defensive capabilities, and decent speed. So many speed was invested so I can beat most Metagross leads, which is crucial in the way I play this lead, since it lets me win momentum so damn easily that it is like total magic.

    Usually Metagross is not sacked. I save it because later in the game it may become really useful, would it be to take a Draco Meteor, revenge some dangerous sweeper with Bullet Punch, or hurting things like Scizors, who knows, but Metagross is not only useful at the beginning of the battle, but its a true contender at any phase of it.

    This is what I do vs the top 15 leads in the OU metagame:

    [​IMG] Azelf: Instant Meteor Mash. they are in a tight spot, they can hurt my Metagross with Fire Blast to render it useless, but get left without SR, which is really good for my team. If they use SR, well nothing I can do about it, but Metagross is left at 100%, with its Lum Berry still there, the ability to get SR up, and can hit everything that threatens it without KOing, like Magnezone or shit.

    [​IMG] Metagross: Earthquake ALWAYS turn 1. After that they ALWAYS switch since they see im faster, which means Rotom, Salamence, Gliscor or some other shit will come in, letting me get SR on the switch turn. If its Rotom then excellent, I stay in 1 turn to scout a bit the item and shit, if it has lefties and is WoWing me, Heatran comes in and has a happy day with boosted Flamethrowers. If it is scarfed, Gliscor says hi. This is a 100% use plan I use every time I play, and its very damn useful.

    [​IMG] Jirachi: SR up always, they want to trick me a Scarf? Fine ill have a new revenge killer, thanks for everything brah. They got SR up? Fine as well, ill hit something on their switch with Meteor Mash.

    [​IMG] Aerodactyl: Bullet Punch turn 1. If they Taunt me, another BP finishes them. If they used SR, the way to go is to get SR up after while taking an EQ to then kill with BP.

    [​IMG] Swampert: Fuck off stupid mudfish. One of the few leads that beat me. SR turn 1, stay in and use EQ to scout a bit, then switch something else like Gliscor, attracting an Ice Beam and letting Heatran come in and KO with HP Grass.

    [​IMG] Infernape: Another shit. Always bring Latias turn 1, taking fake out or fire blast, using Surf and then finishing it.

    [​IMG] Ninjask: Gliscor always to then Taunt and use Stone Edge to break the subs.

    [​IMG] Roserade: Lum saves me vs this bitch. EQ turn 1 after receiving Sleep Powder and then KO with BP.

    [​IMG] Smeargle: Same as above!

    [​IMG] Hippowdon: Faggotppowdon. SR turn 1, bring Gliscor on the EQ, Taunt it to make it useless, and bring Metagross since they are obviously switching out.

    [​IMG] Bronzong: SR turn 1 as they do the same, then spam Meteor Mash til im asleep by Hypnosis. If it is using EQ, Scizor can come in and do 50%~ with UTurn

    [​IMG] Tyranitar: SR turn 1 since they are always switching out. If they stay then MM.

    [​IMG] Heatran: Switch to Suicune as they Fire Blast, then get a CM up as they SR. OHKO with Surf and do a mini sweep.

    [​IMG] Crobat: MM turn 1 always, since most use Taunt.

    [​IMG] Forretress: Insta switch to Heatran since SR will just get spinned anyways.

    Suicune @ Leftovers *** JUUUUUUUUUUUUUN <3 & The Italian ghostly mod ¬_¬
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 160 HP/228 Spe/120 SpA
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    This was the pokemon that inspired the team. I was like "holy shat i need a team with 3 attack CM Suicune NOW!" and so I kept trying to make one. Finally got it done!! Anyways, Suicune, the most solid beast comes here to my team doing a very important job. It becomes fucking hard to take down after a Calm Mind. It becomes fucking strong and can sweep you after a Calm Mind. Its hot and fucking sexy even before a Calm Mind.
    Suicune adds a Fire resistance to the team, considering how 2 of my main pokes are weak to it. Its also an excellent counter to Heatran, specially non-scarfed ones. It counters DD Gyara, some Metagross, Scizor, and more with ease. It Calm Minds on a fuckload of things including Bullet Punches, Vaporeons, Perts, Gliscors, Fire Types, Ice Types and company.
    Even with its not-so-amazing special attack, Suicune can rip holes through teams, usually making a sweep by itself, or letting a teammate finish the job. Its seriously incredible how many teams are weak to this thing because every single time a suicune appears it 'must' be a Crocune or a Rest Sleep Talk variant with another move. Surprise factor and overall bulkyness and sweeping prowess is what makes this set worth its weight in gold. When this broski doesnt manage a complete sweep its either because of Blissey, getting Tricked by something like Latias (Latias dies of course), or its at 30%~ and something like Gengar comes in to OHKO me.

    The set is pretty easy to understand. Surf is STAB, and after a Calm Mind it does big, BIG numbers to everything that does not resist it, barring something like Blissey or max/max Cresselia. Offensive teams are eaten by this beast's Surfs. The mighty Scizor takes around 70% from a +1 Surf, and can only do around 50% back to my Suicune with Choice Band max U-Turn. Thats how bulky and strong this thing is. Ice Beam is purely coverage move. Denting things like Celebi that want to wall my "Crocune" and then get 2HKOd by +1 Ice Beam. It also hits Salamence and the other dragonic friends. HP Electric is in my last slot because its what makes this set extremely beast. When you see a Suicune rampaging, most people go ahead and throw out a Vaporeon, Gyarados, or any other Bulky Water that can resist the combo of Ice + Water. This is where HP Electric shines. OHKOing Gyarados when at +1, taking advantage of the inability of those other waters to touch me at all (besides the rare toxic) and seting up more Calm Minds to finally sweep. Calm Mind is the "duh" move in this set that makes it as strong as a fucking truck.
    Enough speed to beat maxed Mamoswine, and it can also oftenly outrun a lot of Mixmences, which is excellent. It also beats Heatrans, which means if I get a scarf tricked, not everything is lost and can prove useful late game.

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band *** Friareo Ut Badass
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 160 HP/176 Atk/24 Spe/148 SpDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Im somewhat original with my teams but hey this little bitch is a must on most teams with revenge killing issues. Scizor is my main answer to shit like DD Mence (when it gets at 60%~), Gengar, Kingdras, Tyranitars, Latias, and shit, you get the point. Thanks to his bazillion resistances and his decent defenses, it can switch in on a fuckload of things, like Scarf Latias, and pursuit her to dead, opening an easier path for Cuney Cune. Scizor, as my second Dragon attack absorber, also carries a pesky Fire Weakness, which is why there are a fuckload of fire resistances in the team (hint: 3), but its totally worth it. Besides countering all those shit i listed, and offering me a good revenge killer, it can also do something that my team adores. Scouting with U-Turn. This lets me see if my opponent has Heatran, Skarmory or some other shit, which lets me plan what im going to do nextly in the match, specially since most things that switch in on Scizor are set-up fodder for Suicune.

    The set is the standard one, with BP to 2HKO every offensive mon that does not resist it. U-Turn is the scouting move that is always spammed when I play, so I can start seeing what my opponent has to show. Pursuit lets both Suicune and Heatran sweep easier, thanks to the ability of shoting Gengar, Latias, Starmie and most shit that is weak to it. Superpower is all coverage move, to OHKO things like locked Heatran or a Scizor, but i see myself spamming U-turn even in those situations. EVs are just to take hits from both sides nicely, while having max attack.

    Heatran (M) @ Life Orb *** Giant Enemy TAB
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Explosion
    - Earth Power
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Ohohohohoho its Heatraaaan! This thing is what makes me not weak to another Heatrans spamming Fire Blast during the match. Heatran can be considered the complete glue of the team, since it does so much for it that is too hard to write everything here. First of all it attracts Vaporeons like nobody, which means Suicune's time to set-up has begun. It also can 1 shot Swampert, who otherwise becomes a total pain in the ass for the team. Another steel type here means that Dragon attacks arent going to completely own me, while the Fire type gets me excellent resistances. First of all, what does this do? Well it switches in on Celebi, Scizor and company like no-one, threatens them to OHKO with Flamethrower and also works as a pivot, since a lot of Heatrans carry sub, it may spell dead if they switch out. Another selling point is the lack of Leftovers. This is excellent since I often can bluff a scarf, and make the whole match come into my way until I attack. Example: When Celebi switches out to Heatran to absorb a Flamethrower, and it doesnt see anything, it can oftenly be confused as a Scarf Heatran. My opponent, knowing I have a scarf, uses Fire Blast to hit my switchin instead of using Earth Power to sodomize my Volcanic beast. This means I stay, get a Flash Fire boost, OHKO the opponent's Heatran AND be at a high amount of HP. This happens a lot of times so believe me im not making this up. Heatran also becomes the one of 2 things in my team that can stand a bulky SD Scizor assault, which is tremendously helpful.

    The moves and EVs are pretty straightforward. Max spa and speed for offensive strongth, Naive nature is picked so Explosion can OHKO max/max Blissey even without SR up, which means Suicune and Latias may have a god damn party. Flamethrower > Fire Blast because... yeah... i find Fire Blast missing more than Jirachi getting 15 flinches, so id rather have the reliability, although having Fire Blast would be excellent to 1 shot Salamence after SR and with a Flash Fire boost, but whatever it may miss and Mence is left with all its HP! Earth Power is a coverage move, you all know what it hits I assume so ill skip it, and HP Grass OHKOs Swampert, which is something extremely needed on this team. It also can 2HKO a Suicune after SR and leave more paths open for a sweep. Explosion is for Blissey and my general oh-shit button to 1 shot most of the metagame.

    Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers *** HuntoftheBloo
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 240 HP/16 Atk/32 Def/220 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Roost
    - Taunt
    - Stone Edge

    After having 4 dudeys in my team, the Lucario problem was unbelievable. Only Suicune could stand against Adamant ones, because of outspeeding and the ability of 2HKOing if the Lucario went smart and tried to SD. So this spot was basically much a must. Gliscor makes a nice stall-breaker thanks to Taunt, which is nice in case something goes wrong, like Blissey evading my Explosion with Protect or a switch to Rotom. Gliscor gives me an excellent check for Lucario, Scizor, Tyranitar and all those little physical (BAN ME PLEASE) that cant hit me super effectively. Excellent team player here because it absorbs Fighting, Ground and Bug attacks like no-one, and has a really nice synergy with Suicune, since it attracts all kinds of bulky waters that will let me get some free calm minds. Gliscor also lures in Celebi, getting a Taunt on it, and allowing Heatran to switch in without the risks of Thunder Wave/Leech Seed. Gliscor, while beaing the things that stops 3 common threats from sweeping me, is also somewhat of a weak link. Why? Well even with StoneQuake combo, it becomes set-up fodder for a lot of Pokemons. Taunt fixes this somewhat, and having Latias on the guard also lets me survive most set-up sweepers assaults, but I dislike how much Gliscor has to switch or get OHKOd by Ice or Water thingies. Of course, all of my team helps Gliscor in these strange cases, and Gliscor's bulkyness, defensive capabilities and amazing typing make up totally for those little facts i said about it.

    The moveset is the standard wall breaker, that lets me beat stall more often than not. Combinated with Latias to stop Gyarados and trick Blissey, Gliscor is delightfully strong. Taunt is a must on the set as explained above, while Earthquake, being the best attacking move coupled with STAB, makes a must on this set as well. Roost gives me a lot of survability, completely letting me take a hit, roost, and come back later for a next round. Stone Edge is the last move here mainly because it can hit fliers like Salamence, Togekiss and most importantly, Skarmory. With Taunt, and most Skarms carrying Shed Shell, Gliscor can eventually come out on top. Although Stone Edge has worked decently with the time, I think im going to replace it with U-Turn, since a lot of people have told me that and im too lazy to try it out lol. A second U-Turner could be really good for me, so if enough people think i should make the change, ill totally try it out. The EVs arent weird at all. Speed lets me beat even Jolly Lucario, and I gave it a little bit more for speed tie issues that can become quite the pain, like vs Calm Mind Jirachi. HP is nearly maxed for good defenses, while the rest of the EVs are splitted to have 4 Attack points and some more Defense.

    Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf *** JioMacle11
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Thunderbolt
    - Surf
    - Trick

    This thing is the complete backbone of the team. Thanks to it blinding speed, coupled with the scarf, you got a freakingly fast poke that hits hard enough and has excellent coverage with 3 moves. Latias is my answer to shit like DD Mence, DD Kingdra, DD Gyarados, and a fantastic revenge killer of sorts. Only drawback of this spot is how easily it is pursuited, usually leaving me in a tight spot, but the ability to take on most foes, while totally helping Gliscor with shit that bothers it, the move Trick to make stall easier to beat, AND important resistances, like a third Fire one, make Latias an excellent member of this team. Main Infernape, Heatran and company counter is worth to note here as well. As said before, this shit gets Pursuited more than Miley Cyrus by horny teenagers, because holy fuck more often than not Latias will kill 1 poke, I get happy, and then a shit ass Scizor/Ttar comes in my ass and spoils my fun. Even when I would love to not be such Pursuit bait, Latias does so much that its almost impossible to change.

    Draco Meteor is pimp STAB that hits nearly everything and threatens a fuckload of shit, Thunderbolt hits Gyarados and water bitches, while Surf hits Heatran and Fire types. Trick is an excellent move because not only it gives me a great chance to beat Stall, but it also makes me not weak to shit like CM Suicune and Cursers. 252 Speed and Attack are pretty "duh" so I hope you understand their point!


    Well guys, thanks a lot for reading, hope you liked the team. Feel free to steal, change, edit, nitpick, everything.
    Aki Kino likes this.
  2. reyscarface

    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Dec 9, 2008
    Defensive Threats:

    [​IMG] Blissey - Usually my first switchin for this thing is Scizor, considering immunity to Toxic, doesnt care too much about Thunder Wave, and can take a Seismic Toss without too much problems, although I have to be cautious for Flamethrower. Heatran usually Explodes on it with ease, which is almost always. Latias can also Trick it, to make it set-up fodder later on. Without Ice Beam Gliscor can Taunt it and beat it 1 on 1, while Metagross does an excellent job against it.

    [​IMG] Bronzong - Heatran OHKOs with Flamethrower. Since most are leads, Metagross usally ends up doing 70%~ to them, so they arent really a big issue. Scizor's U-Turn does 50%~, and without Explosion they are set-up fodder for Suicune.

    [​IMG] Celebi - Gliscor can taunt it easily, letting every single pokemon I have, barring Suicune, beat it one 1 one. Scizor OHKOs, Heatran OHKOs, Latias can Trick it.

    [​IMG] Cresselia - Scizor's U-Turn does a fuckload. Set-up fodder for Suicune, specially Charge Beamers. Heatran can leave it at 60%~ with Flamethrower and then Explode for the KO.

    [​IMG] Donphan - Suicune and Heatran. Both can OHKO this thing, not even mentioning Latias.

    [​IMG] Dusknoir - Suicune set-up fodder yay.

    [​IMG] Forretress - Without Explosion its set-up fodder for Suicune, which is excellent. Heatran can OHKO it easily as well.

    [​IMG] Gliscor - Suicune OHKOs, Latias OHKOs. Can be quite a pest if both of those are down, but a combo of Taunt from my own + Scizor's BP can end it.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Defensive Gyara is OHKOd by Thunderbolt of Latias, and also Suicune beats it thanks to HP Electric. Flamethrower does around 30% so SR + HP Electric + Flamethrower ends this thing.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon - Suicune fucks it over while Gliscor's Taunt does the same.

    [​IMG] Jirachi - Heatran deals with this thing easily. Defensive Rachi perishes to Gliscor as well.

    [​IMG] Rotom-A - Most come in on Metagross, which is excellent because Heatran gets a Flash Fire boost for WoW and then OHKOs it. Cune can get 2 Calm Minds on it to get a quick OHKO after some residual damage.

    [​IMG] Skarmory - Spikes are annoying, but Heatran OHKOs. So does Latias, and Gliscor Taunting means it wont have a nice day.

    [​IMG] Snorlax - Scizor's Superpower does insane amounts of damage, while Gliscor easily taunts it to stop from seting up. If needed Latias can trick its scarf on it.

    [​IMG] Suicune - Defensive Cune is very tricky, but my own Suicune can do a lot of damage with +1 HP Electric, then my Scizor can finish it with U-Turn, or Heatran with HP Grass/Explosion. Latias does a fuckload with Thunderbolt as well.

    [​IMG] Swampert - Lead pert is annoying, yeah. OHKOd by HP Grass though, and since most dont expect it they stay in.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel - Heatran can 2HKO with Earth Power, Latias hurts it big time with T-bolt, Gliscor can do around 70% with EQ, aaaaand set-up fodder for Suicune yay!

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - Defensive T-tar is easy CMs for Cune, meaning it loses. Scizor and Metagross completely dominate it, and Gliscor can take anything while 2HKOing with EQ.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon - Hi Suicune.

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Not so easy. Usually getting a free Flash Fire boost just to get OHKOd by Flamethrower, but if it t-bolts the situation may get tricky. If Suicune manages to get a CM on the switch, I win.

    Offensive Threats:

    [​IMG] Azelf - Lead ones are decimated. NP ones are OHKOd by Latias, and after SR by Scizor's BP. Usually cant do anything to my Heatran anyways.

    [​IMG] Breloom - Gliscor totally walls it. If Gross has the Lum Berry when it comes in to Sleep me, MM + BP finish it. Heatran OHKOs. Scizor does around 90%, Latias Draco Meteor OHKOs, Suicune's Ice Beam OHKOs too.

    [​IMG] Dragonite - Suicune outspeeds and OHKOs with Ice Beam. Taunted by Gliscor so they cant get a DD, and in the case they get one, I still have Draco Meteor from Latias and Scizor's BP.

    [​IMG] Dugtrio - lol

    [​IMG] Electivire - Gliscor outspeeds and destroys it. Latias does a fuckload with Draco Meteor. If it gets a speed boost it can get tricky, but Metagross is usually fine and can take an EQ to then OHKO with its own EQ.

    [​IMG] Gallade - Scizor, Gliscor, Metagross. All beat it.

    [​IMG] Gengar - Gengar can get tricky. This thing is one of the reasons I have Stone Edge on Gliscor. It usually switches on it and tries to sub up. If they get sub then Scizor will get OHKOd by HP Fire. Stone Edge means they cant get a sub, which is excellent. If it gets a sub though, im in problems, though they cannot get one in any poke besides Gliscor.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Latias completely shuts DD Gyara down. Suicune can take a +1 Stone Edge and OHKO with HP.

    [​IMG] Heatran - Latias stops every Heatran variant, and Suicune can even set-up on it!

    [​IMG] Heracross - Gliscor strongth.

    [​IMG] Infernape - Latititititias. Suicune can take a Grass Knot and OHKO with Surf.

    [​IMG] Jolteon - Latias does a fuckload. Scizor revenges weakened ones. Specs ones wont get past Gliscor easily to be honest, since spamming T-bolt isnt viable.

    [​IMG] Latias - My main switch is Metagross, since it can handle it better than Scizor. After scouting a bit, Scizor will come in and Pursuit it.

    [​IMG] Kingdra - Scizor can revenge with BP doing 35%. Metagross can take everything including +1 Hydro Pump and start spamming EQ to weaken it.

    [​IMG] Lucario - Gliscor :D

    [​IMG] Machamp - Gliscor shuts all of the Machamps (ice punch lol?). Everything on my team does a lot to Machamp, and since Metagross has a Lum Berry, it can score 2 MMs on it.

    [​IMG] Magnezone - Traping Scizor is usually bad, but besides that it cant do a lot. Heatran OHKOs, set-up fodder for Cune (scarfed ones), Metagross can survive anything if it has 70%~ and OHKO with EQ, Gliscor beats every Magnezone except the ones with HP Ice. Cant touch Latias at all.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine - Tricky. Sometimes hard to deal with. Good switching make it easy for me, since getting Scizor in, or even Suicune, mean its over for the beast.

    [​IMG] Metagross - For lead ones read my Gross description. Agility ones wont get past Gliscor, and any other variant gets shut by Tran.

    [​IMG] Porygon-Z - Hits very fucking hard, but Scizor destroys it, and Latias revenges it.

    [​IMG] Salamence - Bullet Punch is my best bet. Second resort is Latias Draco Meteor. Third one would be Suicune. Usually have to switch a lot to beat it, if anything the sacked Pokemon usually is Metagross.

    [​IMG] Scizor - Heatran takes everything besides Superpower, while Gliscor takes everything besides BP. If its locked in BP Suicune sets up, or Heatran comes in. When it kills Latias with Pursuit I cry though.

    [​IMG] Starmie - Scizor and Latias beat this thing always.

    [​IMG] Togekiss - Bastard. This bitch can flinch me a lot, but Scizor's BP + SR decimate them. Heatran can take even an Aura Sphere and 2HKO, while Latias' T-bolt hurt it.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - Scizor and Gliscor. Heatran does 50%~ to offensive ones. Latias can revenge weakened ones, while Metagross' BP does the same as Scizor.

    [​IMG] Weavile - Hi Scizor, Metagross, Suicune and Heatran.

    [​IMG] Yanmega - Scizor's BP 2HKOs it. SR doesnt really help Yanmega, and Heatran can take it on if it lacks HP Ground. Gliscor OHKOs with Stone Edge after taking an Air Slash as well.

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Offensive Dos is a BASTARD. Best bet is Trick with Latias to make it unusable, and then bring a counter to its move. Usually cant beat Latias, but Latias cant exactly beat them either. Heatran takes a lot from T-bolt, but can usually come out on top.


    Dec 29, 2007
    I don't see why you don't have Crocune in your slot. Considering you have Scizor to Pursuit Celebi + Heatran (you can PP Stall Vaporeon). I'm not going to lie... you added this Suicune set for the hell of it judging from your descriptions. I don't see how it benefits from your team anymore than Crocune.

    Sweeper Suicune (oh yeah you don't even have LO) is meant as a lure to certain Pokemon to open up a sweep. But it appears you have no goal other than keeping your resistances in tact. And one of the main reasons you're weak to Stall is mostly because that Suicune is pretty much setup fodder for Blissey to spread Toxic or throw Seismic Tosses around. Even if Latias Tricks its Scarf onto Blissey, Suicune still isn't beating it Blissey being able to use any move really; spamming Seismic Tosses or even Softboiled with Spikes down.

    So please, I highly advise you to use Crocune instead. But I will admit a flaw in using standard Crocune; you won't have Ice Beam to hit Salamence/Dragonite/Latias. So the set of Rest, CM, Surf, IB sounds good.

    Your team does have the resistances required to take on most of the metagame, and for that I can call it a decent team.
  4. Witnessed


    Aug 15, 2009
    Hey, looks similar to my team I posted two weeks ago.

    I agree with Stalefish, I really think Crocune is better than that set you are currently running. Stall teams will use Toxic Spikes to let their Suicune counter get in safely, so that they are not ripped apart by it. Because you are using that set, Toxic Spikes are going to ruin that internal part of your team, then your only real option is to start Taunting everything, and then Gliscor has to deal with the threat of being poisoned by Blissey or taking an Ice Beam or something right in the face. Crocune will tear apart the stall team they are using, and I agree once again with Stalefish on the CM/Rest/Surf/Ice Beam set.

    I am curious to know how you defeat Swampert.
    You say you switch Heatran in on the Ice Beam, but any sensible player will know that your Heatran will probably be carrying HP Grass to take it out. They will obviously switch in something like Latias, knowing that you will be effectively walled. Your only thing you can do here is explode or switch in Scizor. If you Explode, than there is the threat of Rotom switching in, which means Heatran is dead, and you have no way of defeating Swampert. Than your only hope being Latias' Draco Meteor, but then your literally asking to be killed by Scizor. If you switch Scizor in, in comes Rotom again. Although this may seem impossible, the fact that Rotom-H, Scizor, and Latias are all VERY common partners with each other means that this could be a common sight for you.

    Other than that, your team looks fine. Good Luck.
  5. franky

    franky aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 12, 2009
    Scarface nothing much to sayy, good job on the #3. Since I doubt your going to make any big changes, I'm just going to suggest a Life Orb Latias over Scarf. Since, the team itself won't struggle so much with Salamence, Gyarados, and Kingdra because for one, they can't set up much and I know your not one of those people who spam Bullet Punch early with Scizor. Second, you have Suicune as a safety blanket for those guys. Life Orb Latias deals with pursuit users much efficiently and have you deal with SpecsJolteon much easier. Its just a suggestion... gj.
  6. Famine


    Feb 9, 2008
    I love the Lead, lol i'm about to try it out myself as it really does manage to stomp out the top 15 leads with ease. I really don't think the Whole Toxic spikes on your suicune is a Huge Deal, or enough to change it into a Cro Cune, it just would not get as much done in this specific Case also it is the only thing affected by Toxic Spikes, and i Belieive since even though the poisen will cut it's use, you will still get alot out of it.

    And Clearly you do honey, you hit #3. So stay ballin

    I think it's a 10/10 team rey scar face ;)
  7. YTP


    Jun 13, 2008
    Cool team, Rey. I see a problem with Breloom which can be fixed by just using Aerial Ace over Stone Edge on Gliscor. It also still hits Gengar. Other than that... not much else to change. This team is really good and the success proves it.
  8. Tarquin


    Feb 3, 2009
    Check out teh Scarface ;P

    I am struggling to find any real weaknesses in this team AT ALL. You can tell why you have been through 4 teams so far because, after that time, you have reached near enough perfection (shown by ranking and the fact you have only 2 outlined threats, which is amazingly good)

    Definitely one of the most competent offensive teams I have seen, I am surprised that you're not going to push it to no.1??

    Or are you? :P

    Em, now onto the rate...
    I don't agree with making JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN <3 & The Italian Ghostly Mod -.- a crocune, as not only was it the team's inspiration (it would be a bit heartless to change it after the team it inspired got to no.3) but also it fits in nicely with the offensive tempo of the team. Instead, I suggest maybe just bulking it up a bit, sacrificing a bit of special attack to put into HP or defense, just to ease the amount of time Suicune can come in and attack nubs. Also, if you increase it's defense or HP siginificantly, add a Life Orb so that even though you have the bulk, when you attack, it's still at full force ^.^
  9. Dormin


    Dec 13, 2007
    The core is definitely solid and doesn't need to change. Heck, I don't think there is much at all to change. However, I think some EV spreads could use some work.

    I am a firm proponent of CM+3 attack Suicune. Its natural bulk and three attacks allow it to absolutely destroy much of the current metagame. The best item by far is Leftovers, which leads your opponent into thinking you are running a much slower Suicune. I'm sure you already realize much of this, but sometimes its good to verbalize the psychological aspect of such a powerful set. Aaaanyway, the EV spread. I have found the best spread for this Suicune to be Timid 164 HP, 224 Spe, 120 SpA. The 224 Spe allows you to outspeed Jolly Gyarados, and imo there is nothing worthwhile to outrun after the 287 Spe tier. The extra HP bulk can make the difference in winning or losing a battle, and I think it is absolutely necessary. With this spread, you have the perfect blend of speed, power, and bulk that really can't be matched in this metagame.

    While we are on the topic of bulky spreads, I've used this spread for Scizor to great effect: Adamant 160 HP, 176 Atk, 4 Spe, 168 SpDef. The power of CB Bullet Punch is still there, but the investment in SpDef gives you much better utility in revenge killing heavy special hitters like Starmie, Latias, and Gengar. I've never missed the little bit of extra power but I have certainly been frustrated after being KOed and losing a game.

    Besides that, not much else to say here. Sure you could argue that pursuiting CSLatias could be a problem, but the bulk of the rest of the team can easily make up for its absence. Great job Rey, I hope my small changes help a little :toast:
  10. reyscarface

    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Dec 9, 2008
    Thanks for all the rates guys, I appreciate it a lot.

    First of all, I did test all of the things that were recommended, including Crocune.

    First of all, with Crocune. Crocune was nice against stall, yeah, I wont say it wasn't. The deal with Crocune is that it slowed me way too much, usually losing a fuckload of momentum and also getting totally walled. The reason of the Suicune there is because it clears paths vs offensive teams in the early game, and although Crocune fares very well vs Stall, the negative points against offensive teams make me a bit iffy of replacing the set.

    Into LO Latias, it just didnt work out. Franky I appreciate your rate, but LO Latias didnt really do anything else, maybe ill test it some more, but it just let me prone to Offensive teams because of the lack of a revenge killer.

    Aerial Ace on Gliscor seems "lol" but it has been working decently. I dont hit Gyarados as hard, nor Mence, but its really nice to stop Brelooms and Gengars, since it never misses. Ill test it some more, and probably add it soon.

    Tarquin, im going for a bulkier spread with Suicune, it worked really nicely, thanks a lot, but LO really made me lose a lot of survability, so I think ill keep Leftovers.

    Aaaaaaand Dormin. Thanks for the rate man, your spreads really did a change, and the team started working better as a whole. Totally using those spreads in the future.

    Thanks for the rates guys, and if someone else has an idea, feel free to post it!

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