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Hydreigon
- Thread starter R.B.G.
- Start date
Doesn't Dragon + Fire already have perfect coverage, barring Heatran?
Earth Power would only be needed for Heatran really. I guess if specially-defensive Empoleon becomes popular then it would be the best attack vs that too.
In terms of power and accuracy, factoring STAB, we have:
Draco Meteor: 210/90%, -2 SpAtk
Dragon Pulse: 135/100%
Dark Pulse: 120/100%, flinch chance
Fire Blast: 120/85%
Flamethrower: 95/100%
Surf: 95/100%
Earth Power: 90/100%, least necesary attack coverage-wise.
DM + Fire Blast + Earth Power is the best in terms of perfect coverage, but lacks a reliable clean-up move. DM is unsuitable for succesive use, and FB + EP aren't ideal if you need to finish off 3 weakened pokemon.
Dragon Pulse or Dark Pulse are the best secondary STAB's. Is Dragon Pulse's slight power advantage offset by its redundant typing to DM and Dark Pulse's flinch chance?
Dark Pulse is def not pointless.
I know people theorymon these sets all day, but in reality, when Latias was OU, I never ran Dragon Pulse for a STAB to "clean up with." It was always Draco Meteor / Surf / Thunderbolt / Trick. Did Latias absolutely need to run Thunderbolt? After all, Dragon + Water was only resisted by Empoleon and Shedinja. Yet, Latias still found room to run Thunderbolt, because it was more reliable against bulky waters, helped it revenge kill Gyarados, and beat up on Skarmory. Well, Earth Power has several uses as well. First of all, it grabs the obvious coverage on Empoleon and Heatran. Earth Power also deals with Infernape without giving Steel-types an easy switchin (Draco Meteor).
Dark Pulse is essentially pointless; why not run Dragon Pulse if you are so concerned with a move to clean up with? Dark Pulse only hits Starmie, Azelf, Gengar and Dusknoir harder than Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Earth Power. The first three will hate Draco Meteor anyways, while Dusknoir won't be OHKOed by Dark Pulse either way. There is certainly reason to drop Earth Power, but I don't think you drop it for Dark Pulse.
I actually I ran a calc of Timid Specs Sazando Dark Pulse vs standard Impish Dusknoir.
523 Atk vs 306 Def & 294 HP (80 Base Power): 294 - 348 (100.00% - 118.37%)
Life Orb still has a great chance to OHKO after SR or Spikes:
349 Atk vs 306 Def & 294 HP (80 Base Power): 254 - 302 (86.39% - 102.72%)
Your point about Infernape is obviously true, but Dark Pulse OHKO's ghosts without relying on 90% accuracy and won't lower your stats.
Is Earth Power better than Dark Pulse? Very possibly, but I don't agree with "Dark Pulse is essentially pointless."
523 Atk vs 306 Def & 294 HP (80 Base Power): 294 - 348 (100.00% - 118.37%)
Life Orb still has a great chance to OHKO after SR or Spikes:
349 Atk vs 306 Def & 294 HP (80 Base Power): 254 - 302 (86.39% - 102.72%)
Your point about Infernape is obviously true, but Dark Pulse OHKO's ghosts without relying on 90% accuracy and won't lower your stats.
Is Earth Power better than Dark Pulse? Very possibly, but I don't agree with "Dark Pulse is essentially pointless."
I was running off of the assumption that Scarf would be its most dominant set, so excuse me for that.
We have found our Shanderaa counter in this one, unless shanderaa runs a choice scarf set with HP Ice....
Sazandora
Sazandora the Explorer
Timid Sazandora @ Choice Scarf
4HP/252SpA/252Spe
Sazandora the Explorer
Timid Sazandora @ Choice Scarf
~U-Turn
~Draco Meteor
~Fire Blast
~Earth Power / Dark Pulse / Dragon Pulse
This set is meant to be played as a scouter to eliminate Sazandora's usual switch-ins. Thanks to it good resistances, bulk and immunity to Spikes and TSpikes, it can spam U-Turn in early play and switch-in quite often.
The key to sucess with this set is that Sazandora can easily lure in steel types that resist it's dual STAB and Blissey who are trapped and eliminated by Magne... oh wait Shendeera of course (in case of Blissey, Shendeera sets up). Did I mention that Snedeera and Dora have quite good type coverage?
After Shendeera trapped your opponent's steel types, you are free to start a mini sweep or you can (over)predict your switch-in and kill after you scouted a little bit / discovered your opponent's play behaviour.
Also, this set is a revenge killer, it can revenge Gyarados, Garchomp, Onowhatever and go on. Unluckily, it's "low" speed makes it unable to revenge 252 Naive/Jolly Salamence and the billions of Pokémon that are beyond the 100 base speed mark now after a +1speed.
Cheer Up
Naive Sazandora @ Haban Berry / LO / Leftovers / Expert Belt
4Atk/252SpA/252Spe
~Cheer Up
~Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
~Fire Blast
~Crunch / EQ / Earth Power
Sazandora doesn't have to be a sad panda, as it is able to learn Cheer Up, the new stat-up move that boosts it's Atk and SpA one stage to respectable levels. I'm not sure with the Atk/SpA spread and the move coverage, but it's just a simple idea to show you that Sazandora can boost both of it's attacking stats and go mixed.
Specs / Band
Use your three coverage moves of choice and always U-Turn. This things pairs with Shendeera so well and it kills your dragon counters so good, you really have to use Shendeera with a choiced Sazandora.
Dragon Tail + Thunder Wave
Spreading paralysis is nice, isn't it? Unluckily it seems like Blissey (Natural Cure) and Doryuzuu (Ground/Steel mole) will switch in quite often into Sazandora.
PS: It doesn't get Pursuit, right?
-0²
I tested this poke it definitely owns the raw power of draco meteor with specs also cheer up with outrage fire blast earth power with life orb is another very good set another good set fire blast with surf draco meteor and outrage is another very good set for a sort of wallbreaker set all in all this pokemon owns some other good moves u-turn and taunt
Wouldn't Surf be a better choice than Earth Power on Specs sets? It still nails Heatran for SE damage, and provides a more reliable type to be locked in to. The only major SE coverage you lose is against Empoleon, who won't enjoy a Specs'd Fire Blast anyways.
A set with Draco Meteor / Surf / Fire Blast / U-turn would be the best bet.
A set with Draco Meteor / Surf / Fire Blast / U-turn would be the best bet.
I would think it eneds to OHKO heatran not ust hit it for SE damage. if surf does OHKo then why not. Hasall the egg moves been tested as im hoping hydro pump could have been an egg move. I eman it does get surf and is a "hydra" heck salamence got hydro pump when it couldnt even learn surf.
I think the calcs speak for themselves.
Yeah, Surf is definitely the best option.. I didn't even realize he had access. Surf hits Heatran hard, but also Tyranitar, while not being completely useless against switchins like Salamence.
Some calcs on Mild/Rash 252 sp Atk/252 speed/4 atk LO version with DM/FB/EQ/U-turn
252/0 (aka standard lead) metagross takes 101.9% min from DM + -2 Fire blast, no rocks
252/252 impish skarmory takes 94.3% min from DM + -2 Fire blast factoring in lefties. assuming SR and lefties 252/252 careful versions take 98.2% min while impish ones are 2HKO'd 100% of the time
252/252 careful forretress takes 139.5% min from DM + -2 Fire blast factoring in lefties and assuming no entry hazards
252/252 careful Nattorei takes 96.02% min from DM + -2 Fire blast, assuming rocks negates lefties.
252/0 Jirachi takes 83.6-99% after rocks/lefties from DM and -2 fire blast
4/0/0 shuca berry Heatran takes 104.3% min from DM + EQ without rocks in play. obviously staying in on scarf tran isnt the best of ideas.
252/252/4 Bold bliss takes 51.5%-61.0% from DM+U-turn without entry hazards
188/252/68 Bold Vaporeon takes 96.7%-115.6% factoring in lefties from DM + -2DM, over 80% chance to KO even without entry hazards.
252/252/4 Rest talk/CroCune takes 97.8%-116.6% after lefties from DM + -2 DM, almost 90% chance to kill without any prior damage.
180/0/0 (386/256/354)(standard CB, sorta bulky) T-Tar takes 101.29% min from DM +EQ with no rocks/spikes.
standard 252/80/92 Sassy Bronzong takes 74.8%-88.1% from DM followed by -2 Fire blast accounting for lefties/rocks
This set cleanly 2HKO's some of the best walls out there almost perfectly, scoring countless 97-105% min damage totals. is Gamefreak trolling us? or will this be a case where #'s dont tell the whole story? Skarm, forry, nutty, vappy, suicune, t-tar, all go to mindless DM spam+follow-up move. Bronzong/Jirachi are the only Gen IV/lower pokes i've found that can live through 2 hits, although scarf rachi/tran just have to live through the meteor. Even bronzong/rachi are taking 88/99% max damage.
Thoughts?
252/0 (aka standard lead) metagross takes 101.9% min from DM + -2 Fire blast, no rocks
252/252 impish skarmory takes 94.3% min from DM + -2 Fire blast factoring in lefties. assuming SR and lefties 252/252 careful versions take 98.2% min while impish ones are 2HKO'd 100% of the time
252/252 careful forretress takes 139.5% min from DM + -2 Fire blast factoring in lefties and assuming no entry hazards
252/252 careful Nattorei takes 96.02% min from DM + -2 Fire blast, assuming rocks negates lefties.
252/0 Jirachi takes 83.6-99% after rocks/lefties from DM and -2 fire blast
4/0/0 shuca berry Heatran takes 104.3% min from DM + EQ without rocks in play. obviously staying in on scarf tran isnt the best of ideas.
252/252/4 Bold bliss takes 51.5%-61.0% from DM+U-turn without entry hazards
188/252/68 Bold Vaporeon takes 96.7%-115.6% factoring in lefties from DM + -2DM, over 80% chance to KO even without entry hazards.
252/252/4 Rest talk/CroCune takes 97.8%-116.6% after lefties from DM + -2 DM, almost 90% chance to kill without any prior damage.
180/0/0 (386/256/354)(standard CB, sorta bulky) T-Tar takes 101.29% min from DM +EQ with no rocks/spikes.
standard 252/80/92 Sassy Bronzong takes 74.8%-88.1% from DM followed by -2 Fire blast accounting for lefties/rocks
This set cleanly 2HKO's some of the best walls out there almost perfectly, scoring countless 97-105% min damage totals. is Gamefreak trolling us? or will this be a case where #'s dont tell the whole story? Skarm, forry, nutty, vappy, suicune, t-tar, all go to mindless DM spam+follow-up move. Bronzong/Jirachi are the only Gen IV/lower pokes i've found that can live through 2 hits, although scarf rachi/tran just have to live through the meteor. Even bronzong/rachi are taking 88/99% max damage.
Thoughts?
Would Sazando be better off using dark pulse and earth quake or earth power and crunch? I believe that earth power is not breedable with dark pulse, as dark pulse is no longer a tm.
well there really is no need for earth power draco meteor dark pulse/ fire blast surf and u-turn is plenty enough
IMO this thing wont be getting much usage, because everything it can do is done better by mence, latias or Tyranitar (if they all come down to OU *hopes*) Mence will be doing mix or full out physical better, latias will be doing things better on the special side of things (scarf/specs) and something that would seperate sazandora from Latias and mence is pursuit, which could be viable but then... oh yeah ttar.
Mence doesn't get to fire Draco Meteors off a base 125 SpA stat, nor does it get a reliable water move on a Specs set (Hydro Pump is hardly reliable). It doesn't get to scout switches with U-turn, nor does it have a neutrality to SR or a Pursuit resistance (after a DM it's not hard for something to come in and pursuit a SpecsMence). Yes, Mence does a mixed set better, but it doesn't have superiority in every aspect. Latias has many of the same differences except it's complete Pursuit bait and lacks a Fire move for steels. I'm not trying to say Sazandora is obviously superior (it's not), but it does have many merits over the others.
Sazandora actually gets Palkia-like coverage with a set of Draco Meteor/Surf/Fire Blast/U-turn, which I find interesting. The ability to abuse both types of boosting weather will likely be pretty useful with the two new abusers running around.
Sazandora actually gets Palkia-like coverage with a set of Draco Meteor/Surf/Fire Blast/U-turn, which I find interesting. The ability to abuse both types of boosting weather will likely be pretty useful with the two new abusers running around.