Ice-types; chillin' with the villains (except Magmortar)

[CrashinBoomBang]

Yeah, offensive Cryogonal is pretty good at harassing more offensive teams with its powerful Ice Beam and ability to come in more than once thanks to good special bulk and Recover. Being the best Rapid Spinner in the tier, which means it's not dead weight against Stall either, just helps its case even more.

I remember Limi talking about Offensive Roost Articuno yesterday, and I really like the idea; it would reduce its reliance on there not being Stealth Rocks a bit and I know from experience that it can hit really hard. The only problem is that you're either stuck with the weak Air Cutter (if you pick Hidden Power Rock/Ground/whatever) or without a coverage Hidden Power (if you pick Hidden Power Flying). It sounds interesting though and I'm really tempted to try it out.

Lapras also sounds pretty cool in this metagame, being able to take on pretty much all variants of Gorebyss without breaking a sweat. It's also good against Samurott as long as it watches out for boosted Megahorn (most I've seen lately are mixed though), making it a dependable Water-Pokemon counter in general with the exception of Carracosta and Ludicolo.

 

[Axa]

LO Samurott actually has a chance to 2HKO Lapras with Grass Knot, so Lapras isn't a catch-all counter, especially with no recovery. Still, it's alright.

Is Beartic completely outclassed by Piloswine at this point? No SS hurts its potential.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

My bad, I forgot that gets Grass Knot. I was thinking Hidden Power Grass for whatever reason...

Beartic is okay, but that's about it. Superpower can be useful, the higher attack can be useful, but overall STAB EQ seems to be worth it more in this metagame, with all those Garbodor running around. A weakness to Rock compared to a neutrality can also be annoying. Beartic not getting Ice Shard OR Earthquake is my main concern, though, with both being highly useful; Beartic would LOVE Ice Shard.

 

[Unbreakable]

I dunno about cryogonal's cloyster syndrome: sure, he can come in and spin away spikes, but if you're dealing with sr he's kinda screwed. Its good speed means it can also pull off a dual screen set (as noted on-site), but it should probably always set reflect first for obvious reasons. Another interesting idea is Cryogonal's support movepool plus high speed being used to set up weather (!).

But yeah, I'd say beartic's lack of ice shard, eq and ability to use eviolite means that it will well and truly be NeverUsed compared to Piloswine.

 

[Incon]

I've been looking for an oppurtunity to use Vanilluxe. I mean, honestly, who wouldn't want to fight with an ice cream cone. Komodo's set seemed pretty cool, as well as an automize set. Anyway... what do you guys think of the Jynx ban, as she is an ice type pokemon that i very much enjoyed using.

 

[erisia]

I wanted to write an analysis for this thing back in the day, but it's sooooo outclassed. Automatize and Taunt are pretty much the only things it has over Ice types, and Vanilluxe doesn't have the movepool or stat distribution to abuse them. Automatize / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt / Focus Blast would have been cool...

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

Well, it does have very good overall stats and it also has Weather Ball which is pretty cool for a Weather team I guess.

At that point you might as well use Lapras for STAB on water attacks + Thunderbolt, though.

I also calculated that it could be a cool lure for something like Magmortar thanks to its decent bulk, Rain Dance and Weather Ball (assuming you keep Stealth Rocks off the field somehow and get it in without damage which isn't very likely but whatever):

252SpAtk Life Orb Magmortar (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 92HP/0SpDef Weak Armor Vanilluxe (Neutral): 84% - 100% (260 - 306 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

252SpAtk Vanilluxe (Neutral) Weather Ball in Rain vs 4HP/0SpDef Magmortar (Neutral): 104% - 122% (304 - 358 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

Note that you're dead if Magmortar uses Focus Blast.

It also works against Choice Band Emboar, which is pretty cool considering Emboar is another good switch-in to it. Rain Dance will probably make them reconsider staying in though, and Scarf Emboar just outspeeds and grabs the OHKO with Superpower.

252SpAtk Vanilluxe (Neutral) Weather Ball in Rain vs 252HP/0SpDef Emboar (Neutral): 97% - 115% (414 - 488 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 86% chance to OHKO.

Vanilluxe would be so much cooler if it at least outsped Magmortar without using Autotomize or a Choice Scarf instead of having to tank a hit...

 

[erisia]

I also tried Vanilluxe in a Rain team. The main question is... is Ice-type STAB really that necessary for maintaining a Rain-offensive? Altaria is decimated by Ice Beam whether it's STAB or not, while Ludicolo isn't OHKO'd by STAB LO Ice Beam and is better dealt with by Seismitoad or Mantine if they can get in safely. While Weather Ball is cool, I don't see how Vanilluxe is more useful than just about any other Rain sweeper. Unlike Ludicolo, Gorebyss, Seismitoad and Mantine, it can't switch into much either.

And the problem with Vanilluxe's stats is that they aren't distributed too well. Vanilluxe will never use its Attack stat outside of a rare Explosion or Ice Shard, and its defensive stats are undermined by its typing. Meanwhile, it's Special Attack isn't amazing, it only gets one STAB (and almost no coverage), and its Speed is below stuff like Braviary. Le sigh... Gamefreak had a lot of potential to make this better... swapping Attack for Speed and giving it Focus Blast would have been nice...