-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
In Game Tiers, Platinum Edition!!
- Thread starter RBG
- Start date
- Status
Just an FYI, you can get a Fire, Thunder or Water Stone in the Solaceon Ruins (one per side room) so you don't have to muck around with the Underground for them. I'd say for the Eevees, Vaporeon's a B, Jolteon's a C (there's a Shock Wave TM on Route 215 so it picks up a decent Electric move quickly) and the others are Ds. (Flareon and Leafeon have movepool issues, and the others are wicked ripping pains in the ass to get).
Hp recovery moves aren't as neccessary due to us being able to use potions ingame (unless if you're doing some no-item run, then you can use Rest on Vaporeon)
Buizel is not tier S material. He's not bulky like Gyarados/Empoleon/Vaporeon, and his movepool is limited to Crunch/Ice Fang/Waterfall. He DOES get aqua jet, which can be useful ingame, but other than that, he's a little too weak ingame for tier S. (High B at best)
Abomasnow > Mamoswine because of auto-hail, wood hammer, ice shard, which are all useful for the elite 4, since Wood Hammer destroys Bertha, where as Earthquake is really only useful vs Flint, who'll OHKO mamo with their fire attacks. And Hail lets you stall-win should your team is under level'd.
I wouldn't ever use Abomasnow, auto-hail is way too annoying and damaging (proven by the route to Snowpoint city, honestly that route requires so many potions). Not to mention wood-hammer isn't as useful as a good Earthquake which gets much better neutral coverage and doen't have recoil damage. Unless you're running a mono ice team (basically impossible in-game and hardly useful) Abomasnow should be much lower than Mamoswine. Tier B at best, probably C since there are both better Ice (Weaville) and Grass (Roserade) Pokemon.
My input:
Hoothoot-D: HORRID base stats, 1 or 2 good moves factoring TMs (Roost and Psychic). At least you can catch it in Eterna Forest.
Spiritoum-D: Relies on a hard and time consuming side mission, stats somewhat like Bronzong. He does not have any hindering weaknesses though (in fact, he doesn't have weaknesses at all!)
Whooper-C: Has a good typing (and is caught past the gym with his one weakness) and a great ability (water absorb), only to be dragged down by a bad ability (damp), the fact that you're starter is evolved when he get's his best attack (EQ), and a _decent_ base stat total. Outclassed by Gyara, and Floatzel to an extent.
Wingull-D: Caught after the fourth gym, low speed upon evolution, bad movepool.
Girafarig-B: Usable stats and good movepool, odd yet great typing. Caught a bit late though.
Hippopotas-C: Caught late, involves tedios side quest, slow ability, just slow. Workable typing and movepool.
Azurill-D: Nigh on imposible to get in decent time, one of it's abilities stinks. Huge power Azumarril is good, but... just pass this one up.
More later...
Hoothoot-D: HORRID base stats, 1 or 2 good moves factoring TMs (Roost and Psychic). At least you can catch it in Eterna Forest.
Spiritoum-D: Relies on a hard and time consuming side mission, stats somewhat like Bronzong. He does not have any hindering weaknesses though (in fact, he doesn't have weaknesses at all!)
Whooper-C: Has a good typing (and is caught past the gym with his one weakness) and a great ability (water absorb), only to be dragged down by a bad ability (damp), the fact that you're starter is evolved when he get's his best attack (EQ), and a _decent_ base stat total. Outclassed by Gyara, and Floatzel to an extent.
Wingull-D: Caught after the fourth gym, low speed upon evolution, bad movepool.
Girafarig-B: Usable stats and good movepool, odd yet great typing. Caught a bit late though.
Hippopotas-C: Caught late, involves tedios side quest, slow ability, just slow. Workable typing and movepool.
Azurill-D: Nigh on imposible to get in decent time, one of it's abilities stinks. Huge power Azumarril is good, but... just pass this one up.
More later...
Grass attacks are more useful than Ground attacks for the elite 4 imo, and there really isn't a good grass type in game anyways. (Roserade doesn't get any good natural moves, forcing you to TM.)
And since both Aboma and Mamo are both gotten FAR in the game, I don't really want to give both of them a good tier. (low B at highest) Aboma has the advantage that he doesn't need any training to be useful in the elite 4, where as Mamoswine only comes as Swinub, thus requiring you to train it before it can match up to your other mons. (and slowing down your speed run)
And since both Aboma and Mamo are both gotten FAR in the game, I don't really want to give both of them a good tier. (low B at highest) Aboma has the advantage that he doesn't need any training to be useful in the elite 4, where as Mamoswine only comes as Swinub, thus requiring you to train it before it can match up to your other mons. (and slowing down your speed run)
Manaphy - F because it's from another game (Ranger) and comes as Phione. Too hard to get
Hippopotas - D because it has very little offensive capability and perm sandstorm is usually a bad thing
Ralts - S. Best shot at a psychic type. Gallade is amazing when running through the game, especially paired with Empoleon. I taught it Drain Punch, move tutor Leaf Blade, and learn Psycho Cut and Swords Dance. Gardevoir is also very good: with Trace, it can take out Gyaradoses very easily (Intimidate and Shock Wave TM). It's a powerful special sweeper in it's own right.
Houndour - B. He's the best of the pre-Elite 4 fire types bar Chimchar, but he only learns physical (his weaker attacking stat, and the strongest move you'll get is Fire Fang) moves until ridiculously high levels. Add to that you get him late in the game.
Scyther - A. With Technician and the Aerial Ace TM, he can do some serious damage. Not to mention he can evolve (via Metal Coat and trade, which can be annoying) into the #1 used OU pokemon, which is never a bad thing.
Magnemite - B. Best electric type you can get without a RSE cartridge, but you get him rather late (around Fuego Ironworks). He's very easy to evolve into Magnezone and a great recipient of the Thunderbolt TM, but his secondary type, Steel (with Flash Cannon TM) isn't all too great an attacking type.
Ghastly - B. Easy to catch early in the game, but only learns physical moves (Shadow Punch, Sucker Punch, Lick) early. If you WTC bug him to Gengar and give him a special TM or 2, he can get you by, but outclassed by Rotom.
Hippopotas - D because it has very little offensive capability and perm sandstorm is usually a bad thing
Ralts - S. Best shot at a psychic type. Gallade is amazing when running through the game, especially paired with Empoleon. I taught it Drain Punch, move tutor Leaf Blade, and learn Psycho Cut and Swords Dance. Gardevoir is also very good: with Trace, it can take out Gyaradoses very easily (Intimidate and Shock Wave TM). It's a powerful special sweeper in it's own right.
Houndour - B. He's the best of the pre-Elite 4 fire types bar Chimchar, but he only learns physical (his weaker attacking stat, and the strongest move you'll get is Fire Fang) moves until ridiculously high levels. Add to that you get him late in the game.
Scyther - A. With Technician and the Aerial Ace TM, he can do some serious damage. Not to mention he can evolve (via Metal Coat and trade, which can be annoying) into the #1 used OU pokemon, which is never a bad thing.
Magnemite - B. Best electric type you can get without a RSE cartridge, but you get him rather late (around Fuego Ironworks). He's very easy to evolve into Magnezone and a great recipient of the Thunderbolt TM, but his secondary type, Steel (with Flash Cannon TM) isn't all too great an attacking type.
Ghastly - B. Easy to catch early in the game, but only learns physical moves (Shadow Punch, Sucker Punch, Lick) early. If you WTC bug him to Gengar and give him a special TM or 2, he can get you by, but outclassed by Rotom.
Don't think Ralts deserves S. Ralts are pretty rare in the wild I believe, and you still have to look for the right gender. Plus, they might teleport away, making them even harder to catch. I do agree in that they are the best Psychic types in game.
Gastly should be at C. Terrible moves without TM, and ghost/poison isn't exactly the best attack combination ingame.
Gastly should be at C. Terrible moves without TM, and ghost/poison isn't exactly the best attack combination ingame.
Here's my input on the untiered Pokemon
Hoothoot -C- Hypnosis is nice, but it is outclassed offensively by Staraptor.
Spiritomb -B- Nice stats and decent attacks, but slow and hard to get.
Wooper -C- Nice typing, ability, and decent moveset, but too slow to do much damage.
Wingull -C- Gyarados is much better, as this thing's stats are not too good.
Girafarig -B- Comes a tad bit late but has fairly unique typing and a good movepool complemented by useable stats, Ralts is usually better though.
Hippopotas -D- Sandstorm wears down teammates, and it is really rare, not to mention slow.
Azurill -C- Frendship evolution is too much effort, if you can get this as Marill with Huge Power it can be very good though, probably a B.
Skorupi -C- Evolves rather late with only one evolution, but it has good stats and a nice offensive movepool, with only one weakness too, but evolving it is a pain.
Croagunk -B-Good movepool with decent stats. The water immunity granted by Dry Skin is useful.
Carnivine -D- Too many other Grass types are better, has a bad movepool.
Remoraid -B- Evolution is very slow, but it has a great movepool with good attacking stats.
Finneon -D- Outclassed by practically every other Water-type in the game.
Tentacool -C- Comes a bit late and by then you'll likely have a Gyarados/Floatzel/Empoleon already trained. It has decent stats though.
Mantyke -D- Comes too late.
Snover -D- Comes really late, auto hail is bad for your team.
Manaphy -F- Too hard to get, but it is very good.
Gligar -C- Outclassed as an attacker by Gible.
Nosepass -D- Good defenses but very poor offenses, evolution isn't much better.
Ralts -A- Evolves decently quickly and both of its evolutions are very good with great movepools, Gallade comes a bit late though.
Lickitung -C- Stats are pretty bad.
Eevee -B- Depends on the evolution, but none of them have good movepools without TMs. Vaporeon and Jolteon are pretty good though statwise.
Swablu -D- Too weak to be of much use.
Togepi -D- The pain it takes to evolve it is not worth it.
Houndour -B- Frail, but good attacking stats and cool movepool.
Magnemite -B- Slow, but has great Sp. Atk with a good typing. Steel STAB is pretty lackluster though.
Tangela -B- Good movepool with decent stats, but the horrible Speed stinks.
Yanma -C- Not any good until late in the game.
Tropius -B- Good HM slave with okay stats, but otherwise is pretty mediocre.
Rhyhorn -D- Not worth taking the trouble to evolve it at such a late level, otherwise see Geodude.
Duskull -C- Bad offensive capabilities.
Porygon -B- Decent stats and abilities, good movepool, evolutions are pretty awesome.
Scyther -S- Great offenses with a decent movepool, Technician is an amazing ability, and Scizor is awesome with great typing and Bullet Punch.
Elekid -D- Comes too late, evolutions are nothing special.
Magby -B- Good movepool with decent stats, but comes late.
Swinub -C- Comes far too late in the game to be worth it.
Hoothoot -C- Hypnosis is nice, but it is outclassed offensively by Staraptor.
Spiritomb -B- Nice stats and decent attacks, but slow and hard to get.
Wooper -C- Nice typing, ability, and decent moveset, but too slow to do much damage.
Wingull -C- Gyarados is much better, as this thing's stats are not too good.
Girafarig -B- Comes a tad bit late but has fairly unique typing and a good movepool complemented by useable stats, Ralts is usually better though.
Hippopotas -D- Sandstorm wears down teammates, and it is really rare, not to mention slow.
Azurill -C- Frendship evolution is too much effort, if you can get this as Marill with Huge Power it can be very good though, probably a B.
Skorupi -C- Evolves rather late with only one evolution, but it has good stats and a nice offensive movepool, with only one weakness too, but evolving it is a pain.
Croagunk -B-Good movepool with decent stats. The water immunity granted by Dry Skin is useful.
Carnivine -D- Too many other Grass types are better, has a bad movepool.
Remoraid -B- Evolution is very slow, but it has a great movepool with good attacking stats.
Finneon -D- Outclassed by practically every other Water-type in the game.
Tentacool -C- Comes a bit late and by then you'll likely have a Gyarados/Floatzel/Empoleon already trained. It has decent stats though.
Mantyke -D- Comes too late.
Snover -D- Comes really late, auto hail is bad for your team.
Manaphy -F- Too hard to get, but it is very good.
Gligar -C- Outclassed as an attacker by Gible.
Nosepass -D- Good defenses but very poor offenses, evolution isn't much better.
Ralts -A- Evolves decently quickly and both of its evolutions are very good with great movepools, Gallade comes a bit late though.
Lickitung -C- Stats are pretty bad.
Eevee -B- Depends on the evolution, but none of them have good movepools without TMs. Vaporeon and Jolteon are pretty good though statwise.
Swablu -D- Too weak to be of much use.
Togepi -D- The pain it takes to evolve it is not worth it.
Houndour -B- Frail, but good attacking stats and cool movepool.
Magnemite -B- Slow, but has great Sp. Atk with a good typing. Steel STAB is pretty lackluster though.
Tangela -B- Good movepool with decent stats, but the horrible Speed stinks.
Yanma -C- Not any good until late in the game.
Tropius -B- Good HM slave with okay stats, but otherwise is pretty mediocre.
Rhyhorn -D- Not worth taking the trouble to evolve it at such a late level, otherwise see Geodude.
Duskull -C- Bad offensive capabilities.
Porygon -B- Decent stats and abilities, good movepool, evolutions are pretty awesome.
Scyther -S- Great offenses with a decent movepool, Technician is an amazing ability, and Scizor is awesome with great typing and Bullet Punch.
Elekid -D- Comes too late, evolutions are nothing special.
Magby -B- Good movepool with decent stats, but comes late.
Swinub -C- Comes far too late in the game to be worth it.
I agree on most of that Fireburn, however I would think Rhyhorn deserves more than D. In-game, most attacks are physical, and Rhyhorn has a great defense, and strong attacks. Although it comes late, it is very useful.
Spiritomb really isn't worth it, even if you can get it, it's attacks are weak until late game. Outclassed offensively by Gengar. (Gengar is brilliant, hypnosis really helps in boss battles, and those resistances are useful when it's a Gastly. Ghost-poison is amazing when everything else is using tackle and grass-type attacks)
Spiritomb really isn't worth it, even if you can get it, it's attacks are weak until late game. Outclassed offensively by Gengar. (Gengar is brilliant, hypnosis really helps in boss battles, and those resistances are useful when it's a Gastly. Ghost-poison is amazing when everything else is using tackle and grass-type attacks)
Houndour - C - Receivable somewhat late-game, outclassed by Chimchar. He does have access to Nasty Plot later on though. Respectable special stat.
Eevee - C - Can get somewhat early in the game (3rd gym), and can evolve into a plethora of types. Although Espeon and Umbreon may evolve slower. All forms have pretty good attacks / stats.
Elekid - D - Accessible late game. Involves hunting for Electrizer in order to evolve it to full potential.
-Terywj
Eevee - C - Can get somewhat early in the game (3rd gym), and can evolve into a plethora of types. Although Espeon and Umbreon may evolve slower. All forms have pretty good attacks / stats.
Elekid - D - Accessible late game. Involves hunting for Electrizer in order to evolve it to full potential.
-Terywj
Houndour is quite frail, however, it should be mentioned that fighting and fire types are recommended for Gyms 6+7 (steel and ice). Also, in the extremely long snow route, it helps to have one of these types (Infernape is amazing, as it is both).
Even receiving Gible eariler now.. Garchomp is still a pain to level. It's very slow leveling.. not to mention Garchomp has to be fed TMs, or move tutor to reach its true potential. I'd rate him a C, if you base it on a speed run.
I think Yanma deserves a B. Level 30 in Pastoria isn't too bad, and it's only about 3 levels away from evolution. With 116 base satk, Yanmega is hitting pretty hard, and Tinted Lens means it need not worry too much about type coverage. Silver Wind/Signal Beam, Shadow Ball, Air Cutter, and Ancientpower can tide you over until it gets Air Slash and Bug Buzz.
Houndour is another B Pokemon, I'd say, though it could border on A. Like Yanma, it's caught only a few levels away from evolving, and Houndoom is pretty kickass. Able to hit pretty well on both sides of the spectrum, and Fire and Dark are both very good attacking types. It's a bit frail, but frailness is generally less of a problem in-game, with all those healing items available. It won't help all that much with Crasher Wake or Bertha, but it can certainly put the hurt on Fantina, Byron, Candice, Aaron, and Lucian.
Houndour is another B Pokemon, I'd say, though it could border on A. Like Yanma, it's caught only a few levels away from evolving, and Houndoom is pretty kickass. Able to hit pretty well on both sides of the spectrum, and Fire and Dark are both very good attacking types. It's a bit frail, but frailness is generally less of a problem in-game, with all those healing items available. It won't help all that much with Crasher Wake or Bertha, but it can certainly put the hurt on Fantina, Byron, Candice, Aaron, and Lucian.
I have to agree that Houndour is a B or higher, especially if one's starter isn't Chimchar; even though it's frail, caught mid-game, and requires the Flamethrower/FireBlast TM (and PP Ups with FB), it combines two mostly-unrelated STAB types (Fire and Dark), which can be really useful in hitting as much stuff as possible, and it's immune to Psychic (and Fire, if you catch a Flash Fire 'Dour). With Faint Attack, it totally dominates Candice's Froslass.
Rotom - S - Even though it only has Thunderbolt/Discharge/Shadow Ball without the Secret Key, its typing and ability means that it comes close to walling Maylene's entire gym, along with most Ground/Normal types (avoid Night Slashing Normals). Electric/Ghost allows you to hit many different types, with tons of resistances/immunities. On top of that, it pairs fabulously with Torterra during in-game double battles, allowing you to spam Discharge/Earthquake to your heart's content :naughty:.
Buizel - B - Wicked fast, decent Atk for firing off Aqua Jet/Ice Punch/Crunch, but doesn't get Waterfall until after 8th badge, and it's not sturdy at all. (Personal aside: Floatzel's cry gets really annoying after awhile)
Snover - C - Decent STABs; gets both Wood Hammer and Blizzard by level 41. Unfortunately, caught VERY late, gets outsped by Cynthia's Garchomp, and the other team members won't like the hail at all.
Rhyhorn - C - If you're patient enough to catch it mid-game, use Earthquake TM on it, and wait ~15 levels for it to evolve, Rhydon/Rhyperior can outperform Graveler/Golem from that point forward. Unfortunately, Rock/Ground loses its use late-game, although it rips Volkner a new one, outside of Raichu's Focus Blast.
Skorupi - D - No one wants to sit around in the Great Marsh looking for it. Plus, its only value is in Drapion's Crunch, the elemental fangs, and Psychic immunity.
Croagunk - C - Poison STAB is almost useless; if it can avoid Psychic/Ground moves, Revenge MIGHT be of use.
Eevee/Espeon - C - Eevee, as a movepool-barren Normal-type, is dead weight; lugging around Eevee trying to bolster its happiness is unfortunate, but Espeon is fast, with great SpA with which to beat down Team Galactic. Almost requires Psychic TM, since Psybeam doesn't cut it after awhile, and its special movepool is restricted to Psychic/Swift/Shadow Ball.
Eevee/Umbreon - D - See Espeon regarding happiness; it can't kill anything not weak to Dark, especially without Payback.
Rotom - S - Even though it only has Thunderbolt/Discharge/Shadow Ball without the Secret Key, its typing and ability means that it comes close to walling Maylene's entire gym, along with most Ground/Normal types (avoid Night Slashing Normals). Electric/Ghost allows you to hit many different types, with tons of resistances/immunities. On top of that, it pairs fabulously with Torterra during in-game double battles, allowing you to spam Discharge/Earthquake to your heart's content :naughty:.
Buizel - B - Wicked fast, decent Atk for firing off Aqua Jet/Ice Punch/Crunch, but doesn't get Waterfall until after 8th badge, and it's not sturdy at all. (Personal aside: Floatzel's cry gets really annoying after awhile)
Snover - C - Decent STABs; gets both Wood Hammer and Blizzard by level 41. Unfortunately, caught VERY late, gets outsped by Cynthia's Garchomp, and the other team members won't like the hail at all.
Rhyhorn - C - If you're patient enough to catch it mid-game, use Earthquake TM on it, and wait ~15 levels for it to evolve, Rhydon/Rhyperior can outperform Graveler/Golem from that point forward. Unfortunately, Rock/Ground loses its use late-game, although it rips Volkner a new one, outside of Raichu's Focus Blast.
Skorupi - D - No one wants to sit around in the Great Marsh looking for it. Plus, its only value is in Drapion's Crunch, the elemental fangs, and Psychic immunity.
Croagunk - C - Poison STAB is almost useless; if it can avoid Psychic/Ground moves, Revenge MIGHT be of use.
Eevee/Espeon - C - Eevee, as a movepool-barren Normal-type, is dead weight; lugging around Eevee trying to bolster its happiness is unfortunate, but Espeon is fast, with great SpA with which to beat down Team Galactic. Almost requires Psychic TM, since Psybeam doesn't cut it after awhile, and its special movepool is restricted to Psychic/Swift/Shadow Ball.
Eevee/Umbreon - D - See Espeon regarding happiness; it can't kill anything not weak to Dark, especially without Payback.
Just wondering, once this gets completed (or whoever far it will go), will it be added to the in-game expansion? I'm sure it would be useful for some people to see what are generally good/bad in-game pokemon.
Apologies if the answer to my question has already been stated elsewhere.
Apologies if the answer to my question has already been stated elsewhere.
Swinub-B
Gets Ice Shard early, good for taking out quick Grass, Flying and Dragon Types. Evolves quickly and gets Earthquake and Mud Bomb early for taking out Volkner. Bertha as well as Flint don't like Mamoswine. Cynthia's Garchomp is a pain too, and Mamoswine can kill it with one Avalanche providing Chomp goes first. You can get Swinub and Toss the Exp Share on it while you do the Gym and have a great Pokemon by Volkner. The only Downsides are its speed, however Avalanche and Ice Shard can counter this. Someone said you get late game so it is bad. I disagree. You do get it quite late game, but lots of E4 members Pokemon and the last Gym fall to it.
Gets Ice Shard early, good for taking out quick Grass, Flying and Dragon Types. Evolves quickly and gets Earthquake and Mud Bomb early for taking out Volkner. Bertha as well as Flint don't like Mamoswine. Cynthia's Garchomp is a pain too, and Mamoswine can kill it with one Avalanche providing Chomp goes first. You can get Swinub and Toss the Exp Share on it while you do the Gym and have a great Pokemon by Volkner. The only Downsides are its speed, however Avalanche and Ice Shard can counter this. Someone said you get late game so it is bad. I disagree. You do get it quite late game, but lots of E4 members Pokemon and the last Gym fall to it.
He's actually very easy to catch, all it took was a great ball at full health (I caught about 6 for IVs/nature). Gardevoir with CM/Psychic/Shock Wave/filler can wreck almost any trainer after 1 CM. Not to mention Gallade evolves easily thanks to the shiny stone next to Pastoria where you can catch him in the first place.
I see your point with Ghastly, I'm kind of biased as Gengar was my favorite poke back in the RBY days.
Alakazam can run that same exact set with more Speed and Special Attack, so it's the more superior option. And you can actually get him earlier. Getting Abra to 16 isn't hard, and it isn't difficult at all to find someone to trade with. An Alakazam so early in the game is just beastly. pretty much nothing can surive its STAB attacks.
Even kadabra can do the trick.
- Status