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Data Initial Gen 7 UU Banlists (updated in post #38)

Discussion in 'Smogon Metagames' started by Antar, Jan 5, 2017.

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  1. Melons-N-Soda

    Melons-N-Soda

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    Baton Pass will likely be the next suspect in OU, though I wouldn't be surprised if Lando-T and Mega Meta get put on that pedestal later down the line. I've never really seen complaints about either of those two being broken though.

    If BP gets banned, Xurkitree usage will dip significantly like what happened to mons like Vaporeon last gen. The thing suffers from being in a meta with so much shit that can kill it easily, be it Lando, Dugtrio, Chomp etc. Its usable, but far from being good, hence why its C on the viability rankings right now.
  2. JTD783

    JTD783

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    OU's biggest concerns atm, as discussed in forums, are Arena Trap and Baton Pass. Other complaints are against Lele, Mega Metagross, and Greninja. I don't intend to argue whether any of these should stay or go, but it should be made clear that most OU players, whether they play on ladder or in tournaments, don't feel that Lando-T is an issue. Honestly most people want to use it because so many other mons would be hard to check if it weren't in OU (such as Zard X, Mega Metagross, Excadrill).

    Xurkitree's remaining use in OU is mildly surprising, but it does make for a good baton pass recipient, and as we've said, that's the only selling point it has in OU. Obviously it can break stall teams but Dugtrio's existence makes this virtually impossible, and other mons like Hoopa and Lele can do the same job without being deadweight against faster teams.

    Repeat after me: Outside of BP, Xurkitree is garbage.

    UU players just need to be patient; it's a matter of time before more mons drop. Enjoy Clef and Mantine for the time being, the latter of which will find itself very useful with the influx of rain spam.

    In case people aren't aware, Mimikyu and Zapdos are decent in OU, and I don't expect them to drop anytime soon. They certainly aren't splashable but they do have clear niches. Clef and Mantine are doing okay viability-wise but the power creep has made them less effective than they were/ would have been in ORAS. Don't abandon them.
  3. Seth_

    Seth_

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    Well, I expect that baton pass will be quickbanned. I see no reason to defend it, whatsoever.

    Lando-t might not be consider straight out broken but might be banned due to unhealthy influence on meta (like many threats in gen6uu, or Msteelinx and tyrantrum in gen6ru)
  4. adamant excadrill

    adamant excadrill

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    Robopoke is ass all he uses is fuckin BP and think he's a gawd rofl
  5. adamant excadrill

    adamant excadrill

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    Tbh tho once baton pass is banned then Xurk will be down in UU and probably banned
    wheitron likes this.
  6. MaahirMomtaz12

    MaahirMomtaz12

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    If Xurkitree does drop which seems likely next month, it may be too powerful for UU due to its sheer power it can unleash. It may end up in BL.
  7. Antar

    Antar
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    k, so stats are still being regenerated, but Pokebank OU was the first to finish. As I expected, there were no changes from what I posted earlier.

    Edit: here's the updated combined usage, though:

    OU (open)
    Code:
    Combined usage for OU
     + ---- + ------------------ + ------- + 
     | Rank | Pokemon            | Percent | 
     + ---- + ------------------ + ------- + 
     | 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 46.146% |
     | 2    | Tapu Fini          | 30.565% |
     | 3    | Metagross-Mega     | 28.813% |
     | 4    | Tapu Lele          | 25.827% |
     | 5    | Greninja-Ash       | 20.216% |
     | 6    | Magearna           | 16.447% |
     | 7    | Pheromosa          | 15.666% |
     | 8    | Tapu Koko          | 15.105% |
     | 9    | Garchomp           | 13.832% |
     | 10   | Heatran            | 13.535% |
     | 11   | Ferrothorn         | 12.095% |
     | 12   | Magnezone          | 11.489% |
     | 13   | Tapu Bulu          | 10.450% |
     | 14   | Marowak-Alola      | 10.077% |
     | 15   | Excadrill          |  9.625% |
     | 16   | Dugtrio            |  9.570% |
     | 17   | Scizor-Mega        |  9.441% |
     | 18   | Toxapex            |  9.049% |
     | 19   | Celesteela         |  8.981% |
     | 20   | Skarmory           |  8.503% |
     | 21   | Greninja           |  7.948% |
     | 22   | Kartana            |  7.197% |
     | 23   | Chansey            |  7.040% |
     | 24   | Charizard-Mega-X   |  7.002% |
     | 25   | Venusaur-Mega      |  6.976% |
     | 26   | Zygarde            |  6.517% |
     | 27   | Volcarona          |  6.181% |
     | 28   | Sableye-Mega       |  6.141% |
     | 29   | Charizard-Mega-Y   |  6.068% |
     | 30   | Latios             |  6.062% |
     | 31   | Hoopa-Unbound      |  6.057% |
     | 32   | Tyranitar          |  5.594% |
     | 33   | Zapdos             |  5.577% |
     | 34   | Pinsir-Mega        |  5.479% |
     | 35   | Rotom-Wash         |  5.161% |
     | 36   | Mimikyu            |  5.154% |
     | 37   | Mamoswine          |  5.094% |
     | 38   | Nihilego           |  5.057% |
     | 39   | Manaphy            |  4.489% |
     | 40   | Buzzwole           |  4.484% |
     | 41   | Xurkitree          |  4.456% |
     | 42   | Jirachi            |  4.200% |
     | 43   | Tangrowth          |  4.186% |
     | 44   | Salamence          |  3.910% |
     | 45   | Scolipede          |  3.881% |
     | 46   | Muk-Alola          |  3.814% |
     | 47   | Alakazam-Mega      |  3.763% |
     | 48   | Gyarados-Mega      |  3.604% |
     | 49   | Pelipper           |  3.520% |
     | 50   | Clefable           |  3.383% |
     | 51   | Gengar             |  2.832% |
     | 52   | Dragonite          |  2.726% |
     | 53   | Keldeo             |  2.510% |
     | 54   | Kingdra            |  2.457% |
     | 55   | Serperior          |  2.388% |
     | 56   | Gyarados           |  2.255% |
     | 57   | Kyurem-Black       |  2.254% |
     | 58   | Amoonguss          |  2.177% |
     | 59   | Bisharp            |  2.149% |
     | 60   | Mantine            |  2.146% |
     | 61   | Azelf              |  2.069% |
     | 62   | Necrozma           |  2.023% |
     | 63   | Sharpedo-Mega      |  1.967% |
     | 64   | Tornadus-Therian   |  1.960% |
     | 65   | Porygon-Z          |  1.944% |
     | 66   | Mandibuzz          |  1.716% |
     | 67   | Hydreigon          |  1.676% |
     | 68   | Weavile            |  1.579% |
     | 69   | Hippowdon          |  1.570% |
     | 70   | Zygarde-10%        |  1.568% |
     | 71   | Quagsire           |  1.529% |
     | 72   | Shedinja           |  1.503% |
     | 73   | Alomomola          |  1.437% |
     | 74   | Breloom            |  1.384% |
     | 75   | Mew                |  1.374% |
     | 76   | Gliscor            |  1.361% |
     | 77   | Togekiss           |  1.312% |
     | 78   | Ninetales-Alola    |  1.303% |
     | 79   | Smeargle           |  1.243% |
     | 80   | Salazzle           |  1.200% |
     | 81   | Azumarill          |  1.197% |
     | 82   | Decidueye          |  1.182% |
     | 83   | Porygon2           |  1.181% |
     | 84   | Tentacruel         |  1.167% |
     | 85   | Thundurus          |  1.149% |
     | 86   | Latias             |  1.136% |
     | 87   | Thundurus-Therian  |  1.094% |
     | 88   | Terrakion          |  1.087% |
     | 89   | Starmie            |  1.081% |
     | 90   | Ditto              |  1.076% |
     | 91   | Victini            |  1.069% |
     | 92   | Araquanid          |  1.066% |
     | 93   | Seismitoad         |  1.042% |
     | 94   | Scizor             |  1.032% |
     | 95   | Golisopod          |  0.998% |
     | 96   | Bronzong           |  0.939% |
     | 97   | Primarina          |  0.914% |
     | 98   | Chandelure         |  0.904% |
     | 99   | Volcanion          |  0.904% |
     | 100  | Nidoking           |  0.772% |
     | 101  | Dhelmise           |  0.754% |
     | 102  | Espeon             |  0.730% |
     | 103  | Slowbro            |  0.683% |
     | 104  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.653% |
     | 105  | Venusaur           |  0.624% |
     | 106  | Kabutops           |  0.604% |
     | 107  | Gastrodon          |  0.599% |
     | 108  | Umbreon            |  0.587% |
     | 109  | Raikou             |  0.577% |
     | 110  | Shuckle            |  0.576% |
     | 111  | Krookodile         |  0.572% |
     | 112  | Cloyster           |  0.566% |
     | 113  | Arcanine           |  0.554% |
     | 114  | Klefki             |  0.547% |
     | 115  | Absol-Mega         |  0.544% |
     | 116  | Infernape          |  0.539% |
     | 117  | Suicune            |  0.538% |
     | 118  | Minior             |  0.533% |
     | 119  | Conkeldurr         |  0.532% |
     | 120  | Crawdaunt          |  0.527% |
     | 121  | Persian-Alola      |  0.518% |
     | 122  | Blissey            |  0.508% |
     | 123  | Staraptor          |  0.497% |
     | 124  | Hawlucha           |  0.492% |
     | 125  | Garchomp-Mega      |  0.474% |
     | 126  | Slowbro-Mega       |  0.466% |
     | 127  | Goodra             |  0.457% |
     | 128  | Alakazam           |  0.451% |
     | 129  | Aerodactyl-Mega    |  0.449% |
     | 130  | Tsareena           |  0.426% |
     | 131  | Cresselia          |  0.423% |
     | 132  | Celebi             |  0.410% |
     | 133  | Bewear             |  0.402% |
     | 134  | Darmanitan         |  0.383% |
     | 135  | Torkoal            |  0.380% |
     | 136  | Sylveon            |  0.377% |
     | 137  | Diggersby          |  0.377% |
     | 138  | Galvantula         |  0.373% |
     | 139  | Lycanroc           |  0.373% |
     | 140  | Kommo-o            |  0.368% |
     | 141  | Pyukumuku          |  0.368% |
     | 142  | Forretress         |  0.348% |
     | 143  | Talonflame         |  0.343% |
     | 144  | Ninetales          |  0.339% |
     | 145  | Silvally           |  0.338% |
     | 146  | Donphan            |  0.329% |
     | 147  | Exeggutor-Alola    |  0.291% |
     | 148  | Jolteon            |  0.282% |
     | 149  | Whimsicott         |  0.278% |
     | 150  | Entei              |  0.272% |
     | 151  | Rotom-Heat         |  0.270% |
     | 152  | Sandslash-Alola    |  0.270% |
     | 153  | Reuniclus          |  0.261% |
     | 154  | Blastoise-Mega     |  0.260% |
     | 155  | Gigalith           |  0.259% |
     | 156  | Snorlax            |  0.251% |
     | 157  | Crobat             |  0.251% |
     | 158  | Empoleon           |  0.250% |
     | 159  | Omastar            |  0.249% |
     | 160  | Flygon             |  0.248% |
     | 161  | Heracross          |  0.245% |
     | 162  | Vikavolt           |  0.244% |
     | 163  | Drampa             |  0.233% |
     | 164  | Lucario            |  0.231% |
     | 165  | Swampert           |  0.227% |
     | 166  | Metagross          |  0.221% |
     | 167  | Roserade           |  0.220% |
     | 168  | Milotic            |  0.195% |
     | 169  | Vaporeon           |  0.194% |
     | 170  | Slowking           |  0.191% |
     | 171  | Haxorus            |  0.189% |
     | 172  | Moltres            |  0.189% |
     | 173  | Xatu               |  0.184% |
     | 174  | Froslass           |  0.177% |
     | 175  | Politoed           |  0.176% |
     | 176  | Incineroar         |  0.170% |
     | 177  | Komala             |  0.166% |
     | 178  | Golem-Alola        |  0.164% |
     | 179  | Chesnaught         |  0.164% |
     | 180  | Ludicolo           |  0.163% |
     | 181  | Dodrio             |  0.158% |
     | 182  | Ribombee           |  0.158% |
     | 183  | Nidoqueen          |  0.154% |
     | 184  | Mudsdale           |  0.153% |
     | 185  | Machamp            |  0.151% |
     | 186  | Toxicroak          |  0.150% |
     | 187  | Carbink            |  0.145% |
     | 188  | Aerodactyl         |  0.143% |
     | 189  | Cofagrigus         |  0.138% |
     | 190  | Uxie               |  0.132% |
     | 191  | Crabominable       |  0.131% |
     | 192  | Wishiwashi         |  0.129% |
     | 193  | Audino             |  0.127% |
     | 194  | Electivire         |  0.123% |
     | 195  | Doublade           |  0.121% |
     | 196  | Comfey             |  0.121% |
     | 197  | Guzzlord           |  0.118% |
     | 198  | Vivillon           |  0.114% |
     | 199  | Victreebel         |  0.113% |
     | 200  | Feraligatr         |  0.113% |
     | 201  | Lanturn            |  0.111% |
     | 202  | Swellow            |  0.110% |
     | 203  | Honchkrow          |  0.108% |
     | 204  | Rhyperior          |  0.104% |
     | 205  | Poliwrath          |  0.101% |
     | 206  | Magneton           |  0.100% |
     + ---- + ------------------ + ------- + 
    
  8. wheitron

    wheitron

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    Ash Gren is gonna be OU i think, at least for now, its real good, but things like pheromosa ( breaks ofense and is shit to deal w), lele, megagross ( just coverege), regular gren, whose usage has grown up for real, hoopa U and duggy are the main metagame cancers right now. As for Landot, 50% usage '- its just insane. kingdra is a point were i am not decided, like, it is insane under rain, but now UU has got mantine, which soaks everything kingdra wants to use, as well as some good fairys. Its still real treatening tho.
  9. Leica

    Leica

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    Christ that Lando-T usage is something else.
    wheitron likes this.
  10. Mikael

    Mikael

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    My god. Can we all stop saying things like pheromosa and lele are boken??? They are clearly not. Adapt
  11. wheitron

    wheitron

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    at least suspect worthy both of them are , phero has no checks on ofense bar alolan marowak, whose has no recovery and is weak to all kinds of hazards, including weakness to SR, more than enough to wear it down coupled with uturn damage, and no scarfer can revenge kill scarf phero, and even if its not scarf, you will need a scarfer thats faster then 80 base speed at least. Lele just sets that dong terrain up ( which pairs soooo well with phero like OMG) and has insane coverege, 2HKOing the majority of the metagame with its moves. I dont see how can those things not to be at least suspected.
  12. Dakress

    Dakress

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    The thing with Pheromosa is that her usefulness heavily depends on the kind of team she's up against. While Pheromosa can easily destroy hyper offensive teams with Lele's support, it struggles against everything else. Versus bulky offense it's forced to spam U-turn all time, because failing to KO an opposite poke on the spot means she will be the one that will end up killed, and against stall only the Quiver Dance+Z-Stone set can put up a fight (unless they have unaware Clefable, otherwise that thing's a complete joke).

    Tapu Lele's perceived brokenness is a result of the early SM players having nothing in their teams that could wall the thing. Nowadays, specially defensive steel types (like Celesteela, Heatran & Jirachi) are everywhere, and as such Lele has lots of problems doing it's job, to the point it's not even S rank anymore.

    No idea why Lando-T's everywhere, but it's getting way too tiresome to see it in almost 50% of most OU teams. Maybe's because it's good walling M-Metagross? (the thing has Ice Punch, so I doubt it). Speaking of Metagross, I don't think the poke itself is broken because it has a huge 4MSS, but I do wonder why there's less stuff that forces it out or revenge kills it in the current metagame. Scarfed Heatran's still a thing, guys.

    Baton Pass is definitely getting the ban-hammer, though I'm not sure if the council's planning to outright ban the move or just allow it but without any means to boost stats (I think Dry Pass's the name for that sort of thing, if I'm not mistaken). As for Xurkitree, there's always the possibility it could end up in BL hell.
    Mikael likes this.
  13. wheitron

    wheitron

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    I just do think lele puts too much pressure alongside magnezone on many teams, and it forces you to run a specific counter to it, and even then it has the coverege or just raw power to get past them (spd rachi and celesteela are the only 100% counters, celesteela beying trapped w ease ) , idk bout BP, but personally i see it as broken. Phero is more then likely only broken with lele by its side, but that we shall see
  14. Martin

    Martin Like the hole in a doughnut
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    Mimikyu is a gimmick at best and isn't even particularly splashable; literally the only reason it is still OU is because its a fan favorite. It is nowhere near good enough to justify 3.41% usage with purely competitive reasoning--let alone more usage than actually good Pokemon like Salamence, Manaphy, Jirachi, Tangrowth Manaphy, Keldeo, Mamoswine, Amoonguss, Buzzwole and any number of other Pokemon which are actually good.
    BlueLobster, HC, JTD783 and 1 other person like this.
  15. JTD783

    JTD783

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    I agree. Gimmikyu (coining that) isn't that great since its power and speed are unimpressive by OU's standards. It's a subpar SD user that can work, but there are far better mons to build around. Trick Room access is cool but that's not a very reliable playstyle.

    Thanks for the catch on its usage; for some reason I read the percentage as higher, but 3.41 is hanging on by a thread. Because of that I agree that it will likely drop soon.

    The mons you listed merit much higher usage, and I think the ladder is catching on, at least in the case of Rachi, Tang, and Mence, which I've seen more often recently. I've seen nearly all of them more than Mimikyu actually.

    Martin I misunderstood your mention of 3.41 earlier. I somehow thought Mimikyu was sitting right on the cutoff percentage. ~5% is definitely way too high; I completely agree.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  16. Martin

    Martin Like the hole in a doughnut
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    no it's usage is a lot higher than 3.14. it has more than 5% which is actually dumb
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