Except now that you gave it adamanat/max 252 attack, you can't take a draco meteor from mence and doubtful you can handle the other attacks as easily. Plus, you definitely won't outspeed these things now, meaning you have to take two hits from whatever they're hitting you with (i.e. you're dead) before you can attack them with the "690 attack Double Edge". Congratulations you missed the whole point of the set. =/
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Introducing...Slaking
- Thread starter fastball77
- Start date
well you kind of missed the whole point of the poke to begin with
Starmie. Weavile. Ice Shard Donphan. I'm not saying your Slaking is bad, it's just very... situational. Without max attack, this Slaking is designed to be a counter, not a physical force. Pokemon which shouldn't be giving it problems will be (i.e. the aforementioned Magnezone, Metagross, basically any Steel type barring Skarm) without Earthquake.
My Gyarados/ Garchomp combination was an example (but can you honestly say it's not common for a team to have the two?) but the same principle applies. Slaking faints a dragon. A stat-upper comes in. You switch and they get a free boost. You then need a counter to whatever that pokemon is, plus their boosted stat. Truant is too bad an ability, plus the fact that you then need to switch depending on the situation.
Wouldn't Slaking also want Giga Impact over Return? You lose 10% accuracy for 48 base, which seems like a good trade when you're not running max attack.
Yeah you can't, so you can't really do anything that turn.
I would prefer to use Cresselia against those pokemon quite frankly.
I would prefer to use Cresselia against those pokemon quite frankly.
You know, max attack (460) with Return and the three elemental punches can be deadly aswell! But your set looks better. Props to you! :D
I can bet money that you got this scarf idea when I posted about this only a few days earlier. Nonetheless, I have used it on wifi and it is effective as stated.
Surely pursuit can be switched with earthquake for personal preference? Ice/Thunder punch are the only attacks necessary for the purpose being proposed. Return is obviously preferencial for stab (or giga impact, as you said). Pursuit is only really useful for Gengar/Dusknoir. Just switch depending on what you encounter more: ghosts/ steels.
I imagine this set would be effective, but for one reason, when you switch in Slacking people get complacent and do exactly what you want them to do. That said like Lee said earlier, if anyone takes a moment to stop and think why you just switched a Slacking into a setup poke they'll know something is up, at which point you might as well run CB Pursuit.
I find this Slacking is too one sided, it somewhat effectively counters (doesn't account for Intimidate and doesn't even guarantee OHKOs in some cases) the 4 Pokemon listed, but only if they have one of them, also it starts getting killed/walled by things that would have previously never bothered it much. Its very much a one-trick pony, and with a little though you'll know what its trick is ahead of time.
I find this Slacking is too one sided, it somewhat effectively counters (doesn't account for Intimidate and doesn't even guarantee OHKOs in some cases) the 4 Pokemon listed, but only if they have one of them, also it starts getting killed/walled by things that would have previously never bothered it much. Its very much a one-trick pony, and with a little though you'll know what its trick is ahead of time.
Yea, scarf is the only notable thing for this Slaking, allowing it to surprisingly revenge kill DD Gyarados, Garchomp, and Specsmence (although Jolly CBKing could beat Mence). It's not supposed to take a hit, and it needs as much attack as it could get to dish as much damage from that one selected move without any boosts. That's the point of Scarfers imo. They are already easy to wall because they are stuck to one attack, why make it worse by denying Slaking's sexy attack with only 52 Atk evs?
we've actually been using it for the last two weeks or so, and i almost shit myself when i saw you post the scarf idea on that one thread, cause we've been too lazy/busy to do the write up until now
as a reply to those who say it's too situational, yada yada. sure. it isn't extremely effective against pokemon besides the mentioned four or so. however, it has been great in taking those out. to be honest it really doesn't bother us that a lot of you think it sucks. it's been a great asset to our team and has served its purpose well. a lot of you are criticizing it saying that it can't do much, but there are 5 other pokemon on the team to take care of other things. this is not a sweeper. it is not designed to sweep teams. almost every single team has one or more of the 4 dragons mentioned, and this slaking does a better job countering them than most other things i've tried. this is not a theory or an idea. it works. it works after about 40 (probably more) battles. again, i don't care if we're the only two who use this set, but we figured that since we did the research and put the effort in, and the thing actually works, that we'd share it with the smogon community since it hasn't been mentioned for this use yet.
Yea, my bad I forgot pokemon have only one use and purpose and using variants other than the standard is not "to the point". I guess using ChainChomp or a DDmence isn't "the point" of the pokemon because thats not what they do best.
I've actually rather recently been considering using a choice-scarf slaking myself when I felt I needed a substitute for tyranitar. At first I thought CBking with pursuit, but then I noticed the speed, and noticed that my team has, oddly enough, issues with speed, and decided to look into CS-slaking. I think it's an amazing pokemon, outright. Even if you decided to make it CBslaking and just max hp (or a defensive stat...) it'd still be an extremely effective frontman/revenge killer. It can fill two roles at once, making it rather powerful. Mind you, you risk getting set up on, but you also get to destroy a possible valuable enemy poke that they didn't expect was going down soon... just make sure you never EVER use this guy against an opponent with charizard before charizard goes down. Otherwise, you fail, both as a trainer, and in the match.
*~Two cents*
*~Two cents*
we never said this was going to revolutionize the metagame. all we did was take an under used pokemon and gave it a set and spread that allows it to survive any hit from any variation of a garchomp, salamence, gyarados, or dragonite, and be able to outspeed and OHKO them back. i found that to be awesome, and when put into practice it tore shit up. to be honest i think this is slightly more groundbreaking than "chain chomp," but everyone here ate that up like it was the greatest thing to happen to pokemon since blissey. i think the element of surprise with he slaking set is slightly greater than the surprise factor in throwing draco meteor onto an otherwise mostly standard garchomp set.
Well, its certainly not "the 'ridiculous surprise' of Diamond/Pearl" by any stretch of the imgagination, but the Smogon analysis doesnt have a Choice Scarf variant of Slaking. At the very least, one should be added. This is just a pokemon that is a possible counter to some of the more difficult pokemon to counter in the game, nothing more, nothing less.
[Other Options]
<p>You can stick Choice Scarf on him if you want the extra Speed. Thunderpunch will deal the same damage to Skarmory as Fire Punch and has the added advantage of utterly destroying Gyarados. Fury Swipes is available to screw over faster Substitute users trying to shut down Slaking.</p>
oh fuck.
That said, Scarf'd Slaking is everything ever. It's still a slaking, it still hurts like a bitch, and it's still only a Choice user. The things that counter Slaking, still counter slaking. So what's the point?
STILL anything with Protect > This set. Skarmory can take this set down, getting a free roost every other turn, then sets up on phazes you.
Also, Salamence KO's with Stealth Rocks on the field, and while i'm sure you'd bring in a spinner, etc. it seems like it's not so much situational, but just too cumbersome when you could just give it a CB and hit everything with the force of a small atomic bomb, not compromise the longevity of your slaking. Seriously, if you survive the incoming Draco Meteor/Stealth Rocks, great. But then what are you to do if a Priority/Walling pokemon comes in, and renders your slaking useless?
I know you said Wish Support, but the same can be said for anything + Wish, survive the attack, get HP, kill kill kill.
EDIT: Beez, it doesnt matter if it isn't OU. It isn't OU because it isn't OVER-used. No one uses it.
Chainchomp's badass because it kills it's common counters on the switch, while this fails to do anything that hasn't been pointed out before.
@beez:
Ok, I don't mean to sound rude when I say any of this, but, first off, Slaking is not under used at all. It's actually used quite a bit.
Yeah, and throwing Choice Scarf on this guy may seem like a good idea, but unfortunately, I kinda agree with the people saying that you're not using its attack to its potential. Remember, because of truant, basically every attack it throws out needs to compensate for 2 turns. 406 attack or so is good, but Slaking needs to dish out as much damage as it can get and KO as much as it can, because even with the EVs it has, it can't repeadeatly keep on taking hits without a recovery move on it thanks to the Scarf basically preventing it from having one.
Also, you can't always expect to outspeed those 4 pokemon, not at all, especially with no speed EVs. The dragons are at a speed where they commonly have Choice Scarf as well, and they WILL be faster than your Slaking. Trust me, they do have scarves a lot.
Have you ever faced a team with Trickers or Knock Offers? Those things will cripple this Slaking, again because of no speed EVs.
Yeah, the reason people liked Chain Chomp is because Draco Meteor is an amazing move, and it gets rid of its normal counters, that's why they ate it up.
This is a good set, I'll admit that, and if it works well with your team, that's good and I'm glad you guys devised your own unique set, because that'll make you a better player.
You should really let people express their opinions though. Calling the guy an asshole is rude. Some people like the set, some people don't, that's just the way it is. Just keep using your set, it matters what you think, and obviously it's not a FACT that this works well, because people have different teams.
It probably could use a little bit of tweaking though, keep on experimenting with the EVs.
Ok, I don't mean to sound rude when I say any of this, but, first off, Slaking is not under used at all. It's actually used quite a bit.
Yeah, and throwing Choice Scarf on this guy may seem like a good idea, but unfortunately, I kinda agree with the people saying that you're not using its attack to its potential. Remember, because of truant, basically every attack it throws out needs to compensate for 2 turns. 406 attack or so is good, but Slaking needs to dish out as much damage as it can get and KO as much as it can, because even with the EVs it has, it can't repeadeatly keep on taking hits without a recovery move on it thanks to the Scarf basically preventing it from having one.
Also, you can't always expect to outspeed those 4 pokemon, not at all, especially with no speed EVs. The dragons are at a speed where they commonly have Choice Scarf as well, and they WILL be faster than your Slaking. Trust me, they do have scarves a lot.
Have you ever faced a team with Trickers or Knock Offers? Those things will cripple this Slaking, again because of no speed EVs.
Yeah, the reason people liked Chain Chomp is because Draco Meteor is an amazing move, and it gets rid of its normal counters, that's why they ate it up.
This is a good set, I'll admit that, and if it works well with your team, that's good and I'm glad you guys devised your own unique set, because that'll make you a better player.
You should really let people express their opinions though. Calling the guy an asshole is rude. Some people like the set, some people don't, that's just the way it is. Just keep using your set, it matters what you think, and obviously it's not a FACT that this works well, because people have different teams.
It probably could use a little bit of tweaking though, keep on experimenting with the EVs.
I deleted the rampant flamebait in this thread. That said:
I like the idea.
Slaking's attack is already beefy enough, I think having some speed would do him a bit more justice than Choice Band. What I'd like to see is in the first/second post some more calculations with Pursuit; I think they are a bit more important than the other calculations. I still wouldn't tote it around as a "counter" to Salamence/Garchomp/etc; most Pokemon with scarf and an ice attack can be considered a counter under that loose definition. Unfortunately, Slaking takes at most 2 hits before dying from all of the Pokemon...
Another note: beez, learn to take criticism a little more gracefully... while some of the flamebait that I deleted was uncalled for, calling us "jokes" is not a good idea.
edit: I'm serious. No more flamebait.
I like the idea.
Slaking's attack is already beefy enough, I think having some speed would do him a bit more justice than Choice Band. What I'd like to see is in the first/second post some more calculations with Pursuit; I think they are a bit more important than the other calculations. I still wouldn't tote it around as a "counter" to Salamence/Garchomp/etc; most Pokemon with scarf and an ice attack can be considered a counter under that loose definition. Unfortunately, Slaking takes at most 2 hits before dying from all of the Pokemon...
Another note: beez, learn to take criticism a little more gracefully... while some of the flamebait that I deleted was uncalled for, calling us "jokes" is not a good idea.
edit: I'm serious. No more flamebait.
Who came up with a set? It is four obvious moves...unless you mean the EV spread? That one looks like Bologo's design to me, so why are you so vigorously defending it?beez said:
It probably had something to do with this.
Whoa whoa, hold up for a minute there. Takes out four of the "strongest and most commonly used pokemon"? How does it manage this one again? This is such an obviously pressing question, that I feel a scenario is in order.
Surgo sent out Gyarados!
Beez used (something)
---
Gyarados used Dragon Dance!
Beez sent out Slaking!
---
Surgo sent out (counter)
Slaking did absolutely nothing!
But what is (counter)? Well, we obviously know Skarmory counters every last Slaking set, even the CB set, so let's just forget about that one right now. So what else do we have? How about Cresselia?
Well, choice band Slaking can overcome Cresselia! With maximum attack, that is. But let's see what "Arthur the Dragon Slayer" can do, shall we?
405 attack vs. 303 defense, 102 power, times 1.50: 147 - 174 (target hp: 381 - 444)
Well that sure is...impressive. Against a minimum defense Cresselia, nonetheless. The calculation against maximum defense is just embarassing, so we'll leave it out of the post.
"But Cresselia is a defensive beast, so that's not fair!" I hear you shout. Well, how about some more common pokemon that would be obvious switch-ins on Slaking? How about Donphan? That should be a good target, it doesn't even have a 50% recovery move...
405 attack vs. 372 defense, 102 power, times 1.50: 120 - 142 (target hp: 321 - 384)
Donphan must truly be reeling after that hit.
If you haven't caught on to what I'm getting at, I'll explain it out for you. "takes out 4 of the strongest and most commonly used pokemon" doesn't mean anything. Choice Band Slaking not only does the same thing already, but it does it better. Why does it do it better? Because it actually has a chance when it comes to the inevitable, the inevitable common counters to Slaking, the very reason that Slaking is borderline to begin with. This does nothing the regular Choice Band set is incapable of except manage to lose against all sort of additional pokemon that Slaking would normally have a chance against. This includes Tyranitar (absolutely no way to hit it), Cresselia (Choice Band gives it a solid 50% hit), Donphan (see Cresselia), and anything less defensive than these. So bloody what if it can go first against Garchomp? Slaking can survive a Swords Dance, Life Orb Earthquake from a jolly Garchomp anyway, and can actually be somewhat threatening against the rest of the team members.
I won't even get in to that complete bullshit about me praising Chain Chomp as "god's greatest creation". I would advise you not to attempt to call me a "joke" when trying to bring criticism to a set in the future. If you can argue your piece against me successfully, I'll respect you for it and that's what I expect you to actually do. If you resort to lashing out like that when someone brings up criticism, well, I most certainly will not.