Is Toxic Spikes Worth It In Standard OU?

[Klaus]

I'm going with the others who say Toxic Spikes is valuable in certain situations.

Toxic spikes might not hit alot of OU pokemon but say if you have a sweeper that can be countered completely by bulky grounded types, (Empoleon is a prime example) then yes, Toxic spikes make their pokelife alot easier.

Or in even simpler terms

Sweepers are stopped by counters.

Certain counters are stopped by toxic spikes.

Act accordingly to your team.

 

[RegalStar]

I'm going with the others who say Toxic Spikes is valuable in certain situations.

Toxic spikes might not hit alot of OU pokemon but say if you have a sweeper that can be countered completely by bulky grounded types, (Empoleon is a prime example) then yes, Toxic spikes make their pokelife alot easier.

Or in even simpler terms

Sweepers are stopped by counters.

Certain counters are stopped by toxic spikes.

Act accordingly to your team.

I think bulky waters are more what you're looking for. Bulky ground gets crippled too, but Empoleon tends to not have trouble with them.

 

[Stellar]

He meant grounded as in not levitating.

 

[yond]

I think you forgot some part of your post "as you can tell there are"

But Toxic Spikes CAN be worth it on OU depending on your strategy. In old DP, they were a valuable check against Garchomp.

Even now however, they are a valuable tool for specially offensive teams. Toxic Spikes help deal with Blissey, so Pokemon like Life Orb Starmie, Sub Agility Petaya Empoleon, Sub Charge Rotom, and Sub CM Jirachi have a lot easier time sweeping.

Hitting Swampert and Hippowdon is also helpful for Rotom and Jirachi.

Pokemon that are susceptible to Toxic Spikes in OU:

Blissey
Celebi
Dusknoir
Electivire
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jolteon
Kingdra
Machamp
Mamoswine
Porygon-Z
Snorlax
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tyranitar
Vaporeon
Weavile

Notable Pokemon in bold.

Yeah, I know that's not a lot, but what it is is notable.

Hippowdon / Blissey / Celebi / Dusknoir / Swampert / Vaporeon

These Pokemon are potent defensive threats, and anything you can do to make them last not quite as long. This is especially notable for Empoleon, as Blissey, Celebi, and Vaporeon are three of Empoleon's biggest enemies.

Infernape / Machamp / Tyranitar

These might not be as immediately important, but if you're running stall, this is HUGE. When you've got one of these monstrous bastards beating down your door, the residual and constant damage from Toxic Spikes is priceless. Often, only having one layer down against these threats is more important than having more than one, as having a flat 12% damage racking up against the foe every turn is HUGE against opponents like Infernape, which take massive damage per turn between Sandstorm, Life Orb, and Toxic, as well as SR and Spikes. Machamp is also big, as SubChamp is vicious, and being able to beat it with Toxic Spike support can be priceless. Same with stuff like CB Tyranitar, which finds itself losing 44-50% of its HP after switching into Spikes / SR / Toxic just *once*.

Toxic Spikes is an amazing tool for both stall and offense to quell the potency of offensive and defensive threats, and it should never be underestimated. It might be completely useless against some teams, but against the things that are susceptible to it, it's second to none.

Natural Cure doesn't mean anything at all. Switch in and you get poisoned anyways, Natural Cure might as well be any other ability for all that it matters when you get poisoned every single time on the switch in.

These Sum up all my ideas pretty well.

I would also like to mention that as for the abilities you have mentioned, save levitate, guts on common OU threats (i.e machamp) and immunity on snorlax are rarely run compared to the counter parts no guard and thick fat respectively.
In my own experiences toxic spikes have proven useful in any stall outs and really hits pokemon big threats to my teams ,that Seven Deadly Sins Bolded above, hard.
Not to mention they only take a turn to set up haha.

 

[Snorlaxe]

Toxic Spikes can certainly be worthwhile, it just depends on the kind of team that you are running. If you are running something like an Empoleon team, then Toxic Spikes are extremely important in aiding Empoleon's battle against bulky waters. If you are using a team with a lot of Pokemon who utilize moves like Curse or Calm Mind (i.e. slower setup moves) such as Swampert and Jirachi, then they are also extremely valuable additions to the team. While they can just be soaked up by poison types there are extremely little poison types in OU, and as such it can never hurt to put them down. Besides, if you are using a Pokemon like Smeargle or Roserade to lay them then it isn't difficult; just send the opposing Pokemon to sleep and then stack up the Toxic Spikes. Besides, you can't count out the use of UU and NU Pokemon in OU, and quite a few Pokemon are vulnerable to Toxic Spikes down there.

 

[EvilMario]

I just wanted to say, Drapion is a good lead Toxic Spiker in OU. He has good speed, a few key resistances, and can be EV'ed to not be 2HKO by plenty of Earthquakes. He himself, running a decent 95 base speed can Taunt other leads as well. He himself can absorb Toxic Spikes, and Rotom can not easily switch into his STAB Crunch.

 

[Kare]

It's just 2 wasted turns. 2 of the 11 most used pokemons is immune. You don't even need Rapid Spin to get rid of it. Poison pokemon does it too.

 

[rickyriffle]

toxic spikes are good for bulky pokemon and yes many do levitate but atleast your able to poison at least 1 pokemon. By one i believe thats good, and usually its a sweeper poke and/or a wall, because not many walls levitate out in the game. It also makes your opponents think twice from sending in a pokemon that isn't immune to toxic!

 

[DeadDream829]

Toxic Spikes are worth it on teams that can stall, and not worth it on teams who try to butcher their opponents into a fountain of flesh and blood.
Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Ero-Sennin]

Toxic Spikes could be really worth it... and sometimes very unpleasant, like Guts pokes could take advantage of that and have a nice sweep if your not prepared or a poison type could switch in and absorb your spikes. And has an immunity against flying, steel type and those levitate pokes. But it does have some advantage it could damage sweepers or walls that may cause problems for them.

 

[EeveeTrainer]

Random question: is Skarmory immune to Toxic Spikes because it's a Steel type or because it's a Flying type? (I know 'both', but which primarily?)

 

[Potential]

Random question: is Skarmory immune to Toxic Spikes because it's a Steel type or because it's a Flying type? (I know 'both', but which primarily?)

Intuitively, I'd expect primarily because of Flying, as Crobat's/Gengar's Flying/Levitate overrides the Toxic Spikes absorption.

Anyway, on topic, I think I agree with the general consensus that one layer is good against more offensive teams and also teams that rely on sweepers that usually almost get OHKO's, like for Lucario on Hippowdon (maybe that's not a great example, but...) and that 2 layers is good against stall. Also, over 2 turns (often effectively 1, plus the switch in), Toxic Spikes outdamages Stealth Rock most of the time on non-immune Pokémon. It's really great on cutting sweeps from things like Infernape, too.

 

[Smith]

Despite not being a very good battler, I'll give my two cents:
Toxic Spikes are not worth it, in the long run.
What Pokemon are always in OU? Steels (immune), Dragons (all of which are immune save Kingdra(correct me if I'm wrong)), Gyrados, Breloom... there just doesn't seem to be a point. If Blissey and Vaporeon are really that bad, carry a counter, espiecally for Blissey, who can be easily destroyed by Lucario, Infernape, and countless other physical sweepers. Granted, Vaporeon is harder to counter than Blissey, but really other bulky waters counter it well- in fact, if you find Vaporeon hard to counter, maybe you should use one, and just carry toxic! In reality, Toxic Spikes are really outclassed by spikes and stealth rock.

 

[frogbandit]

Despite not being a very good battler, I'll give my two cents:
Toxic Spikes are not worth it, in the long run.
What Pokemon are always in OU? Steels (immune), Dragons (all of which are immune save Kingdra(correct me if I'm wrong)), Gyrados, Breloom... there just doesn't seem to be a point. If Blissey and Vaporeon are really that bad, carry a counter, espiecally for Blissey, who can be easily destroyed by Lucario, Infernape, and countless other physical sweepers. Granted, Vaporeon is harder to counter than Blissey, but really other bulky waters counter it well- in fact, if you find Vaporeon hard to counter, maybe you should use one, and just carry toxic! In reality, Toxic Spikes are really outclassed by spikes and stealth rock.

Flygon too, don't forget him.

Yes, Infernape and Lucario can stop Blissey easily by itself, but they need something to take out bulky waters like Vaporeon and Swampert. Without Toxic spikes or a toxic at all, its tough to take down a pokemon like Vaporeon, who has toxic itself, in one hit, or Swampert if you don't have a powerful grass move. Toxic spikes make one of the best counters for such bulky waters and can really mean the difference between a successful sweep and being stopped in your tracks (it really helps Empoleon too)

In my opinion, it is not a waste of turns and a slot to put a lead like Roserade on a team. Vaporeon and Swampert are still prime defensive threats in OU, and one of the best ways to counter them are with Toxic spikes.

 

[DarkVortex]

It largely depends on how many Pokemon on your opponent's team that can resist toxic spikes. Steels messing up your toxic spikes? Bring Magnezone. Dragons? Bring Weavile or other dragon killers.

 

[animenagai]

Basically, toxic spikes are only worth it if you build your team around it (or around a strategy with t-spikes being a vital part of it).

Purple Weezing's RMT a while back was a fine example of this.

 

[Purple Wobbuffet]

If you have a SD Heracross, you punish stall teams for using Toxic Spikes. After Guts and SD you 2HKO every common member of stall. You outspeed most of them too.

 

[malomyotismon]

well personally i think it can help stall deal with bulky grounded pokemon through it's not essetial but making infernapes life shorter through poison sand storm + his own life orb damage is never a bad thing hurting machamp who rarely carrys guts as an ability is also very useful. things like empoleon that have a hard time with bulky waters such as vaporeon and the no 1 special wall blissey which toxic spkes helps greatly with. To be honest it really depeneds on a teams needs.

 

[Hood Dream]

of course it's useful, i mean, you still have the vaporeon's and the swamperts and blisseys and TS could be useful if you want to stall a team out, Or help a certain sweeper sweep with TS on the field, like jirachi.

 

[Age of Kings]

I only run Toxic Spikes if I'm playing stall but when I do, I typically set up one layer of TS from Forretress because it is so effective in crippling the things it does hit, especially Blissey. Sometimes you'll see offensive teams where everything either levitates or is immune to it making the effort worthless but more often than not I end up badly crippling a few key members of the enemy team who would otherwise run me over.

 

[Despotar]

With the right team,
it can be used well.
For intense, the team of torment.
It pulls it off well, using TS along with torment tran,
their are many possible combo's like that.

 

[Rayquaza2233]

Well, look at it the other way. The other person HAS a poison type Pokemon and you have toxic spikes out. Use it to lure in a poison type switch that you can set up on.

 

[Mattman324]

It's just 2 wasted turns. 2 of the 11 most used pokemons is immune. You don't even need Rapid Spin to get rid of it. Poison pokemon does it too.

Except that the most used pokemon who can absorb T-Spikes are Roserade (at 40) and Tentacruel (at 41). After that, it's Venusaur (at 83).

Nope, I'd say T-Spikes have uses. Also, it would be nice to note that certain pokemon (like Empoleon) benifit from having Toxic Spikes A LOT.

 

[3v3rnoob]

From what I can tell, toxic spikes is indeed worth the resources required to set them up if you use a stall team that needs protection from the sweepers that they provide protection from. In the end, if you have a reliable way to deal with these threats anyway (and let's face it, all successful teams do), then you don't need them and shouldn't use them. Period. However if you're going to use them to deal with the common threats, then by all means, I'm not going to criticize. But good luck setting them up against me... heh heh.

 

[skorpion123]

Toxic spikes is the best move in the game if your are fighting against "
the right team" . Stealth rock of course it's better because it's much more reliable.

Anyway Toxic Spikes is a great move.