Doesn't really matter as +2 Return OHKO's it anyway (at least I'm pretty sure)
Seismic toss can be ok though. Not type best move on Mega kang tbh.
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Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]
- Thread starter McMeghan
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Seismic toss can be ok though. Not type best move on Mega kang tbh.
If ANYTHING past Mega-Pinsir is even THOUGHT of for a ban, I think I would laugh. M-Mawile, while powerful is really predictable and HAS to rely on Sucker Punch due to atrocious speed. I don't know about Lucario or Pinsir, but both of these guys have a lot more weaknesses that can be exploited and have defense issues. It just seems easier to deal with competitively than M-Kanga. At least right now.
I'm sorry but I just don't see it. Because I've seen a fair share of weaker EQ do 30% to him in shield form. Idk what EQs you mean but until I see more proof (and that's not what this post is for) I can't stand by that. Not to mention anyone in their right mind knows that most Aegislash players do not attack first. They set up. Kangaskhan can play to that knowledge but not with Sucker Punch.
It can go both ways the way that I see it, and the way other's calculations suggest. Aegislash is no hard counter but he is a good contender.
Seismic Toss is unique in that it requires no set-up and no investment while still maintaining enough power to 2HKO 90% of the metagame. This frees up moveslots that can be used for Wish/Protect, providing superb team support and ability to ignore WoW and invest heavily in bulk. It's not just about power.
If you honestly believe that just any Mega can be banned you clearly haven't a clue as to what and why a Ban List is what it is.
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 330-388 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Over 50% of the time, yes it does.
The SD build has mostly been abandoned due to EQ eating him alive. I have seen Excadrill's hammer Aegislash HARD in Shield form alone. Don't get me started on what happens if hit by Diggersby, Garchomp, and others of similar threat level.
Wow seismic toss sounds interesting!
EQ from diggersby is OHKO,btw
No it isn't. It can't SAFELY SWITCH IN on mega kang 100% of the time and risks taking alot of damage from EQ, so actually. It's not a counter, not even a cheack. Do you even know what a counter is?
EQ from diggersby is OHKO,btw
Base-Blaziken is in Ubers, let alone his Mega form... So... no.
I would tend to put those pokemon as harder hitters with EQ. Sure, Parental Bond. But in the end all that is, is a Choice boost, which all those pokemon could carry as items with higher attack stats for EQ. Which again, is not what this thread is about.
Ugh, choosing a poke to send in against Khan is like...is like...
choosing which of your kids to push in front of a train while they're all staring at you with a
face and saying "We love you no matter what you do."
choosing which of your kids to push in front of a train while they're all staring at you with a
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One thing that really needs to be understood about Mega-Evolution Pokemon is that while they get major stat boosts, this is supposed to be offset by the fact that they cannot run an item.
However, Mega-Kangaskhan has an ability that essentially gives it a Choice Band boost with the ability to break Subs/Sashes and switch moves. Mega-Gengar got Shadow Tag and +40 Base SpA and +20 Base Speed. The combination of the very increased stats and extremely good abilities, and the ability to centralize the metagame is why they are being considered for quick-bans. I'm pretty sure a lot of us are sick of hearing that Smogon is discriminating against Mega-Evos. We're not. We're trying to create a diverse, healthy metagame. If that means we have to remove some snazzy new additions like Mega-Evolutions, then that is what must be done.
However, Mega-Kangaskhan has an ability that essentially gives it a Choice Band boost with the ability to break Subs/Sashes and switch moves. Mega-Gengar got Shadow Tag and +40 Base SpA and +20 Base Speed. The combination of the very increased stats and extremely good abilities, and the ability to centralize the metagame is why they are being considered for quick-bans. I'm pretty sure a lot of us are sick of hearing that Smogon is discriminating against Mega-Evos. We're not. We're trying to create a diverse, healthy metagame. If that means we have to remove some snazzy new additions like Mega-Evolutions, then that is what must be done.
My god... that is horrifically dark, dude. XDUgh, choosing a poke to send in against Khan is like...is like...
choosing which of your kids to push in front of train while they're all staring at you with aface and saying "We love you no matter what you do."
well,I was unaware of this, I don't really use him and I still can't find the rules around here, though the admin here keeps telling me to look at them
Blaziken itself already got quick-banned. So Mega-Blaziken is also banned. Again, try again.
No kidding. When did I ever say it was a check? Or a counter? And even if I did I said it wasn't in my last few posts. I know Diggersby is a OHKO, and I know how he eats Aegislash for breakfast. But again, this is about Kangaskhan-M. Lmao I didn't start the Aegislash thing to talk strictly about him.
Here you go: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-xy-ou-banlist.3491371/
At the very least, give that a read.
Always choose the middle child.Ugh, choosing a poke to send in against Khan is like...is like...
choosing which of your kids to push in front of train while they're all staring at you with aface and saying "We love you no matter what you do."
Well unfortunately, that's what it's like for me at least.
Vaporeon is usually crying and saying "B-But I can provide wish support!"
However, I just keep silent and pat his head.
http://www.smogon.com/bw/banlist/
These are the banned abilities and ban clauses from Gen 5. None of these changed between Gen V and Gen VI, so add this with the XY Banlist.
You did say it was a "contender" actually And asked for EQ that hurt it. I provided the second know and proved Aegi is no counter
It's clear that the pro ban issue has already won. Mega kang should, and will, be banned.
there's been discussions about seismic toss being used on her and i just gave the magic HP number to survive 2 seismic tosses, there are only 155 pokemon who can survive it if they invest EVs into health and only 13 pokemon who need no investment to survive a 2HKO, oh and because of this she can run a wonderful set like
wish/protect/seismic toss/crunch
or you know, something like
fire blast/ice beam/wish/seismic toss
since she can run a special set better than starmie can, or you know what, just for schnitzandgiggles
work up/return/fire blast/ice beam
how about boosting both attacks and hitting from both sides of the spectrum, only jellicent, chandelure, tyranitar, and heatran can survive a 2HKO and actually do something back after she gets a work up off, yes this has more counters than her regular set but this set doesn't have to worry about burns anymore as he 2HKOs all ghost pokemon that aren't the 2 mentioned before
no, these aren't as good as the godly set of PuP/return/sucker punch/filler but seriously, the fact that even if you were to ban move after move on him just to keep him OU and see that he can adapt and still be a fucking monster, then it needs to be banned, i don't see any way around it, you basically can hope and pray if people get a chance to experiment with parental bond on him but there is one thing i have to say
thank fucking arceus she didn't get super fang, she'd probably be the first pokemon to be banned from ubers
wish/protect/seismic toss/crunch
or you know, something like
fire blast/ice beam/wish/seismic toss
since she can run a special set better than starmie can, or you know what, just for schnitzandgiggles
work up/return/fire blast/ice beam
how about boosting both attacks and hitting from both sides of the spectrum, only jellicent, chandelure, tyranitar, and heatran can survive a 2HKO and actually do something back after she gets a work up off, yes this has more counters than her regular set but this set doesn't have to worry about burns anymore as he 2HKOs all ghost pokemon that aren't the 2 mentioned before
no, these aren't as good as the godly set of PuP/return/sucker punch/filler but seriously, the fact that even if you were to ban move after move on him just to keep him OU and see that he can adapt and still be a fucking monster, then it needs to be banned, i don't see any way around it, you basically can hope and pray if people get a chance to experiment with parental bond on him but there is one thing i have to say
thank fucking arceus she didn't get super fang, she'd probably be the first pokemon to be banned from ubers
I personally believe it to be unwise to come to a conclusion until Pokebank comes out simply because there are Pokemon that will trouble Mega Kangaskhan that are not available yet, namely Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Keldeo.
Mega Kangaskan dares not challenge Terrakion head on once its in; I really think that it'll have a hard time surviving a LO or CB boosted Close Combat while being outran. The only thing it can do once Terrakion is in is Sucker Punch, which would give it +2 attack and put your team at serious risk of being swept.
Keldeo is in a similar boat, of course not getting +2 to its main attacking moves, but still threatening Kangaskan with a powerful Secret Sword. We've seen how hard Specs Keldeo hits; easily OHKOing naturally bulky Pokemon such as Black Kyurem who sports better bulk than Mega Kangaskhan.
In present play faster and Prankster Pokemon carrying Will-O-Wisp are, in my experience, proving to be a serious pain the tail for Mega Kangaskhan with Prankster Sableye, Gengar, and Delphox being examples. Gengar gets the most credit here, as he is immune to Mega Kangaskhan's Earthquake, Return, Double-Edge, and Power-Up Punch making his only real vulnerability to Sucker Punch(or the rare Crunch, but I believe Sucker Punch to be the superior option so as to not be complete prey to Choice Scarf users) which basically guarantees him to be a safe switch in. I have seen very few Gengars running Will-O-Wisp since he gained access to it, but I have always believed it to be a very solid option for him. One can argue that it is only one Pokemon that has a safe switch in to Kangaskhan, but Gengar is and always has been used by loads of people from the days of R/B/Y and he can fit on to basically any team effectively especially now that he has access to Dazzling Gleam to give him a reliable option over HP Ice to deal with Dragon types, he has gained even more versatility and unpredictability
Although one issue I foresee is that Pokebank will allow Mega Kangaskhan access to Seismic Toss, previously only available from FR/LG tutors. This would allow an EV spread of nothing but bulk and allow him to still fire off a Seismic toss for 200 damage, guaranteeing 2HKOes on the vast majority of the tier with only the beefiest Pokemon surviving with Black Kyurem with some HP investment being a notable example that would survive. Other notable moves that it will gain access to being Aqua Tail, elemental punches, Drain Punch, and Low Kick.
In the end, my take on the matter is to wait until extensive testing in Pokebank OU has been conducted though I personally believe him to be completely manageable due to his low speed tier and having to rely on Sucker Punch for a priority move when there are faster users of Will-O-Wisp running around, as well as Prankster users.
I realize that probably most, if not all, of what I have said has been discussed/posted already, but I merely wanted to give my analysis to it :)
Mega Kangaskan dares not challenge Terrakion head on once its in; I really think that it'll have a hard time surviving a LO or CB boosted Close Combat while being outran. The only thing it can do once Terrakion is in is Sucker Punch, which would give it +2 attack and put your team at serious risk of being swept.
Keldeo is in a similar boat, of course not getting +2 to its main attacking moves, but still threatening Kangaskan with a powerful Secret Sword. We've seen how hard Specs Keldeo hits; easily OHKOing naturally bulky Pokemon such as Black Kyurem who sports better bulk than Mega Kangaskhan.
In present play faster and Prankster Pokemon carrying Will-O-Wisp are, in my experience, proving to be a serious pain the tail for Mega Kangaskhan with Prankster Sableye, Gengar, and Delphox being examples. Gengar gets the most credit here, as he is immune to Mega Kangaskhan's Earthquake, Return, Double-Edge, and Power-Up Punch making his only real vulnerability to Sucker Punch(or the rare Crunch, but I believe Sucker Punch to be the superior option so as to not be complete prey to Choice Scarf users) which basically guarantees him to be a safe switch in. I have seen very few Gengars running Will-O-Wisp since he gained access to it, but I have always believed it to be a very solid option for him. One can argue that it is only one Pokemon that has a safe switch in to Kangaskhan, but Gengar is and always has been used by loads of people from the days of R/B/Y and he can fit on to basically any team effectively especially now that he has access to Dazzling Gleam to give him a reliable option over HP Ice to deal with Dragon types, he has gained even more versatility and unpredictability
Although one issue I foresee is that Pokebank will allow Mega Kangaskhan access to Seismic Toss, previously only available from FR/LG tutors. This would allow an EV spread of nothing but bulk and allow him to still fire off a Seismic toss for 200 damage, guaranteeing 2HKOes on the vast majority of the tier with only the beefiest Pokemon surviving with Black Kyurem with some HP investment being a notable example that would survive. Other notable moves that it will gain access to being Aqua Tail, elemental punches, Drain Punch, and Low Kick.
In the end, my take on the matter is to wait until extensive testing in Pokebank OU has been conducted though I personally believe him to be completely manageable due to his low speed tier and having to rely on Sucker Punch for a priority move when there are faster users of Will-O-Wisp running around, as well as Prankster users.
I realize that probably most, if not all, of what I have said has been discussed/posted already, but I merely wanted to give my analysis to it :)
+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Mega Garchomp: 393-463 (110 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dragon Tail has negative priority, so that won't work. Plus, it's slower than Mega-Khan anyway (It loses 10 base speed when Mega-Evolving).
This calc uses Jolly Mega-Khan.
+2 252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 315-372 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(315, 319, 322, 327, 330, 334, 337, 342, 345, 349, 352, 357, 360, 364, 367, 372)
glhf trying to pull it off a second time
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