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Killer Moth

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by DarkBlazeR, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    387

    Killer Moth

    Introduction

    Hello.

    It would probably be a good idea if I introduce myself before coming on to the focal point of this thread; the team. I'm DarkBlazeR, often simply going by Blaze. I've been playing Pokemon competitively ever since the beginning of Gen 4, although have never really made an effort to get myself known, instead preferring to casually play ShoddyBattle once in a while. I did quit Pokemon for some time towards the beginning of the HGSS era, although in recent months I've got back into battling and realised what I loved about it in the first place.

    I've made at least 20 new teams for the BW metagame, and this just so happens to be my most successful, even if not necessairly the best. Therefore, I feel this would be the most appropriate for a RMT thread. I find this team to be somewhat more offensive than my past efforts. I used to always run balanced teams with FWG cores in DP. This team has therefore felt quite fresh for me when battling with it. Whilst not every pokemon on my team is designed to sweep, each member contributes to the team's in an almost entirely offensive manner.

    The ultimate goal of this team is to remove Volcarona's counters, allowing it to sweep unhindered. Why Volcarona? Simply put, it's by far my favourite new Pokemon from BW. This freaking bug will kick your ass through a combination of Quiver Dance and its surprisingly decent STAB combination. Even after just one QD, it becomes extremely dangerous. Out of all the metagame's top sweepers, I've swept more teams with Volcarona than any other. Its Stealth Rock weakness is the only thing keeping from being Uber in my opinion.

    So far, this team has done quite well in the Pokemon Online Official Server, peaking at #5 and comfortably keeping me within the top 100 on a number of alts. Feel free to try it for yourself if you wish. Without further ado, lets get started!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The Team

    [​IMG]
    Roserade (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Roserade occupies the "lead" slot for this team. I loved using it in DP and still continue to do so into BW. The ability to instantly cripple a Pokemon on the opponent's team with Sleep Powder is amazing for any team, but is particularly useful for this team as it means one less Pokemon that could threaten Volcarona. Toxic Spikes are incredibly useful too, as it makes Blissey's job of walling Volcarona nearly impossible. It also helps with wearing down bulky Waters such as Quagsire and Jellicent. Thanks to Focus Sash, Roserade is guarenteed at least one layer of Toxic Spikes before it goes down (unless it got Taunted), which is often enough to make all the difference. Whilst often Roserade's sole job in a match is to get Toxic Spikes up, it still isn't a slouch when it comes to dealing damage either. Leaf Storm hits very hard coming from a base 125 Sp. Attack, taking out anything that doesn't resist it or isn't named Blissey. Hidden Power [Fire] allows Roserade to hurt other Grass types and Steel types, in particular Scizor and Ferrothorn. Whilst these two are setup fodder for Volcarona, they can in the long run be irritating for the rest of the team, through U-Turn spamming and spike laying. Roserade, being a Poison type, can also absorb enemy Toxic Spikes without needing to Rapid Spin them with Starmie, although with ChestoRest on Volcarona it's not really necessary.

    Possible set adjustments: May switch HP [Fire] to HP [Ice], as having another way of killing Dragonite is always a plus.

    [​IMG]
    Volcarona (F) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fiery Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Rest

    The star err... moth of the the team! As mentioned prior, Volcarona is the focal point of this team. In about 90% of the matches I won, Volcarona was the one to finish off the opponent's team. I often lose if Volcarona somehow manages to die prematurely, so it's important that I play very carefully with it, and only bring it out when the time is exactly right. However, on a positive note, generally once I've set up at least one Quiver Dance, it's an almost guarenteed victory for me. The opponent will have lost all their checks to Volcarona before it makes an appearance, so assuming this happens according to plan, there's little the opponent can do to stop a clean sweep. I chose to use ChestoRest over a 3 attack set because if for whatever reason I fail to spin away the opponent's entry hazards, Volcarona still has a fighting chance to set up Quiver Dances. The rest of my team also covers what HP [Ground] would be used for. After several QDs, it doesn't usually matter if the attack is resisted anyway. The Speed EVs allow Volcarona to outspeed Modest Scarf Rotom-W after one QD.

    Possible set adjustments: Fire Blast over Fiery Dance, but I prefer having 100% accuracy, and the difference in power will be nominal after its got some QDs under its belt.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Grass Knot
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Starmie plays the crucial role of my Rapid Spinner. This is absolutely necessary if Volcarona is going to pull off a sweep, as even with ChestoRest at its disposal, SR is going to have an adverse effect on its ability to sweep. Thankfully, Starmie does all in its power to prevent that from happening. Unlike many other spinners, Starmie has enough offensive presence to dissuade spin blockers from coming in and having a field day. The two most common spin blockers in OU are Gengar and Jellicent, and both are 2HKOd by Hydro Pump/Grass Knot respectively. I ran Thunderbolt at first but I later realised Grass Knot is (suprisingly!) a 100 BP move when used on Jellicent, yet also provides additional coverage against Swampert, Quagsire and Gastrodon if Roserade bites the dust, despite Grass Knot only being a measly 60 BP move on the latter two. Recover allows Starmie to heal from past assaults so it can Rapid Spin again in the future.

    Possible set adjustments: Ice Beam instead Recover since being Dragonite bait sucks. It really is that annoying! Either that, or I'll keep Recover and run Life Orb.

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Reversal

    Dugtrio has a very specific role on this team, which is to trap and kill things that threaten Volcarona. The three most significant examples are Terrakion, Infernape and Heatran; Dugtrio outspeeds and OHKOs all three of them. In this metagame, at least one of these three Pokemon is present on most teams, so more often than not Dugtrio executes a job well done. As well as trapping these threats, it also provides a fairly decent user of Stealth Rock, which is vital on any team unless you want to get swept by Dragonite. It also, ironically, one of my best defenses against enemy Volcarona, whom my team is very weak too. The moves are standard and relatively obvious as to why I chose them; Stone Edge allows it to trap and kill enemy Volcarona, and Reversal allows it to abuse its Focus Sash; doing some decent damage in the progress.

    Possible set adjustments: Sucker Punch over Stone Edge.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Quick Attack

    Scizor is mostly here to soften the opponent's team enough so they're in KO range for Volcarona. Alongside Rotom-W, it forms a clichéd, yet very effective offensive core with Volt/Turn. I felt as if this team was becoming too specially based, so I added a strong physical attacker to even things up a bit. It also provides the team with an obligatory Dragon resistance, in which no team should find themselves without. CB Bullet Punch hurts a hell of a lot, and provides reliable priority to keep me safe from weakened setup sweepers. It also provides another answer to Terrakion should I need it, and in tandem with HP [Ice] from Rotom-W, allows me to defeat Dragonite with the exception of that fucking evil SubDDRoost set. Superpower wrecks Steels and Blissey, and Quick Attack allows me to revenge kill Gyarados, whom Volcarona hates.

    Possible set adjustments: Pursuit over Quick Attack so I can revenge kill Specs Latios.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick

    Rotom-W is Scizor's partnet in crime, forming the famous ScRotom combination (lol). Choice Scarf allows it to function as an efficient revenge killer to a myriad of threats including but not limited to: Dragonite, Landorus and Gyarados. Trick allows Rotom to completely cripple particular Pokemon, most notably special walls such as Blissey, as well as certain setup sweepers such as CM Reuniclus. Resistance-wise, it provides me with an ever useful Ground immunity as well as a third Water resistance. I generally spam Volt Switch, unless I predict a Ground switch-in, in which case I will use Hydro Pump. U-Turn from Scizor and Volt Switch from Rotom also provide me with a safe way of getting Volcarona into the battlefield when the stage is set for victory.

    Possible set adjustments: Not really. Maybe Will-o-Wisp over Trick, but that's unlikely. Possibly Timid over Modest to deal with the Jolly Dragonites I've seen seeing lately, but the power drop is unsettling.

    Conclusion

    Whilst this team's structure has some obvious flaws, no team is without weaknesses. This team has both incredibly fun to use and has been reasonably successful too.

    I'd say the biggest threats to my team are Rain teams, although they're still manageable with the correct play. I was considering using a Ninetails, although I couldn't find a free slot for it. Since my team is not particularly bulky, I have to also be careful when dealing with strong choiced attacks. I'm willing to modify the team if necessary, so feedback would be appriciated.

    Thanks for reading!

    Format taken from ToF's RMT which was taken from Iconic's RMT.
  2. Ninja Dewott

    Ninja Dewott

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Put HP Rock or Ice on Volcarona, otherwise it'll find it tough to deal with Dragonite/Salamence, (especially Dnite) and could be phazed out with Dragon Tail or taken out with a strong STAB Outrage. Give it the leftovers instead
  3. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    since your team covers most threats quite nicely, i'll mainly try to make the team function better as a whole. im really not seeing the point of roserade. yeah, blissey is a problem for volcarona, but it really seems like a bit of a waste of a teamslot simply to run a pokemon to dispense toxic spikes. i think that instead, it may be much more worthwhile to run a ferrothorn in that slot. here's why: ferrothorn can dispense spikes, which wears down the opposing team and makes it easier for volcarona to pull out a sweep. spikes are also extremely effective alongside your scizor-rotom core. ferrothorn also checks rain teams, who look like they could give you some issues. finally, ferro gives you another helpful resistance to dragon and rock attacks, two dangerous attacking types. use a set of spikes / leech seed / gyro ball / power whip, an ev spread of 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD (with a speed IV of 0), and a relaxed nature with the item leftovers.

    so for minor changes, im thinking theres a few things you should try out. maybe only run 96 speed evs on volcarona and put the rest in HP? nobody really runs modest scarf rotom-w (they're pretty much always timid), so this way you get some extra bulk. i also definitely think you should go for ice beam on starmie; dragonite is a huge pain for volcarona, so you definitely wanna minimize the amount of places it can set up. however, dont use ice beam in place of recover, as starmie is such an important team member so it really needs recover imo. instead, use it in place of grass knot. jellicent is already wrecked by roserade (or ferrothorn if you go with my suggestion) and rotom-w, so isn't that important for starmie to be able to take it down. besides, jellicent is becoming more and more uncommon (at least from my own experience lately), so it isn't as worrying. finally, i definitely urge you to go with timid nature over modest on rotom-w. i know you say you like the power modest grants, but timid just seems way too important, as it lets you outspeed all +1 dragonite and gyarados, as well as naturally speedy mons like starmie, terrakion, and infernape. i feel that the ability to beat these threats is more important than some additional power, but if you disagree, by all means keep running modest.

    summary of changes (open)
    replace roserade with standard ferrothorn
    on volcarona, use 96 speed evs
    on starmie, use ice beam over grass knot
    on rotom-w, use a timid nature


    great team, and good luck mannn~
  4. Kakimori

    Kakimori

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    82
    I'm not sure Starmie needs Recover, especially since running Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin lets it act as a secondary sweeper but also Rapid Spin when necessary. BoltBeam is just too good to pass up. As long as you're careful with how you use your Starmie, only letting it die when you're sure you can bring Volcarona out, you should be fine.

    I agree that you have way too many Speed EVs in Volcarona. After two Quiver Dances, it won't matter anyway, and you could use the extra bulk in HP or Defense. Personally, I think you only need 24 Speed EVs to outrun base 115 Pokemon after a QD.
  5. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    he should probably run at least 96 speed evs simply because then he can outspeed choice scarf terrakion, a prominent revenge killer, after two quiver dances. thats pretty much the fastest pokemon youre ever gonna be dealing with in this metagame, so i think 96 is a good number to aim for.
  6. Harsha

    Harsha (BAN ME PLEASE)
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

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    Howdy,

    This is a really cool team! I agree with Snorlaxe's earlier rate; I don't think Roserade is required for this team to function well. I think a Double Booster Terrakion would fit the role well, as A) He takes out Substituting Heatran with ease, something that could give Dugtrio a hard time, B) He is a major threat to most teams lacking a dedicated Physical wall, and even then, he can handle them with the right support, and C) He can murder some threats that Volcarona may have a tough time with; namely Gyarados, Dragonite, and Salamence. Also, you might consider Thunderbolt > Trick on your Rotom-W, simply because it allows you to take care of SubDD Gyarados, who can trouble the standard Volt-Turn core. With no Thunderbolt on Starmie, you can have trouble against SubDD Gyarados. Anyhow, here is the Terrakion set I mentioned earlier:

    Terrakion Set (open)
    Terrakion @ Air Balloon (You could use a Life Orb because you don't have a Ground weakness)
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk | 4 SDef | 252 Spe
    Adamant | Jolly Nature
    ~ Rock Polish
    ~ Swords Dance
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ Close Combat
    Terrakion Set (open)


    He's actually fairly simple; just dance to boost whatever stat will contribute the most aid and then rip through the opponent. The Nature is your choice, and I think you could go either way with the item. You just need to find a favorable switch-in. That's my two cents. Feel free to disregard it. Anyhow, cool team! Good luck!
  7. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
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    387
    Thanks for the rates guys! ^^

    I'll consider testing each of the suggestions within due time. Anyway, I'm considering dropping Roserade and replacing Starmie with Tentracruel, which can both lay Toxic Spikes and spin Stealth Rock away. Thoughts on that?
  8. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Leader

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    I'd keep Starmie, mainly because it provides you some useful firepower against Rain teams and fits the offensive tempo of this team, imo. However, your current Starmie easily loses the offensive advantage, since it is walled by Grass / Dragon types. Definitely try out Ice Beam over Recover; Leftovers should keep Starmie around long enough to spin. I suggest removing Grass Knot for Thunder however, since Grass Knot fails to 2HKO Jellicent without Expert Belt / Life Orb, whereas Thunder is a safe 2HKO on the standard 248 HP / 0 SDef Jellicent without Rocks. Grass Knot also does not help against Tentacruel, who will be able to beat Recover-less Starmie 1 vs 1, and losing Roserade means that Starmie must beat Tentacruel. Thunder has a high chance at scoring a 2HKO on Tentacruel as well. Yes, I understand this is not a Rain team, but Thunder has acceptable accuracy to pull off 2HKOs (and it's a menace when you face Rain teams).

    Relying on Dugtrio to revenge kill opposing Volcarona is risky, since you can't always count on Dugtrio's Focus Sash to be intact in the time of emergency. Scizor's Quick Attack is a powerful revenge-kill move, but sadly not enough to bring Volcarona down. Scarf Terrakion will provide you a much more reliable check to Volcarona. Since Terrakion can now serve as the team's revenge-killer, Rotom-W can lose its Choice Scarf for a bulkier spread.

    Scarf Terrakion & Rotom-W (open)
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Rock Slide
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 SAtk / 116 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave


    With this bulk, it can take Water and Fire hits better, making this Rotom-W a solid coverage against Rain teams. It can also switch into offensive Heatran and Volcarona. Although you have Terrakion to check Volcarona, Rotom-W can T-Wave instead of Wisp to paralyze Volcarona. HP Grass 2-shots Gastrodon with Rocks, doing 50% min to specially defensive variants.

    I also have a suggestion for Volcarona: since you are foregoing Toxic Spikes, why not try a more offensive variant? Specifically, try Will-o-Wisp over Rest? Volcarona is a magnet for Terrakion / Tyranitar / Gyarados / Dragonite switch-ins; Volcarona can easily lure them out and render them useless with Will-o-Wisp. Even defensive Water-types like Politoed, Jellicent, Gastrodon, and Tentacruel will not be able to stop Volcarona later in the match after being inflicted with a burn. Heatran walls this set hard, but that's why you have Dugtrio. Will-o-Wisp allows Volcarona to be self-sufficient, crippling its counters to set the stage for a QD sweep later in the match. It also makes Volcarona that much more of a team player.

    The lack of Rest means that Chansey / Blissey are not set-up bait anymore, but Scarf Terrakion and Scizor (and Dugtrio to a lesser extent) keeps them at bay. In other situations, Wisp on Volcarona will come in handy. Here's the specific set:

    Wisp Volcarona (open)
    Volcarona @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 128 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fire Blast / Fiery Dance
    - Bug Buzz
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Enough speed to outrun Adamant Haxorus, and Leftovers & plenty of HP EVs to reliably set up QDs. I personally prefer Fire Blast, because the 50% larger damage output is significant, and I'd like Volcarona to sweep right off the bat. Since it lacks Rest, Volcarona most likely wont be stacking up as many QDs under its belt before it starts its sweep; this is where the raw power of Fire Blast comes in handy, compared to Fiery Dance.

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