On any special based set HP fighting looks increasingly attractive as it hits nattorei and empoleon, 2 of the 3 pokemon that resist kingdra's stab (and who uses shedinja?), who would normally cause problems for kingdra.
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Kingdra
- Thread starter STEELDRAGON
- Start date
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
Uhhhh...
136 SpA LO Hydro Pump in the rain vs. 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Nattorei: 28.1% - 33.2%
136 SpA LO HP Fighting vs. 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Nattorei: 29.5% - 35.2%
So ya, it's hardly worth it.
136 SpA LO Hydro Pump in the rain vs. 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Nattorei: 28.1% - 33.2%
136 SpA LO HP Fighting vs. 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Nattorei: 29.5% - 35.2%
So ya, it's hardly worth it.
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
Kingdra needs to inflict as much damage as possible (especially on a SPECS set, my goodness), and the awful base power of Boiling Water is going to hurt Kingdra more than help it.
Plus, the set isn't trying to stall, and even if it was I would argue that Surf is superior to Boiling Water.
Not to mention you already have Nattorei as a solid wall, which benefits greatly in the rain, as well as providing things like Para, Spikes, Toxic, and Stealth Rocks, and resistance to Electric and Grass moves. Burunkeru is nice with STAB Rain Boil Over, but it is still susceptible to the common anti-water attacks.
Rotom-W is nice support, I guess, with WoW and STAB Rain Hydro Pump.
Rotom-W is nice support, I guess, with WoW and STAB Rain Hydro Pump.
I was thinking a set as this:
Kingdra @leftovers/life orb/lum berry
Damp/Swift Swin
damp is nice to prevent you from explosion when you trap something and swift swin can benefit of some rain of politoed^^
adamant 252/252/4 atk speed HP
or any spread that you like
Whirlpool
Dragon Dance
outrage
waterfall
basically you can trap something that can't damage you much and start using dragon dance to become really strong.
leftovers for more surviability, life orb for extra damage and lum in case you are worried about status.
Kingdra @leftovers/life orb/lum berry
Damp/Swift Swin
damp is nice to prevent you from explosion when you trap something and swift swin can benefit of some rain of politoed^^
adamant 252/252/4 atk speed HP
or any spread that you like
Whirlpool
Dragon Dance
outrage
waterfall
basically you can trap something that can't damage you much and start using dragon dance to become really strong.
leftovers for more surviability, life orb for extra damage and lum in case you are worried about status.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
things like this will almost never work out since when someone sees Kingdra he will switch to something that can damage you much, why would i stay in with a pokemon that can't do something against him?
You always will trap something that will KO you or something that you simply can't damage and at worst case it starts to set up against you.
The trapping moves are pure gimmick and in 99% a waste of a move slot.
On a side note damp is never worth it on Kingdra swift swim is soooooo much better (even without rain support of your own since it allows you to counter opposing Rain Teams thanks too Kingdras 4x Water resist) especially now when explosion got ripped of half his damage nd rain is likely too get a huge boost in form of politoed.
Last post was on October? My God, I thought the premier special sweeper of Drizzle teams in the Drizzle Era would get more discussion.
So anyways, I just wanted to post here that since Aldaron's Proposal has been passed, Kingdra's usage, by default, has gone down. Without Drizzle, he can't afford to run Choice Specs by himself (his best set since), so that's out of the question with the existence of Latias or a Rain Dancer.
With Sandstorm apparently dominating the metagame at this moment, Kingdra' Special Rain Dance set is essentially at its best now. Last generation, it could destroy teams just with one turn of set up: Rain Dance. Not only does Rain Dance take away the ever present Sandstorm, but it also turns Kingdra into a threatening sweeper easily. Kingdra's best set, in my opinion, now is the Rain Dance + 3 Attacks set With Life Orb.
By the way, why aren't Rain Dance set listed in the OP? Since Drizzle Politoed is banend with Swift Simmers now, I think Kingdra can now run it viably.
So anyways, I just wanted to post here that since Aldaron's Proposal has been passed, Kingdra's usage, by default, has gone down. Without Drizzle, he can't afford to run Choice Specs by himself (his best set since), so that's out of the question with the existence of Latias or a Rain Dancer.
With Sandstorm apparently dominating the metagame at this moment, Kingdra' Special Rain Dance set is essentially at its best now. Last generation, it could destroy teams just with one turn of set up: Rain Dance. Not only does Rain Dance take away the ever present Sandstorm, but it also turns Kingdra into a threatening sweeper easily. Kingdra's best set, in my opinion, now is the Rain Dance + 3 Attacks set With Life Orb.
By the way, why aren't Rain Dance set listed in the OP? Since Drizzle Politoed is banend with Swift Simmers now, I think Kingdra can now run it viably.
Kingdra (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EV's: 252 attack, 66 speed, 192 Special attack
Rash nature
-Surf
-Waterfall
-Rain Dance
-Draco Meteor
I switch this in on Tyranitar or Hypodon after they comes in, rain dance, and and Ttar better switch cause he never lives a surf. I can ususaly live a hit (when i set up rain).
Lum Berry is for the Venesaurs and Ninetails on the sun teams who think they can put me to sleep, Waterfall handles Ninetails. Stuff like Life Orb is unnecesary.
It destroys sand teams way easier than sun teams though.
Can be saved till the end for a sweep.
Alternatively, you could run Kingdra with Politoed's Drizzle, and just use Sniper instead of Swift Swim (since no one wants to run Damp). It lacks the insane speed it once had, but it's still bulky, insanely strong, and can carry a Scarf to help its Speed. I don't know if it would work well, but it seems worth a shot on Drizzle teams.
...also, you'd kill basically anything if you get a crit.
...also, you'd kill basically anything if you get a crit.
But you could slap a Scarf on just about any good, fast Water-type special sweeper and call it a day, though Kingdra's Draco Meteor seems to push that a bit further.
Except that with Choice Scarf, Kingdra isn't as good - its impeccable coverage is what makes it shine, and it needs to be able to switch between those moves.
The only exception is Specs Hydro Pump, which is disgustingly powerful under rain. But then, Starmie can do that too, and has the speed advantage over Kingdra this time around.
The only exception is Specs Hydro Pump, which is disgustingly powerful under rain. But then, Starmie can do that too, and has the speed advantage over Kingdra this time around.
Back then when Drizzle was free, Kingdra could easily use his Choice Specs set with nearly no abandon (those few limitation including the ever present Ferrothorn). Again, with Aldaron's Proposal passed, Starmie kind of takes over this role because it still has a speed advantage and, particularly, a similar Special Attack stat. Not only that, but Starmie also has access to Thunder and Ice Beam, which is considerably comparable to Kingdra's Dragon + Water. So yeah, Starmie can takeover this role well, and Kingdra does have to rely on Rain more often, obviously.
In my experience, Kingdra does fall short of KOs with his Rain mixed set because of the shortage of power in each attack stat. It does have the advantage of hitting special walls for more damage though, and with all the trouble Specs Kingdra caused in the Drizzle era, people expect a special sweeper more. I do think, however, that Kingdra's Special Sweeper set (forgone under Specs) is his most reliable set. I would use this:
name: Rain Dance Special Attacker
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Dragon Pulse
move 4: Draco Meteor / Surf
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Since Kingdra isn't always going to be in Rainy weathers, maximum Speed is required to beat a few threats before setting up. After Rain is up, this thing has the ability to break nearly any balanced or offensive teams, provided Ferrothorn and special walls are eliminated. Life Orb essentially makes you a faster Latias, whereas Leftovers allows you to sponge random hits carefully. As a note, 92 HP EVs let you take a +0 Jolly Balloon Excadrill’s Earthquake decently: 56.4% - 66.2%, so that might be viable. I’m pretty undecided on a best EV spread, but 92 HP EVs should let you check Sandstorm teams, too.
In my experience, Kingdra does fall short of KOs with his Rain mixed set because of the shortage of power in each attack stat. It does have the advantage of hitting special walls for more damage though, and with all the trouble Specs Kingdra caused in the Drizzle era, people expect a special sweeper more. I do think, however, that Kingdra's Special Sweeper set (forgone under Specs) is his most reliable set. I would use this:
name: Rain Dance Special Attacker
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Dragon Pulse
move 4: Draco Meteor / Surf
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Since Kingdra isn't always going to be in Rainy weathers, maximum Speed is required to beat a few threats before setting up. After Rain is up, this thing has the ability to break nearly any balanced or offensive teams, provided Ferrothorn and special walls are eliminated. Life Orb essentially makes you a faster Latias, whereas Leftovers allows you to sponge random hits carefully. As a note, 92 HP EVs let you take a +0 Jolly Balloon Excadrill’s Earthquake decently: 56.4% - 66.2%, so that might be viable. I’m pretty undecided on a best EV spread, but 92 HP EVs should let you check Sandstorm teams, too.
Kingdra is too slow this gen to go without speed boosting. What with Rain effectively being neutered, this means DD sets. Skarmory walling ahoy.
You’re right. Kingdra is indeed a tad slow compared to the other omnipresent threats. Kingdra being unviable with his speed isn’t the case though. Rain being neutered also doesn’t necessarily mean he has to resort to Dragon Dance, being walled and taken out by Ferrothorn and Skarmory and Choice Scarf users. Both Dragon Dance and Rain Dance attackers have virtually different counters, so you can’t be exactly sure you’re facing the right variant. I would say that Kingdra, despite Aldaron’s Proposal, can still make an impact in Standard. You can place Rain Dance Kingdra on just about any team and your opponent won’t suspect it because you’re not running an obvious Rain team. Dragon Dance can be the case for this too.
RD Kingdra? Cool. I love wasting a turn for when random Sand Streamer comes in like you know they will.
A Mixed DD Set with HP Fire might actually be worthwhile if HP Fire can take care of Ferrothorn and keep Skarmory at least at bay (unless Waterfall does more damage which I doubt).
Offensive Mixed Dragon Dance:
Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Sniper/whatever
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
IVs: 29 HP (to allow 1 more LO turn)
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def) / Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Hidden Power Fire
With no investment, and a Life Orb, HP Fire will always 2HKO non-Specially Defensive Skarmory, while keeping Ferrothorn at bay.
The Speed EVs are to outrun base 130s after a Dragon Dance and to allow Kingdra as much physical power as possible. The extras are put into SpD though can be switched to Def if needed, just as you can switch natures too.
A Mixed DD Set with HP Fire might actually be worthwhile if HP Fire can take care of Ferrothorn and keep Skarmory at least at bay (unless Waterfall does more damage which I doubt).
Offensive Mixed Dragon Dance:
Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Sniper/whatever
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
IVs: 29 HP (to allow 1 more LO turn)
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def) / Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Hidden Power Fire
With no investment, and a Life Orb, HP Fire will always 2HKO non-Specially Defensive Skarmory, while keeping Ferrothorn at bay.
The Speed EVs are to outrun base 130s after a Dragon Dance and to allow Kingdra as much physical power as possible. The extras are put into SpD though can be switched to Def if needed, just as you can switch natures too.
I admit the inevitable Sand Streamers. Sure. That one turn of Rain is wasted by a Sand Streamer, but there's a problem with them. Most set-up sweepers actually waste a turn, and RD Kingdra is no different. Tyranitar and Hippowdon can't take Hydro Pumps or Waterfalls forever. Switch them in, and they're either KO'd instantly or take two Water-type attacks. And yeah sure. You can always switch in a resist for the evitable Water-type attack, but that's easily neglible with support. Last generation? RD Kingdra could be placed on nearly any team and still be good, even with Sandstorm flying about. What I'm trying to say is that RD Kingdra isn't as easily discountable (or useless).
Also, the mixed DD set is peculiar! I'll give it stars since Kingdra with a Fire-type move isn't as obvious as Salamence or Dragonite or Hydreigon.
I currently running a set that allows it to tech in against rain and sun teams to do some heavy damage as well as being a nice check to things like defensive gliscor who dont run speed EV's/
Kingdra @Life Orb
Timid
4HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Dragon Pulse
Surf
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Fire
The Hidden Power gives it much greater versatility in normal battles OHKOing any Nattorei that magnezone doesn't get to. While it seems to lack power and speed it partners very well with Specs latios and CBNite despite the considerable lack of relative bulk.
Kingdra @Life Orb
Timid
4HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Dragon Pulse
Surf
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Fire
The Hidden Power gives it much greater versatility in normal battles OHKOing any Nattorei that magnezone doesn't get to. While it seems to lack power and speed it partners very well with Specs latios and CBNite despite the considerable lack of relative bulk.
That works reasonably well too, Texas. Basically, I'm not saying "toss kingdra, useless PoS". Work around his new counters, y'know? HP Fire is his best chance at this I think.
MixDD actually seems kinda awesome now, considering no one's expecting it to pack something to take out Nattorei/Ferrothorn, or even Skarmory.
MixDD actually seems kinda awesome now, considering no one's expecting it to pack something to take out Nattorei/Ferrothorn, or even Skarmory.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I don't know about you, but water types carrying hp fire for ferrothorn is all the rage now. Rotom-W does it. Vaporeon and Starmie do it. Hell, even the Mantine that swept half my team a while back was doing it. HP Fire Kingdra doesn't seem remotely bad at all.
Why not just run sniper + chesto rest + DD for drizzle teams?
I mean, people loved ChestoRest with DD kingdra before right? You lose out the swift swim, but still, double stab to water attacks backed by a DD or 2 has to have some major potential. And double stab with Outrage and Waterfall + Rest + DD.
I mean, people loved ChestoRest with DD kingdra before right? You lose out the swift swim, but still, double stab to water attacks backed by a DD or 2 has to have some major potential. And double stab with Outrage and Waterfall + Rest + DD.
Rain dance kingdra is being severely underestimated. Sand stream?, thats not a problem for rain dance kingdra, its the other way around, RD kingdra messes those teams up, i klnow this from EXP.
It's wasted set-up considering it only lasts 5 turns. You're better off using something more lasting.
It's the same concept as OTR Bronzong or TR Reuniclus - set up RD, then do as much as you can in the turns you have available - while this does preclude Kingdra from using his DD sets, he can still start chucking out high-powered Hydro Pumps and the like.
Sure, TTar, Hippo, or Ninetales can come in on you and clear the rain effect, but none of them particularly enjoy eating a Hydro Pump, even with the Sp. Def boost.