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Kyurem-B Discussion: Is it Broken?

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Gary2346, Jul 23, 2013.

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  1. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    [​IMG]Kyurem-B Discussion[​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Ever since its unexpected drop from Ubers, Kyurem-B has been one of the most threatening Pokemon to ever show its face in OU. It has absolutely terrifying offensive stats, above average bulk, and a speed stat to let it outpace most of the defensive part of the metagame, making it a nightmare for stall teams. Players that are just now beginning to get into OU always seem to ask the same question, "Why the hell is Kyurem-B OU?" Honestly, if I were them, I would probably be asking the same question. It's stats are definitely Uber worthy, in fact, they're better than most Uber stats. It's Attack stat is so gargantuan that only Deoxys-A beats it by a measly 10 points. Kyurem-B has THE most powerful Outrage in the game, it can KO almost the entire tier with a Choice Banded Outrage while 2HKOing a lot of Steel-types. It has access to Fusion Bolt to destroy Skarmory and bulky Water-types like Politoed, Jellicent, and Vaporeon. It has enough bulk to withstand a super effective Choice Banded Bullet Punch from Scizor, and a Life Orb Mach Punch from Breloom, two incredible feats of nature that only a few Pokemon in OU can achieve. So how on earth did this thing become OU? Just like I did for my Hydreigon discussion thread, I'm going to evaluate its stats, typing/ability, and viable movesets. Then, I'm going to explain the reasons why Kyurem-B is considered broken by some, and the reasons why some people view it being perfectly balanced in this metagame. I will also give my thoughts on the subject, and explain why I think Kyurem-B is or isn't broken.

    Stats


    HP: 125
    Attack: 170
    Defense: 100
    Sp. Atk: 120

    Sp. Def: 90
    Speed: 95

    Stare in horror at the 700 base stat total. These stats rival Ubers such as Palkia, Zekrom, Rayquaza, and almost even Arceus himself. As you can see, Kyurem-B is the definition of a bulky attacker, being able to tank pretty much any kind of neutral attack and even a lot of super effective hits, and then proceeding to destroy the opponent next turn. Speaking of which, it's attacking stats are insane; 170/120 screams a mixed attacker, and that's just what Kyurem-B does best. The biggest letdown, actually the ONLY let down, is Kyurem-B's Speed stat. Although 95 base speed is by no means bad, it fails to outpace a lot of the offensive portion of the metagame, such as Salamence, Volcarona, Terrakion, Keldeo, Latios, Latias, Garchomp, and Starmie. This makes it hard for Kyurem-B to stay in and wreck havoc, because there's always something out there that threatens to outspeed Kyurem-B and possibly deal massive damage to it. Still, Kyurem-B's fantastic bulk makes up for its low speed. Like mentioned earlier, Kyurem-B is capable of taking multiple super effective STAB moves from certain Pokemon, such as Scarf Keldeo, Banded Scizor, LO Breloom, and Terrakion. That's outstanding.


    Typing and Ability:

    Type: [​IMG][​IMG]

    Kyurem-B sports a total of 3 resistances and 4 weaknesses, which honestly isn't that bad. It's weak to common typing, most notably Rock and Fighting, but it has a ton of useful resistances to make up for it; Grass, Water, and Electric. The Ice-typing negates its weakness to Ice attacks, while its Dragon-typing makes it neutral to Fire-types. The biggest problem with Kyurem-B is its weakness to the infamous Stealth Rock. Every time it switches in, a 25% chunk of damage is stripped off of its health, which sucks. This limits its ability to switch in and out often with Rapid Spin support, and on top of that Kyurem-B will no longer be able to abuse its massive bulk because of the loss in health each time it switches in. Last but not least, it's weak to Bullet Punch and Mach Punch, and sadly both of these moves are used by very commonly seen OU Pokemon.

    Offensively, Kyurem-B typing is amazing. The Ice-typing hits 4 common types super effectively, while the Dragon-typing is only resisted by Steel. This makes Kyurem-B extremely dangerous, because it can use its Ice attacks to break through common walls such as Gliscor and Landorus-T that may try to stop it from sweeping.

    Ability: Teravolt


    And you thought Haxorus having Mold Breaker was scary? Teravolt makes Kyurem-B just that more powerful, capable of bypassing certain abilities such as Sturdy, Levitate, and Wonder Guard. This allows Kyurem-B to OHKO Forretress with HP Fire, and Skarmory. It bypasses through Bronzong's Levitate, keeping it from completely walling Kyurem-B. Last but not least, it keeps Dragonite from living an Outrage or Dragon Claw through Multiscale and KOing Kyurem-B with Outrage.

    Viable Movesets:

    I will list all of the current viable movesets for Kyurem-B that are considered the most potent, and explain them in detail. I will then rank them on a scale of 1-10, on how effective I think the sets are at potentially breaking the metagame or just being too damn powerful.

    Variant: Substitute Attacker
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spd
    Lonely Nature
    - Substitute
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Dragon Claw
    - Ice Beam / Roost

    This set strikes fear into the eyes of defensive teams, stall in particular. With Kyurem-B's plethora of useful resistances and titanic bulk, it's no wonder that it can pull of a very successful Substitute set. Substitute protects Kyurem-B from status, weaker attacks, and from being revenge killed. Because of Kyurem-B's ability to force a lot of switches, getting up a Substitute is very easy. Fusion Bolt is Kyurem-B's most efficient method in dealing with bulky Water-types such as Politoed, Jellicent, and Vaporeon, while also dealing massive damage to Skarmory that normally walls Dragon-types. Dragon Claw is Kyurem-B's only physical STAB that it can abuse, but it gets the job done, dealing a ton of damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Ice Beam is still very powerful coming off of its above average 120 SpA, and it's used to hit Breloom, Celebi, Dragonite, Landorus-T, and Gliscor harder than anything else. Roost is a viable option to improve Kyurem-B's longevity and possibly prevent the need of a rapid spinner, but the coverage loss from Ice Beam is huge, and it makes this set much less effective.

    Impact on the metagame: 7/10

    This set is easily one of the most dangerous sets that Kyurem-B can run because of its ability to get off 1-2 hits before it has to switch out. In just one turn, it has enough protection to deal a huge amount of damage to the opposing team, because Substitute gives it 1-2 free turns of damage. Some people would say that this set is the reason that Kyurem-B is broken, but I actually disagree with that statement. There are a lot of things that are dangerous behind a Substitute in this metagame, Dragonite and Terrakion are two in particular that give many teams a LOT of trouble when behind a Substitute. I would much rather see Kyurem-B behind a Substitute then a DD Multiscale Dragonite or a SD Terrakion. Still, once Kyurem-B is behind a Sub, it's hard to properly handle it without sacking something first, making this set a huge threat.

    Variant: Choice Scarf
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt

    - Ice Beam / Earth Power

    The Choice Scarf set was one of those sets that people thought would be too powerful for the metagame. Kyurem-B's 95 base speed is easily patched up with a Choice Scarf, letting it wreck havoc against things that would normally outspeed it. It's a fairly simple set, but it has the ability to not only revenge kill, but to also break walls. Outrage is incredibly powerful, mowing through the metagame with little to no issues, only fearing the occasional Breloom, Scizor, Skarmory, and other Scarfed Dragons. Dragon Claw is a more reliable option to deal solid damage to weaker opponents or early game when Outrage is too dangerous to use. Fusion Bolt is break through Skarmory and bulky Water-types like Vaporeon that may try to stall out Kyurem-B. Ice Beam is Kyurem-B's only other useful option, because its physical movepool is shit, and it wants to have a decent STAB to abuse. It's mostly for Gliscor and Landorus-T, who wall this set.


    Impact on the metagame: 5/10

    This set looks absolutely devastating on paper, but in hindsight, it's not THAT amazing. It's powerful, fast, and dangerous, but it's extremely predictable and lacks any sort of reliable coverage outside of Ice Beam and Fusion Bolt, which the opponent can easily take advantage of. It's a really good lategame cleaner, but it lacks powerful coverage that things like Scarf Garchomp, Terrakion, and Keldeo bring. Even Salamence, who lacks a lot of power compared to Kyurem-B, still has moves like EQ and Fire Blast to fry Steel-types and Jirachi. It's a good set, but not broken.


    Variant: Choice Band
    Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam / Sleep Talk
    THIS is the set that made people want to keep Kyurem-B locked up in Ubers originally. It has the most powerful Outrage in the game when given a Choice Band, capable of 2HKOing Steel-types and KOing pretty much the entire tier. There's really no safe switch-in to this set, maybe other than Defensive Skarmory, but that's about it. Dragon Claw hits hard as fuck, and it's better used earlier in the game when Steel-types are still present. Fusion Bolt is for Skarmory, Water-types, yada yada. Ice Beam seems pointless on a Choice Banded set, but again, Kyurem-B has a shitty movepool. This set works just like the Scarf set, except instead of speed this set is basically just raw power that blasts through anything. If you're team hates stall, just slap this thing on your team and watch as Kyurem mows through the entire team with just a click of a button.


    Impact on the metagame: 6/10
    This set isn't underwhelming in any shape or form, but it's just such a predictable set that you might as well just give Kyurem-B one move. It hits extremely hard, but that's about it. It provides very little coverage outside of Ice Beam, and it really brings nothing to a team other than raw power. If you're looking for a powerful wallbreaker with more coverage, try using CB Garchomp or CB Dragonite, the latter having E-Speed for faster, frailer threats. This set is only broken in a sense because of how outrageously (no pun intended) powerful Outrage is. It's not entirely broken, but it's pretty much impossible to switch into, which is enough to raise a few eyebrows.

    Variant: Mixed Attacker
    Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Mild Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Outrage
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Earth Power

    This is it. This is the set that everyone overlooked when suspect testing. Everyone focused on Kyurem-B's amazing physical power, weakness to common typing and SR, and a shitty physical movepool, but very few people ever mentioned the monster of a set that is the Mixed attacking set. With Kyurem-B's 170/120 attacking stats and great special movepool, there's no reason not to run a mixed set to be honest. This set has zero counters, because Kyurem-B seems to have a move for every common wall out there. Celebi? Ice Beam. Rotom-W, Heatran and Jirachi? Earth Power. Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory? HP Fire. Jellicent? Outrage. See what I mean? Unlike the physical sets, this set isn't predictable, it doesn't require that much support to succeed, and it has coverage that makes mixed Hydreigon look bad. It's still slow and susceptible to priority, but you have to be an idiot not to nab at least 1-3 KOs with this set alone. By the time the opponent has already scouted your set, they've lost a few Pokemon in the process. Outrage is the only physical move that Kyurem-B needs, and even with only 4 EVs in Attack investment, Kyurem-B reaches a staggering 376 base Attack. With max Spa investment, Kyurem-B reaches a jaw dropping 376/371 offensive stats, the epitome of a mixed attacker.

    Impact on the metagame: 9/10

    Although this set is more susceptible to being revenge killed than most of its other sets, it really doesn't matter when there's not ONE Pokemon that's safe from this set. It's bulky, it's powerful, it's insane. Like I mentioned earlier, everyone always seems to complain about Kyurem-B's atrocious physical movepool, but it's special movepool, on the contrary, is quite plentiful. Even with Kyurem-B's many defensive flaws, you really can't go wrong with this set. It's just so good and so dangerous, that I think it's enough to call Kyurem-B a tad too powerful for the metagame.

    Anti-Ban Arguments:
    • Shitty physical movepool
    • Weak to Stealth Rock
    • Weak to common typing such as Fighting, Rock, and Steel
    • Weak to Bullet Punch and Mach Punch, both very common
    • 95 base speed is too slow
    • Walled by Steel-types
    Pro-Ban Arguments:
    • Can 2HKO most Steel-types with Outrage
    • 125/100/90 defenses make it too bulky and hard to revenge kill
    • Can run the best mixed set in OU, capable of tearing apart the metagame with little support
    • A decent 120 SpA stat combined with a great special movepool negates the need for a better physical movepool, because Outrage, Fusion Bolt, and Dragon Claw is all it needs
    • 170/120 is just too much in general
    • With only a minimal of bulk investment, it has the potential of living a CB Bullet Punch from Scizor and a LO Mach Punch from Breloom, and KOing them next turn. Same goes with Terrakion and Keldeo.
    • Can beat pretty much all of its counters with a coverage move
    • 95 base speed is enough to tear apart the defensive portion of the metagame, and notable threats such as Modest Volcarona, Adamant Lucario, and Timid Heatran
    My personal opinion:

    I will admit that I'm a bit torn. I'd like to think that Kyurem-B can work in this metagame, but after facing it and using it countless of times ever since its release from Ubers, I'm beginning to lean more and more towards thinking it's a bit too much for the OU metagame. Although it has some major defensive flaws and mediocre speed, it's amazing offensive capabilities and titanic bulk make up for it in my opinion. Just because something has a lot of flaws, doesn't make it manageable in a lower tier. Take Ho-Oh for instance. I've heard that people want to test him out in OU because of similar flaws to Kyurem-B. This Pokemon has some major flaws, such as a x4 weakness to SR, 90 base speed, weak to common typing, and has a shitty physical movepool. However, Ho-Oh only really needs Sacred Fire, Brave Bird, and EQ to pose as an offensive threat. It's ability Regenerator keeps it from being effected from SR as much, and it has an absolutely ridiculously high special defense. It's bulky, powerful, and dangerous. Sound familiar? Kyurem-B may be manageable, but is manageable really enough to keep it OU? It's one of those Pokemon that looks like it's flaws outweigh it's myriad of positives, but in practice, Kyurem-B is easily one of the most devastating Pokemon in OU, and it's almost impossible to prepare for. Sure, some of its sets are easy to revenge kill, but every time Kyurem-B gets a free switch into something (which is often) something is going to have to be sacked or take a huge amount of damage. I feel like if we would have known just how devastating the Mixed attacking set is before unbanning it, I feel like the suspect test would have gone a bit differently.


    Feel free to discuss your views on the subject. All I ask from you guys it to and please respect my own opinion. I feel like I am knowledgeable enough on the metagame and on Kyurem-B itself to make an educated opinion on its broken nature. Thank you.

    Here is a fantastic post by Meru, giving his two cents on how effective Kyurem-B is at impacting team building.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  2. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Yeah I would like Kyurem-B out of the meta to, but unfortunately it doesn't look like we have the time or willingness to do another suspect after Keldeo, which is rumored to be the last suspect.

    Anyway, Kyurem-B is devastating in the right hands, however I do think it is manageable. Kyurem-B is rarely able to kill anything unless it locks it's self into said Outrage, and at that point one can easily check it with a steel type or something faster. The Stealth Rock weakness exasperates this problem, especially for choice versions, which without proper support are losing 25% of their health every switch in. The mixed versions are nice and all, but I can't help but feel someone would be better off using the regular Kyurem for that, which I should mention sits easily in BL without anyone complaining, the only think Kyurem-B has over it is a stronger Outrage.

    IMO possibly the most devastating think you can do with Kyurem-B is to incorporate it with Magnezone, and maybe some Rapid Spin or Magic Bounce support. A stall team has its ways to deal with it if they can keep hazards up and check with their steel type, take that away and they are pretty much lose a Pokemon every click of the Outrage. Fortunately, I haven't met many teams like this on the ladder... yet.
  3. Jcpdragonx

    Jcpdragonx

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    Having limited safe switch ins has proved mean little this generation, unfortunately.
    Joeyboy likes this.
  4. Laga

    Laga We will never hear about the truly perfect crime.
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    Is it broken? Yes.

    Will it get banned? Nope, too late.

    Basically, it's mixed set just eats everything. Coverage from Fusion Bolt / Dragon Claw (or Outrage) / Hidden Power Fire (or Ice Beam) basically shits on what you think counters it. The most notable thing about it is that it can OHKO Skarmory, Donphan and Forretress through Sturdy. It has basically no safe switchins, meaning that a good player will almost always net 2 KOs with it, especially since...

    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 324-384 (82.86 - 98.2%)

    IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE WEAK TO IT.
    argh too pwrful...
    RzK and Spirit like this.
  5. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    Very interesting discussion. In short, I do think that Kyurem-B is amazing, but manageable. Due to its Stealth Rock, Bullet Punch, and Fighting weaknesses, I feel it is just manageable enough to be OU. However, if it got any boost such as ice punch, it would almost definitely be Ubers. I always liked how Kyurem-B is a huge monster offensively, but can be managed. I frankly like it in OU, but if you mismanage playing against it, you will get swept. The best set is probably the sub roost set.
  6. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    oh no. not again

    Yes it shits on defensive teams. But that's how BW2 is. But until they day it isn't getting some more solid Physical options (especially Ice and Ground) then most of the crowd will be against retesting it.
  7. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    As someone who runs HO teams, this is why I don't suffer from Kyube: SR, weakness to BP and Mach punch (most common users are both top 10 and technicians) and doesn't resist any other priority, 95 base speed stat which means every other Dragon (and Dragonite +1) can come in wipe it off, not to mention other physical attackers such as Terrakion. Also lots of teams nowadays tend to run focus sashes and Alakazam, in which case Kyube's only claim to fame in that match is bringing a pokemon down to 1 HP before dying. Speaking of which, 2HKO on Steels is great on theory, but Jirachi carries the very common Iron Head and most ferros live under the Rain.

    No, Kyube will only be broken if he get a mildly powerful Fight move.

    Now, ask me what I hate most out of all these sets and the reason why I don't switch out anymore even if that means fodderizing a mon away:

    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spd
    Lonely Nature
    - Substitute
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Dragon Claw
    - Ice Beam / Roost

    There are lot's of variants for this set, mainly the coverage move beside Ice Beam and Dragon Claw. This is the set everyone should be using.

    Edit: Did I mention he gets no Sword Dance or Dragon Dance?
    Goutland and MikeDawg like this.
  8. Explorer

    Explorer

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    Use a Brave nature. Kyurem-B's physical bulk is excellent and we don't want to detract from that. Also, Kyurem-B also gets Focus Blast. With something like Fusion Bolt/Outrage/Focus Blast/Rock Slide you could hit pretty much all of OU neutrally, and much of it super-effectively.
  9. MikeDawg

    MikeDawg keep calm; ban everything
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    In this case, it's better to capitalize on special resists (like water) to help with sub preservation (ie more setup opprotunities)
  10. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    After using the Mixed set, I have trouble going back to anything else (sometimes the first sub set is good though). I run Draco Meteor > HP Fire because I don't feel like gimping the incredible power Kyurem-B has in order to get some extra damage on Ferrothorn, Forry, and Scizor (Ice Beam 2HKOs Skarm anyways). You've got a team, use them and opt for the better set instead. All you have to do is play the set like MixMence and shit just starts falling apart.

    Starmie makes a pretty good partner for the set, resisting Fighting and Steel, providing rapid spin (you want this), and outspeeding some relevant threats for Kyu-B like Terrakion.

    Amazing Pokemon. Probably not broken.
  11. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Kyurem-B's shallow movepool is not a valid argument against its usefulness.
    It's not like Wobbuffet who can only run two viable sets (one of which being just a variation of its only other set): Kyu-B can run at least 6 non-gimmicky sets (Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Sub+3 attacks, physically based mix, specially based mix and SubDragonTail) plus a plethora of non-standard sets like Choice Specs and Power Herb Freeze Shock.

    Kyu-B's ability to switch in against extremely common pokemon (i.e. Politoed and Rotom-W), complete unpredictability and ability to nab free KO's like no one else's business is what pushes it beyond the line - and this is coming from someone who has extensively used it since its unban.
    No other pokemon in OU requires so little skill to play with such a huge reward like Kyu-B. Its mere presence in a team means that the opponent will lose two or more pokemon as soon as they stop playing offensively.
    Even HO teams aren't entirely safe because if they're locked into the wrong move (such as Keldeo being locked into Surf) Kyu-B will come in and kill something.
  12. superstar

    superstar

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    I think the best moveset for Kyurem-B is Fusion Bolt/Earth Power/Ice Beam/Substitute, since Dragon Claw can't hit anything that Earth Power can't, and Earth Power gives you better options for hitting Forry, Rotom-W, and Bronzong. Sub is what makes Kyu-B so dangerous because those three moves can 2HKO literally anything while Kyurem is safe behind a Sub. Pure mixed set is heavily prediction reliant. Is it broken? Eh...it's definitely less powerful than Keldeo, and a lot less effective against many teams. I'll see how the pony suspect goes before weighing in on one side or the other on this
  13. Legitimate Username

    Legitimate Username YAY I'M HELPING!
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    I tested out Substitute Kyurem-B on my latest Hyper Offense team, and I'd have to agree that it's pretty broken. Revenge killing it is not very easy, as it has the bulk to easily set up subs in front of weaker attacks (especially the ever-common Scald, though it can't risk switching in), allowing it to happily destroy stall teams, and have a good chance of taking down a few mons on offense teams. Even though it lacks moves like Earthquake and Icicle Crash, it does fine with just dragon/electric coverage alongside STAB Ice Beam. I feel like what makes Substitute Kyurem-B so deadly compared to other Substitute users is its high bulk allowing easy setup. Even if it's not as powerful as something like SD Terrakion, the base 170 attack makes it arguably more intimidating and likely to force switches.

    The Mixed Attacker set fares better against stall while losing some effectiveness against offense. It's certainly powerful, but it's definitely not the metagame's only reason stall is so uncommon. If Kyurem-B gets banned, Hydreigon is just one example of an easy replacement.

    The choice sets just build on Kyurem-B's devastating weaknesses of Scizor/Breloom's priority and other common scarfers like Terrakion, with the power gain unnecessary and the speed gain not terribly helpful compared to Substitute.

    I never really had much trouble dealing with Kyurem-B, but I play weatherless offense. This thing is broken enough that you should be able to tell just by using it well. Half the time I feel like Kyurem-B isn't wallbreaking, it's just sweeping while behind a Substitute. If something with only base 95 speed can do that in this extraordinarily offensive metagame, then that says a lot for its bulk and power. I doubt there'll be time, but I'd very happily welcome another suspect test for it.
  14. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    I wouldn't say that Kyu-B's mixed set heavily prediction reliant, in fact what makes it so good is the incredibly safe moves at its disposal.
    Earth Power, for example, when combined with Teravolt is a terrifingly spammable attack from Kyu-B, as nobody in their right mind would even think to send a flying type against something with access to STAB Ice Beam and Fusion Bolt.
    Things like Rotom-W and Bronzong, who would otherwise stand a chance at walling Kyu-B, are destroyed by Earth Power thanks to Teravolt negating Levitate.
    Then we have STAB Ice Beam, Fusion Bolt which essentially is an electric-type Earthquake and of course the strongest Outrage in the game.
    Focus Blast and HP Fire are its lesser coverage options, the former being inaccurate and the latter being weak and nerfed by rain, but Kyu-B doesn't really need them in order to be effective.
  15. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Okay for some weird reason I can't edit my last post, so sorry for the double post.

    Anyway, my main concern about Kyurem-B is that it beats so many team archetypes so easily. It dismantles Rain Stall, setting up on Politoed without Perish Song, Ferrothorn without Gyro Ball, and basically everything else on Rain stall teams. It also beat Sun teams so easily, taking on Ninetales, Venusaur, Donphan etc. Stall in general just can't touch Kyurem-B, as the only "counters" that come to mind are Jirachi and Ferrothorn (and I wouldn't even consider those counters). It's 2HKOing everything with defensive and offensive teams (although the latter isn't as impressive).

    Now lets talk about how versatile this Pokemon is. This Pokemon can run so many sets, because it's so powerful, it has a great special move pool, it has incredible mixed attacking sets, it has reliable recovery, and it's so bulky. It's so damn bulky for a Pokemon with 170 attack. Just let that sink in. Base 170 attack. This thing can 2HKO resists, which is insane.

    Yeah there are a few downsides to Kyurem-B, but being weak to Scizor's bullet punch or Breloom's mach punch doesn't stop it from being broken. The funny thing is that Kyurem-B can actually live these hits without SR on the field. These are the strongest priority attacks that OU has to offer, and Kyurem-B (a Pokemon weak to both attacks!) and live both and KO back in the process. And really, I understand base 95 speed isn't great for an offensive Pokemon, but are you really asking more from this Pokemon? Base 95 speed is all it needs to demolish most team archetypes.

    Sadly I don't think it will be tested in gen 5. Maybe it might be tested in gen 6, but there meta I'm assuming is going to be completely different *sigh* Anyway, those are just my views on Kyurem-B
  16. BKC

    BKC
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    i'm loving the logic of these people who run offense almost exclusively and therefore don't think kyurem-b is broken. if i ran nothing but terrakion jirachi scizor breloom latios etc i wouldn't have issues with kyu-b either!

    "Yes it shits on defensive teams. But that's how BW2 is."
    really? we acknowledge that it's probably the worst thing for defensive teams to face but that's ok because it's bw2? jesus
  17. Sleepless

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    * 3 resistances. (Grass,Water,Electric)

    I had an interesting time reading your article, as it was well-informed and quite convincing.
  18. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    And it's not even that simple. Actually stuff like Scarf Kyurem totally crushes any HO lacking a Scarfer over 100spe, or two SE priorities (ye most HO got this, but in late it's awfully hard to handle for any team lacking the opportunity to switch around it).
  19. Torterragatr

    Torterragatr

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    I'm a little torn here. The thing about Kyurem-B is that it completely rampages through stall teams, but offense can handle it. Kind of like U-turn Landorus-I (notice I said "kind of"). That said, the mixed set scares me to death, and not many offensive teams like Substitute Cube.
  20. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Ironically, BW2 isn't a very defensive metagame, so Kyurem-B is actually forcing the metagame to adapt to its presence by playing more offensive then defensive. People who prefer to run more defensive teams are immediately at a disadvantage as soon as they see Kyurem-B in the team preview. Of course offensive teams don't really mind Kyurem-B that much, because Kyurem excels at breaking down defensive cores so the rest of its teammates can clean up afterwards (the Scarf and Substitute sets are a problem though). I agree with you, most of the people arguing against Kyurem-B being broken most likely play more offensively. The fact that Kyurem-B is promoting a much more offensive metagame, seems a bit unhealthy IMO.
    TheValkyries likes this.
  21. Magcargo

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    After using Kyurem-b extensively, I've actually found a different set to be broken.
    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 HP / 216 SAtk / 236 Spd or 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 SDef
    Mild or Quiet Nature
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Substitute
    - Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire

    This set is slightly different from the standard substitute set since it uses a more specially based spread and lacks a dragon move. Personally, I find that the dragon move it somewhat useless on this set since it provides redundant coverage with Ice beam. Anyways, this set is very useful due to its incredible coverage. Fusion bolt and Ice beam hit most of the metagame super effectively and what isn't hit super effectively by these two moves gets hit super effectively by either earth power or hidden power fire. Like the regular sub set, this set requires less prediction and an set up a sub against most water types and some electric types like Double booster thundurus-t or Jolteon. Overall this set is one Kyurem-b's best sets and IMO, broken.

    Also, I'm confused why the Sub shuffler set wasn't mentioned in the OP.
  22. BKC

    BKC
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    i don't think the ridiculously offensive metagame is completely kyurem-b's fault, but every time i run stall, i think to myself "man, if they run kyu-b i'm screwed/going to have a really hard time", because it hits everything so hard and it's stupidly hard to kill. no other threat does that. garchomp is the only one who even comes close and he's nowhere near as hard to deal with as kyu-b is. even its "counters" [ferrothorn, jirachi] are really just shaky checks at best.
  23. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    The SubShuffler set is like TormenTran from Gen 4 - it can potentially humiliate the opponent, but it's not something you would just slap onto any team.
    That set works best with Hail and/or Toxic Spikes on the field, which unfortunately aren't easy to keep up in BW2 without dedicated team support.
  24. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Good set Magcargo! Dragon Claw is primarily used because of its decent neutral coverage against most of the metagame, but there really isn't a reason to use it otherwise. If your team needs more coverage, then use EP or HP Fire over D-Claw. If not, it's still a fine option to hit pretty much anything hard.

    The Substitute Shuffler set wasn't included because its impact on the metagame isn't nearly as big as the sets listed in the OP. I only listed notable sets that could possibly break Kyurem-B, and the Sub Shuffler set, although very bulky, isn't breaking the metagame anytime soon. It's very effective when given the right support, but unlike its other sets, the Sub Shuffler set needs a LOT of support.
  25. ciaranroy

    ciaranroy

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    252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 258-304 (73.29 - 86.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 310-366 (68.28 - 80.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    So yeah, higher natural bulk than Ferrothorn. With the power to 2HKO the entire metagame. And yet, I don't feel it is broken. It isn't as restrictive on teambuilding as Landorus-I or Keldeo, as you don't need an immunity to be safe from it. Its counters aren't easily disposed of like Keldeo or Landorus's, although Magnezone does do a pretty good job. Still, without Earth Power, Heatran and Jirachi wall it forever. I don't feel it is as broken as Keldeo, or as Landorus was. I just feel it is the strongest physical threat in OU, but not broken.

    (Also, nitpicking here, but in the OP it says 5 resistances, when it only has 3)

    Edit: Ninja'd goddammit
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