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Kyurem-Black (Ubers Analysis) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Colonel M, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Look at this monstrosity of Kyurem-(B)adassery!

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/646.shtml

    [Overview]

    <p>Kyurem-B is the black sheep... erm... dragon among the big and bad Dragon-types that dominate the Uber metagame. Teravolt lets Kyurem-B ignore Multiscale, Wonder Guard, and Sturdy, making Kyurem-B look even more unstoppable. The addition of Fusion Bolt to Kyurem's physical repertoire helps it out a lot by allowing it to smash Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Lugia, and Skarmory without resorting to either a lock into Outrage or constant reliance on Focus Blast's questionable accuracy and Hidden Power Fire's dependency on sunlight. Not all is glorious for the bastard Pokemon, though, as Fusion Bolt is the only notable physical move that Kyurem-B received upon its introduction. Freeze Shock at least gives Kyurem-B a physical Ice-type attack, but it does have the disadvantage of being a two-turn attack. Still, considering that electrifying base 170 Attack and modest 120 Special Attack coupled with the strongest Outrage in the game, Kyurem-B is more than capable of placing massive dents into Pokemon that don't resist its attacks. Its typing is questionable, but does give it the ability to check Kyogre and Scarf Palkia locked into Water- or Electric-type attacks. The mixed set being able to handle Groudon and Kyogre without forcing a lock into Outrage or a severe Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor is also significant for differentiating Kyurem-B from other Dragon-types. Best of all, its base 95 Speed gives it the jump over its fusion counterpart, Zekrom.</p>

    <p>What is that, you say? Kyurem-W is so much better than Kyurem-B that it doesn't deserve a team slot? Eat your heart out, o insignificant plebeian! Due to Kyurem-W's strongest Dragon-type attack off its higher attacking stat being Draco Meteor, Kyurem-W must constantly switch out. Considering that Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W have a weakness to Stealth Rock, it appears that the W in Kyurem-W true meaning is how Kyurem-Weak it can be sometimes. Kyurem-W also has a harder time overcoming a couple of Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and Kyogre. To make matters worse, Kyurem-W doesn't really enjoy seeing Chansey and Blissey's ugly eggs since it requires using Outrage to overcome them. Kyurem-B shows the following warning sign to all that mock its shortcomings; underestimate at your own peril, because Kyurem-Badass is here to stay and ready to wreck your team!</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Dragon Claw
    move 3: Fusion Bolt
    move 4: Freeze Shock / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Possessing the strongest Outrage in the game, Kyurem-B has enough juice to always 2HKO Support Groudon provided that Stealth Rock is in play. When using an Adamant nature, it doesn't even need Stealth Rock support to achieve this. It can do at least 45.1% - 53.2% to max HP / min Def Ferrothorn, which is amazing considering Ferrothorn not only resists the attack but has good Defense as well. Dragon Claw is for consistent Dragon-type coverage and still does a number to Pokemon neutral to it. With Stealth Rock damage alone, even bulky Pokemon, such as max HP Dialga, are cleanly 2HKOed.</p>

    <p>Fusion Bolt is Kyurem-B's best option against Skarmory, Manaphy, Ho-Oh, and Kyogre. All of them are easily OHKOed by it. Water Arceus and Lugia will take a massive hit, 84.5% - 99.5% for the former and 66.8% - 78.8% for the latter. However, Kyurem-B must be cautious when trying to take out Lugia because it can stall out Fusion Bolt with Roost. Since Kyurem-B does force a lot of switches, Freeze Shock is not outright useless, considering that it's a 140 Base Power STAB that has no real immunities to it and a 30% chance of paralysis as an added effect. Freeze Shock also OHKOes every Groudon and standard Ferrothorn, which could switch in to stop Kyurem-B. Sadly, Freeze Shock is unreliable most of the time and can be neutralized via Protect, so Sleep Talk can be used to allow Kyurem-B to take a Dark Void. With Sleep Talk, almost nothing is a safe switch-in to this behemoth. The nice thing is Sleep Talk selecting Outrage won't lock Kyurem-B into it.</p>

    <p>40 HP EVs allows Kyurem-B to survive 4 Seismic Tosses and minimizes residual damage, while 216 Speed EVs ensures it outruns everything up to max neutral base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Choice Specs Reshiram. Adamant is the preferred nature for this set since Kyurem-B wants to hit everything as hard as possible. Jolly is an acceptable nature if you are desperate to outspeed max Speed Kyogre or neutral Rayquaza. Keep in mind there is a notable power drop when using a Jolly nature, meaning Kyurem-B will fail to 2HKO Ferrothorn and Groudon 100% of the time. It is usually not worth losing the power for a slight gain in Speed. Unlike Rayquaza, Kyurem-B needs all the power it can get due to its horrible coverage. If you would rather have Kyurem-B be bulky, pouring all the EVs into HP or defenses instead of Speed can be a good idea. Since most base 90 Speed Pokemon run little to no Speed anyway, Kyurem-B will not miss out on anything significant besides certain offensive base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Zekrom and Reshiram. However, due to that reason alone, max Speed is the preferred option.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Ice Beam can be used with a Lonely nature to 2HKO defensive Groudon switch-ins without forcing a lock into Outrage. However, since this is a Choice Band set, Ice Beam is not recommended as Kyurem-B can already 2HKO almost anything with Outrage. Stealth Rock support is a must when using Kyurem-B since it tosses most bulkier Pokemon into KO range from Outrage or Fusion Bolt. Speaking of Stealth Rock, opposing entry hazards can be a major nuisance to Kyurem-B because it is weak to every type of hazard. Forretress and Excadrill can support Kyurem-B by spinning away entry hazards and setting up Stealth Rock or, in the case of Forretress, any hazard you prefer. Mold Breaker Excadrill has the added benefit of hitting Giratina-O with powerful Earthquakes while Forretress can use STAB Gyro Ball to neuter most Outrage-locked Pokemon and has much higher physical Defense. Groudon can set up Stealth Rock while supporting Kyurem-B with Thunder Wave if needed. Groudon is also very good at taking out Steel-types, which can wall Kyurem-B, with Fire Punch or Overheat. Kyurem-B is kind of average when it comes to Speed, so paralysis support will greatly enhance its performance. Groudon can also squash Jirachi and handle Steel Arceus that lack Will-O-Wisp to an extent.

    <p>Ferrothorn can be Kyurem-B's nightmare unless it's locked into Outrage and a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock are up. Once Ferrothorn is slightly weakened, however, Kyurem-B can bash through it with two Outrages. Protect variants are harder to handle since they can push the 2HKO back into a 3HKO and fire off STAB Gyro Ball just to piss Kyurem-B off, usually scoring a 2HKO. Magnezone isn't a bad partner for this reason. It also can pick off Forretress that lack Volt Switch, and Skarmory that opt not to use Shed Shell. If you're planning to go with this method, though, definitely use a spinner as Forretress and Ferrothorn will continuously set up entry hazards.</p>

    <p>For further assurance versus Ferrothorn and Arceus-Steel, Ho-Oh can be used since Kyurem-B will likely have Rapid Spin support alongside it. While taking a Stone Edge can suck, Ho-Oh can take some of Kyurem-B's weaknesses and Kyurem-B can take some of Ho-Oh's. Kyurem-B is not reliant on the weather, but it excels at tearing holes in rain teams thanks to its resistance to Water-type attacks and neutrality to Ice-type attacks.</p>

    <p>Powerful Choice Scarf users such as Terrakion and Reshiram in the sun can be a huge help to Kyurem-B. Terrakion appreciates Kyurem-B being able to knock around Groudon and Lugia, too. Always remember to pack a spinblocker when using Kyurem-B because entry hazards are crucial for Kyurem-B to clean up nicely. Giratina-O, Ghost Arceus, and Giratina are your best bets because the other Ghost-types are simply useless, like Dusclops, or just not fit for Ubers like Gengar. Ghost Arceus has the added benefit of not being weak to Dragon-type attacks, while Giratina-O has Levitate to avoid Toxic Spikes as well as access to some utility options such as Dragon Tail to wear down Ferrothorn when combined with hazards. Giratina is probably your best status absorber and is the bulkiest of them all, ensuring entry hazards will almost never leave the field. If you're not opting to use paralysis support, Trick Room can also work. Kyurem-B is usually slow enough to function on Trick Room teams, though it obviously will fail to outspeed some really slow threats such as Bronzong. It's also slower than Wobbuffet, so just be careful of a random Encore coming in. However, Trick Room is a rather shaky strategy in Ubers so it isn't recommended. Tailwind support from the likes of Arceus and Ho-Oh is usually more useful in general since, at +2 Speed, Kyurem-B will outspeed just about anything, including Choice Scarf Terrakion. Since burns and paralysis can become annoying, Heal Bell or Aromatherapy from Chansey or Blissey can be beneficial. They also can pass huge Wishes to keep Kyurem-B healthy if removing entry hazards proves difficult. However, Kyurem-B is generally not fit to be on stall teams, so Jirachi is probably a better choice for Wish support, although the Wish size difference is very noticeable due to Kyurem-B's high HP.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Mixed
    Move 1: Outrage
    Move 2: Fusion Bolt
    Move 3: Ice Beam
    Move 4: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Lonely
    EVs: 84 Atk / 208 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>If the Choice Band set's sheer power does not impress you, Kyurem-B can also opt for a more roundabout way of getting around its counters so it can smash everything else with its STAB Outrage and underrated STAB Ice Beam. Since this Kyurem-B is a good wallbreaker, it can work nicely with stall teams since they often lack an offensive push to bust other stall teams. One must always keep in mind the reason to use this set over other mixed attackers, such as Zekrom and Rayquaza is its unique movepool, stat distribution, and incredibly powerful Outrage. It is one of the few mixed attackers not bothered by Ho-Oh thanks to Fusion Bolt.</p>

    <p>Fusion Bolt handles Kyogre, Skarmory, Manaphy, Ho-Oh, and Water Arceus easily, as they are all 2HKOed at worst. Lugia can also be taken out with Fusion Bolt as long as it is slower. With the given EVs, Ice Beam is a guaranteed OHKO on max HP Groudon, and Stealth Rock is not required. It also allows Kyurem-B to trash most Dragon-types without needing the use of Outrage. For example, even physically defensive Giratina still takes a good chunk of damage (62% - 73.2%) and standard mixed attacker Giratina-O is OHKOed after Stealth Rock. Also, in case you're worried about not being able to OHKO Giratina, Outrage does a massive 78.7% - 93%, an OHKO with Stealth Rock and two layers of Spikes.</p>

    <p>Focus Blast is Kyurem-B's best option for hitting Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Tyranitar without locking Kyurem-B into Outrage. Ice Beam + Focus Blast does 90.9% damage at a minimum to Ferrothorn, so Stealth Rock and two layers of Spikes is required to 2HKO. However, if Ferrothorn has Protect, then a third layer is required for the guaranteed KO. Defensive Dialga takes 63.9% - 75.2% from Focus Blast, which Kyurem-B can follow up with Ice Beam for 37.6% - 44.6%, which is a 2HKO with Stealth Rock. Ice Beam + Outrage also will 2HKO Defensive Dialga easily. Defensive Tyranitar on the other hand takes 78.2% - 93.1% from Focus Blast if it isn't holding a Chople Berry, so Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes is necessary to OHKO. Hidden Power Fire is another option when supported with sunlight as it can trash Ferrothorn and Forretress. 2HKOing Steel Arceus and Excadrill is pretty slick too. The Speed EVs give Kyurem-B the jump on neutral base 90 Speed Pokemon that invest in Speed. If you're using Hidden Power Fire, take 4 EVs out of Attack and place them into Speed.</p>

    <p>Lonely nature is preferred over Naughty. While Kyurem-B's natural Defense is higher, Naughty makes Kyurem-B more susceptible to Kyogre's attacks, which otherwise Kyurem-B does a decent job taking. In a worst case scenario, Kyurem-B can be used to take on Scarf Palkia locked into Thunder or its Water-type attacks.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max Attack can be used instead of the given EV spread if you don't care about the OHKO on Groudon, as minimum Special Attack Ice Beam still 2HKOes 252 HP Groudon and OHKOes Gliscor. Roost can be used if you're nervous about Life Orb recoil and other forms of passive damage, such as Stealth Rock and sandstorm. However, it's really difficult to fit in, and you have to opt for losing an attack that might otherwise give Kyurem-B good momentum against the opponent's team. Generally, Roost is not worth using because Kyurem-B simply lacks the time to use it effectively and is better off just firing off powerful attacks.</p>

    <p>Life Orb is too clutch for this set to be replaced as the extra power is crucial to gain the KOs listed. Hazards are, once again, a major necessity to help defeat bulkier Pokemon such as Ferrothorn. Stealth Rock is a must, while Spikes is highly recommended. Forretress is probably Kyurem-B's best friend again, as it can set up Spikes while being able to spin away all the nasty entry hazards on the field. Skarmory is also good since it can intercept Scarf Terrakion and Taunt defensive Pokemon such as Lugia, preventing them from recovering. Groudon is an excellent teammate as it can lay down Stealth Rock, deal with Terrakion and some faster Dragon-types such as Garchomp, and possibly cripple the opponent's team with Thunder Wave; the boost its Drought ability gives Hidden Power Fire is especially useful because the sun is needed to KO Forretress and Ferrothorn. If paired with Groudon and Forretress, Ho-Oh becomes a solid candidate because it too enjoys the sun, Rapid Spin support, and entry hazards. Ho-Oh does an awesome job tearing apart some of the other problematic Pokemon that Kyurem-B faces such as Steel Arceus and Jirachi. This set isn't as troubled by the presence of Ferrothorn as the Choice Band one, so a counter to deal with Ferrothorn is of less concern.

    <p>Wobbuffet can make a good partner for Kyurem-B since it can pick off a lot of faster Pokemon such as Lugia, Mewtwo, and Choice Scarf Palkia, while using Encore to possibly provide Kyurem-B a free switch-in. Since Focus Blast is not dependent on weather, Kyogre can be used instead. It can use Thunder Wave to slow down the opponent for Kyurem-B since it rarely draws in Ground-types, helping slow down the opponent's team significantly for Kyurem-B to sweep. Spinblockers such as Giratina-O, Ghost Arceus, and Giratina are a must for this set to function at maximum potential. Reshiram works nicely with Kyurem-B, as it can roast Steel Arceus and Heatran alive thanks to Turboblaze and its immense firepower. Wish passing from Blissey, Chansey, or Jirachi can be pretty beneficial to Kyurem-B's health, although Kyurem-B is unlikely to survive long in any given match.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Dragon Claw
    move 3: Fusion Bolt
    move 4: Freeze Shock / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 176 Atk / 168 SpD / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Kyurem-B can also function as an effective revenge killer thanks to its extremely high base Attack and passable Speed. Unlike most Choice Scarf users, Kyurem-B can go bulky as it has a naturally high Attack stat and can afford to invest in bulk instead. With Choice Scarf, usual checks will be demolished if they are not using a Choice Scarf of their own. For example, non-Choice Scarf and Haban Berry Palkia is cleanly OHKOed by Dragon Claw before it can move.</p>

    <p>Just like the previous sets, Outrage is the main sweeping move as it is Kyurem-B's only real powerful attack, strong enough to 2HKO max HP Arceus. Thanks to this set's high Speed, revenge killing it while it is stuck using Outrage becomes harder. Dragon Claw is great for picking off weakened foes as it does not lock Kyurem-B into Outrage although the power can be disappointing at times. Fusion Bolt will always 2HKO Lugia after Stealth Rock damage, and Kyurem-B always outspeeds it with this set. Besides Lugia, Fusion Bolt is also your strongest attack against Kyogre, Manaphy, and Ho-Oh, cleanly 2HKOing all at worst. For the last slot, Freeze Shock is the best option because Kyurem-B really lacks any other useful moves. Freeze Shock's extremely high Base Power allows it to OHKO Ground Arceus and Grass Arceus, preventing them from stalling out Outrage with Recover. If you hate Darkrai, Sleep Talk is an acceptable alternative as it allows Kyurem-B to freely take Dark Void. As a bonus, Sleep Talk will not lock Kyurem-B into Outrage when it is selected.</p>

    <p>Ice Beam is a fine choice if you are desperate to OHKO Gliscor and 2HKO Groudon without using Freeze Shock. The EVs in this set are focused on giving Kyurem-B as much as bulk as possible, while retaining the ability to outrun everything up to neutral Deoxys-A. Thanks to the Special Defense investment, Kyogre can only 2HKO Kyurem-B with Water Spout and Latias's Dragon Pulse will never OHKO from full health. Kyurem-B is also very likely to survive Palkia's Spacial Rend and OHKO back with Outrage or Dragon Claw. This set works great on both stall teams and offensive teams. Unlike Zekrom, Kyurem-B is not weak to Ice and can take out both of Zekrom's main counters, Grass and Ground Arceus. Kyurem-B can also switch into Kyogre much easier, something this set highlights. Putting all the EVs into Defense instead of Special Defense seems like a good idea, but Kyurem-B is more adept at switching in on resisted special attacks particularly against rain teams.</p>

    <p>Max Speed and Attack is also possible on this set just like any other Choice Scarf user. Kyurem-B cleans up better with that spread, but it can no longer come in on Kyogre easily and will be OHKOed by Palkia without fail. It is best for Kyurem-B to stick to its own niche and avoid direct competition with Zekrom, which boasts STAB Bolt Strike and better overall typing.</p>

    <p>Entry hazard are still a necessity for this set, and Rapid Spin support will greatly extend Kyurem-B's lifespan. Wish support from the likes of Blissey, Chansey, or Jirachi is also appreciated, and this set can function well on stall teams. Forretress once again makes a fantastic partner for launching entry hazards, soaking up Outrages and providing Rapid Spin support. Something to take Fighting-type attacks, such as Lugia which can stop most Dragon-types that threaten Kyurem-B as well, is also needed </p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Haban Berry allows Kyurem-B to take at least one Dragon-type attack and sack the opposition with its own STAB Dragon-type attacks. Kyurem-B has the bulk to pull it off, but Stealth Rock being cleared from the field is a must as otherwise those STAB Dragon-type attacks will KO Kyurem-B even through Haban Berry. Roost can be used in the event that Stealth Rock is hard to clear off the field, but is not recommended due to Kyurem-B's offensive nature. As hilariously stupid as it sounds, Rock Smash can be used to 2HKO Ferrothorn switch-ins on the Choice Band set with Spikes support, guaranteed if a Defense drop occurs. Blizzard is an option but should only be used on the Hone Claws set. Freeze Shock can be used alongside Power Herb for a powerful initial attack. Substitute protects Kyurem-B from status, but is not as good as on some Pokemon because Kyurem-B really needs all the coverage moves it has. Endeavor can be used on the Choice Scarf set since, if you adjust Kyurem-B's HP stat correctly, it can be used as a last ditch attack if the only damage Kyurem-B took was Stealth Rock. Just be aware that it's not the most effective way to damage Pokemon that have access to recovery or are completely immune to it. Icy Wind can help Kyurem-B catch faster Pokemon off-guard, but that's about the only real use for it because of its low Base Power and imperfect accuracy. Sadly, Kyurem-B cannot learn Ice Punch or any other physical Ice-type move besides Freeze Shock.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Kyurem-B does not have many counters due to its sheer power and acceptable coverage. Steel Arceus is at the top of the list as it can near endlessly switch into Kyurem-B as it resists both of its STABs and Kyurem-B lacks any real method of clearing it aside from the inaccurate Focus Blast, the weak Rock Smash, and the sun dependent Hidden Power Fire. Choice Band Outrage is a possible 2HKO, but Judgment is likely OHKOing Kyurem-B if it has taken Stealth Rock or other passive damage. Choice Band Fusion Bolt can still do significant damage, rocking at 63.5% - 74.8%, so make sure Steel Arceus is healthy before trying to take the assault. As for Steel Arceus's options, it can also Will-O-Wisp Kyurem-B and continuously Calm Mind while recovering the damage.</p>

    <p>Ferrothorn can be a major thorn in Kyurem-B's side. While Choice Band Outrage and Ice Beam + Focus Blast can 2HKO, and Hidden Power Fire in the sun can OHKO, Ferrothorn can take just about anything else Kyurem-B has to launch at it and either hit Kyurem-B hard with STAB Gyro Ball or set up entry hazards to bother Kyurem-B later on if it switches out. Forretress is in a similar vein except it is not weak to Focus Blast but has worse Special Defense. Choice Band can be pretty difficult to counter due to its immense power unless you revenge kill it. Packing Pokemon faster than Kyurem-B and forcing it to use Outrage with bulky Pokemon such as Arceus is probably the best way to handle it. Skarmory can easily take repeated Dragon Claws and Outrages thanks to its great Defense and access to Roost, but will fall to Fusion Bolt. The Choice Scarf set is a little easier to handle since it is a lot weaker. Skarmory can step into every attack other than Fusion Bolt and can take one Freeze Shock (71.3% - 84.4%). Skarmory can Roost most of the damage off, set up its own Spikes, or phaze Kyurem-B out with Whirlwind. If the option exists, Skarmory can Brave Bird Kyurem-B, though be careful as the recoil will be a little more significant than usual with Kyurem-B's high HP. Lugia is similar to Skarmory in stopping Kyurem-B, but does not resist Dragon so Reflect is mandatory to guarantee the win.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is pretty important for limiting Kyurem-B's survival, and just as important is a spinblocker to prevent Stealth Rock from disappearing on Kyurem-B's side. Dialga, Deoxys-S, and Groudon are notable for being able to set up this essential hazard, while the Giratina formes and Ghost Arceus can spinblock effectively. In general, Outrage is Kyurem-B's double-edged sword. While Outrage can do significant damage to the majority of the Uber tier, it also leaves Kyurem-B susceptible to being revenge killed in the process due to its average Speed. Scarf Outrage is a little harder to revenge kill, admittedly, but it is also easier to wall.</p>




    Show Hide

    <p>Kyurem-B is the black sheep... erm... dragon among the big and bad Dragon-types that dominate the Uber metagame. Teravolt lets Kyurem-B ignore Multiscale, Wonder Guard, and Sturdy - making Kyurem-B look even more unstoppable. The addition of Fusion Bolt to Kyurem's physical repertoire helps it out a lot by smashing Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Lugia, and Skarmory without resorting to either a lock onto Outrage or constant reliance on Focus Blast's questionable accuracy and Hidden Power Fire's dependency on sunlight. Not all is glorious for the bastard Pokemon, though, as Fusion Bolt is the only notable physical move that Kyurem-B received upon its introduction. Freeze Shock at least gives Kyurem-B a physical Ice-type attack, but it does have the disadvantage of being a two turn attack. Still, considering that electrifying base 170 Attack and modest 120 Special Attack coupled with the strongest Outrage in the game, Kyurem-B is more than capable of placing massive dents into Pokemon that don't resist its attacks. Its typing is questionable, but it does give it an upper hand on being able to check Kyogre and Scarf Palkia locked onto Water- or Electric-type attacks. The mixed set being able to handle Groudon and Kyogre without forcing a lock onto Outrage or a severe Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor is also significant for differentiating Kyurem-B from other Dragon-types. Best of all, its base 95 Speed gives it the jump over its fusion counterpart, Zekrom.</p>

    <p>What is that, you say? Kyurem-W is so much better than Kyurem-B that it doesn't deserve a team slot? Eat your heart out, o insignificant plebeian! Due to Kyurem-W's strongest Dragon-type attack on its spectrum being Draco Meteor, Kyurem-W must constantly switch out while using it. Considering that Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W have a weakness to Stealth Rock, it appears that the W's true meaning is how Kyurem-Weak it can be sometimes. Kyurem-W has a harder time overcoming a couple of Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and Kyogre. To make matters worse, Kyurem-W doesn't really enjoy seeing Chansey and Blissey's ugly eggs since it requires using Outrage to overcome them. Kyurem-B shows the following warning sign to all that mock its shortcomings - Underestimate at your own peril, because Kyurem-Badass is here to stay and ready to wreck your team!</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Dragon Claw
    move 3: Fusion Bolt
    move 4: Freeze Shock / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Outrage has enough juice to always 2HKO Support Groudon provided that Stealth Rock is in play. Adamant nature doesn’t even need Stealth Rock support. It can at least do 45.1% - 53.2% to max HP / min Def Ferrothorn, which isn’t terrible.
    • Dragon Claw is for consistent Dragon-type coverage, and still does a number to Pokemon neutral to it. With Stealth Rock, max HP Dialga is 2HKOed.
    • Fusion Bolt is Kyurem-B’s best option against Lugia, Skarmory, Water Arceus, and Kyogre.
    • Since Kyurem-B does force a lot of switch-outs, Freeze Shock isn’t bad. Also consider that it’s a 140 base power STAB that has no real immunity to it (sadly it can be taken out via Protect) with a 30% chance of paralysis. For example, Freeze Shock OHKOes Groudon and Ferrothorn, which could switch in to stop Kyurem-B. Freeze Shock works slightly better on the Choice Scarf set since it prevents Kyurem-B from being susceptible to a faster Pokemon such as Arceus-Steel switching into Kyurem-B and being able to Will-O-Wisp / hit with STAB Judgment.
    • Freeze Shock can be unreliable, so Sleep Talk can be used to allow Kyurem-B to take a Dark Void. With Sleep Talk, almost nothing is a safe switch-in to this behemoth. The nice thing is Sleep Talk selecting Outrage won’t lock Kyurem-B into it.
    • Adamant is the preferred nature since Kyurem-B wants to hit everything as hard as possible. Jolly is an acceptable nature on the Choice Scarf set if you’re desperate to outspeed Kyogre / Adamant Dragon Dance Rayquaza. Keep in mind the notable power drop when using Choice Scarf and a Jolly nature such as failing to 2HKO Impish Groudon with Outrage and failing to OHKO with Freeze Shock.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Ice Beam with a Lonely nature can be used to 2HKO Impish Groudon switch-ins without forcing a lock into Outrage / Freeze Shock.
    • Stealth Rock is a must with using Kyurem-B since it tosses most of the bulkier Pokemon into KO range from Outrage or Fusion Bolt.
    • Speaking of Stealth Rock, hazards can be a major nuisance to Kyurem-B.
    • Forretress or Excadrill can support Kyurem-B by spinning away entry hazards and setting up Stealth Rock (or in the case of Forretress anything else). Excadrill has a small benefit of hitting Giratina-Origin while Forretress can use STAB Gyro Ball to neuter most Outrage-locked Pokemon.
    • Groudon can set up Stealth Rock while supporting Kyurem-B with Thunder Wave. Kyurem-B is kind of average when it comes to Speed, so paralysis being spread around makes using Kyurem-B all the easier. It also can handle Steel Arceus that lack Will-O-Wisp to an extent.
    • Ferrothorn can be Kyurem-B’s nightmare unless it’s locked into Outrage and a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock is up. Protect variants are arguable worse since they can push the 2HKO back into a 3HKO and fire off STAB Gyro Ball just to piss Kyurem-B off. Magnezone isn’t a bad partner for this reason. It also can pick off Forretress that lack Volt Switch and Skarmory that opt not to use Shed Shell. If you’re planning to go this method, though, definitely use a spinner as Forretress and Ferrothorn will continuously set up entry hazards.
    • For further assurance versus Ferrothorn and Arceus-Steel, Ho-oh can be used since Kyurem-B will likely have Rapid Spin support alongside it. While taking a Stone Edge can suck, Ho-oh can take some of Kyurem-B’s weaknesses and Kyurem-B can take some of Ho-oh’s (even though one of Ho-oh’s common weaknesses is cut by 50% thanks to sunlight).
    • Powerful Choice Scarf users such as Terrakion and Reshiram in the sun can be a huge help to Kyurem-B. Terrakion appreciates Kyurem-B being able to knock around Groudon and Lugia, too.
    • Always remember your spin blocker when using Kyurem-B. Giratina-O, Ghost Arceus, or Giratina-A are your best bets. Ghost Arceus has the added benefit of not being weak to Dragon-type attacks while Giratina-O has Levitate to be unaffected by Toxic Spikes as well as access to some utility options. Giratina-A is probably your best status absorber.
    • If you’re not opting to use paralysis support, Trick Room can also work. Kyurem-B is usually slow enough to function in Trick Room teams, though it obviously will fail outspeeding some really slow threats such as Bronzong. It’s also slower than Wobbuffet, so just be careful of a random Encore coming in.
    • Since burns and paralysis can become annoying, Heal Bell / Aromatherapy from Chansey or Blissey can be beneficial. They also can pass Wish around to keep Kyurem-B healthy if removing entry hazards proves difficult temporarily.
    [SET]
    Name: Mixed
    Move 1: Outrage
    Move 2: Fusion Bolt
    Move 3: Ice Beam
    Move 4: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Lonely
    EVs: 84 Atk / 208 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Kyurem-B can opt for a more roundabout way of getting around its counters to allow it to smash everything else with STAB Outrage.
    • Since this Kyurem-B is a good wallbreaker, it can work nicely with stall teams since they lack an offensive push to bust other stall teams.
    • Fusion Bolt handles Kyogre, Lugia, Skarmory, and Water Arceus.
    • With the given EVs, Ice Beam is an OHKO on max HP Groudon – Stealth Rock not required. It also allows Kyurem-B to trash most Dragon-types without the needs of stepping into the use of Outrage. For example, Giratina-A still takes a good chunk of health (62% - 73.2%) and Giratina-O is OHKOed after Stealth Rock. Also, in case you’re worried about not being able to OHKO Giratina-A, Outrage does 78.7% - 93%, which requires Stealth Rock and two layers of Spikes.
    • Focus Blast is Kyurem-B’s best option of hitting Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Tyranitar without locking Kyurem-B into Outrage. Ice Beam + Focus Blast does 90.9% damage at a minimum, so Stealth Rock and two layers of Spikes is required to 2HKO Ferrothorn (unless it has Protect, then a third layer is required). Defensive Dialga takes 63.9% - 75.2% from Focus Blast, which can follow up with Ice Beam for 37.6% - 44.6%, which is a 2HKO with Stealth Rock. Ice Beam + Outrage also will KO Defensive Dialga. Tyranitar takes 78.2% - 93.1%from Focus Blast if it isn’t holding a Chople Berry, so Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes is necessary to OHKO.
    • Hidden Power Fire is nice when supported with sunlight – it can trash Ferrothorn and Forretress. 2HKOing Steel Arceus and Excadrill is pretty slick too.
    • The Speed EVs give Kyurem-B the jump on neutral nature base 90s that invest in Speed. If you’re using Hidden Power Fire, take 4 Atk EVs and place them into Speed.
    • Lonely nature is preferred over Naughty. While Kyurem-B’s natural Def is higher, Naughty makes Kyurem-B more susceptible to Kyogre’s attacks, which Kyurem-B does a decent job taking. In a worst case scenario, Kyurem-B can be used to take on Scarf Palkia locked onto Thunder or its Water-type attacks.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Max Atk can be used instead of the given EV spread if you don't care about the OHKO on Groudon. Min SpA Ice Beam still 2HKOes 252 HP Groudon.
    • Roost can be used somewhere if you’re nervous about Life Orb recoil and possibly other forms of passive damage such as Stealth Rock or sandstorm. It’s really difficult to fit in, though, and you have to opt losing an attack that might otherwise give Kyurem-B a good momentum against the opponent’s team.
    • Don’t bother with any other items – Life Orb is too clutch for this set.
    • Hazards are, once again, a major necessity to help defeat the bulkier Pokemon. Stealth Rock is a must, while Spikes is highly recommended. Forretress is probably Kyurem-B’s best friend again, as it can set up Spikes while being able to spin away all the nasty entry hazards on the field. Skarmory is also good since it can intercept Scarf Terrakion.
    • Especially with Hidden Power Fire, Groudon is an excellent teammate since it can lay down Stealth Rock and possibly cripple the opponent’s team with Thunder Wave.
    • If paired with Groudon and Forretress, why not slap Ho-oh with it? Ho-oh does an awesome job tearing some of the other problematic Pokemon that Kyurem-B faces like Steel Arceus. To be fair, this set isn’t as trolled by the presence of Ferrothorn as the last set could (especially without Choice Band).
    • Wobbuffet can make a good partner with Kyurem-B since it can pick off a lot of the faster Pokemon such as Mewtwo and Scarf Palkia while using Encore to possibly provide Kyurem-B a free switch-in.
    • Since Focus Blast doesn’t mind weather, Kyogre can be used instead. It can use Thunder Wave since it rarely draws in Ground-types (Groudon is the only exception) and helps slow down the opponent’s team significantly for Kyurem-B to sweep with.
    • Spin blockers such as Giratina-O, Ghost Arceus, and Giratina-A are a must.
    • If you’re not opting to use paralysis support, Trick Room can also work. Kyurem-B is usually slow enough to function in Trick Room teams, though it obviously will fail outspeeding some really slow threats such as Bronzong. It’s also slower than Wobbuffet, so just be careful of a random Encore coming in.
    • If you’re not using Trick Room or paralysis support, definitely pack a Pokemon with Choice Scarf. Reshiram works nicely in the sun thanks to Groudon, though Terrakion is a neutral that can affect Steel Arceus without being reliant on weather.
    • Wish passing with Chansey or Blissey can be pretty beneficial to Kyurem-B’s health. In return, they can handle Ghost Arceus fairly well as well other Calm Mind Arceus that lack Refresh.
    [Other Options]
    • Haban Berry allows Kyurem-B to take at least one Dragon-type attack and sack the opposition with its own STAB Dragon-type attacks. Kyurem-B has the bulk to pull it off, but Stealth Rock being cleared from the field is a must. Roost should be used in the event that Stealth Rock is hard to clear on the field.
    • As hilariously stupid as it sounds, Rock Smash can be used to 2HKO Ferrothorn switch-ins on the Choice Band set.
    • Blizzard is an option, but given that Hail is difficult to fit into many Uber teams with Abomasnow being mediocre and having 70% accuracy, it’s not a good idea when Ice Beam and Focus Blast cover what is necessary on the mixed set.
    • Freeze Shock can be used alongside Power Herb or a Substitute. Substitute might be a shaky idea, though, given that Steel Arceus can easily switch into Kyurem-B and laugh at its poor attempt at trying to hit it.
    • Hone Claws is Kyurem-B’s best way of boosting its attack, but with its questionable weaknesses and mediocre Speed one must wonder why you would even try such a setup.
    • Endeavor can be used on the Scarf set since, if you adjust Kyurem-B’s HP stat correctly, it can be used as a final ditch if the only damage Kyurem-B took was Stealth Rock. Just be aware that it’s not the most effective method on Pokemon that have access to recovery / are completely immune to it
    • Icy Wind can help Kyurem-B catch slower Pokemon off-guard, but that's about the only real use of it.
    • I don’t know why I forgot to include it but Ice Punch can be used on both of the sets. In fact, it seems really stupid that I didn’t list Ice Punch there since Choice Band 2HKOes Ferrothorn and is practically a OHKO with Stealth Rock on a Lugia switch-in with its current EV spread. Silly me, how could I forget make such a careless error and forget about Ice Punch...

      ...Oh wait, I didn’t forget. Gamefreak was too stupid to give it a good physical Ice move.
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Well, unfortunately, Kyurem-B has Steel Arceus that sits on top of its mighty throne and continues to endlessly troll Kyurem-B with it being able to resist both of its STABs and lacking any real method of clearing it aside from lolRock Smash. Choice Band Outrage is a 2HKO, but Judgment is likely OHKOing Kyurem-B if Stealth Rock / other passive damage are on Kyurem-B. Choice Band Fusion Bolt can still do significant damage- rocking at 63.5% - 74.8%, so make sure Steel Arceus is healthy before trying to take the assault. As for Steel Arceus’s options, it can also Will-O-Wisp Kyurem-B and continuously Calm Mind while recovering the damage.
    • Ferrothorn can be a major thorn to Kyurem-B – while Choice Band Outrage can 2HKO and Ice Beam + Focus Blast can also 2HKO (or Hidden Power Fire in the sun can OHKO), it can take just about anything else Kyurem-B has to launch at it and either hit Kyurem-B with STAB Gyro Ball or set up entry hazards to troll Kyurem-B later on if it tries to switch out.
    • Choice Band can be pretty difficult to counter if it’s locked onto Outrage unless you revenge kill it. Packing Pokemon faster than Kyurem-B is probably the best way to handle this thing and attempt to force Kyurem-B to use Outrage. Skarmory can take Outrage in a dire emergency and Roost to force it to go into confusion.
    • Choice Scarf is a little easier to handle since Jolly is likely used to, at worst, tie +1 Rayquaza and guarantees jumping the gun on Scarf Kyogre / Reshiram. Skarmory can step into every attack barring Fusion Bolt and taking Freeze Shock if it’s taken some prior damage (does around 71.3% - 84.4%). Skarmory can Roost most of the damage off, set up its own Spikes, or PHaze it out with Whirlwind. If the option exists, you can Brave Bird Kyurem-B, though be careful as the recoil will be a little more significant with Kyurem-B’s high HP.
    • Stealth Rock is pretty important to limiting Kyurem-B’s survival, and just as important is a spinblocker to prevent Stealth Rock from disappearing on Kyurem-B’s side. Dialga, Deoxys-S, and Groudon are notable for being able to do so. Be careful about leading with Groudon, as Kyurem-B can also take the lead and OHKO it with Ice Beam.
    • In general, Outrage is Kyurem-B’s double-edged sword. While Outrage can do significant damage to the majority of the Uber tier, it also leaves Kyurem-B susceptible to being revenge killed in the process. Scarf Outrage is a little harder to revenge kill, admittedly, but it is also easier to wall in the process.
  2. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Posting here to mention about changes and what needs to be tested:

    - Scarf needs a thorough test maybe. I thought it was okay to slip in (let's face it - Choice Band and Choice Scarf are usually in most analyses with Pokemon of moderate / fast Speed), but Theorymon mentioned that it didn't work as well as he thought it would. I will likely give it a thorough testing and, if it works well enough, it will receive a separate set under Mixed.
    - Rock Smash to be put on the Choice Band set if only because it can 2HKO Ferrothorn after a Def drop. Personally I think it's a bad idea when Outrage is 2HKOing a little more reliably, but then again not locking onto Outrage and lacking options... kind of helps its case a little. Theorymon also wanted it before Sleep Talk...

    ...Maybe some testing. Maybe.

    That's about it. Feel free to critique and do your thing!
  3. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    - Put mixed as the first set because it's easier to justify mix's use over like Zekrom and Rayquaza
    - Split Band and Scarf because they function differently
    - Ctrl + F Jirachi = nothing so better address that
    - LO HP Fire in the sun can 2HKO Steel Arceus and specially defensive Jirachi after sr.
    - Ubers Slowbro 9.9
    - Need to mention that mixed can take out Ho-Oh easily, something that otherwise only Zekrom could do
    - Each set needs to emphasize on their advantages over other dragons. Most notably, Rayquaza and Zekrom.
    - CB Fusion Bolt isn't doing >70% to Steel Arceus lol .___.
    - Scarf Outrage isn't 2HKOing steelceus after sr and 3 spikes
    -
    ???
  4. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    i suppose all those silly dragon tail / light screen / roost / lure sets are not to be considered for sets then?
  5. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    I think what happened was I used +1 for the Outrage calcs on Smogon's damage calculator and swapped Jolly. Iunno, now that I have Honko's calculator it should be a hell of a lot easier to sit and calculate this without having to manually plug in numbers constantly. *Sigh*.

    - I'll add Jirachi. I was nervous because it is 2HKOed by Outrage with SR and a layer of Spikes, but it does okay against the Mixed set that doesn't have Hidden Power Fire in the sun.
    - Will add the note on HP Fire 2HKOing Steel Arceus in the sun, since that's obviously important to possibly force it to Recover.
    - I was thinking of Pokemon that were possibly used in Trick Room outside of the usual Dragons. I should've said Wobbuffet instead.
    - Guess I'll elaborate more on its niche advantages over Dragons. To be honest I was going to do this when I was going to write it all the way (for example, it's one of the few dragons that can beat Kyogre and Groudon without having to lock into Draco Meteor / Outrage / etc etc) and it can take most of Kyogre's movepool without major issue.
    - Icy Wind was meant for faster Pokemon I have no clue why I typed it like that.
  6. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Scarf looks good enough to keep as a set. Playing it like a cleaner is the best thing to do. I'll put it as the last set.

    - Mixed
    - Choice Band
    - Choice Scarf

    Will be the order of the set. And obviously I will flesh out more of Kyurem-B's awesome advantages over its Dragon-type cousins (aside from having the strongest Outrage in the game because we already know that).
  7. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    I support all of Jibaku's changes. You should probably mention how Freeze Shock can be useful against Stall teams. e.g.: Band Kyurem-B vs Giratina / Chansey / Skarmory. Chansey is out. Outrage resisted by Skarmory, Fusion Bolt by Giratina. You can just click Freeze Shock and something will die!
  8. trickroom

    trickroom
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    QC APPROVED 1/3 because Colonel_M rules and oh he defeated Jibaku in IRC last year.

    I agree with the order - Mixed, Choice Band and Scarf. Scarf can still hit hard and Outrage seems to be a good cleaning up move. Movepool sucks so Outrage is the best it can get.

    I personally think the mixed set can just use more HP instead of putting into Speed. Most base 90 Ubers run little Speed anyway. Kyurem-B will enjoy the bulk to come in on things like Kyogre and Ground Arceus.
  9. gookie

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    qc approved 2/3
  10. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Ok, for starters let's not make this analysis sound unnecessarily negative. Kyurem-B's is still a monster, just not as easy to use as Kyurem-W.

    Rock Smash is stupid. Outrage will outdamage it even against Steel-types. Don't even mention it.
    Should you get a defense drop against Ferrothorn, only an idiot would leave it on the field instead of switching out.

    Mention Roost. Yes, Kyurem-B has some nasty weaknesses but you can see those attacks coming from a mile away so it does actually get the chance to use it if you play smart.

    A Sub/Roost/Dragon Tail/Hone Claws set is also worth mentioning. 95 base speed is actually decent in ubers so Kyurem-B does get the chance to setup more often than you'd think.
    Thanks to its resistances and base speed, Kyurem-B easily gets free turns against a plethora of ubers, who swiftly switch out expecting choice banded Outrages.
  11. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  12. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
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    FYI the whole point of Rock Smash isn't to 2HKO Ferrothorn, its to smack Ferrothorn on the switch so then you can 2HKO it later with Outrage. Sure its Rock Smash.. but Black Kyurem's fucking desperate when it comes to movepool so the last move on CB is ALWAYS going to be situational. Also, this isn't totally ruined by Protect like Freeze Shock is, and makes hazards to beat Ferrothorn less needed!

    Anyways, the analysis isn't going to be overly negative, as it will focus mostly on why you'd use Black Kyurem over other Uber Dragons. Admittedly, Black Kyurem isn't going to fit on a lot of teams, but its nowhere NEAR as bad as a lot of people are saying lol.

    Finally, I was considering testing some sort of Sub Dragontail set, but you aren't sweeping with Dragon Tail, and if you get rid of Hone Claws, Zekrom honestly sounds more appealing because of that awesome Bolt Strike and better typing.
  13. Complications

    Complications

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    It's rather funny. I was actually going to suggest a mixed set until I saw that you already had an almost identical one up. However, might I suggest saying in other options that you could run 252 SAtk/252Spe if you're not running HP fire, do that Kyurem can at least speed tie with Rayquaza? Also I'd suggest slashing Focus Blast and HP Fire with Draco Meteor.

    On an irrelevant note, all I could say was wow when I realized Kyurem B's unboosted base attack is higher than a max attack Arceus.
  14. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Okay, something I've been trying out which I think is pretty cool:

    [SET]
    Name: Mixed Hone Claws
    Move 1: Hone Claws
    Move 2: Outrage
    Move 3: Blizzard
    Move 4: Fusion Bolt
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Lonely
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    I've been running this with Kingdra and it works really well. It easily pumps about 60% damage to Ferrothorn with +1 Outrage, which lets you take it down a lot easier later. It also destroys every weather inducer out there too. Since Hone Claws ups your accuracy, Kyurem-B can afford to run Blizzard, which lets you take out stuff like Groudon, Ground Arceus, Gliscor and other physically bulky Pokemon. Since you run Hone Claws, a lot of people might get the impression you're just a physical attacker, thus they keep Groudon in and get wiped off the map by Blizzard. Even +1 Outrage would fuck Groudon up pretty bad anyway.
  15. trickroom

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    I think shrang's set should be added into the analysis. I just tried the set earlier today, its good for punching holes into teams. Sucks a bit versus offense but Kyurem-B can use Blizzard something Zekrom cannot do. I don't think the set is too similar to the Mixed set because you are using Hone Claws to set up and Blizzard is something special.

    [Blizzard OHKOes Groudon, Gliscor (rare but it still counts), Landorus-T, all potentially problematic to Zekrom ]and scares off Grass or Ground Arceus. Even without investment Groudon is facing an OHKO from Blizzard unless it is Specially bulk. Further Special Attack investment is not worth it because Kyurem-B will be spamming Outrage to KO things most of the time.

    +1 Fusion Bolt can still OHKO Lugia while max HP Ghost/Grass/Ground Arceus is KOed by +1 Outrage. (Zekrom's OHKO is not guaranteed) Even Steel Arceus does not enjoy +1 Fusion Bolt too much. Kyurem-B scares away Grass Arceus and Ground Arceus will rarely switch in, so that counts as a little advantage over Hone Claws Zekrom.

    Running Naughty > Lonely gives you a better chance to survive a +2 Arceus ExtremeSpeed. Lonely is generally better. The thing I don't like about the set is Blizzard missing when you are without Hone Claws. Sometimes Kyurem-B comes out the same time as Groudon, Blizzard misses a lot sadly.
  16. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    shrang's set is good. It really enjoys Wobbuffet's support; it can Encore a setup move, or a status move, then Safeguard or eliminate Choice Scarf users. That set also reeeeeeaaaaaally like Paralysis support, so it won't be revenged by stuff like Terrakion, Rayquaza, and such.
  17. syrim

    syrim 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1

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    The abundance of set up chances Shrang's set could make use of justifies it. It functions best as a pure wall breaker, like Shrang said, as there are some common things it won't be getting past, but it can put large dents in them.


    I also agree with mixed being the first set. The ability to not as dependent on prediction, e.g. lowering your stats through something like dmeteor, or having to lock yourself in to beat your usual "checks" really justifies this pokemon's use over stuff like Zekrom or rayquaza, not taking into account it's speed advantage or good offensive typing respectively.
  18. Feel the Aura

    Feel the Aura

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    As and alternate item for the choice set or LO set, try Power Herb. It's great for murdering Ferrothorn with a charge free Freeze Shock
  19. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    I have been using shrang's Hone Claws set paired with Tailwind Rashiram with great results.

    The thing I don't like about the Reshiram+Kyurem-W offensive core posted in the Smog article this month is its redundancy.
    With Kyurem-B there is no such problem, as Reshiram attacks on the special side while Kyu-B on the physical side.
    On top of it Kyogre and Chansey/Blissey tend to screw up the Reshiram+Kyu-W core, while with Kyu-B you can actually use them as setup bait to use Hone Claws.

    Is Kyogre or a pink blob going to wall your Reshiram after you used Tailwind? No problem, just switch to Kyurem-B (which conveniently resists Kyogre's most powerful attacks and scares off the pink blobs) and use Hone Claws. You end up with +1 attack, +1 accuracy and +2 speed for two turns of pure murder. Wallbreaking doesn't get any better than this.
  20. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
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    Okay as a QC member and after talking about it to poppy and Jibaku, heres how I think the set order should go:

    Mixed
    Hone Claws
    Choice Band
    Choice Scarf

    Also after testing it... yeah Rock Smash should be slashed in on CB. yeah its SILLY, but so are Black Kyurem's movepool issues lol... and it did work exactly like I thought I said it would earlier!
  21. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Is this still going?
  22. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Yeah it's still going on. School and real life just caught up to me. Anyway, I'll see to writing this. If shrang wants to do Hone Claws, you're more than free to.
  23. Deathborn

    Deathborn

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    What about Stone Edge? It's night here so I'm super sleepy and haven't be able to work on it yet, but Stone Edge seems solid for Ho-Oh. However... It will still crumble to steel types.

    Move 1: Outrage
    Move 2: Freeze Shock
    Move 3: Fusion Bolt
    Move 4: Stone Edge

    Meh, heading to sleep.
  24. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    You can batter down Ho-Oh with Fusion Bolt or Outrage just fine. Stone Edge is pretty much a waste of moveslot because it hits nothing else relevant.
  25. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Okay, that sounds fine. I'm not really keen on writing up everything anyway, I'll do Hone Claws then.

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