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Kyurem Has 660 BST [Hail]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by HiImGrey, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. HiImGrey


    Aug 15, 2010
    Kyurem being BL is the most mind-boggling tiering ever: 660 BST, 130 Sp ATK combined with excellent coverage in just 2 high power moves with reliable recovery deserves more than BL. It also turns out I like playing anti-meta or just outright making difficult to use teams work, so Hail is a natural choice.

    This Hail team doesn't really abuse Hail outside of Kyurem's Blizzard, which in my opinion is the best way to run a Hail team -- too many abusers make a team that is very susceptible to Stealth Rock and also screwed if the weather war is lost. Instead, this team aims to cover up most weaknesses (because it's impossible to cover them all) with good type synergy.


    At first I kept losing, but after making some adjustments and getting more experience with the team, I think I have ended up with a decent team. It doesn't stop every threat reliably, but it does cover most of them with some prediction.


    Abomasnow @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
    Careful Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Leech Seed
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    SubSeed Abomasnow gives Abomasnow the most longevity, which is important considering Abomasnow's Stealth Rock weakness. Abomasnow really only comes in on resisted special hits, which do about 15% damage usually, so with if it loses 25% HP coming in, it can Leech Seed as the opponent switches out to regain some health, then Protect for more, and when factoring in Leftover recovery, it means Abomasnow can switch out to fight another day. Ice Shard gives the team revenge capabilities, although with only 4 ATK investment, Ice Shard will not OHKO, so Stealth Rock and passive damage from hail is very important to weaken opposing dragons.


    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Giga Drain
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes

    I think Tentacruel is the best spinner for hail due to it's Fire and Fighting resistance and the ability to soak up Toxic Spikes. Obviously I try not rely on Tentacruel to tank any attacks because of the importance of Rapid Spin for my team, but it does the trick when it has to. I am using Liquid Ooze over Rain Dish due to my hate for Conkeldurr, and Abomasnow usually does hail away the rain reliably. Giga Drain is filler, but hits Gastrodon on the switch quite hard and gives me some recovery, which is useful as Hail will be canceling out Black Sludge recovery.


    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power
    - Roar
    - Toxic

    Heatran is almost mandatory in a Hail team due to its fire immunity and dragon resistance, ability to tank Hurricanes and counter Genesect. It's insurance against Sun teams, which is actually quite important because Ninetales eats Abomasnow for breakfast. It also provides a bunch of other resistances.

    The only con for it's inclusion is that it adds an additional fighting weakness, which is why half my team resists or is immune to fighting attacks. Air Balloon is tempting to ward off ground attacks, but Leftover is necessary due to the passive damage from Hail. This Heatran set is pretty standard, so there's not much to say except it can't do anything to opposing Heatran carrying an Air Balloon.


    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP/ 180 Def / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock

    This is my main physical wall to relieve the stress from Tentacruel by also providing a fighting resistance. Stealth Rock is incredibly important to this team to weaken key threats, and luckily Gliscor is fast enough to set them up before being taunted most of the time. Taunt is an incredibly useful move when opposing Ferrothorn or Forretress think they can lay down stuff against me. Then I can U-turn to Heatran if they stay in or another counter if they switch out. U-turn is also incredibly useful as many Pokemon just can't do anything against Gliscor meaning they have to switch out, so I can send in a counter and they against are forced to switch out while racking up passive damage from Hail, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes.


    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Thunderbolt

    I have tried SubSplit and SubDisable variants prior to this set, but I have to say this set works by far the best. A key problem I had previously was that I would keep getting killed by opposing Pokemons that manage to set-up a Dragon Dance or something, or a fast powerful attacker that I simply could not wall, especially if it's late in the game and my team is not at full HP (the list is huge). Scarf Timid Gengar fixes all these problems by being faster than pretty much everything allowing me to revenge some stuff when necessary. I cannot stress the importance of Scarf Gengar to this team because it just checks so many Pokemon. I remember me outspeeding a +3 DD Dragonite once for the KO, which really says how much of the metagame it outspeeds.

    Another advantage of Scarf Gengar is that opposing Starmie will go straight to Rapid Spin thinking they can outspeed and KO Gengar if it switches in, only to be OHKO'd by Shadow Ball.

    The only downside is that each of the 4 moves have an immunity, but that usually is not a big problem because the 4 moves grant really good coverage, and I usually just really need to force something out.


    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 52 HP / 240 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Earth Power
    - Roost
    - Substitute

    Every Kyurem I have seen runs this set and for good reason: it's bulk and speed gives it the ability set up bulky Substitutes on a bunch of stuff. Blizzard and Earth Power from based 130 SAtk demolishes everything except for a few walls, in which case it can just PP stall it out. I have tried Life Orb over Leftovers but Stealth Rock weakness, Substitutes and Life Orb is just too much passive damage, whereas Leftover greatly enhances Kyurem's ability to set up Substitutes. Honestly this guy deserves more than BL because it's just so good. Once it sets up a Substitute something is dying or will be severely crippled.

    [[ == Threats == ]]

    Reuniclus: This is the biggest threat because with 1 Calm Mind, there's really nothing I can do to it without having a team member die or severely weakened. The best I can do is Roar it out with Heatran after taking a Focus Blast, or switch in Gengar and hope for a crit. Usually I try to stop it from setting up by predicting the switch into Gliscor and taunting it, but that doesn't always work. Unfortunately only Gliscor attacks physically on my team so Reuniclus can set up on most of my team with Magic Guard and Recover. I want to run a Scizor just to counter Reuniclus and also add a strong priority for revenge killing, but I cannot do that without eliminating another member (Gengar would not be needed as much for revenge killing, but I still need it as a spin blocker).

    Breloom: Honestly I have always hated this thing because it hits to hard and can Spore away a counter. Gliscor can only wall it, but can't do anything back. Gengar can revenge, and that's about it.

    Salamance: Outrage/Earthquake/Fire Blast/Dragon Dance means something on team is going to die. I need Stealth Rock, Hail damage + Ice Shard to kill it.

    Alakazam: I can Shadow Ball with Gengar, but if it has a Sash Gengar is going to die, then it can switch out when I try to Ice Shard with Abomasnow and then kill another team member when it eventually switches back in.

    Volcarona: If it runs HP Ground then my team is kinda screwed after +1 Quiver Dance. Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes and Hail is key to beating HP Ground variants.

    Pink Blobs: My only physical attacker is Gliscor meaning I really cannot KO it via brute force. I need to taunt it with Gliscor so it can't do anything and whittle it down, or PP Stall it with Kyurem, or Leech Seed it with Abomasnow to heal my team. I tried to set up Toxic Spikes ASAP when I see opposing Pink Blobs.
  2. PDC

    PDC this cruel thesis
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Mar 18, 2010

    This is a pretty nice Hail team and I really like the use of Kyurem, but you should consider some changes. Considering your big weakness to Volcarona, I suggest a slight change to Toxic on Tentacruel over Toxic Spikes which are not very effective in this metagame.

    Now I am sure you already know, but Reuniclus are tortures to face for this team, and can straight up 6-0 you with ease. It is for this reason I suggest changing up Gengar with Bulky SD Scizor to screw over both Blissey and Reuniclus. Along with non HP Fire Alakazam. Bulky SD Scizor gives you some momentum and an extra revenger, who can fire off strong Bullet Punches to help vs Salamence and Dragonite like Gengar did.

    sets (open)

    Scizor @ Leftovers | Technician
    252 HP / 40 Atk / 172 SDef / 44 Spe
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-Turn
    - Roost

    Good luck!
  3. Kidogo


    Feb 11, 2012
    Very nice hail team, they're always hard to construct due to hail's inherent weaknesses. A few suggestions:
    --You might want to consider a different set for abomasnow--an expert belt set with ice shard, wood hammer, hp fire, and either earthquake or protect in the last slot (eq for tran, protect for scouting scizor) works very well. This set can beat blissey and has a much stronger ice shard, which gives it much more attacking presence. Lefties can be used over expert belt if you really want recovery. If you want to stick with the same set, I'd recommend replacing ice shard with blizzard as without attack investment it will do very little and blizzard is much more useful given the higher base power.
    --I personally would use rain dish > liquid ooze because of the prevalence of rain teams, which will give tenta a little extra recovery. Conkeldurr won't be as much of a problem due to one of the changes i suggest below. Additionally, some worthwhile options for tenta over giga drain include knock off, protect (mostly for scouting), toxic, and blizzard. Feel free to stick with giga drain if you find that more useful though.
    --Tran looks good, see note at end.
    --On gliscor, I strongly suggest fitting a flying STAB somewhere on the set, in order to combat breloom and to give you a conkeldurr check. There are two ways to do this. The first is putting aerial ace somewhere, probably > u-turn. The second is to use a fling + acrobatics set. This allows you to poison one opponent and gives you access to a base 110 acrobatics. The problem here is that it requires two moveslots, meaning the set you'd want to run is fling + acrobat + earthquake + stealth rock, so you forgo taunt. I don't think this would be too much of a problem, but if it is then aerial ace might be the better option.
    --Other than swapping gengar for another pokemon, I recommend some moveslot changes. Trick would be very helpful for both reuniclus and blissey. HP [ice] will let you OHKO basically any dragon, which is good since those are your primary targets. The set I would suggest is shadow ball / thunderbolt / hidden power [ice] / trick.
    --Kyurem looks good!
    Overall, you seem pretty dragon-weak, given that any dragon packing EQ basically gets a couple KOs for free. A more offensive abomasnow set and thus stronger ice shard will definitely help in this regard, but you might also want to consider air balloon on heatran--as much as lefties are useful, this patches up a huge hole in the team. This also gives you a volc counter even if it has HP [ground].

    GL with the team!
  4. Asek


    Apr 28, 2012

    Not much to suggest here, just first off try Protect > Giga Drain on Tentacruel. An uninvested non STAB 75 base power move won't be hitting much hard, and Gastrodon can take that and just switch out anyway. Protect lets you stall out Toxic and Hail damage and can in general serve your Tentacruel far better than Giga Drain does. Giga Drain is only really helping you get past Gastrodon, who isn't that problematic for your big Kyurem anyway. Also use Rain Dish > Liquid Ooze has already mentioned as a way to help win the weather war against rain, as Tentacruel can take on a lot of the big rain sweepers when rain is up as otherwise they are very hard for your team to switch into.

    Kidogo hit the nail on the head with those Gengar changes, but I would opt for Hidden Power [FIRE] > [ICE]. This lets you nail Scizor and to a lesser extent Ferrothorn 100% of the time as they switch in as otherwise Scizor can get in for free and play mind game with a potential Pursuit or risk staying in and copping a quick death from Bullet Punch. Dragons will be hit hard enough by Shadow Ball after SR damage, and Ice Shard from Abomasnow will then be enough to finish them off.

    GL with the team

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