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Lanturn (BW2 Revamp - Written) QC 2/3

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Alfalfa, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    [​IMG]

    Approvals: SOMALIA, Ace Emerald

    [Overview]
    <p>The metagame has changed a lot since early BW, but Lanturn still holds its own in UU. Thanks to a unique Water/Electric typing and an ability in Volt Absorb, Lanturn holds key resistances in Fire, Ice, Flying, Water, and Electric type moves, allowing it to check several. Combine that with a large 125 base HP, and Lanturn is capable of checking several special threats in the metagame, such as Suicune, Raikou, Rotom-F, Rotom-H, Empoleon, Zapdos, and Chandelure. It also has key moves in its movepool, such as Thunder Wave and Heal Bell, that are always handy for a team to have. As a result, Lanturn can prove to be a very useful pokemon.</p>

    <p>However, the fish has some flaws. It is a little slow, but Lanturn's speed is not that bad, as it can still outrun most walls with investment. However, its low 58/76 defenses weigh down that high HP, which can limit its ability to take hits. Also, it lacks decent offensive presence without investment, and as a result, can easily be set up on. Its weaknesses to Grass and Ground-type moves, both of which are quite common in UU, really weigh it down. Its lack of recovery outside of Volt Absorb is the final nail in the coffin. As a result, Lanturn tends to be overlooked in favor of other specially bulky pokemon, such as Snorlax and Bronzong. However, despite these shortcomings, Lanturn's attributes can be useful to a UU team looking for its key traits.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Special Tank
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Heal Bell / Toxic
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Calm
    evs: 204 HP / 96 Def / 208 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Lanturn's most effective set. With its beefy HP and key resistances to Fire, Water, Flying, and Ice type moves, as well as an immunity to Electric types, it can check several special threats in the UU metagame, such as Suicune, Raikou, Rotom-F, Rotom-H, Empoleon, Togekiss, Zapdos, and Chandelure. Lanturn also has a good support movepool, allowing it to help out its teammates. Scald is a Water STAB that has a 30% chance to burn the opponent, which can cripple physically offensive threats (bar Guts Heracross) and prevent them from breaking through Lanturn. Volt Switch is a secondary STAB, and with Lanturn's lesser speed, can allow a teammate to come in safely. Heal Bell revitalizes the team, which can breath life back into a sweeper. With all of the bulky Pokemon in the metagame, it can prove to be a very useful move. Thunder Wave helps out slower offensive teammates, like Rhyperior or Scrafty, but is more notable for slowing down the opponent's momentum, which gives you a huge advantage. Toxic can also be used to wear down bulky Pokemon like Suicune and Blastoise.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The following spread ensures that Lanturn will not be 2HKOed by Life Orb Zapdos' Hidden Power Grass. EVs can be invested into Special Attack to increase Lanturn's offense, but it will still be relatively weak, and that detracts a lot from its bulk. In terms of additional moves, Protect causes Mienshao to crash from using Hi Jump Kick.</p>

    <p>Lanturn appreciates teammates that can cover its weaknesses. Togekiss synergizes well with Lanturn, taking the Grass and Ground-type moves that threaten Lanturn, whereas Lanturn can take the Electric and Ice-type moves that threaten Togekiss. Roserade sports a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves, and can lay down Spikes, both of which Lanturn appreciates. In return, Lanturn can redirect Ice-type moves for Roserade. Lanturn tends to be able to paralyze many top special threats, so offensive Pokemon that would appreciate them being paralyzed are good teammates: Rhyperior, Scrafty, Honchkrow, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Snorlax, and Swampert are good examples of Pokemon that appreciate the paralysis support. Most of them do not like untimely status conditions, especially burns, making Lanturn more useful to them with its Heal Bell support. Lanturn also tends to lure in a lot of Pokemon that Heracross can set up on using Moxie or Swords Dance, such as Abomasnow, Amoonguss, Clefable, Roserade, Shaymin, Snorlax, and Umbreon, making Heracross a good teammate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hydro Pump
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Scald
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 104 SpD / 152 Spe

    [Set Comments]
    <p>Despite a meager base 76 Special Attack, Choice Specs Lanturn is very unexpected, and can dish out quite a bit of damage. While Lanturn will have to detract from some of its bulk, it can still check threats like Suicune and Raikou, and hit them hard with the appropriate move. Hydro Pump is Lanturn's strongest STAB, and helps accommodate for Lanturn's lack of stopping power. Volt Switch is a secondary STAB that allows a teammate to come in, while keeping momentum on its side. Ice Beam has good coverage with Lanturn's Water and Electric STABs, hitting Grass and Dragon-types harder than anything else on this set. The final move is a filler, but it can still prove to be of use. Thunderbolt hits much harder than Volt Switch, and can be used to hit Suicune and Milotic harder. However, Scald is a 100% accurate Water STAB and can be used to bluff a defensive set, and although the unusually high damage output might give the opponent suspicions, the ability to burn the opponent can make Lanturn harder to wear down from the physical side.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>152 Speed EVs allows Lanturn to outpace three key threats: Blastoise, Togekiss, and Gligar; outspeeding Togekiss in particular allows Lanturn to not get flinched to death. Additional moves can be used in the fourth slot. Surf can be used in place of Scald, forgoing the burn chance for more power, but the ability to bluff a defensive set is better than some more power. Discharge can be used in place of Thunderbolt; a 20% higher paralysis chance versus 15 more base power is based on preference. Blizzard can be used in place of Ice Beam if Lanturn is on a hail team; however, keep in mind that the residual damage from hail will hurt Lanturn's bulk.</p>

    <p>While Lanturn hits hard with Choice Specs, it lacks stopping power, and appreciates some offensive support. Roserade and the Nidos have good synergy with Lanturn, offensive and defensively, and can lay down entry hazards to wear down the opponent further. Heracross and Mienshao can dispose of Snorlax and Umbreon, who would otherwise wall Lanturn. Togekiss has good synergy with Lanturn, being able to handle Grass-types for it, and can lure in Zapdos and Raikou for Lanturn to switch in on.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Thunder / Heal Bell
    move 4: Hydro Pump / Surf
    item: Damp Rock
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SAtk / 104 SpD / 152 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Thanks to an ability in Volt Absorb, as well as a good offensive movepool to use in rain, Lanturn can prove to be a useful rain setter. Though 76 base Special Attack looks meager in such a bulky metagame, Lanturn's STABs make up for it. Volt Switch is not particularly strong, but it allows Lanturn to switch into a teammate safely. Thunder is a powerful STAB that Lanturn can abuse in the rain with 100% accuracy. However, Heal Bell is a very rare and useful move in UU that can be used to clear rain sweepers from debilitating status conditions. Rain abusers like Kabutops and Kingdra would greatly appreciate that utility. The final move is a Water STAB; Hydro Pump hits absurdly hard off of STAB and rain. Surf is much weaker, but more accurate.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs maximize Special attack, and the 152 Speed EVs allow Lanturn to outspeed defensive Togekiss so it can avoid getting flinched to death by Air Slash. The rest of the EVs are invested into HP to give Lanturn some additional bulk. Ice Beam can be used some place on this set, but the only Grass- type Lanturn is hitting hard is Roserade. In order rain teams to succeed, Abomasnow removal needs to be available; teammates like Heracross and Mienshao can dispose of Abomasnow. After Abomasnow is removed, the rain abusing can begin. Rain abusers like Kingdra, Ludicolo, and Tornadus are good teammates for Lanturn. Speaking of Tornadus, it is a very good teammate for Lanturn. It can set up priority Rain Dance, courtesy of Prankster. It also has U-turn to lure in Electric-types and bring them into Lanturn for Volt Absorb. Tornadus also has access to a very powerful STAB Hurricane, which is boosted up to 100% accuracy in rain, and with a 30% confusion chance, is hard to pass up. Nidoking and Nidoqueen like a 100% accurate Thunder to abuse, and have decent synergy with Lanturn. Secondary rain setters, like Bronzong, Xatu, and Sableye are good teammates to take pressure off of Lanturn, because having only one manual rain setter for a rain team is just a huge liability.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Lanturn has a moderate-sized movepool, so some other options are out there. Blizzard can be used on the Special tank set instead of Ice Beam if Lanturn is being used on a hail team, but Lanturn really does not like the hail negating its Leftovers recovery. Lanturn is not a bad RestTalk user, and can repeatedly check Raikou and Zapdos throughout the match. It will suffer from a really bad case of four-moveslot syndrome though. Substitute + Charge Beam is not as good as it was in DPP; despite having a large HP stat that only requires 52 HP EVs to create 101 HP substitutes, Lanturn is not strong enough at +1 to sweep, and it lacks a lot of the speed it needs to sweep. Discharge can be used for the 30% paralysis chance on the Special Tank set, though on the Rain Dance set, it is completely outclassed by Thunder, which also has a 30% paralysis chance, yet higher power. Do not even try to use Agility on Lanturn to sweep, as it lacks the power to do so. Finally, Aqua Ring and ParaFusion are gimmicky strategies, but on occasion, can pull in results.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Lanturn's low defenses, lack of recovery outside of Volt Absorb, and two common weaknesses bring up a small list of crippling counters. Abomasnow is the biggest pain in the neck to Lanturn; it can replace rain with permanent hail, is neutral to Ice Beam, resists its Water and Electric STABs, and can use Giga Drain or Wood Hammer on it for heavy damage. Of course, burns and paralysis are not fun, but Abomasnow can manage. Lanturn walls itself because of its ability in Volt Absorb, especially if it carries Heal Bell. Grass-types that are not Abomasnow, like Roserade and Shaymin, need to watch for Ice Beam, but they can destroy Lanturn as well with their STABs. Lanturn walls itself because of its ability in Volt Absorb. Snorlax and Umbreon can take Lanturn's attacks like they are nothing, though the former needs to watch for Scald. Grounds like Swampert and Nidoking need to watch out for Hydro Pump or Scald, but can deal super effective damage to Lanturn with STAB, and can preventing it from using Volt Switch for easy momentum. Krookodile in particular can use Lanturn to start a Moxie sweep. Choice Band and Swords Dance Heracross can take special hits and do not mind being Poisoned or Burned, courtesy of Guts. Strong attackers, like Mienshao and Choice Specs Chandelure, can exploit Chandelure's low base Defense and Special Defense stats to muscle through it. Last, but not least, Toxic Spikes wear Lanturn down little by little, limiting its playing time a lot.</p>

    Skeleton (open)

    *Metagame has changed much since BW, but Lanturn can hold its own in UU
    *Unique Water/Electric typing gives it key resistances to Fire, Ice, Flying, and Water type moves, and it holds Volt Absorb, allowing it to be a decent check to several special attackers in the metagame
    *Base 125 base HP allows it to absorb hits relatively well
    *Access to key support moves such as Thunder Wave and Heal Bell in a bulky metagame is very useful
    *Crappy 58/67 defenses undermine its colossal HP stat
    *Grass and Ground-type moves are common, and can ram through it
    *Slow, though its speed is not as bad as you would think
    *Lacks decent offensive presence, which can make it setup fodder

    *Key immunities and beefy HP allows it to check special threats like Suicune, Raikou, Rotom-F, Rotom-H, Empoleon, Togekiss, Zapdos and Chandelure
    *Scald has burn chance that prevents physical threats from breaking through Lanturn, bar Guts Heracross
    *Volt Switch can bring in a teammate unharmed
    *Heal Bell to revitalize teammates. Not many pokemon have access to either Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, and the ability to clear its teammates of status is too hard to pass up.
    *However, Toxic can be used to wear down some of the threats Lanturn checks, like Suicune and Raikou
    *Thunder Wave for slowing down opponents. With so many slow offensive Pokemon in the tier, such as Rhyperior and Scrafty, the teammates will appreciate Lanturn's support. With Lanturn's great special bulk, it is capable of slowing down all of those threats it checks, putting momentum in your favor

    *Spread prevents Lanturn from being 2HKOd by LO Zapdos' HP Grass
    *Lanturn will still be relatively weak with SpA EVs
    *Protect allows Mienshao to crash from Hi-Jump Kick
    *Togekiss synergizes well with Lanturn, taking Grass and Ground-type moves, whereas Lanturn takes BoltBeam
    *Roserade can take Grass type moves, and can lay down Spikes, which Lanturn appreciates. Also, Lanturn takes Ice-type moves for Roserade
    *The ability to paralyze top threats is definitely something offensive teams, slow ones in particular, would want. Good offensive teammates include Scrafty, Rhyperior, Honchkrow, , Nidoking, Snorlax, and Swampert
    *Heracross is a good teammate with Lanturn, as the fish lures in a lot of Pokemon Heracross can start up a sweep on with Moxie or Swords Dance, such as Abomasnow, Amoonguss, Clefable, Roserade, Shaymin, Snorlax, and Umbreon.

    *Specs Lanturn is quite unexpected, and can dish out damage, despite base 76 SpA
    *Hydro Pump is strong STAB that will surprise the opponent
    *Volt Switch is secondary STAB that allows a teammate to come in
    *Ice Beam has good coverage with water and electric
    *Thunderbolt offers a stronger electric STAB than vswitch, whereas Scald is a 100% accurate water STAB that has a cool burn chance, allowing it to bluff a defensive set.

    *152 Speed EVs outrun defensive Togekiss and Gligar
    *Surf can be used in place of Scald, but the ability to bluff a defensive set is better than some more power.
    *Discharge can be used in place of Thunderbolt; 20% higher paralysis chance versus 15 more BP
    *Roserade and Nidoking/queen have good synergy with Lanturn, and can lay down hazards to wear opponent further
    *Heracross and Mienshao can kill Snorlax and Umbreon, who would otherwise wall Lanturn
    *Blizzard over Ice Beam if Lanturn is being used in hail, though the residual damage from hail will hurt Lanturn's bulk
    *Togekiss has good synergy with Lanturn, and can lure in Zapdos and Raikou

    *Volt Absorb, good movepool for rain
    *Volt Switch allows a teammate to come in somewhat safely
    *STAB Thunder with 100% accuracy hits hard
    *Heal Bell is a rare and awesome move that clears rain sweepers of debilitating status conditions. Rain teammates like Kabutops and Kingdra would greatly appreciate Lanturn's ability to fit it into its moveset
    *Hydro Pump is absurdly strong in rain, Surf is weaker but more accurate

    *152 Speed EVs allow Lanturn to speedcreep on Defensive Togekiss
    *Ice Beam only 2HKOs Roserade, of all Grass types.
    *Abomasnow removal from pokemon like Heracross and Mienshao is appreciated
    *Rain abusers like Kingdra and Ludicolo are appreciated
    *Tornadus can set up Rain Dance and has the added bonus of possessing Prankster as its ability; U-Turn allowing it to divert Electric-type moves to Lanturn and get a free health boost. Its STAB Hurricane is also very powerful, is boosted to 100% in rain, and can confuse the opponent, making it hard to pass up.
    *Nidoking and Nidoqueen like a 100% accurate Thunder to abuse, and have good synergy with Lanturn
    *Secondary rain setters to remove pressure from Lanturn is appreciated; Bronzong, Xatu, Sableye, etc.

    *Blizzard can be used if Lanturn is being used in hail, especially over Ice Beam, though the residual damage is not very friendly to Lanturn, negating Leftovers
    *Lanturn is not a bad ResTalk user, as it can repeatedly check special threats throughout the game, especially Zapdos and Raikou
    *SubCharge is not as good as it was in DPP; despite a larger HP stat reducing the need for several HP EVs, Lanturn is not very strong after +1 to sweep, and it lacks the speed to do so.
    *Don't even use Agility; it lacks enough power to sweep
    *Discharge can be used instead of Thunderbolt for 30% paralysis chance; however, on the rain set, it is completely outclassed by Thunder, which has the same paralysis chance, but much more power.

    *Abomasnow is neutral to Ice Beam, resists Lanturn's STABs, can remove rain, and cain KO with Grass STABs.
    *Virizion, Roserade and Shaymin all possess the bulk to live an Ice Beam and destroy Lanturn with their Grass-type attacks.
    *Lanturn can wall Lanturn due to its ability, though Toxic is annoying.
    *Snorlax and Umbreon take Lanturn's attacks like they are nothing, though the former needs to watch for Scald
    *Grounds like Swampert and Nidoking need to watch for Scald or Hydro Pump, but can also hammer Lanturn, and prevent it from using Volt Switch to gain momentum
    *Krookodile can use Lanturn to start a Moxie sweep
    *Choice Band and Swords Dance Heracross can take special hits and do not mind being burned, couretesy of Guts
    *Strong attackers, like Choice Specs Chandelure and Mienshao, can take advantage of the poor defense stat to muscle past Lanturn
    *Toxic Spikes wear Lanturn down little by little

    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
    Magcargo 2 and Spirit like this.
  2. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2 Trickster with the sweet specs
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    This analysis has a large amount of flaws. The Set Comments and AC are extremely short and barely explain what the set does. Furthermore, a most of the sentences barely make sense (i.e.Weaknesses to Grass and Ground-type moves are common). I'm not a QC member, but I think this analysis may get rejected.

    (I apologize if I was pre-moderating).
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  3. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    I have not even gotten the entire thing up, so yes, you are pre-moderating.
  4. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    If you haven't gotten this done, then please put (WIP) in the title. Also, you should really change some of the wordings, such as the one that Magcargo 2 pointed out.
    Magcargo 2 likes this.
  5. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    well, you should've written up the whole skeleton before you posted it. If you put it up to get help with it, it would have been a better idea to contact a UU QC member to get some help on writing the skeleton itself. all rushing does is give off the appearance of you not really caring about what you are trying to write about, and makes the quality of your work much lower

    Now, as for the skeleton itself, there is many flaws with it as Magcargo said. The biggest b issue i see is that it barely explains what the sets are supposed to do, what Pokemon are trouble to each set, and what teammates are useful to counteract these problems. For example, on SubCharge:

    Is this an efficient Ev spread? Can you take some EVs from either Special Defence or Special Attack and put them in speed to outspeed certian threats? If so, is it worth reaching these threats with the required amount of speed EVs? These questions you need to answer in your additional comments and do some calcs to determine the best EV spread because it looks like you just took the defence EVs from the special tank and put them in Special Attack.

    No, Surf is not your secondary STAB. It is your strongest move and should really be considered your primary STAB move (Charge Beam is piss weak even with boosts).

    So what 2Hkos and OHKOs can I achieve with Thunder? What move would I put Thunder over on the moveset? just saying a single word as a point is useless as it gives anyone reading it no information at all where they could use it and what the pros and cons are for it. Also, why is Scald slashed? In the Rain, you want as much power as you can get so you can abuse the limited turns you have, which Hydro Pump / Surf do better then Scald.

    Actually, Lanturn would like Toxic because it would help immensely in beating Calm Mind Suicune, especially if you are using Volt Switch because Suicune can just Calm Mind up on Lanturn, making Volt Switch deal diddily-squat and eventually get 2HKOed by Hydro Pump. On a related note, Thunderbolt needs to be in at least the AC of the tank set because it allows Lanturn to actually hit bulky Waters for good damage without making it switch out.

    These are just some of the flaws I've noticed with the analysis. I may not be QC, but you should seriously consider them and work on imporving the skeleton in both a content and grammer-wise sense.
  6. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Fletchinder FTW
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    I'm not a QC member, but I'll weigh in my two cents.

    [Overview]
    • Emphasize that this thing's rare typing gives it a lot of use defensively; checking prominent threats such as Chandelure, Raikou, Zapdos, etc.
    • I wouldn't say that it's the only viable Electric-type with Ice Beam since that's kinda irrelevant
    • Mention it has a nice support movepool to support its team
    • Emphasize that it's weak as shit, so it gets set up on
    • This thing doesn't have any reliable recovery so it has issues with being worn down over time
    [Tank]
    • Change the EVs to 204 HP / 96 Def / 208 SpD; for the same reasons as in RU, this thing needs to be able to endure at least two HP Grasses from Zapdos, while taking a Flare Blitz from Darmanitan
    • Slash Heal Bell with Ice Beam, Heal Bell and T-Wave is just so valuable and what makes Lanturn good
    [Tank AC]
    • Replace Gligar with Roserade; no one uses Gligar and it sucks
    • Explain the item choice and why Volt Absorb is the preferred ability (Tip: to allow Lanturn to check Zapdos and Raikou while giving it some form of recovery)
    • Add Protect because it is very useful to cause Mienshao to crash and scouts Choice mons; also allows Lanturn an extra turn of Leftovers
    [RD]
    • Remove the Scald slash; this is a primarily offensive set and burns are irrelevant
    • Mention Volt Absorb is why Lanturn is a great Rain Dancer; it gives an Electric immunity to help rain teams
    • Slash Thunder before Ice Beam because it gives Lanturn a strong and reliable STAB
    • The EV spread there is tailored for the RU metagame, I would change it to something to at least be able to outspeed minimum Speed Blastoise
    [RD AC]
    • I'd mention Kingdra over Ludicolo, Ludicolo isn't bad, but Kingdra is probably the best rain abuser in the tier
    • Don't mention the need to survive Night Shade/Stoss; Registeel and Dusclops aren't common enough to make that necessary
    • Add that Nidoking and Nidoqueen have okay synergy with Lanturn
    • I would say that anything appreciates entry hazards, so mentioning SR is not necessary
    • Mention secondary rain users to put less pressure on Lanturn (Bronzong imo)
    [SubCharge]
    • To be honest I'm not convinced that this set even works anymore. I'd honestly put it in OO.
    [OO]
    • RestTalk isn't that bad on Lanturn since it can repeatedly check Zapdos and Raikou throughout the match, and although RestTalk isn't a good idea on most mons Lanturn has Heal Bell to wake itself up. it might be set worthy but idk what QC says
    • Again, Toxic stalling is nice on Lanturn to wear down bulky mons
    • I'd also mention LO alongside Choice Specs
    [C&C]
    • You don't need to mention that Roserade/Shaymin fear Ice Beam because Lanturn's Ice Beam is weak
    • Mention Krookodile alongside Nidoking and Flygon, because Krookodile can use Lanturn as a freeway to a Moxie sweep
    • Mention its physical defense is exploitable but watch out for Scald
    • Mention Spikes+SR because Lanturn gets fucked pretty hard by those because it has no recovery
    That's what I've got.
  7. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    Ready for QC checks.
  8. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    why is this written up when it has exactly 0 qc checks??
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  9. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    I am not too saavy with the smogon analyses rules... I was supposed to write after the qc checks?
  10. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
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    You need 2 QC checks before you write it up
  11. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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  12. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    Seriously? We discussed over PM that if you fucked up once, you'd be permanently banned from UU C&C, and you couldn't even be bothered to read the rules? On top of that, your reaction is "whoops"... come the fuck on dude, wake up.

    I'll give you one more shot just because this analysis really does need a revamp and you're going to have to completely overhaul this thing anyway, but seriously, one more fuck up and you're done, savvy?

    Anyway, here's the sets that should get put on site:

    Lanturn @ Choice Specs
    Modest
    Volt Absorb
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt / Scald

    EVs should probably be max SpA with some Speed to beat some wall, maybe Gligar, then the rest in SpD because this thing already has massive HP.

    Lanturn @ Leftovers
    Calm
    Volt Absorb
    - Scald
    - Volt Switch
    - Heal Bell / Toxic / Thunder Wave
    - Heal Bell / Toxic / Thunder Wave (figure out the order and stuff)

    RestTalk with Heal Bell should go in AC (drop Volt Switch, obviously) and the EVs you're going to need to figure out and convince QC they're good. Dunno how "ok" the one's you have atm are.
    Magcargo 2 likes this.
  13. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    I was a little cocky earlier, sorry about that kokoloko. 152 Speed EVs do outrun Gligar, but outrunning Togekiss is also very important so you do not get flinched to death.

    EDIT: That prematurely-written stuff was deleted and moved to a document in my computer.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  14. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Professional
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    All descriptions need more work, it needs to go into detail about how thunder wave supports the team, rarity and value of heal bell users, great defensive typing and immunity allowing it to check some of the best pokemon in the metagame, and specify which, and this is all the first paragraph of the first set.
  15. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    Added more description
  16. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    UU has a good number of Pokemon which hit a nice speed stat (Alot of the most notorious offensive Pokemon are base 85 or more) and besides the sentence sounds like slow attackers will really care about paralysis (Think Escavlier).

    *Due to Lanturn's poor Speed stat, Volt Switch will almost always allow a team member to switch-in safely.

    I'd like you to make some note on the Pokemon that lanturn lures in, as this is essential for players who have not used it before.

    It lures (but not limited to): Abomasnow, Amoongus, Clefable, Roserade, Shaymin, Snorlax, Umbreon

    Basically you can touch on how it can v-switch on those Pokemon and create an opening for Scarf Heracross to get a Moxie sweep/SD Heracross to get some damage going.

    Speed-wise on the more offensive sets, enough to outpace annoying ass Togekiss is good enough for me.

    Rain dance additional comments:

    You can add:

    *Tornadus can set up Rain Dance and has the added bonus of possessing Prankster as its ability; U-Turn allowing it to divert Electric-type moves to Lanturn and get a free health boost.

    Checks & Counters section:

    *Virizion, Roserade and Shaymin all possess the bulk to live an Ice Beam and destroy Lanturn with their Grass-type attacks.
    *Lanturn can wall Lanturn due to its ability.
    *Powerful Behemoths such as Mienshao and Heracross can exploit Lanturn's poor physical Defense stat and punch right through it.

    Entry hazards need not be mentioned, you can just instead emphasis that Toxic Spikes really limits what Lanturn can do.

    Just try to give examples of the actual Pokemon as it wold help the reader.

    I think once these are changes are made, i will most likely Stamp it, good job!
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  17. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    Changes made
  18. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Nice one, QC APPROVED 1/3
  19. Ace Emerald

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    A few nitpicks, just be sure to mention that Scald really cripples physical attackers that can break through it otherwise (except Guts Cross), and that Volt Switch gives Heracross a lot of momentum against the threats you mentioned in the AC. Mention that Heal Bell clears the Rain sweepers of an otherwise crippling status. Snorlax and Umbreon should be counters, just mention that the former must watch out for Scald. Mention that SD and CB Cross don't fear status in the AC and have the bulk to take a special hit. Nidoqueen should be listed beside Nidoking, and I'd expand the point on Ground-types to say that they prevent Spec Lanturn from spamming Volt Switch for momentum. I'd also suggest taking the slash away from Ice Beam in Rain Dance cause the only Grass-type it's even 2HKOing is Offensive Roserade, move it to AC. Do those things, I'll run it down again with maybe some more nitpicks, then stamp it.
  20. Ernesto

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    I'm not exactly sure why this is getting approved when there's a set kokoloko said shouldn't be added?? Maybe I misunderstood his post, but he said
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    Unless there was some discussion I missed, that set should be further discussed to see if it really warrants a spot. I personally prefer Seismitoad as a specific playstyle Electric immunity (which also gets SR), but since it doesn't have an analysis I'm willing to see if Lanturn is good enough.

    EDIT: @Ace Emerald Seismitoad has Swift Swim, duh :P I meant, if we were going to use a specific playstyle set as that of DR Tornadus, for example, because of the Electric immunity, I'd rather use Seismitoad over Lanturn since it also sets up rocks. Frankly, in a Rain team I'd rather use Toad over Pert even if the latter is stronger, so I'm not sure what Swampert does on a full Rain team, lol.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  21. Ace Emerald

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    You're referring the the Rain set right? I was going to post to drop it but scanning the thread I didn't see anyone else suggest it so I figured they knew something I didn't lol, sorry about that. Yeah drop Rain, I'd rather use Torny-Zap-Kingdra or several mons before I went to Lanturn, I don't think it deserves a Rain Dance set.

    ps what the hell does Seismitoad do that Swampert doesn't @.@ it's water absorb duh
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  22. Nas

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    Before I can check this you need to re-add the Rain Dance set, QC talked and decided it needs to be discussed further before a decision is made.
  23. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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  24. Ace Emerald

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    These nitpicks still haven't been implemented. Additionally: in Rain Dance AC, Torny needs mention of its powerful and hard to resist Hurricane. Rain sweepers aren't appreciated, they're why anyone uses a rain team.
  25. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

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    I thought I had it added. Put it in.

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