Metagame Last Will

New Clause
Your team may not have more than 2 of any of these moves: Hydro Cannon, Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn, Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, V-Create, Explosion.
should point out that you forgot about focus punch, since when activated with last will, it's just a really powerful 150BP fighting type move, similar to the others here.

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as an addition other than that, though: what do y'all think of mirror move as a LW move? i've been running it on tapu koko, since i don't want to spend a slot on the clause on it, but i still want it to revenge kill pokemon like excadrill with their own EQ.
 
I've tried it and it's mostly garbage, because you will probably be killed by the last will of the mon that is trapped and/or the mon that comes in next, while you sacrificed your durant and lost your dugtrio.
You seem to forget that Durant can, even with Truant, cripple the opposing mon with Thunder Wave and gain momentum with Baton Pass. I ran this core in one of my teams, but gave Dugtrio Stealth Rocks instead of Hone Claws, so that I could at least remove the one trapped mon and get Stealth Rocks out safely. But yeah, it is only a gimmick, as Dugtrio usually dies to the opponent's Last Will.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I personally run Durant with Eject Button and Dugtrio with Sub/Protect/HC/Earthquake and remove the Flying Types before attempting to sweep. I personally managed to grab 3 kills pretty often and it was not that rare that my Durant survived longer than my Dugtrio. I had much more problems with random Z-Moves and killing the flying stuff than with pulling that Entrainment Duggy combo off and with dealing with these Last Wills.
 
I haven't tried it yet, but if any Durant set is going to work well, it's this one:

Dugtrio @ Darkinium Z / Groundium Z
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Hone Claws
- Night Slash / Earthquake

Durant @ Eject Button
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Filler
- Filler
- Filler
- Entrainment

The strategy is simple: send Durant in against a slower mon, use Entrainment, survive a hit, Eject Button switch to Dugtrio. Protect whenever they have a turn to attack, set up a substitute, then kill them. Switch out once your substitute breaks (usually from their last will, unless you're immune or it misses) or if they send in something that can bypass substitute or that you can't hurt. Later in the battle (ideally when you've taken out anything that can wall Dugtrio), sacrifice Durant to trap something else. Alternate Protect and setup moves until you're at +6 with a substitute, then kill the trapped mon. Most likely Dugtrio will be able to get a third kill off either before or as it dies. So if it works, you've gotten three kills at the cost of two mons, which in this meta isn't bad.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I personally run Durant with Eject Button and Dugtrio with Sub/Protect/HC/Earthquake and remove the Flying Types before attempting to sweep. I personally managed to grab 3 kills pretty often and it was not that rare that my Durant survived longer than my Dugtrio. I had much more problems with random Z-Moves and killing the flying stuff than with pulling that Entrainment Duggy combo off and with dealing with these Last Wills.
lemme just ask tho, how is this eject button durant/duggy better or any different than the same core in OU? because it never gets used in ou for good reason
 
lemme just ask tho, how is this eject button durant/duggy better or any different than the same core in OU? because it never gets used in ou for good reason
In OU, you really can't get an Entrainment off. In this meta however, dying equals Entrainment. As many people know this, they don't like to kill Durant and hold back. So Durant generally lasts longer and gets multiple Entrainments off. Also, OU Durant needs Eject Button to be intact to do anything useful, while here, Eject Button is just nice utility to do something without losing momentum, like pivoting or revenge killing stuff with physical moves as Last Will (Durant will likely survive a neutral physical move and get to low health, thanks to it's average physical bulk). This is at least my expirience from toying with it.
 
New Last Will Change
Last Will's are only able to be activated if the Pokemon could normally perform the move.

New Clause
Your team may not have more than 2 of any of these moves: Hydro Cannon, Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn, Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, V-Create, Explosion.
I've tried to implement these on ROM, although I think your Last Will simply fails if you can't normally perform the move.
 
lemme just ask tho, how is this eject button durant/duggy better or any different than the same core in OU? because it never gets used in ou for good reason
In OU, if you are fast enough and powerful enough, you don't need to be able to take a hit, so fast sweepers are common and thus Durant and Dugtrio are relatively slow. In Last Will, mons are forced to take a hit when they kill something, so there's more incentive to run bulky offense rather than fast and frail, and thus Durant and Dugtrio are relatively fast. And for the same reason, setup sweepers are not as common in Last Will as in OU, which results in Unaware being less common than in OU. Since both mons rely on having a speed advantage, the different speed tiers of the different metas makes a huge difference in viability. And while there are multiple viable Unaware mons in OU that can wall Dugtrio, there are very few viable mons in Last Will that can wall it. So basically it's more viable here than in OU because the mons that can beat it are more viable in OU than here.
 
Honestly, i don't see the problem w/ explosion, V-Create, blast burn, frenzy plant, etc. it's only really been a problem for me on the first day, after that i came up with these two:


Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Power Whip
- Outrage

ripped strait from the CB set but with an AV, you could run special as well, but i Prefer physical for sap sipper boosts



Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Stealth Rock

Bonemerang is to break sashes on alolems and sturdy boomers in general, as they normally are rock or steel type


I've been slapping these two on every team and they've tanked what they need to every time.


also:

Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance
- Spore


when using frailer teams, this helps a lot, as it has priority to outspeed, bullet seed to break sturdy boomers, and spore does what it has always done and stops other offensive mons sweeping your team in their tracks. it can even get a setup of its own with SD
 
chartung17 no offense but no thats not true at all lol, this meta is literally perfect for ghosts (due to explosion spam) and mons that dont touch the floor (due to hazard spam) neither of which can be trapped, along with mons that can get out of lock turn 1 by exploding and now this gen can also use z-moves to break through protect. you can switch around entrainment durant as many times you want and set up hazards til the end of time because every time you dont hit it you get a free turn afterwards. if you are vsing a stall team this core is literally -2 teamslots which is really devastating. this gen this combination got even worse because z-moves go through protect and something like bloom doom from heatran will ohko your dugtrio through protect with a single spike or toxspike down. the success also totally relies on your opponent looking at team preview, seeing durant and dugtrio on the same team and then just proceeding to not activate their brain for the remainder of the match. im not saying you cant cheese some matches but honestly this should only work against bad players when you are running a no-damage item no-hustle durant with bug/steel coverage and they arent able to switch around it and gain a huge momentum. if they even just press substitute (doubly common in this metagame) on any durant switch-in the game is pretty much over for you also.
 
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This is intentional.
Same happens when you spin against a Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs/Rough Skin mon and die from the recoil damage.

Other moves like Koff (doesn't remove item) or Dragon Tail (doesn't phaze) behave identical.
 
chartung17 no offense but no thats not true at all lol, this meta is literally perfect for ghosts (due to explosion spam) and mons that dont touch the floor (due to hazard spam) neither of which can be trapped, along with mons that can get out of lock turn 1 by exploding and now this gen can also use z-moves to break through protect. you can switch around entrainment durant as many times you want and set up hazards til the end of time because every time you dont hit it you get a free turn afterwards. if you are vsing a stall team this core is literally -2 teamslots which is really devastating. this gen this combination got even worse because z-moves go through protect and something like bloom doom from heatran will ohko your dugtrio through protect with a single spike or toxspike down. the success also totally relies on your opponent looking at team preview, seeing durant and dugtrio on the same team and then just proceeding to not activate their brain for the remainder of the match. im not saying you cant cheese some matches but honestly this should only work against bad players when you are running a no-damage item no-hustle durant with bug/steel coverage and they arent able to switch around it and gain a huge momentum. if they even just press substitute (doubly common in this metagame) on any durant switch-in the game is pretty much over for you also.
You completely misread my posts. Look again, I never said Durant was viable. I merely suggested a set that is almost certainly superior to any other Truant Durant set in this meta, said what happens if it works (I said nothing about how likely it is to actually work), and gave reasons why it is more viable here than OU (which does not imply that it's actually viable here). Your post doesn't really respond to those points. Yes, there may be more mons that can't be trapped here than in OU, but that just means you shouldn't try to trap untrappable mons, which I might not have explicitly said but it should go without saying. I'll admit I didn't consider Z-moves, but I doubt that would be more of a problem here than OU. So you don't have a single good point against anything I've actually said. And by the way, I agree with you that it probably isn't viable, that's why I haven't tried it yet.
 
You completely misread my posts. Look again, I never said Durant was viable. I merely suggested a set that is almost certainly superior to any other Truant Durant set in this meta, said what happens if it works (I said nothing about how likely it is to actually work), and gave reasons why it is more viable here than OU (which does not imply that it's actually viable here). Your post doesn't really respond to those points. Yes, there may be more mons that can't be trapped here than in OU, but that just means you shouldn't try to trap untrappable mons, which I might not have explicitly said but it should go without saying. I'll admit I didn't consider Z-moves, but I doubt that would be more of a problem here than OU. So you don't have a single good point against anything I've actually said. And by the way, I agree with you that it probably isn't viable, that's why I haven't tried it yet.

at the end of your post you said: "basically its more viable here than in ou" to which i replied that this was false and listed a ton of reasons why, because the set has both positives (which you listed) and negatives which i listed to counterbalance those positives. so yes i did not challenge the ways the metagame affects it positively, but instead listed ways the metagame affects it negatively to hopefully show overall that its viability does not rise enough to push out of unviability.

edit: cut out the unnecessary parts but im going to jump out of the dugtrio entrainment discussion now
 
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In my quest to make Fury Cutter less aweful, (A girl can dream) I keep crashing the battles with Scizor. It seems to occur when I don't use the attack before faintinting.

Its a shame, really. An effective 70bp for the first two turns, threatening a 120-200 bp +2 could make good mindgames. And a novelty factor off the charts.
 
Rain

Haven't really seen a lot of discussion about this, but rain teams are super solid in this meta; so many Pokemon can use Rain Dance that wouldn't normally fit, and can make for excellent suicide leads. Choice Specs Omastar is super viable.

Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower
- Rain Dance

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 32 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Taunt
- Rain Dance

Klefki @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Rain Dance


Other cool sets

Ferrothorn @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Explosion

Excellent lead; can set up spikes to wear down the opponent, leech seed, and protect against last wills/fire punch from Slaking, which I have seen a couple times. Life orb to boost explosion damage; can switch into potential KOs, or double explode, but it's the best item because there really isn't much of a need for defensive augmentation.

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Final Gambit
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Trick Room

Yeah, we all know how good Victini is; this is just a scarf variant that works incredibly well for setting up Trick Room.

Buzzwole @ Leftovers/Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 208 HP / 192 Atk / 12 SpD / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute/Poison Jab
- Leech Life
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch

The substitute gains extra usefulness, because it prevents Buzzwole from being killed by the opponent's Last Will. Focus Punch in the last move slot, because it does huge damage to the opponent and doesn't need the full turn to pull off. Instead of substitute, poison jab can be used for extra coverage, and a choice band can give Buzzwole some extra power.
 
The Last Will move is executed before abilities like Flame Body or Effect Spore activate but it should be executed after. This is important when your Last Will move is something like Hex, Wake-up Slap or Dream Eater.
 
Please do not change the rules without telling anyone. I lost two battles due to the change in how choice items work before I realized that it was a new mechanic and not a bug.

Since the team that got me in the top 5 on ladder is now useless, and since apparently someone thinks it's worth trying to copy, I'll post it here.

Mimikyu @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Explosion

Steelix-Mega @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Boomburst

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz

Unless you're using/facing a stall team, the strategy in this meta is simple: always try to get at least a 1-1 trade, better if possible; you never want to die without killing your opponent. Exploud and Marowak are basically just nukes, intended to die in the process of taking out a key opponent. Exploud was chosen over Porygon because it can beat ghosts and substitutes, and Marowak is powerful and immune to most explosions and to Will-o-Wisp. The other mons were chosen because they can often kill someone and survive their last will: Tyranitar can pursuit-trap a lot of mons in this game, and it resists a lot of last will moves, plus it has good bulk, and sand stream to supplement its bulk/break opposing sashes. It's especially good against opposing Azelf, since you can always predict that they'll lead with Azelf, and Azelf can barely do anything to TTar and is killed by pursuit even if it doesn't switch out. It also works great against non-banded Victini. Mimikyu is great at finishing off a weakened opponent, since it can often outspeed and get the KO and then survive thanks to Disguise (and sometimes even without breaking Disguise, thanks to its immunities). And Lando and Steelix are powerful, physically bulky (there aren't a whole lot of special attackers in the meta), and have good typing.
 
Please do not change the rules without telling anyone. I lost two battles due to the change in how choice items work before I realized that it was a new mechanic and not a bug.

Since the team that got me in the top 5 on ladder is now useless, and since apparently someone thinks it's worth trying to copy, I'll post it here.

Mimikyu @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Explosion

Steelix-Mega @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Boomburst

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz

Unless you're using/facing a stall team, the strategy in this meta is simple: always try to get at least a 1-1 trade, better if possible; you never want to die without killing your opponent. Exploud and Marowak are basically just nukes, intended to die in the process of taking out a key opponent. Exploud was chosen over Porygon because it can beat ghosts and substitutes, and Marowak is powerful and immune to most explosions and to Will-o-Wisp. The other mons were chosen because they can often kill someone and survive their last will: Tyranitar can pursuit-trap a lot of mons in this game, and it resists a lot of last will moves, plus it has good bulk, and sand stream to supplement its bulk/break opposing sashes. It's especially good against opposing Azelf, since you can always predict that they'll lead with Azelf, and Azelf can barely do anything to TTar and is killed by pursuit even if it doesn't switch out. It also works great against non-banded Victini. Mimikyu is great at finishing off a weakened opponent, since it can often outspeed and get the KO and then survive thanks to Disguise (and sometimes even without breaking Disguise, thanks to its immunities). And Lando and Steelix are powerful, physically bulky (there aren't a whole lot of special attackers in the meta), and have good typing.
The rules weren't changed, bugs were fixed. What you were doing before was abusing bugs (even if you didn't know it) because this meta wasn't coded properly.
 
The rules weren't changed, bugs were fixed. What you were doing before was abusing bugs (even if you didn't know it) because this meta wasn't coded properly.
There was never any consensus in this thread that it was a bug, nor any indication that it would be changed, even after I asked about it. If anything, the consensus seemed to be that the way choice items worked before was the way they were supposed to work. Call it a bug if you want, it's still a major change in the meta with no warning.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
There was never any consensus in this thread that it was a bug, nor any indication that it would be changed, even after I asked about it. If anything, the consensus seemed to be that the way choice items worked before was the way they were supposed to work. Call it a bug if you want, it's still a major change in the meta with no warning.
New Last Will Change
Last Will's are only able to be activated if the Pokemon could normally perform the move, e.g. cannot use support moves under the influence of Taunt, or any other move when inflicted Sleep, Freeze, or fully paralyzed. If they can't perform there Last Will they will use Struggle instead.

Reason: A lot of people were complaining about the bs of bypassing any rule and I originally intended for this to be added anyways but I guess I should've been more clear with that.

New Clause
Your team may not have more than 2 of any of these moves: Hydro Cannon, Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn, Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, V-Create, Explosion.

Reason: In an attempt to make the metagame much more enjoyable I am limiting the amount of "broken" moves you can have per team to 2.