1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Latios (Dragon Dance) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jukain, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    Yeah...this thing needs an analysis. ah, it's been a while since i've done this.

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Draco Meteor / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is very unlike your typical Latios in two aspects: the most obvious is that it is physically-based. Standard special Latios is hard walled by Heatran and Jirachi, loses to Blissey unless it predicts and uses Psyshock, and is defeated by Choice Scarf Tyranitar. These threats are all extremely common and hinder Latios's effectiveness. However, none of these Pokemon specialize in taking physical hits, and they all share one thing in common&mdash;a weakness to Earthquake. Because of this, a Latios running Earthquake can lure Heatran, Jirachi, and Tyranitar out and proceed to kill them. The issue is that Latios isn't strong enough to OHKO these Pokemon with its underwhelming base 90 Attack. The Attack boost granted by Dragon Dance remedies this and ensures pretty much nothing can revenge kill it. To get an idea of how useful the boost is, take a look at these calculations:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 180/0 Tyranitar: 79.53 - 93.52% &mdash; guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes</li>
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 81.68 - 96.53% &mdash; 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 Spikes</li>
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 32/0 Shuca Berry Jirachi: 47.27 - 55.87% &mdash; guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock</li>
    </ul>

    <p>These damage calculations demonstrate the potency of a +1 Earthquake. It even does over half to standard Shuca Berry Jirachi as it switches into Stealth Rock, which means even Jirachi can't handle Latios. Specially defensive Jirachi and Choice Band Tyranitar are OHKOed with entry hazard support or the slightest bit of prior damage. With these Pokemon gone, rain teams can often go to town.</p>

    <p>The other differentiating aspect of this set is that it is a sweeper instead of a hole puncher. The rest of the set is conducive to this role. Outrage is stronger than Draco Meteor with an Attack boost, though the lock-in is admittedly undesirable. However, it lacks the nasty Special Attack drop of Draco Meteor, which forces standard Latios to switch out after using it, so it is not all bad. Outrage OHKOes defensive Politoed and gets the KO on 248/216+ Jellicent with Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes up, which means it is more than strong enough.</p>

    <p>The last slot is really up for grabs. Latios doesn't really have anything good left in its physical movepool, so the last slot contains one of two special attacks. Draco Meteor is the preferred option, still boasting quite a bit of power even with minimal investment. For example, it OHKOes max HP Hippowdon after Spikes damage, in addition to nailing Gyarados and Landorus-T. It boasts similar power to Outrage against threats with equal or close to equal defenses, and hits specially-weak Pokemon very hard. You can lure out Pokemon expecting to wall a physical Latios (once you've revealed your set, that is) and kill many of them with Draco Meteor. Hidden Power Fire is also an option for Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, and Forretress, though it lacks the general coverage and usefulness of Draco Meteor. Plus, a Magnezone can trap and kill these threats anyway.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is fairly simple, maximizing Latios's sweeping capabilities. If you prefer, a specially-based set can be run, utilizing Dragon Dance only for its Speed boost. Such a set would run a spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with Dragon Pulse, Grass Knot or Psyshock, and Hidden Power Fire as its attacking moves. It can outspeed all Choice Scarf users after a boost and hit hard with Latios's signature special power. However, it lacks the Tyranitar-killing ability of the physical variant, so it is overall inferior. On this set, the last slot is replaceable with the right support. Grass Knot can be used to deal heavy damage to bulky Water-types without resorting to Outrage, but that use is just too niche, and you can already use Draco Meteor followed by an Earthquake to kill almost all of them. Psychic and Zen Headbutt present themselves as decent options, giving Latios a secondary STAB that OHKOes most Fighting-types&mdash;the only major difference between the two is that one hits specially and the other physically. In particular, they are most useful if you want Latios to be able to check Keldeo somewhat, though with a Naive nature and no defensive investment, Latios would really be more of a revenge killer. A Lum Berry is a potential option for the item slot, allowing Latios to evade any one crippling status, such as a burn, paralysis, or sleep. Overall, this set is very customizable to your needs.</p>

    <p>This set's main purpose is as a surprise lure on offensive teams for Tyranitar, Heatran, Jirachi, and to a lesser extent, Tentacruel. For this reason, rain teams, especially those with a Volcarona, will appreciate this set. In any case, since in most cases you will not have Hidden Power Fire, Magnezone support is a must, as Ferrothorn and Forretress will otherwise prove to be thorns in your side. If you do choose to run Hidden Power Fire, you will need support to kill Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and other troublesome physically bulky Pokemon. Shuca Berry Jirachi with Icy Wind and Grass Knot makes an excellent ally for this role, luring out these Ground-type Pokemon, taking the incoming Earthquake with its Shuca Berry, and KOing with Icy Wind (Grass Knot in Hippowdon's case&mdash;Icy Wind is not powerful enough). Finally, entry hazards are essential for Latios's success, as they can secure various KOs, which has been mentioned numerous times&mdash;you need both Stealth Rock and Spikes. On the types of teams Latios is usually on (rain or weatherless hyper offense), Custap Berry Skarmory is a perfect fit for this role, as it is reliably able to get up Stealth Rock and at least one layer of Spikes. All in all, this Latios does need a bit of support to fulfill its purpose, but the results make up for it in numerous ways.</p>

    skeleton (open)
    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Draco Meteor / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    Why it's good: DD Latios has been rejected in the past on calls of being outclassed and terrible, but none of that is true at all. Latios has immense power when boosted and gains Earthquake to hit Heatran and Jirachi with. It's no Dragonite, but the ability to outright steamroll these Pokemon and completely turn the tables on the opponent's preconceptions makes it more than viable. Putting it on-site doesn't really remove that surprise factor, as it'll still be uncommon and deadly in the hands of a skilled user.

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [*] not your typical latios -- more late-game sweeper-oriented
    [*] surprises common latios checks and counters and replaces them with a completely different list
    [*] insanely high speed after a boost lets it outspeed ridiculous things like chlorophyll-boosted venusaur and almost every choice scarfer/pokemon in the game
    [*] its outrage possesses pretty good power when boosted, being the main stab move of choice. the lock-in does unfortunately mean that it could mean latios would die if used to early in the game, so preserve it for late-game.
    [*] earthquake is a great move, nailing heatran and jirachi, which completely changes what the opponent can use to handle latios
    [*] draco meteor, even with minimal investment still has that trademark latios power and is great when you don't want to go for the outrage or are facing a physically bulky foe, and doesn't force latios out due to it being physically biased
    [*] hp fire is an option to nuke ferrothorn/forretress/scizor/skarmory

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    [*] evs enable latios to perform its job most efficiently etc., there might be better ones but this is what i've got
    [*] psyshock is a neat option for keldeo/breloom, but outside of that it's rather useless
    [*] zen headbutt is another neat option for stuff like gyarados, salamence, gengar, venusaur, dragonite, etc. while hitting as stab from the physical side without resorting to outrage which has an unfortunate lock-in.
    [*] specially biased using dragon dance for just its speed boost with draco meteor / hp fire / psyshock or earthquake or something
    [*] good as a surprise on offensive teams -- not really something that needs much in the way of partners
    [*] if you're not running hp fire, strongly consider magnezone to quickly handle those steel-types
    [*] but if you are forgoing draco meteor, you're easily susceptible to physical walls like landorus-t, gliscor, and hippowdon -- you have literally an infinite amount of options to deal with these from starmie to specs toed to keldeo to rotom-w to [insert x water-type move user here]. hell you could even use kyurem-b.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  2. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    might want to mention HP fire is for scizor/skarmory, yeah?

    Skarm lol-walls you otherwise and scizor just Koes

    Edit: Why even mention Psyshock in AC, it exists to hit physically and this latios has no problems with that (If you really want psychic coverage try Psychic, no?)
  3. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    how'd i forget lol mentioned
  4. Namso

    Namso
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,303
    Perhaps you can AC Zen Headbutt for a decent STAB attack without having to lock yourself into Outrage. You'd kill stuff like Gyarados, Salamence, Gengar, Venusaur, and Dragonite, among others, with SR in play and one boost.
  5. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,292
    qc approved 1/3
  6. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    added the sufficient partners and zen headbutt to ac

    thanks, shrang
  7. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,583
    qc approved 2/3
  8. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    kk i'll get this written
  9. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    Hey

    Considering you've got Zen Headbutt now in the AC, isn't it really pointless to mention Psyshock? It's almost as strong as Psyshock unboosted, much stronger boosted, and although it isn't totally accurate, it does have that sweet flinch chance.

    Edit: It's only 5% stronger, actually. It does get a 100% chance to OHKO Keldeo after SR, as opposed to a 75% chance, (the miss chance, combined with the flinch chance, lowers that a bit), but then you lose all the sweeping potential of Zen Headbutt, which is pretty lame considering.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2013
  10. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    nah, I think they're both ok options -- psyshock is appreciatively stronger unboosted
  11. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    Not to make a huge issue out of this, but it's actually only 5% stronger (only 17 more SpA). It does get a 100% chance to OHKO Keldeo after SR, as opposed to a 75% chance, (the miss chance, combined with the flinch chance, lowers that a bit), but then you lose all the sweeping potential of Zen Headbutt, for so little gain, and Keldeo does die after another 6% of damage (sr or SS, take your pick). Being locked into Outrage is the #1 problem most DD dragons have, and since Latios has a weaker Outrage than most, that's only exacerbated (although you will often have 2 DDs as opposed to one, because SURPRISE). Zen Headbutt lets you avoid that to an extent, while still doing nearly all of what Psyshock's doing.

    Either way, I won't post about this again-do what you will, I don't want to make this a big argument.
  12. dadoux

    dadoux

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    392
    I don't really see how he is better that your common SpecsTios, he's countered by even more thing, got the obligation to set-up to be very fearsome and you're not even sure to OHKO Tyranitar (Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 307-361 (75.99 - 89.35%), his main issue. I totally get that the set can be surprising and kinda fun but does he actually gain anything from that set ?
  13. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    827
    Yes, DD Latios does get countered more, but he now has the capability of removing checks and counters to his other sets (Blissey, Jirachi, etc.), which is the main goal of this set (aside from being a late-game sweeper obv.) Besides, this set's checks and counters are defeated by commonly seen Pokemon such as Breloom (which should be added to the list imo).
  14. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,688
    I don't like this set at all. Needs to setup to be useful at all and even if it does it is not that good. Basically relies solely on surprise factor, which alone is never a good enough reason for something to get a main set. We are gonna need the opinion of more QC members here. I am more than willing to reconsider this set however if you replace Outrage with DM and slash HP Fire alone in the last slot as well as use the appropriate spread to 2HKO Tyranitar after SR with EQ.

    EDIT: Nevermind i talked with the QC team and we decided that this se is fine. Go ahead and write it up Jukain!
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
    dadoux likes this.
  16. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    I've written the set comments. They're a bit long, but I felt like this set required a bit more justification, and they're not excessive. I'll work on the AC soon. Just an update on my progress~
  17. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    This is written, go at it QC.
  18. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,204
    this might be a bit premature, but I have a problem with this paragraph:

    What exactly is this paragraph telling me that I don't already know? Any competent person should be able figure out from the damage calc above that a +1 Earthquake breaks the two most common Latios switch-ins with just a little support. I would say to just get rid of this paragraph, but that's just my opinion.
  19. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    I thought that too at first and did not include an explanation, but for the non-competent players, it requires a bit of explanation. You're supposed to explain calcs -- not just throw them in. For this reason, the paragraph is there. It's four sentences to help out newer players. I don't see the downside.
  20. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,153
    QC Approved (3/3)
  21. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    Alright, thanks PK -- GP, this is your job now.
  22. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    827
    Gonna GP my GP mentor! Please don't let this suck ;_;

    Add
    Remove
    Comments

    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Draco Meteor / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is very unlike your typical Latios in two aspects: the most obvious is that it is physically based. Standard special Latios is hard walled by Heatran and Jirachi, loses to Blissey unless it predicts and uses Psyshock, and loses to gets defeated by (To avoid repetition) Choice Scarf Tyranitar. These threats are all extremely common and hinder Latios's effectiveness. However, none of these Pokemon specialize in taking physical hits, and they all share one thing in common&mdash;a weakness to Earthquake. Because of this, a Latios running Earthquake can lure Heatran, Jirachi, and Tyranitar out and proceed to kill them. The issue is then that Latios isn't strong enough to OHKO these Pokemon with its underwhelming base 90 Attack. The Attack boost granted by Dragon Dance remedies this and ensures pretty much nothing can revenge kill you Latios. To get an idea of how useful the boost is, take a look at these calculations:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 180/0 Tyranitar: 79.53 - 93.52% &mdash; guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes</li>
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 81.68 - 96.53% &mdash; 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 Spikes</li>
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 32/0 Shuca Berry Jirachi: 47.27 - 55.87% &mdash; guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock</li>
    </ul>

    <p>These damage calculations demonstrate the potency of a +1 Earthquake. It even does over half to standard Shuca Berry Jirachi as it switches into Stealth Rock, which means even it can't handle Latios. Specially defensive Jirachi and Choice Band Tyranitar are OHKOed with hazard support or the slightest bit of prior damage. With these Pokemon gone, rain teams can often go to town.</p>

    <p>The other differentiating aspect of this set is that it is a sweeper instead of a hole puncher. While it might not always be able to complete a sweep, it is still more than strong enough to punch some massive holes (This is kind of contradicting the previous sentence, maybe consider rewording?) and even fully sweep weakened teams. The rest of the set is conducive to this role. Outrage is stronger than Draco Meteor with a +1 an Attack boost, though the lock-in is admittedly undesirable. However, it lacks the nasty Special Attack drop of Draco Meteor, which forces standard Latios to switch out after using it, so it is not all bad. It Outrage OHKOes defensive Politoed and 248/216+ Jellicent with Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes up, which means it is more than strong enough.</p>

    <p>The last slot is really up for grabs. Latios doesn't really have much else anything good left in its physical movepool, so the last slot contains one of two special attacks. Draco Meteor is the preferred option, still boasting quite a bit of power even with minimal investment. For example, it OHKOes max HP Hippowdon after Spikes damage, in addition to nailing Gyarados and Landorus-T. It boasts similar power to Outrage against threats with equal or close to equal defenses,(AC) and hits specially weak Pokemon very hard. You can lure out Pokemon expecting to wall a physical Latios (once you've revealed your set that is) and kill many of them with Draco Meteor. Hidden Power Fire is also an option for Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, and Forretress, though it lacks the general coverage and usefulness of Draco Meteor. Plus, it isn't some terrible thing to run a Magnezone can and trap and dispose of these threats anyway.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is fairly simple, maximizing Latios's sweeping capabilities. (This explanation doesn't say much, so it should generally be removed) If you prefer, a specially based set can be run, utilizing Dragon Dance only for its Attack Speed boost. Such a set would run a spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with Dragon Pulse, Grass Knot or Psyshock, and Hidden Power Fire as its attacking moves. It can outspeed all Choice Scarf users after a boost and hit hard with Latios's signature special power. However, it lacks the Tyranitar-killing ability of the physical variant, so it is overall inferior. On this set, the last slot is replaceable with the right support. Grass Knot can be used to deal heavy damage to bulky Water-types without resorting to Outrage, but that use is just too niche, and you can already use Draco Meteor followed by an Earthquake to kill almost all of them. Psychic and Zen Headbutt present themselves as decent options, giving Latios a secondary STAB that OHKOes most Fighting-types&mdash;the only major difference between the two is that one hits specially and the other physically. In particular, one of the two useful (???) if you want Latios to be able to check Keldeo somewhat, though with a Naive nature and no defensive investment, it would really be more of a revenge killer. A Lum Berry is a potential option for the item slot, allowing Latios to evade any one crippling status, such as a burn, paralysis, or sleep. Overall, Dragon Dance Latios is very customizable to your needs.</p>

    <p>This set's main purpose is as a surprise lure on offensive teams for Tyranitar, Heatran, Jirachi, and to a lesser extent,(AC) Tentacruel. For this reason, rain teams, especially those with a Volcarona, will appreciate this set. In any case, since in most cases you will not have Hidden Power Fire, Magnezone support is a must, as Ferrothorn and Forretress will otherwise prove to be thorns in your side. If you do chose choose to run Hidden Power Fire, you will need support to kill Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and other troublesome physically bulky Pokemon. Shuca Berry Jirachi with Icy Wind and Grass Knot makes an excellent ally for this role, luring out these Ground-type Pokemon, taking the incoming Earthquake with its Shuca Berry, and KOing with Icy Wind (Grass Knot in Hippowdon's case&mdash;Icy Wind is not powerful enough). Finally, entry hazards are essential for Latios's success, as the fact that they can secure various KOs has been mentioned numerous times; they secure various KOs. You need Stealth Rock and Spikes (This sentence should be merged with the previous or following sentence; I'll let you choose). On the types of teams Latios is usually on (rain or weatherless hyper offense), Custap Berry Skarmory is a perfect fit for this role, as it is reliably able to get up Stealth Rock and at least one layer of Spikes. All in all, this Latios does need a bit of support to fulfill its purpose, but the results make up for it in numerous ways.</p>

    Very well done :)

    GP Approved 1/2
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  23. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    implemented, ty rohail n_n <3
  24. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,931
    @Jukain

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Draco Meteor / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is very unlike your typical Latios in two aspects: the most obvious is that it is physically-based. Standard special Latios is hard walled by Heatran and Jirachi, loses to Blissey unless it predicts and uses Psyshock, and is defeated by Choice Scarf Tyranitar. These threats are all extremely common and hinder Latios's effectiveness. However, none of these Pokemon specialize in taking physical hits, and they all share one thing in common&mdash;a weakness to Earthquake. Because of this, a Latios running Earthquake can lure Heatran, Jirachi, and Tyranitar out and proceed to kill them. The issue is that Latios isn't strong enough to OHKO these Pokemon with its underwhelming base 90 Attack. The Attack boost granted by Dragon Dance remedies this and ensures pretty much nothing can revenge kill it. To get an idea of how useful the boost is, take a look at these calculations:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 180/0 Tyranitar: 79.53 - 93.52% &mdash; guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes</li>
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 81.68 - 96.53% &mdash; 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 Spikes</li>
    <li>+1 Earthquake vs. 32/0 Shuca Berry Jirachi: 47.27 - 55.87% &mdash; guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock</li>
    </ul>

    <p>These damage calculations demonstrate the potency of a +1 Earthquake. It even does over half to standard Shuca Berry Jirachi as it switches into Stealth Rock, which means even it Jirachi can't handle Latios. Specially defensive Jirachi and Choice Band Tyranitar are OHKOed with entry hazard support or the slightest bit of prior damage. With these Pokemon gone, rain teams can often go to town.</p>

    <p>The other differentiating aspect of this set is that it is a sweeper instead of a hole puncher. The rest of the set is conducive to this role. Outrage is stronger than Draco Meteor with an Attack boost, though the lock-in is admittedly undesirable. However, it lacks the nasty Special Attack drop of Draco Meteor, which forces standard Latios to switch out after using it, so it is not all bad. Outrage OHKOes defensive Politoed and gets the KO on 248/216+ Jellicent with Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes up, which means it is more than strong enough.</p> This made it seem like entry hazards were needed for both. Hopefully that's not what you meant, right?

    <p>The last slot is really up for grabs. Latios doesn't really have anything good left in its physical movepool, so the last slot contains one of two special attacks. Draco Meteor is the preferred option, still boasting quite a bit of power even with minimal investment. For example, it OHKOes max HP Hippowdon after Spikes damage, in addition to nailing Gyarados and Landorus-T. It boasts similar power to Outrage against threats with equal or close to equal defenses, and hits specially-weak Pokemon very hard. You can lure out Pokemon expecting to wall a physical Latios (once you've revealed your set, (AC) that is) and kill many of them with Draco Meteor. Hidden Power Fire is also an option for Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, and Forretress, though it lacks the general coverage and usefulness of Draco Meteor. Plus, a Magnezone can trap and kill these threats anyway.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is fairly simple, maximizing Latios's sweeping capabilities. If you prefer, a specially-based set can be run, utilizing Dragon Dance only for its Speed boost. Such a set would run a spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with Dragon Pulse, Grass Knot or Psyshock, and Hidden Power Fire as its attacking moves. It can outspeed all Choice Scarf users after a boost and hit hard with Latios's signature special power. However, it lacks the Tyranitar-killing ability of the physical variant, so it is overall inferior. On this set, the last slot is replaceable with the right support. Grass Knot can be used to deal heavy damage to bulky Water-types without resorting to Outrage, but that use is just too niche, and you can already use Draco Meteor followed by an Earthquake to kill almost all of them. Psychic and Zen Headbutt present themselves as decent options, giving Latios a secondary STAB that OHKOes most Fighting-types&mdash;the only major difference between the two is that one hits specially and the other physically. In particular, they are most useful if you want Latios to be able to check Keldeo somewhat, though with a Naive nature and no defensive investment, it Latios would really be more of a revenge killer. A Lum Berry is a potential option for the item slot, allowing Latios to evade any one crippling status, such as a burn, paralysis, or sleep. Overall, Dragon Dance Latios is very customizable to your needs.</p>

    <p>This set's main purpose is as a surprise lure on offensive teams for Tyranitar, Heatran, Jirachi, and to a lesser extent, Tentacruel. For this reason, rain teams, especially those with a Volcarona, will appreciate this set. In any case, since in most cases you will not have Hidden Power Fire, Magnezone support is a must, as Ferrothorn and Forretress will otherwise prove to be thorns in your side. If you do choose to run Hidden Power Fire, you will need support to kill Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and other troublesome physically bulky Pokemon. Shuca Berry Jirachi with Icy Wind and Grass Knot makes an excellent ally for this role, luring out these Ground-type Pokemon, taking the incoming Earthquake with its Shuca Berry, and KOing with Icy Wind (Grass Knot in Hippowdon's case&mdash;Icy Wind is not powerful enough). Finally, entry hazards are essential for Latios's success, as they can secure various KOs, which has been mentioned numerous times&mdash;you need both Stealth Rock and Spikes. On the types of teams Latios is usually on (rain or weatherless hyper offense), Custap Berry Skarmory is a perfect fit for this role, as it is reliably able to get up Stealth Rock and at least one layer of Spikes. All in all, this Latios does need a bit of support to fulfill its purpose, but the results make up for it in numerous ways.</p>


    2/2
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  25. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,948
    ty gato, this is done

    upload time

    finally, the strongest latios set gets on-site. requesting it go above dual screens, but it's not a /big/ deal either way.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)