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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
- Start date
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Because it's always going to struggle to find a place on teams. Unless you're running something like DigZig or a trapping team, there are few reasons to run it over other fighting types.
Yah, I love me some nice booty, and Pancham is definitely top tier in that front.
As for it being hard for it to fit in a team, I can name several playstyles it fits on quite well. I would actually sooner drop Croagunk than Pancham, but I guess that is just me. Whatever tho.
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Surskit is only at B-...
Surskit stops Timburr who try to use it as Set-Up fodder with Haze, Hydro Pump is still strong, please sitting in the same rank as Tentacool must do it some disparagement.
Webs are still one of the best Hyper-Offensive playstyles, it hits hard, then it cleans-up the mess. Simple as that, but please the most viable user of the move should not be sitting at B-.
Surskit for B
Surskit stops Timburr who try to use it as Set-Up fodder with Haze, Hydro Pump is still strong, please sitting in the same rank as Tentacool must do it some disparagement.
Webs are still one of the best Hyper-Offensive playstyles, it hits hard, then it cleans-up the mess. Simple as that, but please the most viable user of the move should not be sitting at B-.
Surskit for B
B+, Surskit is the poster boy for a specific strategy, B is an injustice. IIRC, it was originally placed low because of how Sticky Web really didn't do much in the metagame at the time, and this was either around the Gligar era or the Murkrow era, where some of the most common Pokemon were not affected by Sticky Web. Right now the only real Pokemon that don't care about Sticky Web are Fletchling, Pawniard, Archen, Gastly, Vullaby, and some lower mons. Before you had top threats like Murkrow or Misdreavus to worry about and account for, and it made Sticky Web an otherwise non-viable strategy. Please bump Surskit up, its really cool to run it with things like Honedge or Cranidos
Tyrunt for B-
Tyrunt has two roles it preforms well, firstly as a Sturdy Juice SR setter that hits harder than Dwebble. It is outclassed by Dwebble at this sadly.
Tyrunt is the second best dragon dancer after only Scraggy, it hits like a truck whether you are running Dragon Claw, or Outrage (to wallbreak), Stone Edge, it has great coverage moves boosted by its niche ability Strong Jaw allowing the Fang Moves to hit hard. It just deserves this rank as it is so good right now, and I often find it over-performs its job when I use it.
Tyrunt has two roles it preforms well, firstly as a Sturdy Juice SR setter that hits harder than Dwebble. It is outclassed by Dwebble at this sadly.
Tyrunt is the second best dragon dancer after only Scraggy, it hits like a truck whether you are running Dragon Claw, or Outrage (to wallbreak), Stone Edge, it has great coverage moves boosted by its niche ability Strong Jaw allowing the Fang Moves to hit hard. It just deserves this rank as it is so good right now, and I often find it over-performs its job when I use it.
Webs are a bad tour strategy that doesnt even worth usage, cause it is bad, surskit is a bad mon with an overrated hazard that still so bad that you should be banned just for using a bad strategy like that, Surskit to drop to C+
You are a bad tour strategy. Of course Hyper-Offence is not a good tour strategy.Have you ever noticed how almost every single team looks the same at high level play like honestly? Webs are one of the best laddering strategies whereas I honestly do not have the time to play balance on the ladder, when I can play a game every 3-7 minutes because I swept my opponent. When I use balance the time is usually doubled, and sometimes tripled. I can sweep a bad opponent, and if I play well with webs I can beat good opponent. It is one of the top laddering team builds along with Dwebble-Offence. Using Balance on the ladder is not as congenial, especially so in LC when you can top the ladder in what? 50, 60, 70 games?
tl;dr bad user is bad for being bad
Surskit for at least B or better yet B+ like what Amaura said. Do you know how many Timburrs have fell victim to my Surskit's hazes, and Hydro Pumps?
you should use surskit as a suicide lead, not as an hazer, so unless you played againist people that used BU timburr at turn 1 i don't think you should mention this
I thought brarmy was being sarcastic cos he always uses webs...
anyway, it's not even a bad tour strategy, depending on who you're facing, tour building is about looking at the opponents style of play and building a team that can have a decent matchup advantage. Webs can have a good matchup against a lot of people, and surskit is the centre point of this very viable playstyle. However, if you use webs a lot in tours, then you're gonna get cteamed, start preparing for snivy/pawniard cores etc.
'Of course Hyper-Offence is not a good tour strategy. Have you ever noticed how almost every single team looks the same at high level play like honestly?' hyper offence is a viable tour strategy, I don't get how you can say otherwise. There's definitely a place for Dwebble stack and Sticky webs in tournament play. It's admittedly harder without Misdreavus tbf but it can be run. And the teams that 'look the same' at high level play are more like mid level play teams. high level players use strategies to overcome these normal builds, lots of anti meta strategies, e.g. Omanyte smash (wrecks mienfoo based volturn), Download Porygon, stuff like corphish, skrelp, gothita/diglett. Hyper offense, e.g. birdspam, waterspam is really antimeta atm.
anyway, it's not even a bad tour strategy, depending on who you're facing, tour building is about looking at the opponents style of play and building a team that can have a decent matchup advantage. Webs can have a good matchup against a lot of people, and surskit is the centre point of this very viable playstyle. However, if you use webs a lot in tours, then you're gonna get cteamed, start preparing for snivy/pawniard cores etc.
'Of course Hyper-Offence is not a good tour strategy. Have you ever noticed how almost every single team looks the same at high level play like honestly?' hyper offence is a viable tour strategy, I don't get how you can say otherwise. There's definitely a place for Dwebble stack and Sticky webs in tournament play. It's admittedly harder without Misdreavus tbf but it can be run. And the teams that 'look the same' at high level play are more like mid level play teams. high level players use strategies to overcome these normal builds, lots of anti meta strategies, e.g. Omanyte smash (wrecks mienfoo based volturn), Download Porygon, stuff like corphish, skrelp, gothita/diglett. Hyper offense, e.g. birdspam, waterspam is really antimeta atm.
I am just going to clear this up, I was being sarcastic for the entire post because I know that BR Army uses Webs...I use a lot of HO in tournaments so, I definitely know it is a viable tour strategy. If you look at my PSPL Game against YABO, I am using Sticky Webs, if that is enough proof.
PSPL is not an indication of anything major, yabo is a UU player first off. Webs are ass in tours, HO of other kinds aren't, and as rowan said those stuff are anti meta, except gothita and diglett, who are borderline broken. Lastly, why reply if you were begin sarcastic, his post was unnecessary already. Look at some SPLC replays, some players did go out of their way to run something non-standard at high-level, such as my dual screens magnemite HO, madoka's use of drifloon, which actually showed people its a threat, apt-get's almost successful use of zorua on zig HO, and other teams that I'm to lazy to look up for sack of the replay thread being to long.
Okay, I did not ever indict it was. Furthermore, no Sherlock, does that mean he cannot build teams that are effective in the current metagame, if so then you do him disparagement. Secondly, I know, look how well ggggd did in SPLC, I never said in SPLC, or another LC heavy tournament that I would use Sticky Webs. Secondly, anti-meta is the meta in high-tier play, did I once ever mention otherwise? There are way too many examples of this.
Why respond to my sarcasm? It seems that is what you did.
Now, to make something actually useful of this post;
Croagunk down to A-
Croagunk is has like 3 roles it ever does. NP Wallbreaker, the Fighting Check set, and the physical set which I never see anymore.
Croagunk is easily trapped by both trappers, Fletchling OHKOes with an unboosted Acrobatics, Mienfoo with Acrobatics beats it, LO Abra beats it, and a plethora of other reasons. It cannot recover without Wish support, or Berry Juice.
Croagunk is still a great Fighting type, with Priority, Knock Off, a Fighting Resist, the ability to take out Fairies, and a water immunity, but whenever I use Croagunk I always find it lacking in either power or defense.
Why respond to my sarcasm? It seems that is what you did.
Now, to make something actually useful of this post;
Croagunk down to A-
Croagunk is has like 3 roles it ever does. NP Wallbreaker, the Fighting Check set, and the physical set which I never see anymore.
Croagunk is easily trapped by both trappers, Fletchling OHKOes with an unboosted Acrobatics, Mienfoo with Acrobatics beats it, LO Abra beats it, and a plethora of other reasons. It cannot recover without Wish support, or Berry Juice.
Croagunk is still a great Fighting type, with Priority, Knock Off, a Fighting Resist, the ability to take out Fairies, and a water immunity, but whenever I use Croagunk I always find it lacking in either power or defense.
Just wondering, but what exactly makes Webs ass in tours, specifically, and not in general? If it's been proven to be a viable strategy (which it has since day 1 of XY, just look at hollywood's old Sticky Web Bunnelby team if its still up) then what makes it function so awfully in tours, which are just glorified battles. Any strategy that isn't the same 6 mons doesn't always work, so comparing a specific strategy to the most standard part of the meta kinda takes away perspective. As a strategy, sticky webs is fine, its fine in tours, its fine in laddering, its fine in custom games. I see no reason why Surskit should be so low, and the strategy thought of as gimmicky.
Trapping is amazing in this meta and I think this is really warranted.
Diglett ---> A+
SubLO and sash diglett are ridiculously good, the former being the best revenge killer in the meta and the ladder being amazing at switching in and removing threats such as magnemite and chinchou. LO diglett not only limits the things that it has super effective coverage on, but pretty much anything that is grounded. With LO and EdgeQuake coverage, the opponent has to be very careful to not let things be u-turned on that are below ~60%, or they'll be caught by it. Just the ability to be constantly threatening to offensive and defensive threats alike with its nearly unmatched speed makes it easily suitable for A+ IMO.
Gothita ----> A
Gothita as well can pressure many of the mons that stop certain pokemon from sweeping. It limits play much the same way as diglett, but unfortunately does lose more momentum. still, the ability to remove some of the meta's key offensive and defensive threats is incredible.
Diglett ---> A+
SubLO and sash diglett are ridiculously good, the former being the best revenge killer in the meta and the ladder being amazing at switching in and removing threats such as magnemite and chinchou. LO diglett not only limits the things that it has super effective coverage on, but pretty much anything that is grounded. With LO and EdgeQuake coverage, the opponent has to be very careful to not let things be u-turned on that are below ~60%, or they'll be caught by it. Just the ability to be constantly threatening to offensive and defensive threats alike with its nearly unmatched speed makes it easily suitable for A+ IMO.
Gothita ----> A
Gothita as well can pressure many of the mons that stop certain pokemon from sweeping. It limits play much the same way as diglett, but unfortunately does lose more momentum. still, the ability to remove some of the meta's key offensive and defensive threats is incredible.
Larvesta to A-
Larvesta has a great ability flame body which really helps to cripple physical attackers and also limits the opponent on what they want to do. Pawniard and Mienfoo, two great mons in this meta which both can't do much to Larvesta (unless stone edge and from what I've seen only I run it). Also Larvesta itself can hit really hard with a flare blitz and it provides great momentum in teams with the access to U-Turn. The fact that it gets Will O Wisp, Morning Sun for Recovery and it's unique typing leads me to the choice of Larvesta should be moved to A-.
I've also used Choice Scarf Larvesta a bit. It OHKO's nearly everything which doesn't resist it in the lc meta and can break through some fat mons.
Larvesta has a great ability flame body which really helps to cripple physical attackers and also limits the opponent on what they want to do. Pawniard and Mienfoo, two great mons in this meta which both can't do much to Larvesta (unless stone edge and from what I've seen only I run it). Also Larvesta itself can hit really hard with a flare blitz and it provides great momentum in teams with the access to U-Turn. The fact that it gets Will O Wisp, Morning Sun for Recovery and it's unique typing leads me to the choice of Larvesta should be moved to A-.
I've also used Choice Scarf Larvesta a bit. It OHKO's nearly everything which doesn't resist it in the lc meta and can break through some fat mons.
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GlassGlaceon
My heart has now been set on love
actually it's B+ at the time I'm posting this :]
To solve this look above to the post I am quoting;
I have made bold the important one okay. The OP has yet to be updated in case someone objects.
I'd like to nominate Teddiursa for C+.
I have used Teddiursa, and I have to say it has many redeeming qualities. It has a great attack stat, an acceptable Speed stat with Quick Feet, and a Toxic-Orb powered Facade, can kill steel-types with Close Combat, and Crunch to deal max damage to Ghosts. It can also beat most Normals one-on-one with Quick Feet as well. Oh, and it's a status absorber, whereas other physical attackers are vulnerable to status and are terrified by it.
I have used Teddiursa, and I have to say it has many redeeming qualities. It has a great attack stat, an acceptable Speed stat with Quick Feet, and a Toxic-Orb powered Facade, can kill steel-types with Close Combat, and Crunch to deal max damage to Ghosts. It can also beat most Normals one-on-one with Quick Feet as well. Oh, and it's a status absorber, whereas other physical attackers are vulnerable to status and are terrified by it.
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Teddiursa fears Burn, and Paralysis is never good. It hits hard, but it tends to lack the power to OHKO things, fragility, and weak to Fighting-type moves. Also 14 speed with boost is 21 which means that it is outspeed by every single scarfer that is commonly run, and any shell smasher including Tirtouga. Toxic Orb also means that it cannot possible run Life Orb which is another large detriment. This definitely makes it not B- tier. Teddiursa deserves to stay at C.
Whoops, put C instead of C+. But now that I read what you said, I can see why it's not B- material. Editing that out.
Stunky to B+
In a meta where Abra and Gastly are around every corner, there's no better mon than Stunky to get the job done. Abra is one of the most pesky Pokemon in the whole metagame, and it's also one of the most used at a whopping 31% of all teams. However, Stunky easily traps and KOs it with Pursuit and Sucker Punch. It is also worth mentioning that if you have a team with a wincon such as Shell Smash or Zigzagoon, then adding Stunky is likely to instantly make your team better due to its trapping capabilities. Even vs. teams where Abra isn't present, Stunky isn't complete dead weight. It's decently fast, and is also a solid answer to Pawniard due to Fire Blast. Sludge Bomb hits all other Pokemon incredibly hard too.
While I don't think Stunky is the best mon ever, I think it's a bit of a crime to see it that low.
In a meta where Abra and Gastly are around every corner, there's no better mon than Stunky to get the job done. Abra is one of the most pesky Pokemon in the whole metagame, and it's also one of the most used at a whopping 31% of all teams. However, Stunky easily traps and KOs it with Pursuit and Sucker Punch. It is also worth mentioning that if you have a team with a wincon such as Shell Smash or Zigzagoon, then adding Stunky is likely to instantly make your team better due to its trapping capabilities. Even vs. teams where Abra isn't present, Stunky isn't complete dead weight. It's decently fast, and is also a solid answer to Pawniard due to Fire Blast. Sludge Bomb hits all other Pokemon incredibly hard too.
While I don't think Stunky is the best mon ever, I think it's a bit of a crime to see it that low.
It also gets access to defog which is pretty nice since it doesn't take massive damage when rocks are up unlike most defoggers which are flying. Being able to perform as an all out attacker, a trapper or a defoggers is pretty nice. it's a great mon to pair up with Mienfoo or Timburr as Stunky can defeat the fighting weaknesses. So I'm gonna agree and saying Stunky from B to B+.
A lot of the stuff I said a long time ago still matters and I haven't seen it addressed. What does Stunky do offensively outside of trapping frail Psychics and Ghosts and occasionally roasting Steel-types with Fire Blast? It's got some cool utility in the form of Defog and Taunt, but it lacks a lot of moves such as Knock Off, Toxic Spikes, or Recover that could really make it worthwhile to use.Celestavian said:
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