Learning a Foreign Language

I thought this could potentially be a useful topic/discussion. Something I want to know is what your experiences are with learning a new language and the best or worst methods.

Personally, I thought it would be cool to learn Japanese. I got one of the "For Dummies" books and got a start but have since dropped it. I want to get back into it though. I would think having a study buddy for it would help but I don't have any friends that seem interested and I'm not sure how to go alone.
 

McMeghan

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Practise is best, and so is immersion.

Pair these two with basic vocabulary/grammar lessons and you're good to go! I guess I could say that's how I learned English (French being my mother language). School taught me the basis and games/Smogon acted like immersion. Posting here, as well as talking a lot on IRC (and Skype more recently) helped practise a lot more than what I did at school). I also strongly advice to frequently hear people talking in the language you want to learn, so you can get the correct pronunciation of the words you're learning.

Wish you luck!
 
English is a foreign language to me, and I'm currently learning Japanese. Remembering the kanji is the perfect book to go through the most difficult part of learning this otherwise simple language. Websites like jalup.com also help a lot.
 
Well, I have been taking Mandarin Chinese now for five years now and I still am not very good at it. I don't really pay attention because I personally don't like the teacher, she is really just ugh. But, I am sure if you pay attention and maybe take some classes you'll learn it pretty well :)
 
For japanese: I learned the hiragana alphabet in week 1, then katagana in week 2. The rest was really just a building block kind of structure to learning new grammar. Our teacher would always make us practice saying the stuff we learned, sometimes even impromptu conversations. Watching anime helped a bit too I guess. Very later on we got to converse with native speakers.

Imo this method really worked out for me because my teacher was actually fun and passionate. Not really sure if it would've been the same for the average teacher you run into. The only thing I thought needed work was the way kanji was taught, but then again for a white washed guy like me I only had to memorize 26 letters for my language, kanji is thousands. I guess it was inevitable that I'd struggle, even for an anime freak.
 

Metal Sonic

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I've been taking third language classes in my school: Malay. We have professional teachers and I have friends, so we learn together, play together and (take exams together). It is... a very rough journey. I've got a high distinction for my finals last year but this year I just got a pass :/

Some of my good friends take Japanese as their third language, and by the looks of it it's tough as hell. My advice is that a "Dummies" book isn't going to work. This isn't like Computing/Programming where you pick up a book and become good at it.

My suggestion is that you take up real classes; with a real teacher to guide you; just like the above posters have said. It's a long process, and an arduous journey, but if you're serious about learning Japanese that's the only path that will work.
 

Cresselia~~

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I started learning English when I was 3, Japanese when I was 8, French at age 13 but it didn't go well, then Spanish at age 15 which I really like.

Progress is proportional to how much time I put in listening and actually actively using the language, but the method does matter. (Teachers as well, to some degree)
Except when there's something you couldn't break through.
e.g. since I started English at a young age, I didn't remember how I learnt the English grammar, so when I was in French class at age 13, it was all horrible and seems chaotic.
I couldn't adapt to the amount of grammar poured onto me, so I had to quit, and I only remembered it as a very difficult language.
I also knew little and could not comprehend why French and English share the same alphabet but could not be pronounced in the English way.

But after the bad experience, when I get to learn Spanish years later, I assumed it would be as horrible as French was.
It turned out to be not as bad as I thought, then I enjoyed learning it.
It's more systematic than French, but it had more verb variations than French.
It was when I realized how although Latin languages share the same alphabet, pronunciation differs from language to language, and I had to learn from the start.

7 years after that, (yes, I'm old) I started to become interested in French again, and I kind of tried understanding it from a Spanish point a view.
It worked way better than what I did before.

Learning is just way easier if you keep listening to native speakers. You pick up the grammar by doing so, rather than calculating the grammar from the rules when you speak.
Memorizing grammar before actually listening to people is the harder way.
 

Lee

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learning Chinese (Mandarin). fuck this tonal nonsense. for those that don't know, the same word can mean completely different things depending on the tone with which you pronounce it. 'Ma' for instance can mean either mother or horse (or a few other things). Any advice for dealing with this? It's so disheartening to go into a shop and ask 'Doushou Qian' exactly as it's written in the book and get rewarded with blank looks...
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
learning Chinese (Mandarin). fuck this tonal nonsense. for those that don't know, the same word can mean completely different things depending on the tone with which you pronounce it. 'Ma' for instance can mean either mother or horse (or a few other things). Any advice for dealing with this? It's so disheartening to go into a shop and ask 'Doushou Qian' exactly as it's written in the book and get rewarded with blank looks...
Wait till you experience the hell of Cantonese (6 to 9 tones)

Try thinking in a musical way.

e.g. If in Mandarin the 1st tone is about an A, then musically, 2nd would be around E sliding up to F,
then 3rd would be around C, then 4th would be around A or G# sliding down to D.

(^I mean Mandarin)
 
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I'm trying to learn Japanese as well, I memorized Hiragana in day 1 and Katakana in day 2, then when I got into Kanjis and grammar I dropped for a while, because 2.000+ is a scary ammount of symbols to memorize.
I'll try to get some book and get back to it though.
Luckily, I found the Japanese pronunciation to be incredibly easy and similar to my native language's, it's 10 times easier than english.
I can't watch english movies & stuff without subs due to it being so hard and odd, the same will probably not apply when it comes to Japanese.
Unfortunately, Japanese is not only about the simple pronunciation but also about tons of grammar and Kanjis. awg
 

Cresselia~~

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Actually, how do you learn hiraganaso quickly? Back then it took me an entire summer or so.

I'm kind of curious especially when you have this difference in learning kana and kanji. I thought they would have looked the same to you.
 

Myzozoa

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Took 4 years of japanese in high school, now a senior at university, but i think if i had taken some time (6 months or a year) abroad in japan i would be fluent by now. I could probably still be fluent if i were willing to immerse myself, as I have an insane memory and I don't feel like ive lost more than 30% of my japanese, but I will more likely be pursuing portuguese if i pursue any language at all in the future.

Best method is immersion, short of that at least expose yourself to other people who are trying to learn. You have to interact in a language to learn it and commit it to your memory, and you should think of languages more like sports than like other school subjects like literature and math, you get competent by being exposed to stressors more than by reading a book.

imo best way to start japanese is to learn the kana, make stories for each kana so that you can easily recall how to write them (id bet i can read japanese faster than any non native speaker who hasnt made a story for every kana, a bold prediction but i maintain it, certainly i learned faster than anyone who didnt use this method), from remembrance comes recognition (for example my story for あ is 'it has aaa fish' since it has a jesus fish kinda). Once you know the kana, learn some vocab so that you have some baseline for forming sentences. The hard part of japanese is grammar, you need to know some words before you can begin studying grammar. A simple technique is to translate errand and shopping lists into japanese, so that you learn the names of vegetables and types of businesses and places (like streets are michi, parking lots are chuushajou etc, though some things are foreign words like soupaa maketto) after you know a bit, look at some kanji and try to build a up to a point where you have basic kanji (numbers and simple verbs like 'to eat' and 'to drink' and 'to speak') down. after that immersion is the simplest path to fluency.
 
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Bad Ass

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i'm like, half conversational in spanish. it's something that i actually enjoy learning but i find it difficult to keep studying it past what i got from school because i don't really have anyone to practice it with. also i get kind of discouraged by my poor grammar. grammar is hard.
 

Cresselia~~

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i'm like, half conversational in spanish. it's something that i actually enjoy learning but i find it difficult to keep studying it past what i got from school because i don't really have anyone to practice it with. also i get kind of discouraged by my poor grammar. grammar is hard.
Ya, it's hard.
But I draw charts for the verbs, which makes it easier and more systematic.

I also have some Mexican friends and some Caribbean friends to help out.
I'm sure you can find lots of them in university.
 

Chou Toshio

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I started learning Japanese in college (so about 8 years ago-- damn, time has flown). Now I have passed the highest level of proficiency for the JLPT N1 日本語能力検定. I would say that I am proud of the level of proficiency I have achieved.

Right now, I'm learning Chinese, and I'd say I'm at an intermediate level. I'm also living in Guangzhou, but it's surprisingly how difficult it is to get around town with classroom Mandarin (everyone speaks Mandarin here, but Cantonese is their first language commonly-- being used to Cantonese accents/ways of talking, they hardly ever understand a foreigner trying out his Mandarin). It's pretty frustrating.

Of course, there are a lot of dialects in Japanese too, and they can be difficult for someone who doesn't understand; but I built my Japanese off of an interest in Kansai dialect, so I've gotten pretty flexible when it comes to listening to and imitating dialects. My knowledge is not so flexible, and the difference in dialects is much greater and the inflection much more important in Chinese. Plus, the country-wide fluency of Mandarin in China is nowhere near the fluency in standard Japanese in Japan (since they have been working to make it the national language since the Meiji era). Of course I'm just spouting off about my frustration with China!


In terms of language learning, I'd like to echo a lot that's being said in this thread-- practice and immersion. Really though, the best way to improve is to be interested in the language-- have something there that inspires you. I really couldn't have improved in Japanese without Anime, which later progressed to the more difficult dramas. Now, I'm obsessed with Hanzawa Naoki-- which is a drama about bankers, and fantastic for business language.

Also, women. Or men. Whatever. Undoubtedly though, having a significant other who speaks the language and forces you to use it is one of the very best ways to improve. Undoubtedly. Getting involved with Japanese women absolutely improved my ability--

--and now I'm married to one; so can't exactly use that strategy for my Chinese now. :v4:

頑張れ! ファイト!
加油!
Do your best!
 
Speaking as someone who took 4 years of Japanese in high school in one of the best programs in the US, passed the AP test with a 3, and got into upper division third year Japanese in my first year here at University.

To echo the things that are really important: Immersion and practice are pretty much essential to becoming fluent at Japanese. Having a close friend who is Japanese that you can practice with can make all the difference in the world. I didn't have someone like that, but when I went to Japan on a school trip and homestayed with a high school student, the two weeks that I was there I dramatically improved my conversational skills. So if you can make a friend who you can conversate with, you'll be in great shape. I'm sure I'd be stronger in Japanese if I had the chance to stay in Japan (went there only for a week long trip)

Once you're at a point where you've learnt your basic kana and want to learn kanji, I would suggest reading passages(basically anything) with kanji in them and doing a good amount of written practice. For example, I'm a fan of music, so I try to read my favorite artists' Japanese interviews and translate them. Obviously you're not at a level to do that yet but it's doing little things like these that will ultimately help you.

Once I think of more I will edit this post! Haha
 

Lemonade

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As a supplement to learning a language, I really recommend taking an intro to linguistics class. Not only is it interesting, but also it's actually helpful when learning the pronunciation, vocabulary, grammar, etc. The only thing it really won't help you in is like idioms but those are helpless anyway XD That said, you have to consciously make connections between the languages and what you learned to the point where it becomes unconscious, because you want to be able to understand everything in that language (IE you don't want to translate from English and back speaking or comprehending-wise).
 
Japanese as a first second language [assuming it is]... That's definitely a tough one. Japanese is so very, very different from English, and western languages in general. The sheer amount to learn - multiple alphabets, an entirely new way to pronounce existing words, overwriting previously concrete sentence conventions, god forbid that the language is highly structured upon the class of the speaker and the spoken... Shit.

The best thing to do is to get yourself immersed in the language, I'd say... But personally, I'd start with some good, old-fashioned learning: whether it be from an online course, a book, a friend who speaks, an actual class, whatever is within your price range and works for you. This is because... Well, I find that learning how to read in particular is so much easier once the initial bullshit is done. Ideally, you have a basic understanding of where the words go and such, and how to pronounce and identify the characters well enough to get by. The building blocks are the worst bit and easily the most frustrating to learn; grammar conventions, where the noun/adjective/etc goes, how you alter it depending on who you are in relation to who or what you are talking about, and all that jazz. After that, learning more words and concepts becomes so much easier.

In addition, while you should naturally pay attention to all aspects of the language to the best of your ability [reading, writing, speaking, listening], for your first language, and such an "out there" language in particular, I'd do my best to focus on your best attribute. Simply put, you'll learn more without being as frustrated, and being frustrated with a language more than necessary is bad; you'll be more likely to give it up. Focusing on your best aspects will help your others as well; you'll learn a new word in the new language, see, hear, write, or say it a few times, and then you can ideally apply that word to everything else. Personally, I've always been a reader, so I set my 3DS to the language of my choice [at the moment, Spanish], and try to play games in it if I can [when I was less well-versed in French, having a French Pokemon game helped me immensely]. Keep in mind, though, that you should have the basics down first - otherwise, you'll either stop trying to read it [because you're so poor at it], or get frustrated because you understand almost nothing. You can't even bullshit your way out of it like you could with a Romance or Germanic language by saying "this looks like English," because it doesn't. The only word that is a cognate and not a loanword from one to the other in English/Japanese, as far as I am aware, and that is the word "so."
[my definition of "loanword" being something newer like "McDonald's" - and even then, Japanese does weird things, like a computer is called a "Pasokon," short for "Parosunaru Kompuyuta" [personal computer]]

Japanese is really hard to start with; it's not that I think that you can't succeed, but... It's like jumping into the deep end of the pool when you can only barely swim. If you have interest, I'd recommend that you dabble in a language more like English to start out with and get some strategies for learning; I'd recommend French, Spanish, or German. You don't have to become fluent in them or anything, I'd just recommend getting your feet wet in an easier and more relatable language [same alphabet, woohoo!] instead of doing something so utterly out there, you know? This one's just a suggestion, and you could skip it entirely, but I've found that it can be quite helpful.

Anyway, I'm no huge language expert, but I find alternate languages rather fascinating, and have gone to several classes; these are just things I've noticed have helped me. Goooood luck to you, dude.
 

Chou Toshio

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Well, it's not like Japanese has nothing going for it as a language. There are a number of things that make Japanese easier to learn than several others.

1) Limited sounds: ~90% of the sounds that exist in Japanese are easily pronounced by an English speaker-- English just has a lot more diversity of sounds than Japanese. It's always Consonant + Vowel sound (and "nn" is the only consonant sound that ever ends a word), and the 5 vowel sounds are all standard in English. The only difficult noises to pronounce are "tsu" (believe it or not, the "t" in "tsunami" is not supposed to be silent), "fu" (which is actually not a hard f but halfway between "hu" and "fu"), and the r series-- ra ri ru re ro, rya ryu ryo (and that's just because you have to roll the r's like in Spanish; ry sounds are the most difficult for English speakers).

2) Lots of media. Japanese is probably the only language besides English with such a diversity of TV shows, websites, news, blogs, and other media. Add in video games, anime, comic books, dramas-- there is just tons and tons of media if you want to immerse; especially on the internet. I don't think French, German, or Spanish can come anywhere close to the diversity and ease of access of material.


For my own recommendations, I'd like to post some resources that I used a lot when studying (note, most of this stuff will be more useful to intermediate-advanced+ students, but it's probably still worth a look for beginners):

-Rikaichan http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/
GET THIS. You ABSOLUTELY want this, as it is amazing. Rikaichan lets you hover your mouse over any word in your browser and instantly have the definition, reading, etc pop up. It's just an incredible tool I can't imagine studying Japanese without. They also have an iphone ap, which is a browser with a built in dictionary.
tip: KINDLE also has a dictionary feature similar to the rikaichan ap. You do have to pay for the Japanese -> English dictionary and install it, but it's worth it. For me, using the Japanese->Japanese dictionary is also quite useful. Recently, reading Japanese books on the kindle is one of my hobbies/study methods.
tip 2: For people learning Chinese (or Korean) there's a similar tool called perapera

-Renshuu.org http://www.renshuu.org/
This site has a lot of cool free resources, and I especially like the vocab quiz function. They have a LOT of different vocab sets to study from, including all the major beginner/intermediate texbooks like Genki and Intermediate Modern Japanese. I only found the site and used it when I was studying to pass the 1 Kyu (Japanese Language Proficiency Test N1), but it was key in my memorization of N1 vocab, and reviewing N2 vocab. There is vocab sets designed for each of the JLPT tests, all the way from the lowest N5 vocab, up to the highest N1 vocab. The N1 vocab alone has around 43 quizes each with about 45 vocab words. I found the online quizes fun enough to do though that it only took me about 3 months to get through all the lessons-- you just get addicted like a video game.

-Kansai ben http://www.kansaiben.com/
So ben or 弁 refers to a dialect-- here, Kansai dialect. The western region of Kansai (including Osaka, Kyoto, Kobe, Nara, etc.) is a counter pivot to Tokyo that simply has such a tremendous influence on Japanese culture as a whole. Ignoring Kansai culture is like ignoring half of what makes modern Japanese culture what it is. Learning Kansai dialect was incredibly useful for me in getting in the Japanese mindset-- remembering that in the past, western Japan was king at one time, and that the Japanese were historically not a united people, but split into several clans, regions, sects-- each with their own language. Japanese has a very standard form, but it also breaks away from that form a LOT. People's speaking styles differ tremendously, even if they're saying the same thing.

Slang, Polite speech (both honorific and humble), male v. female, old v. young, and differing based on context and who they're talking too-- you NEED a flexible attitude and a flexible ear for language. You have to make the intuitive leap that "shinee" has the same basic meanings as "shinai" and "itashikanemasu". You have to grasp at the different nuance when a woman ends a sentence with "wa" rising tone, v. a western Japanese man ending the sentence with "wa" falling tone. For me, studying Kansai ben did this--

It forced me to take a more flexible attitude towards Japanese, and make intuitive leaps. Example: understanding that "Yatte-mouta!" 「やってもうた!」in Kansai-ben was the same as "Yatte-shimatta!" 「やってしまった」in made it easier to perceive that "Yacchotta-kaja!" 「やっちょったかじゃ!」meant the same thing when hearing a person from Shikoku say it. Comparing methods of speaking makes your brain better at perceiving meaning even when the exact words are different but similar. It makes your understanding more organic. This helps TREMENDOUSLY when trying to master other forms of speaking-- like Keigo/Sonkei (polite Japanese), which IS critical to learning Japanese. Furthermore, the constant comparison between Kansai and Standard Japanese will force you to gain a more in-depth understanding of how standard grammar functions; it forces you to remember standard grammar well.

This site has tremendous resources for Kansai-ben study, grammar explanations, vocab list ("hokasu" means "suteru!" throw away!), and interviews with people from kansai of all age/gender groups to test your listening comprehension.
 
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Electrolyte

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As a native speaker of both Chinese and English, here are some tips for those struggling with 中文。

1. As Lee said, accents and tone are extremely important when it comes to pronunciation. Don't mess those up or you'll end up saying something completely different than what you mean. To practice this, go through the - / v \ tones for every vowel. That's how the little chinese kids in chinese school learn it. Repetition is key.

2. You might also have some trouble pronouncing certain sounds that do not exist in the English language. Here is a list of some troublesome sounds and tips on how to pronounce them based off of preexisting English consonants / vowels.

>:u in 鱼 (yu)- this is one of the hardest sounds to make. If you know how to whistle, one way to tackle it is to form your mouth in a whistling shape and and try to make the 'ee' sound by speaking with your mouth in that shape. (if you don't know how to whistle make a kissy face and then separate your lips by a little bit) Then add the y in front once you get the hang of it. It might sound crazy, but it's worked with a few of my friends lol. Another way to do it is to make the 'wee' sound backwards- just very quickly, with your mouth in a whistling shape. Try saying eeuweeuweeuw to try it.

x as in 喜 (xi)- this is also tough. It's like 'sh' but it's not, so don't mix them up. Try putting the tip of your tongue at the bottom of your front teeth with your mouth slightly open and lightly blow out. Let the air pass through in between your tongue and the sides of your mouth to make the sound.

zh as in 张 (zhang)- relatively easier. Try making the 'dsh' sound- that's basically it. Do not confuse zh with z. You will sound like an idiot, unfortunately.

3. This goes for learning a language in general, but when memorizing grammar / vocab try your best to connect it with your native language. Many languages share similar grammar techniques, just with different words. Remember, languages are just a form of communication, and describing actions through time. Also remember that languages are often shaped by ease of speaking and writing. It's never random. Try to pair up phrases from other languages in your head as you speak in your home language. Get a sense of common phrases. This is a technique that I learned while learning español in school. Analyze how you speak in your native language and try to connect it to your new language.


And yeah there's always just repetition. People that arent native english speakers have an advantage because it is relatively easy to submerge yourself in English (heh Smorgen) but if you want to submerge yourself in other languages comfortably there do exist channels on Ps dedicated to many different languages. Plus, Smogon itself is very multicultural, so don't be afraid to try to chat with native speakers of your target language! It's great practice :)

Good luck learning, everyone.


EDIT: btw don't use Google translate for anything except small phrases. It sux.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
As a native speaker of both Chinese and English, here are some tips for those struggling with 中文。

1. As Lee said, accents and tone are extremely important when it comes to pronunciation. Don't mess those up or you'll end up saying something completely different than what you mean. To practice this, go through the - / v \ tones for every vowel. That's how the little chinese kids in chinese school learn it. Repetition is key.

2. You might also have some trouble pronouncing certain sounds that do not exist in the English language. Here is a list of some troublesome sounds and tips on how to pronounce them based off of preexisting English consonants / vowels.

>:u in 鱼 (yu)- this is one of the hardest sounds to make. If you know how to whistle, one way to tackle it is to form your mouth in a whistling shape and and try to make the 'ee' sound by speaking with your mouth in that shape. (if you don't know how to whistle make a kissy face and then separate your lips by a little bit) Then add the y in front once you get the hang of it. It might sound crazy, but it's worked with a few of my friends lol. Another way to do it is to make the 'wee' sound backwards- just very quickly, with your mouth in a whistling shape. Try saying eeuweeuweeuw to try it.

x as in 喜 (xi)- this is also tough. It's like 'sh' but it's not, so don't mix them up. Try putting the tip of your tongue at the bottom of your front teeth with your mouth slightly open and lightly blow out. Let the air pass through in between your tongue and the sides of your mouth to make the sound.

zh as in 张 (zhang)- relatively easier. Try making the 'dsh' sound- that's basically it. Do not confuse zh with z. You will sound like an idiot, unfortunately.

3. This goes for learning a language in general, but when memorizing grammar / vocab try your best to connect it with your native language. Many languages share similar grammar techniques, just with different words. Remember, languages are just a form of communication, and describing actions through time. Also remember that languages are often shaped by ease of speaking and writing. It's never random. Try to pair up phrases from other languages in your head as you speak in your home language. Get a sense of common phrases. This is a technique that I learned while learning español in school. Analyze how you speak in your native language and try to connect it to your new language.


And yeah there's always just repetition. People that arent native english speakers have an advantage because it is relatively easy to submerge yourself in English (heh Smorgen) but if you want to submerge yourself in other languages comfortably there do exist channels on Ps dedicated to many different languages. Plus, Smogon itself is very multicultural, so don't be afraid to try to chat with native speakers of your target language! It's great practice :)

Good luck learning, everyone.


EDIT: btw don't use Google translate for anything except small phrases. It sux.
The Yu 鱼 sound in Mandarin is very similar to the French "U", the type of "u" in "jus d'orange"

And lots of people here learn French.
So... here's a short cut :p

---------

In Mandarin, when there's an "h" after the first consonant, it means you have to curl your tongue.
e.g. sh, zh, ch

as opposed to s, z, c which does not involve the curling of the tongue.
---------------

Ya, Smogon is very multicultural, and people here tend to know many languages.
I'm so surprised that so many people are learning Chinese.
I just never saw that coming.

Back when I was young, the parents of my classmates just try so hard to push their sons/ daughters into English schools or even international schools that does not require learning Chinese. And those are the same people who pretend they don't know any Chinese later on in life because it means that they could afford the higher tuition fees for English schools.

Even till now, a lot of people around me just simply do not think that learning Chinese was important.

I'm kind of glad that my parents were unlike them, despite I learnt my Chinese the hard way. But still, my sole reason was simply "one must know how to speak their own language" and nothing else.
I don't know why people here like to learn Chinese. Business reasons?
 
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Electrolyte

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The Yu 鱼 sound in Mandarin is very similar to the French "U", the type of "u" in "jus d'orange"

And lots of people here learn French.
So... here's a short cut :p

---------

In Mandarin, when there's an "h" after the first consonant, it means you have to curl your tongue.
e.g. sh, zh, ch

as opposed to s, z, c which does not involve the curling of the tongue.
---------------

Ya, Smogon is very multicultural, and people here tend to know many languages.
I'm so surprised that so many people are learning Chinese.
I just never saw that coming.

Back when I was young, the parents of my classmates just try so hard to push their sons/ daughters into English schools or even international schools that does not require learning Chinese. And those are the same people who pretend they don't know any Chinese later on in life because it means that they could afford the higher tuition fees for English schools.

Even till now, a lot of people around me just simply do not think that learning Chinese was important.

I'm kind of glad that my parents were unlike them, despite I learnt my Chinese the hard way. But still, my sole reason was simply "one must know how to speak their own language" and nothing else.
I don't know why people here like to learn Chinese. Business reasons?
Lol afaik Chinese parents are all about having their children learn Chinese and all of that. Whenever I talk about a classmate taking Chinese I get nagged about choosing Spanish as a third language instead. Oh well :/

I go to a school with a high chinese population, and many of them take either Latin or Chinese (one because it looks good and the other because it's easy for native speakers). I know a lot of non chinese people learning chinese though and it's because they want in on China's growing economy. (they forget that the government is wacko)

But that's not just for Chinese! i actually wanted to take German through high school because the German economy is solid (plus German is honestly the awesomest language ever) but my school didn't offer it until this year :/ It's also scientifically proven that you get smarter for every other language you learn. There are lots of benefits for learning a new language besides business / school reasons.


Also jynx's suggestions of using music to distinguish tones are very good ones. I've been told that Chinese has not only a strong connection with music but also enhances a speaker's musical sense.
 
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Cresselia~~

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Lol afaik Chinese parents are all about having their children learn Chinese and all of that. Whenever I talk about a classmate taking Chinese I get nagged about choosing Spanish as a third language instead. Oh well :/

I go to a school with a high chinese population, and many of them take either Latin or Chinese (one because it looks good and the other because it's easy for native speakers). I know a lot of non chinese people learning chinese though and it's because they want in on China's growing economy. (they forget that the government is wacko)

But that's not just for Chinese! i actually wanted to take German through high school because the German economy is solid (plus German is honestly the awesomest language ever) but my school didn't offer it until this year :/ It's also scientifically proven that you get smarter for every other language you learn. There are lots of benefits for learning a new language besides business / school reasons.
Ah, so you don't live inside China / Singapore then.
I see.

People of the same race do behave very differently depending on where they live. Moreover, "knowing your roots" is actually important.

People who live in Hong Kong or Singapore would definitely prioritize English over Chinese. (sadly!)
Whereas elsewhere, people find it cool, different, exotic, etc.
Also, their version of Chinese is way more easier.
Take A-level Chinese in the UK for example, a small kid who normally fails Chinese class in Hong Kong, can not only get an A, but finish the whole paper within 30 minutes. (Supposed to be 2 ~ 3 hours)
Also, workload does matter.

Well, yes. I would have guessed most non-Chinese would have learnt Chinese for business reasons. Especially when they mean several years ago.

But really, people now say that it had always been a bubble.
 
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Hmm, i've been studying Chinese for 2 years at the university level (first time learning a language) and I can say with certainty that it takes A LOT of hard work. It's hard to say if there is any one particularly great method to help with fluency in the 4 aspects of a language (Reading, Writing, Listening, Speaking) besides living in the country for a long time. A native speaking friend in the language and teachers will give you some decent practice in listening and speaking, but usually your writing and reading gets nowhere. Writing and reading isn't as emphasized in formal study from my experience or people just try to coast through class and not actually practice reading and writing.

In my two years I focused primarily on reading so I can read a lot better than anyone in my class. I know a couple thousand Kanjis and can read some light novels and newspaper articles without it being too much of a headache while my class probably can't even read the title. I still have to check a dictionary every now and then. Before I'd have to use a dictionary for every line but it was something I was willing to do because I enjoy reading those novels. My listening is also very sharp (I'd say near native speaker levels) due to comprehension of dialogue in the novels and my teacher. However, the tradeoff is that my speaking isn't that great (relative to my reading/listening) and my writing is practically nonexistent. I don't let other people know that I can speak Chinese besides a few chinese friends since I'm shy about it and the attention is annoying. For writing, it's because some genius developed Pinyin input so writing became less important for me lol (seriously, is anyone even great at writing for JP or CH?).

My main advice for learning a language is to learn it in a way where you can enjoy yourself at the same time despite the imbalance in the 4 aspects like I encountered. I love reading chinese novels that were translated from japanese and went through great lengths to improve my reading (about an hour or two of reading every day, sometimes even going as far as translating the text) and that also helped the other 3 aspects to a lesser extent. If you find learning the language to be a drag and only doing the class minimum, you'll never get anywhere. My teacher said I'm better than all her 4th year students and a lot of chinese americans so following only what you learn in class isn't enough (although, formal education will keep you honest about keeping up with the language to a certain degree). Everyone has their own methods, but the best methods are the ones you enjoy.

I don't know why people here like to learn Chinese. Business reasons?
Practicality, part of the reason why I didn't learn Japanese despite my anime habits or some other random Euro language. I don't mean it in a bad way, it's just that I wanted a language with great value and can be used often. I'm able to communicate with a billion more individuals and I agree, it is useful in a business setting. However, in my class barely anyone learned Chinese for business. Usually it is just fondness of the culture that prompted them to learn Chinese. Plus, along with Spanish, Chinese is the only other language that is truly useful in America in my opinion in terms of getting a lot of usage out of it.
 
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