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Legendary Fury

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by False Sense, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. False Sense

    False Sense

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    402
    [​IMG]


    Hello Smogon! This is my second Rate My Team since I joined, and its one that I've had a great deal of success with. I've been working on this for several months now, and it has gone through numerous revisions and tweaks since then. I'll spare you the details and focus just on the most recent version.

    This is a Balanced Bulky Offense team based around a VERY underused Dragonite set, but one that is (I think) one of, if not the BEST Dragonite set there is. Seriously, if you bother reading this whole thing give it a try. Anyway, lets get to the team building process.

    Team Building Process

    I wanted to build a team around the Dragonite set which I won't reveal just yet. So logic dictates that in order to use a Dragonite set, you need a Dragonite.

    [​IMG]

    Next I wanted a pokemon that could form a nice offensive core with Dragonite, weakening things that could counter it. For this role, I chose the somehow underused Keldeo. Calm Mind Keldeo to be exact.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Now that I had a pretty solid offensive core, I needed a solid defensive core that could take any hits I needed while covering each others weaknesses. Looking at Dragonite and Keldeo, I noticed that the Lati twins give them trouble. So in goes Specially Defensive Jirachi.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    While Jirachi has incredible special bulk, it's typing gives it an annoying weakness to Fire, as well as being somewhat vulnerable to strong Rain-boosted water attacks. It also hates Earthquakes. Specially Defensive Rotom-W patches up those flaws nicely.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    At this point I lacked a strong physically defensive presence. Also, I felt that Fighting types (particularly that annoying Terrakion) could be a severe threat to the team. I decided to deviate from the norm a little and went with the Physically Bulky Landorus-T.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The team looked solid at this point, but I lacked some important type coverage, as well as a revenge killer. So... Scarf Genesect.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The team did very well at this point. However, there were just a few notable weaknesses to Salamence and such. Thanks to the wonderful advice from LucaroarkZ and dragonuser, I decided to change Keldeo to a Scarf set and Genesect to an Expert Belt set.

    Then Genesect got banned. You'd think it would hurt my teams effectiveness, but I quickly found an excellent replacement for it: Expert Belt Cobalion. Also, I took up Princess Bri's suggestion of Chesto Rest Rotom-W.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The Team


    [​IMG]


    Landorus-T (M)
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Nature: Adamant (+ Atk, - Sp. Atk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-Turn
    - Stealth Rock

    Pity that this thing isn't used much. Landorus-T works as my physical wall and Stealth Rock user. It's easy for it to switch in and set up the rocks thanks to Intimidate, making it (I think) one of the best users of the move. EVs are pretty standard. Adamant is used to give Landorus an extra buff to it's already high attack power, since with Intimidate it doesn't need full defensive investment. Earthquake and Stone Edge, coming off that high attack, put fantastic offensive pressure on my opponent. U-Turn is one of the best things about this set. U-turn lets it come in, Intimidate the foe, and switch to something else for whatever the situation may be. It also hits surprisingly hard.

    Synergy

    Ice: Keldeo, Rotom-W, Jirachi, Cobalion
    Water: Keldeo, Rotom-W, Dragonite


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W
    Item: Chesto Berry
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 Sp.Atk / 232 Sp.Def
    Nature: Calm (+ Sp.Def, - Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunder Wave
    - Rest

    Rotom-W serves as the first of my two special walls. It provides me with a solid answer to rain teams that are so popular as of now. As for the moves, Hydro Pump is standard; hits hard and kills stuff. Volt Switch provides fantastic momentum and allows it to partner beautifully with Landorus. I ended up taking Princess Bri's suggestion and replaced Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split with Thunder Wave and Rest. Thunder Wave lets Rotom-W spread paralysis like a disease and create set up fodder for Dragonite, while Rest with a Chesto Berry lets it recover and remove status. This makes Rotom my main answer to Status Conditions.

    Synergy

    Grass: Dragonite, Jirachi, Cobalion



    [​IMG]
    Jirachi
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Sp.Def / 32 Spe
    Nature: Careful (+ Sp.Def, - Sp.Atk)
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Ah, Jirachi, somehow you always find your way into all of my teams... Anyway, Jirachi serves as the second of my two specially defensive walls. Jirachi's main purpose on the team is to take powerful Dragon attacks as well as provide precious paralysis and Wish support. Wish is actually quite important for the team, since Rotom and Landorus don't have (reliable) recovery. Iron Head provides that incredibly annoying flinch, Body Slam provides paralysis, and Protect lets Jirachi scout and get free wishes.


    Synergy

    Fire: Dragonite, Rotom-W, Keldeo
    Ground: Dragonite, Landorus-T, Rotom-W



    [​IMG]
    Cobalion
    Item: Expert Belt
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 228 Sp.Atk / 28 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Naive (+ Spe, - Sp.Def)
    - Close Combat
    - Hidden Power (Ice)
    - Volt Switch
    - Taunt

    Honestly, I don't care that Genesect got banned. This thing does everything it did better and more. Cobalions job on the team is to serve as a fast pivot for other team members, as well as taking care of annoying walls and such. With the given EV spread and an Expert Belt, it's capable of doing massive damage. Close Combat serves as a powerful STAB attack that wrecks Steel types and Tyranitar. HP Ice OHKOs most Dragons in the tier, which coupled with Cobalions Steel typing and great defense, makes Cobalion a great check to Dragons. Volt Switch hits Skarmory and Bulky Waters for a solid amount, and lets Cobalion keep up precious momentum. Taunt is probably the most important move on here. Cobalion happens to have insane speed, tying with Terrakion and Keldeo, and lets it completely shut down common walls and leads like Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress, and the like. With his ability to shut down walls and grab easy momentum, I think Cobalion has easily earned his spot on the team.

    Synergy

    Fire: Dragonite, Rotom-W, Keldeo
    Ground: Dragonite, Rotom-W, Landorus-T
    Fighting: Landorus-T, Dragonite



    [​IMG]
    Keldeo
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/ 4 Sp.Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+ Spe, - Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Surf

    Since I had a somewhat exploitable weakness to Salamence (and Thundurus-T), I decided to change Keldeo's set to a Choice Scarf set. My team greatly benefits from this, as I can finally outspeed and kill those annoying Choice Scarfers faster than Genesect. Hydro Pump and Secret Sword are standard, Hidden Power Ice handles dragons, and Surf is there in case I need a more reliable STAB.

    Synergy

    Grass: Dragonite, Jirachi, Cobalion
    Electric: Landorus-T
    Flying: Jirachi, Rotom-W
    Psychic: Jirachi, Cobalion



    [​IMG]
    Dragonite
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 60 Sp.Def / 132 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+ Spe, - Sp.Atk)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Dragon Dance
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Yep. Thats right, the Dragonite set I praised at the beginning is the vicious SubDD set. This thing is a monster, honestly. Once it comes in and gets a Sub up, very little can stop it from getting the Dragon Dance boosts it needs. If this thing is behind a Sub and has at least two DDs under it's belt, its practically game over. Not even steel types can wall this thing at +6.

    Anyway, for those of you who don't know, the EV spread here is standard: Max HP for strong Subs, 64 Def and 60 Sp.Def allow it's subs to survive an Iron Head or Thunder from the appropriate Jirachi, and 132 Spe helps it get quick boosts. Dragon Claw is the obvious STAB, Dragon Dance gives it vicious power, Substitute blocks status, criticals, all sorts of nasty stuff, and Roost brings Dragonite back into shape.

    Synergy

    Dragon: Jirachi, Cobalion
    Ice: Keldeo, Rotom-W, Jirachi, Cobalion


    Cores

    Every good team needs to have solid cores, so here are mine.

    Offense Core


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This core focuses on punching holes in the opponents team so that the other members can sweep. Cobalion breaks down walls that annoy the team like Skarmory and Heatran, Keldeo murders Mamoswine and Cloyster, two Ice types that give Dragonite trouble, and Dragonite cleans up.


    Defense Core

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This core is designed to take on any kind of threat the team faces. Rotom handles pretty much any standard Rain threat, as well as Ground and Fire types, which Landorus and Jirachi appreciate, respectively. It also does a nice job of checking Genesect. Jirachi takes any Dragon type attack for the core, while providing Wish support for the other two. Landorus-T has Intimidate to soften physical attacks, as well as taking on powerful fighting types the others can't. (Or at least Intimidating them and then switching to whoever can take care of the weakened opponent.) On top of that, Rotom-W also provides extra paralysis for the group, letting the core further cripple opponents.

    Volt-Turn Core

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Take Jirachi out of the Defence Core, replace it with Cobalion, and you've got an incredibly solid Volt-Turn Core. The focus of this core is to provide momentum to the team, which it does so admirably. Landorus-T has Intimidate to force switches, while it can U-Turn out to one of the others for instant momentum. Rotom-W does the same thing, only with Thunder Wave and Volt Swtich. Cobalion forces a ton of switches thanks to its lightning fast Taunt, and abuses that to the fullest with Volt Switch. At any time one of these pokemon can launch an extremely powerful attack on the opponent, which creates even further pressure on the opponent.

    Conclusion

    Well, thats my team! I hope you enjoyed the RMT and hopefully you'll provide some nice feedback. SubDD Dragonite truly is under appreciated, so give it a try sometime.

    Thanks for reading! ​
  2. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Hey, got your request.

    Anyway, this seems like a pretty solid team, but at the moment I think you could have trouble with DDMence/ScarfMence. Landorus-T is your only solid answer, though if Salamence is being used on a Rain team it will likely have Aqua Tail or Hydro Pump somewhere on its set. There isn't really an easy fix to this, because even though having Genesect as your sole revenge killer causes this problem, replacing it makes you weaker to Lati@s, among other things. To tell you the truth, I'm incredibly hard pressed to even find a solution to this problem, but the best solution I can find is to run a Choice Scarf Keldeo over your current set. It still helps you against Mamoswine/Cloyster and stuff, and even though Scarf Keldeo is not normally run outside of Rain, Hydro Pump should still be doing enough to Skarmory. With this change, you can revenge kill ScarfMence and +1 DDMence with HP Ice, something you'd be having trouble with before. Here's the set:

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power Ice

    Keldeo now has a harder time against Jellicent, but you should be able to handle it with Rotom-W, and SubDD Dragonite uses Jellicent as setup bait.

    All I can think of for now. Good luck!
  3. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Thanks for the feedback! Figures you would recognize a Salamence weakness...

    It's true that Salamence is a something of a pain. If it has that speed boost from Dragon Dance or Choice Scarf it threatens my whole team. I usually work around it, but it's annoying. Scarf Keldeo sounds like an interesting option. I'll give it a try.

    Edit: Actually now that I think about it, what about using Icy Wind on Keldeo? You could use it over Surf on the Scarf set and still be able to use HP Ghost.... Maybe....
  4. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Icy Wind actually does not guarantee the OHKO on Salamence w/o SR, though an 81% chance is still pretty good:

    252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence: 320-380 (96.67 - 114.8%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

    That's on Naive Salamence, though, so I can only imagine what it would be like against Jolly Salamence.

    I don't think HP Ghost is needed (HP Ghost on the Scarf set doesn't 2HKO Jellicent anyway, but it's better than nothing), but I'm not completely sure.
  5. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Well, it was an idea, anyway. Mostly just that Icy Wind would help slow things down, but oh well. I'll see what works. Thanks for the support!
  6. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner
    Moderator

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    Hey got the request,

    This is actually a really cool team, and finding a weakness is pretty hard. The most noticeable things seem to be Scarf Thundurus-T and DDMence. Like LucaroarkZ said pretty much any changes I think of will really mess with your synergy more than help it. For this reason I think switching the roles of two of your Pokemon would be the best option. They would essentially replace the roles of each other, in the hope to make your team a bit more efficient. So like LucaroarkZ said, I would heavily recommend making Keldeo a Choice Scarf set. Keldeo is quite possibly the best scarfer in this metagame, and using it would really help your team out a lot. It can stop any DDMence trying to sweep, and surf ko's Thundurus-T after rocks in the rain. Ok so with this change Genesect's role becomes a bit superflous, and breaking walls becomes a bit harder. So I would also recommend making your Genesect an Expert Belt Uturn set. Expert Belt is a very good set in this metagame since Choice Scarf is so common. It can get a bunch of surprise ko's and it helps to break down walls, which your team really appreciates. Anyways, cool team man and gl.
  7. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Thank you for the feedback! Much appreciated!

    That's definitely an interesting idea of yours. Flipping Keldeo and Genesects roles.... Hmmm... I think that's just crazy enough to possibly work beautifully. I'll give it a try.

    Also, on that note, yeah, Thundurus-T is a pain. Actually, I noticed beforehand that Salamence and Thundurus-T were the biggest threats to my team. I'm impressed you could figure that out just by looking at it. I think your suggestion might fix that problem, actually. If it does, my sincerest thanks for the idea.
  8. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Well, I updated the RMT with the proposed changes. Keldeo is now a Choice Scarfer and Genesect now uses an Expert Belt. These changes have so far worked well and seem to have improved the team for the better. Big thanks to LucaroarkZ and dragonuser for their contributions!
  9. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    Hey there! Came by request x) This is a really solid team so I don't have much to rate, but I do see a few weaknesses that should be addressed. The first weakness I spot is to every trainers favorite move: Scald. Scald seems to be especially troublesome to your team since none of your Water-resists appreciate a burn, Dragonite especially. Keldeo getting burned is a major bummer since it is now Choice-locked and doesn't gain back Leftovers recovery, and Rotom-W doesn't have reliable recovery to heal back the damage dealt from a Burn. Tentacruel seems like a major pain in the ass in general since it spins away hazards, threatens you with burns, etc. Strong special attackers like Volcarona also seem pretty threatening as well since Dragonite doesn't have the power to kill it immediately due to its set. An easy fix to help you solve both of your problems is to use a ChestoResto Rotom-W with Thunder Wave. ChestoRest Rotom-W gives you a good way to tank Scald as you can just Rest it off, and you also get a good Gliscor and Landorus lure since they could think you're Choice-locked. Cool team and good luck!

    set:

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W@ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpA / 252 SDef
    Calm (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Rest
    - Thunder Wave
    - Hydro Pump

    gl
    x) cool team
  10. False Sense

    False Sense

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
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    Hi Bri, thanks for the rate!

    I still don't understand how you people so easily highlight weaknesses like that, but oh well. Yeah, I hate status, and Scald is a seriously annoying move. (Fun fact: in a much earlier version of this team I ran Heal Bell Togekiss; no joke.) ChestoRest Rotom sounds pretty good actually; I'll definitely give it a try. I'm not quite sold on trading Will-o-Wisp for Thunder Wave, though. Will-o-Wisp helps compensate for only one physical wall, and it's worked nicely so far. I'll give Thunder Wave a try though; Dragonite loves setting up on paralyzed foes.

    Thanks for the advice!
  11. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Hi got your request. From what I can see the biggest threat to your team is actually hazard stacking team. Right now you have no way to get rid of or delay the on set of hazards whether it may be Magic Bounce, Rapid Spin, or having Taunt users. Without any of these hazard damage is going to rack up quick against your Volt-Turn core (which is going to be switching constantly) and Dragonite. To alleviate these issues I am going to reccomend a Rapid Spinner over Rotom-W: Blaistoise.

    Now I know Blastoise is a pretty unorthodox Poke to reccomend, but when I considered Starmie and Tentacruel in its place, I realized it opened up a very large weakness to Rock Polish Landorus and Mamoswine. Blastoise is bulky enough to comfortably check either threat and has access to Rapid Spin to make switching among your entire team easier. Unlike Starmie and Tentacruel it has access to Roar if you have the need to force out any threat. Your wish support from Jirachi will aid Blastoise into remaining healthy.

    Blastoise@Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    Calm Nature
    EV's: 248 HP / 84 Defense / 176 SpD
    -Rapid Spin
    -Scald
    -Roar
    -Toxic/Ice Beam

    If Blastoise doesn't work out you could always try Claydol>Landorus-T since it presents a similar set of resistances.
  12. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Hi, thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated!

    Blastoise, huh? I'll be honest, I'm not quite sure about that. For one, Rotom-W provides me with a nice check to Genesect, which is pretty important in this metagame. Also, it's typing is one of the main reasons I chose it over it's competition. Water/Electric + Levitate is, as we all know, fantastic defensive typing, and keeps Rotom from being vulnerable to Electric attacks. Actually, my team really doesn't like Electric attacks, as my main immunity, Landorus, is weak on the Specially Defensive side, and hates the Water/Ice moves often paired with it. I feel like adding a pokemon weak to Electric may be more harm to the team then it's worth.

    On the flip side, Blastoise would provide me nice support in phasing and spinning. I could see it being useful. I'll try it out, but I still need to do more testing with ChestoRest Rotom before I jump to conclusions.
  13. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Feb 2, 2012
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    Ok, so it would seem that one of my team members is about to get the boot out of OU. Of course, that member is Genesect. In anticipation of this, I would really love suggestions on what can fill the void Genesect will leave.

    Currently, Genesects role on the team is a wallbreaker/U-turner. Whatever replaces Genesect should hopefully be able to perform a similar job. I would love to hear anyones ideas about what can be done to fix this issue.
  14. StairFall

    StairFall

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    Hydreigon is slower than Genesect however the odd 98 speed tier makes that a non issue. Hydreigon is an excellent wallbreaker with a plethora of sets as well as u-turn. It can run an all out attacker set, sub + 3 attacks set and a choice specs set. However this will Add a second dragon weakness to the team as well as bring you down to a single steel type,Hydreigon also is exploited with smart switching because it relies on moves with drawbacks such as Draco meteor and super power. I would recommend another ebelt set Draco meteor, fire blast, earthquake and superpower but then you lose out on u-turn. You may have to re-evaluate your team with Genesect leaving because of how stand-alone and unique he is.
  15. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Well, after a good amount of time and only getting one response, I think I've found the new member of my team to replace Genesect.

    Meet Cobalion.

    [​IMG]
    Item: Expert Belt
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 28 Atk, 228 Sp.Atk, 252 Spe
    Nature: Naive (+ Spe, - Sp.Def)
    -Close Combat
    -Hidden Power Ice
    -Volt Switch
    -Taunt

    Cobalion is, I think, what my team really needed. It's mixed attacking powers are fantastic and let it do a great deal of damage to the opponents team. It's extremely fast Volt Switch provides easy momentum and hurts anything weak to it. Taunt is probably the best aspect of it. It lets me shut down walls and annoying hazard setters, forcing them to attack Cobalion or switch, and Cobalion can easily take a hit. Overall, I think it's proven its worth on the team.

    If anyone has any suggestions on how to improve the team further, or if they have an idea of something better than Cobalion, please don't hesitate to post. Thanks for all the support!
  16. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Updated with changes. Let me know what you think!
  17. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude based wooper #dealwithit
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    Hey man i got your request!

    Looking at this team it seems like it would really appreciate a rapid spinner especially seeing as the teams main purpose is to support a Dragonite sweep, due to Stealth Rock taking a 25% chunk of Dragonites health while breaking Multiscale. No rapid spinner also effects your volt turn core because their constant switching will eventaully wear them down to the point where they can't take to much hits. Your team is also quite Keldeo weak. Calm Mind Keldeo at +1 looks very threatening because it will take considerably less from Cobalion and Rotom-Ws Volt Switch and can outspeed both of them and hit them hard with Secret Sword anyway. He can hit Landorus-T super effectivly with Hydro Pump and the ones that carry Hidden Power [Ice] can also destroy Dragonite, Cobalion is also beaten by Secret Sword. In rain Jirachi won't like taking a Hydro Pump, and a +1 Keldeo can obviously beat your Keldeo.

    To help against Keldeo and give your team a rapid spinner i suggest Psyshock Starmie>Choice Specs Keldeo Starmie can spin hazards away from your teams side of the field with Rapid Spin and can also help against Keldeo with Psyshock. He is still a good pokemon to use in your offensive core being able to weaken some physical walls with his special moves to help pave the way for a Dragonite sweep. Starmie also lures in pokemon that are set up bait for SubDD Dragonite such as Jellicent, Blissey, Chansey and Gastrodon that lack Ice Beam. So you still get a good offensive pokemon in your team despite losing Keldeo. Starmie also has similar type coverage then Keldeo wielding Water and Ice-type moves just like the water pony. Starmie also provides you with another Water-type resist that doesn't mind burn or status for that matter due to Serene Grace.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Life Orb | Serene Grace
    Timid | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hydro Pump | Psyshock | Ice Beam | Rapid Spin

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide


    Starmie--->Keldeo



    ~Superpowerdude
  18. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Thanks for the feedback!

    Starmie... I've used it several times before, and frankly, I'm not fond of it. Too frail to take hits, not powerful enough without boosts... I've never been good at using it. Also, I'm not too sure about replacing Keldeo. It's current set helps me check all those dangerous dragons that otherwise could be very dangerous to my team. Starmie, without a Choice Scarf, can't really do much to boosted dragons. With a Choice Scarf, it could handle those dragons, but it would make Rapid Spin redundant. Also on the subject of Rapid Spin, I don't think my teams lack of it is a huge issue. You'd be surprised just how easy it is for Cobalion to come in and prevent hazards from ever being set. Also, SubDD Dragonite doesn't care as much about Stealth Rocks as much as, say, the Standard DD set. With Roost and the protection from Substitute, it can easily heal off any damage it received from Stealth Rocks, which the standard set can't do. Also I have Wish support to keep the team healthy.

    I don't mean to sound harsh here. I can definitely see Starmie's value. Natural Cure (as I assume you meant) is a pretty helpful ability to have, and it's coverage and speed could prove very useful. I'll give it a go, but I'm just not sure if it's the best choice for the team.

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