Lilligant (Sun Utility) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Katakiri

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#1
QC Approvals: AccidentalGreed, PK Gaming, Pocket
GP Approvals: sirndpt, badalcristano

[SET]
name: Sun UtiLily
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Hidden Power Rock
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Healing Wish
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SAtk / 64 SpD / 192 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While Lilligant is commonly seen boosting with Quiver Dance, this set can come as a surprise to opponents that expect Lilligant's more well-know sets. With Leaf Storm, Lilligant becomes an immediate threat, packing nearly the same power as a +2 Giga Drain, but without the need for prior setup. Leaf Storm allows her to OHKO Pokemon such as Tyranitar in sandstorm, Gyarados, Conkeldurr, and Landorus. Hidden Power Rock hits many of the Pokemon that resist Leaf Storm, such as Dragonite and Volcarona, for super effective damage. Sleep Powder allows her to neutralize Pokemon that resist Leaf Storm and her Hidden Power. It can also hit Pokemon that are bulky enough to not be KOed, preventing them from doing any harm to Lilligant or her teammates. Lilligant's ace in the hole is Healing Wish. Due to Chlorophyll, Lilligant has the fastest Healing Wish in the game, which enables her to bring back any teammate to full health. Since Healing Wish heals the incoming Pokemon before entry hazard damage, Healing Wish allows Pokemon who would otherwise be KOed by hazards to come back into the fray, which is particularly useful for the many Fire-types on Drought-based teams. Using this move comes at the cost of Lilligant's life, so it should only be used when Lilligant is of no more use to its team.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The Speed EVs allow Lilligant to outrun max Speed Politoed in neutral weather, as well as outpace +2 Jolly Cloyster in sun. The Special Defense EVs guarantee that she survives Choice Scarf Modest Politoed's Ice Beam, meaning that Lilligant is always a safe bet against Politoed, and leading with her can possibly earn you the weather advantage as early as the first turn of the battle. Hidden Power Fire is an option if you have reliable checks to Fire-, Flying-, and Bug-types, but you do lose a lot of coverage if you don't use Hidden Power Rock. Aromatherapy can replace Healing Wish, letting Lilligant cure her entire team of status, but she will no longer be able to restore the HP of her teammates. Stun Spore can be used over Healing Wish as well, creating an effective Double Powder strategy and supporting Lilligant's slower teammates, nevertheless, Healing Wish is by far the best option.</p>

<p>As the name suggests, this Lilligant is dependent on sun to function at her best. Stealth Rock is very welcome, as it gives her OHKOs on several other Pokemon and solidifies KOs on Pokemon she only has a percent chance to KO otherwise such as Gyarados, Scrafty, Espeon, and Machamp. Scizor poses a huge problem as it's one of the most common Pokemon that can strike her before she moves; it also resists Leaf Storm. However, Lilligant has the natural bulk to take one Choice Band Bullet Punch. Steel-types in general pose huge problems to Lilligant, so Magnezone and bulky Fire-types are the best partners for Lilligant, outside of the obligatory Ninetales. This set's job is to patch the problems that sun teams generally have, and because of that she works with her team, and isn't the centerpiece of a team.</p>
 

Woodchuck

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#2
Looks great! I should try this set some time.
Minor nitpick:
-Support, sweeper, & a cleric wrapped into one Pokemon
It's not a 'cleric' per se. Clerics are users of Heal Bell and Aromatherapy, whereas Healing Wish only cures one Pokemon.

also don't forget the [SET] at the very beginning.
Nice job.
 
#3
this set... this poke... this is incredible. I've been trying it on a bunch of alts, and the "wow" factor and the effectiveness... this thing is great.
 
#5
I love this thing.
i always use this on my sun team.

can you slash in hp ice on this thing? i found it very useful for dragonites and dragons and landorus and gliscor (if at -2) and other chlorophyll sweepers that are slower.
 
#6
No need to slash hp ice since hp rock hits the main dragons outside of haxorus while leaf storm hits landorus and gliscor hard.
 
#7
Hidden Power Ice is basically only useful for weakened Lati@s/Celebi and half-dead non-speed boosting nature Chlorophyll Pokemon. Sure, you also hit Breloom and Ferrothorn harder with HP Ice, but both of them should be answerable on a Sun team. Virizion will beat you even if you have HP Ice.

Hidden Power Rock, on the other hand, hits Forretress neutrally, Heatran neutrally, and smashes Volcarona, among other things.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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#8
Think of it this way: would you rather have an attack that achieves neutral coverage which does a few KOes besides the weakened (the most notable target being Volcarona of all things), or an attack that has great coverage and utility, but you lose out on hitting a few (which you can to with teammates)?

Thus, we have an issue that Celebi, Lucario, and Scizor have to deal with.
 

Katakiri

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is a Pokemon Researcher
#11
HP Ice isn't really good on her. Salamence is hit hard enough by HP Rock and Landorus would be a fool to switch in on Lilligant even at -2 Sp.Atk. HP Ice only matters against Dragonite, Lati@s, & Haxorus. (What's a Hydreigon?) A resisted (or -2) Leaf Storm is just short of an unresisted Giga Drain in terms of Power so Haxorus takes 65.99% - 77.55% from Leaf Storm anyway.

It's just not worth giving up the ability to take down Fire-types. If there's enough demand, I'll make a mention of it in additional comments.

I already have HP Fire in Additional Comments.
 
#12
No mention of potential offensive partners? While [Chlorophyll sweeper], Ninetales and something to deal with Steel-types are obvious choices to the average player, it would probably be better to give at least a specific example(s) of a Pokemon that benefits from the holes that Doredia can punch in opposing teams. Volcarona really appreciates Gyarados being dead, and can deal with the Steel-types Doredia normally has problems with (bar Heatran of course); Sawsbuck and Shiftry would have a much better shot at sweeping with Conkeldurr lured out, in turn giving Doredia some insurance against Celebi and Latias; Grass-types in general love the ability to spam Solarbeam freely, which is definitely possible if Tyranitar is out of play. While it's not really important to have a list of Pokemon that can be played alongside Doredia, it would be great to at least give those reading this set an idea of what Doredia's weaknesses are and how to fix them during the team building process -- Magnezone doesn't really 'explain' that grass is a mediocre offensive type in this metagame.

Also, I'm a bit confused on what Stun Spore is doing for Doredia and its team. It's really not as if ScarfTerrak or anything faster will be switching into Doredia anytime soon and sun sweepers usually need one turn max in order to successfully pull off a sweep. If the potential free turn is the reason behind why Stun Spore is slashed, then Teeter Dance might as well be slashed as well. Vamping a sweeper up for another go is infinitely more useful than playing around with luck; 75% accuracy is also pretty depressing at times. Personally, I think that the set should be re-ordered in order to reflect how this set is and should be used:

[SET]
name: Sun Utility
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Hidden Power Rock
move 4: Healing Wish
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SAtk / 64 SpD / 192 Spe

Leaf Storm is definitely the crux of this set, as it scares away threats to sun, is a very useful tool in revenge killing and dents most of what switches into Doredia. Unless Doredia's main goal is to die (which should only be the case later in the game when a sweep from another Pokemon has a good chance of being secured), Healing Wish should be last. It's not really important, but showing the significance of each move just looks so much better in the long run.

Also, generalize Hidden Power in AC (SC...?) and mention why Leaf Storm and HP Rock are usually better. That will clear up any concern about whether or not HP Ice should be used for dragons, HP Ground for Heatran and steels, HP Fire for Nattorei, etc.

Nice set, as always~
 

AccidentalGreed

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#13
I see no need for Stun Spore, seeing that the Sun teams Lilligant should be placed on should be offensive, and thus either abuse Chlorophyll or are naturally fast. Other than that, a teammate-oriented support move is basically necessary in that last slot, so I would eliminate Stun Spore altogether. For other options, you can mention Safeguard and Aromatherapy as alternative ways to buffer status, though obviously, you can't "heal a teammate as efficiently".
 
#14
This is a great set! I agree with A.G. Stun Spore is unnecessary on this set and Healing Wish is superior in every possible way imaginable. Sun teams are honestly never going to need paralysis support. The most prominent trait with Sun teams is their Speed, as its filled with Chlorophyllers and Speed Demons such as Volcarona, Infernape, and Scarf Darmanitan. Paralysis is so useless for supporting a sun team its not even funny. The only thing it might help to do is give you an occasional parahax break. You would be much better off putting a threat to Sleep and getting out. As A.G. said, slash Aromatherapy instead of Stun Spore. This gives Lilligant a way to cure your team's status without killing itself. I would AC both Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Fire. The former hits Dragonite and Salamence significantly harder, while the latter disposes of Scizor and Ferrothorn. I would also AC Quiver Dance and Giga Drain in place of Leaf Storm and HP Rock. While Leaf Storm+HP Rock is obviously superior, a mono attacker can still wreak havoc late game with enough Quiver Dance boosts, and should Lilligant find itself unable to complete a sweep, simply tap your escape pod button: Healing Wish.
 

BTzz

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#15
Great set Katakiri. I would personally keep Stun Spore since sun teams tend to carry slower guys like Heatran or Dragonite. Even Chloro sweepers like Exeggutor or Tangrowth would appreiciate para support to beat certian scarfers.

When I was using this set I had decent sucess with Light Screen over HP Rock so maybe a mention in ac? Lilligant is fast so she can get light screen up with ease and going out to heal a sweeper while you have a Screen up is great.
 

Katakiri

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is a Pokemon Researcher
#16
I'm not going to even mention running Quiver Dance or Giga Drain. Leaf Storm is almost as powerful as a +2 Giga Drain & -2 Leaf Storm comes just short of being as strong as an unboosted Giga Drain. The main selling point of the set is that immediate power.

I'm keeping Stun Spore for now. I'll let QC figure out what to do with that since there's mixed feeling about it. I've always liked the Double Powder strategy even on Roserade back in Gen 4. It might even be an option to run over HP Rock but that might be stretching it.

Added Aromatherapy. I tried it out and it definitely gets the job done but I do still prefer Healing Wish.

I didn't notice Light Screen doing much for Lilli since her most common switch-ins are physical so it doesn't really help her or her team in the long run. Reflect would be great if she got it...

Anyway thanks for all the support, guys!

Edit: ...Why the hell does Lilligant get Dream Eater?! I never noticed that before.
 
#17
The point of Giga Drain is not the power, but for the healing, similarly, Quiver Dance is useful for the Special Defense boost. Granted, Leaf Storm+HP Rock/Fire/Ice is definately superior, which is why Giga Drain should only be AC.
 
#18
Doredia doesn't have the bulk, coverage or time to mess around with Giga Drain / Quiver Dance when running a set such as this. She SHOULD be trying to lure out and subsequently KO threats to sun teams, such as Gyarados and opposing weather starters. Weak Drain is also pretty weak, so it's pretty unlikely that the HP Doredia gets back from it will be worth the huge loss in power, coverage or utility.
 

alexwolf

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#19
Posting to attest to this set's effectiveness!
The best thing about this set is that it is a very good lead against both rain and sand teams which tend to lead with Ttar,Politoed,Ferro and Rotom-W.
Also i think that HP Ice should be slashed along with HP Rock since dragons are very big enemies of sand teams in general and Doredia can outspeed every singe one of them in the sun.While they don't get ohkoed Hp Ice still does plenty of damage to the Lati twins,enough to RK when needed.
 
#20
Awesome utility set. Just remove the Stun Spore slash, mention Aromatherapy in AC (you simply can't pass up healing wish, its way too good) and slash HP fire alongside HP Rock.
 
#21
I love this set, it is really playable
one thing I would mention is that Nite is a great partner, because Healing Wish activates Multiscale even with rocks up. I see no need for HP fire or HP ice, since the last one wont do enough damage to Haxorus or Venusaur to KO, while HP rock kills nite and Volcanora, the most common switch ins. I just made a team with this test and it killed easily Volcanoras Counters, and when I didnt get a sweep with volcanora, nite did it always.

Nice set
 

Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Pokemon Researcher
#22
Just cleaned up the OP a bit:
- Corrected the format!
- Removed mention of Deoxys-S
- Moved Stun Spore to AC
- Minor wording changes
 

blarajan

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#23
Does Healing Wish being properly implemented change how you play this set?

IE, being able to fully heal any Pokemon and THEN have it take entry hazard damage?
 

Katakiri

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is a Pokemon Researcher
#24
No, that function of Healing Wish was corrected before I wrote this. The only difference since then is that it doesn't restore PP anymore but it still plays exactly the same.
 

AccidentalGreed

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#25

[1/3]

Make sure to emphasize alternative Hidden Powers if a sun team has problems with certain threats. Overall coverage isn't necessarily convenient in certain situations.