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Luce, Use The Force [OU RMT]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Maketsu, May 31, 2010.

?

Is it Smeargle the best Pokémon?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. Yes, of course

    4 vote(s)
    57.1%
  1. Maketsu

    Maketsu

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    83
    Introduction
    ------------------------------
    Good Morning Smogon, this is one of my favorite and it's maybe the best I have made. It has been on the leaderboard a few times, but I have not been active so I dropped out of there. The main plan is very simple, set up layers and sweep easily with Lucario or with the other members.

    The team is very offensive, and i have noticed that it's almost the easiest style to play. I have worked with this a lot. I have changed many times the members, tested other leads and sweepers but now i'm satisfied. But without longer talks, here's the team:

    At a glance:
    ------------------------------

    .[​IMG]. [​IMG]. [​IMG]. [​IMG].[​IMG] .[​IMG].
    ............





    Building Process
    ------------------------------


    [​IMG]
    So here's the start. I have so long used as a main Sweeper so i wanted to use something else. I decided to pick Lucario, because it's massive power and opportunity to sweep whole teams with that Extremespeed. Luce is just so awesome.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Now when i had lucario I decided to pick Smeargle to set up those layers to help Lucarios Sweep. SR + Spikes + Extremespeed = <3____<3 I can easily rip off whole teams. And why not Skarmory? I personal dislike Skarmory and i taught it doesn't work very well. Second thing was Spore. Spore, oh Spore. I love that move.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Because layers are quite important to this team it would be shame to lose them against Rapid Spinners I decided to pick Rotom to my Spin Blocker. I'm really not sure would I use Rotom-W or Rotom-H, suggestions?

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    After Smeargle and Rotom-H were added to the team, Scizor was my obvious third choice. Also Scizor profit a lot from layers which Smeargle sets ups and it could finish off if Lucario has knocked off. OU team without Scizor? No way!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Salamence, it's just awesome. It could be real pain in the ass for opponents team. It's job is soften opponents team for Lucarios sweep. Also it's important counter to many threats for my team with it's ability; Intimidate.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    First I had Heatran in this slot, but then i noticed i have 3 Fighting weakness and Heatran didn't fit very well onto my team so I switched it to Suicune. Suicune also is important check to Scizor and Lucario which are problem to my team when it's weakened.


    Closer look
    ------------------------------


    [​IMG]
    Smeargle (M) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spore
    - Spikes
    - Encore
    ---
    Smeargle, you are so lovely Pokemon. Smeargle is the fastest Spore user without Choice Scarf. Stacking Spikes and Stealth Rocks against sleeping foe is just so simple. Spike stacking is the main idea of this offensive team, i think Smeargle is the best pokemon to take that role. It's fast and when useful.

    Smeargle is a bit difficult to use. Most commons leads like Aerodactyl and Azelf runs over Smeargle, i know it but many players have forget chance to switch. I can easily just switch something to take care off troublesome leads and come back later to set up layers. Only drawback is loosen Focus Sash and waiting that set up.

    EV's: EV spread is basic. Max speed to outspeed all what i can. HP and Defence EV's is to take even a little hits. Smeargles defences are weaker than paper…

    Moves: Moves are too very basic. Layers + Sleep. Only not normal is Taunt, i think. It's against Rest Talkers which come in to absorb Spore but i make them unuseful with taunt.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/10 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - U-turn
    - Quick Attack
    ---
    CB Scizor OU team without it isn't real OU team. After Rotom-W and Smeargle Scizor was obvious choice. Scizor is just awesome, everyone knows it. U-Turn is a ridiculous move and very useful every team. I can scout opponents team with it and also it could bust out Magnezone which tries to trap it. Also U-Turn deals a lot damage to poor pokemons which switch into it and it gives me free switches. Scizor's only weakness is covered easily by Salamence and Suicune. Most commons counters to Scizor, example Gyarados and Zapdos are nicely covered by other team. Both of them take 25% from Stealth Rocks and Rotom easily checks them, also Lucario and Scizor can check them with priority moves. Suicune walls Zapdos and can Roar it out to take 25% SR damage again.

    EV's: This is standard CB Scizor and EV's are straight from Smogon.

    Moves:
    Bullet Punch is Scizors crux. STAB + Techinician boost, i have to love it.
    I like Quick Attack over Superpower to deal with Gyarados.
    U-Turn is useful to counting and getting free switch in.
    Pursuit allows to pick out Choice Locker ghosts, like Rotom Forms and Gengar.

    [​IMG] -
    Rotom-H @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Overheat
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    ---
    Spike stacking team without good spin blocker, not nice. First I used Scarfed one, but I think this is better. This helps to wall many pokemons, like Gyarados and make it broken with Will-O-Wisp. This is easy switch in Rapid Spinners like Starmie, Tentacruel, Forretress and I can OHKO them all. Tentacruel is 2HKO after SR damage and Starmie are OHKO with STAB Thunderbolt and Forretress goes easily down with Overheat.

    EVs: 252 HP is for taking much ass possible. 88 Spe is for outspending max speed Adamant Scizor. Remaining EVs are dumbed in Defense for walling sweepers.

    Moves:
    Thunderbolt is an useful STAB with chance of paralyzing.
    Shadow Ball is too an useful STAB move. It have too chance of Special Defense Drop, so thats nice. :)
    Overheat is very powerful Rotom-H own exclusive move, and with this move Rotom-H is handy switch in pokemons like Lucario, Scizor and Metagross. All of them are 1-2HKO.
    Will-O-Wisp is just very useful move to cripple those opponents sweepers.

    [​IMG]
    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Roar
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    ---
    I decided to pick Suicune when I realized that I had bad Fighting weakness, example Lead Machamp get me a headache. Suicune helped me a lot in this. Machamp is easily walled by Suicune, I made some calculations and Max Attack Dynamic Punch makes only 27% - 32.2% damage. I haven't used Suicune at all, but now on the first time, i like it! Suicune brings me good to Gyarados and Salamence OHKO'ing both of them with HP Electric and Ice Beam. Roar fits very well this team with dealing some damage when SR and Spikes are in play.

    Also because Rotom-H is cold stopped by Heatran this is easy switch in and OHKO with Surf. Suicune has too nice synergy with other members, like Scizor resisting Fire.

    EVs: EVs are placed to max HP and Defense for surviving, because Suicune has no way to boost it's defense and most people try to take it down with physical moves. 4 last EVs are just dumbed in Special attack.

    Moves:
    Surf is necessary to Suicune, powerful STAB with calm mind boost, nice.
    Calm Mind is for set upping and it makes Suicune very difficult to take down.
    Roar is maybe most important move on this Suicune because whole team dance around Spikes and Stealth Rocks so now I can profit a lot more from them
    Fourth move was a bit harder to choice, but i picked up Ice Beam to take out those Salamences.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 16 Atk/252 Spd/240 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    ---
    Salamence has so many variants, so you cant always be so sure which one it is. Thats why everyone have to be on toes against Salamence. The reason why I use New Mix Mence is for it's ability to do immediate damage against the opponents team. There are very few pokemons which can easily switch in Life Orb Salamences Draco Meteor, that move makes so much damage. Outrage also provides Salamence to sweep in the late game with it's incredible 135 base Attack stat.

    Intimidate ability also prove useful in late game against pokemons like Lucario and Scizor. 80 base def sound first a bit poor but coupled with Intimidate it's my turn to laugh. Salamence has also good synergy with rest of team. Rotom-H easily checks threats like CB Scizor and SD Lucario, same does Suicune. Salamence fits perfectly in team and to it's role to roughing opponents team ready for sweep.

    Moves: Draco Meteor is powerful STAB and it deals a lot damage.
    Outrage is a physical powerful STAB
    Fire Blast and Earthquake are against difference Steel pokemons.

    [​IMG]
    Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Extremespeed
    - Bullet Punch
    - Swords Dance
    ---
    Ahh, Lucario is my star of the show. And the one who's around whole team is builded. When I switch in, it's beginning of opponents end. When entry hazards are on stage and i get one Swords Dance then the game ended. After one Swords Dance there is only few pokemons to take Close Combat with Spikes and SR support, i don't count Ghosts. (ba-dum-tss) In every match i hope that one Pursuit users come in to Rotom and I could get easy Set up, then I just spam Extremespeed and Close Combat till the game ends.

    Lucario has good synergy with Rotom-H and Salamence. Lucario can take Ice and Dark hits and the other way around Salamence resist Ground with Levitate and Rotom-H is immune to Fighting. Rotom-H and Suicune can both take Fire moves.

    Lucario is perfect combo with Spikes and Stealth Rocks, and it's best late game sweeper when i have those entry hazards. Most powerful priority move is just awesome.

    EVs: Max speed and Max power, so simple. I don't have to tell anymore. D:

    Moves: Close Combat have amazing power, after 1 SD it can OHKO even Bronzong.
    Swords Dance is for set up
    Extremespeed hits hard to every one faster than Lucario
    Crunch is OHKO against ghosts which are immune to both CC and extremespeed.

    Close Combat vs. max HP / Def Skarmory 84.4% - 99.7%
    Close Combat vs. max HP / Def Bronzong: 95.2% - 100% (67% chance to OHKO)
    Close Combat vs. max HP / Def Hippowdon: 75.7% - 89.3%
    Close Combat vs. max HP / Def Forretress: 79.7% - 93.8%
    Close Combat vs. max HP / Def Donphan: 82.0% - 96.9%
    Crunch vs. max HP / Def Cresselia: 63.5% - 74.8%
    Crunch vs. max HP Cresselia: 85.1% - 100% (2.6% chance to OHKO)
    Crunch vs. max HP / Def Dusknoir: 88.4% - 100% (21% chance to OHKO)
    Crunch vs. max HP / Def Celebi: 78.7% - 93.1%
    Crunch vs. max HP / Def Rotom - Appliance: 100%

    Conclusion
    ------------------------------

    Changes are in Bold.

    Overall I think this is succefull team and i like to use it. I like using Smearlge because todays meta game it's very underestimate lead. Many of games have ended opponents rage quits, which tells a lot of this team. After Latias is gone, i have one big threat less. That's very nice thing! :) Now i'm just waiting your rates and suggestions, while I try to play this back on leaderboards.

    P.S. I noticed that my team reminds a lot Kevin Garrets "Team Kevis, Come Home" but i haven't copy his team. Only I picked his EV spread on Smeargle. I dont want that someone thinks i have copied this team!

    [​IMG]

    Biggest Threats
    ------------------------------

    [​IMG]
    Calm Mind + Wish Jirachi:
    This one is also hard to handle. If it gets few Set ups it rapes my whole team. Salamence cant OHKO it with Earthquake, Lucario cant with Close Combat, Suicune is beated by thunderbolt. Rotom-H can handle Jirachi if it dont get set ups.
  2. KidX

    KidX

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    Hello!

    Here's a quick rate, Very nice team you have, you may be using standard sets but you place them in a way that they cover each other's weakness nicely. Just a little nitpick, Scarftar can KO roughly 2/3 of your team, but you don't really need to worry about this too much because of scizor and suicune, so at the moment i see no flaws, but then again im really tired, so....yeah...

    Good Luck!
  3. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Lol I think that was a typo since their is no WAY that Suicune walls Zapdos.

    I see that you are slighty weak to water tyes in general especially Rotom is gone.

    Personally think that Skarmory works sligtly better as your lead

    Kingdra and Tunt Gyarados can give you realy problems. To this end I sugest a CM + Wish Jirachi. It does the same thing as your suicune however it can hit Bulky Waters with Thunderbolt and can support your team with wish.
  4. Maketsu

    Maketsu

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    83
    Thanks for rates! :)

    Well, I was a bit tired and i only expect that Suicune could Wall Zapdos. :D

    I have think using Skarmory as lead and i'll test it when i go home. (I'm in school right now) But in my opinion Smeargle has worked very well. On paper it's maybe a bit bad, but really it's working well!

    Gyarados and Kingdra haven't been yet big problem, but i haven't met them a lot. But Scizor can maybe 2HKO Gyarados after SR damage, i'm not sure. Also i have tried to use HP Electric on Suicune.

    But Your Jirachi sounds good, i'll test how it works when i get home. :)

    Now we have good start, dont stop rating! Everyones rates and suggestions are goods!
  5. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Lol Perhaps Bullet Punch on Lucario is worth a mention as it handles 2 of Lucarios main cunters: Scarf Tar and Gengar.
  6. Maketsu

    Maketsu

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    83
    Rotom-A stop cold Lucario if i'm using Bullet Punch, after 1 SD it does only 32.2% - 38.4%.

    But anyway, first i'll test usin Bullet Punch on Lucario and HP Electric on Suicune. After that i'll try usin CM + Wish Jirachi over Suicune. After some testing i'll make my decision. :)
    E: Also i'll test Skarmory.

    E2: After some testing I found that Suicune has better synergy with other team than Jirachi. Also i decided to use Bullet Punch on Crunch, i have to Pursuit that Rotom-A off before set upping Lucario.

    So on Suicune I change HP Electric and for Lucario Bullet Punch.
  7. S7atcat

    S7atcat

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    22
    Basically what your telling me is you hate synergy and want Heatran and Magnezone to rape your face?
  8. Maketsu

    Maketsu

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    83
    I said that I try that Jirachi. I didnt say I immediatly replace Suicune with it. And after testings I made my decision to keep Suicune. This was edited in my older post: After some testing I found that Suicune has better synergy with other team than Jirachi.
    Is it that what you meant?

    I made some updates, fire away your rates! :)
  9. Sir Charles

    Sir Charles

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Why don't you just go with Vaporeon over Suicune? All in all this team gets beat by Magnezone.
  10. george182

    george182

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    484
    Lead smeargle. First the ev's. You have maxed out speed. In the top ten leads for april. This achieves nothing. The only remotely common lead you are beating is lum berry dragonite, which is pointless to outspeed anyway. Secondly you have taunt, have you ever used taunt on smeargle, it is a waster. Spend the time layer down hazards. Thirdly you have split the ev's which is pointless, as smeargle is 2HKOed by pretty much anything, if you max out defence you can make bullet punch a 3hko. As you have a sash, it's all about the 3hko's. You also have SR + Spikes. The only time ur getting all of these down is a gainst a noob, who you should beat anyway.

    Becuase of this, I suggest a set like:
    Smeargle @ Focus sash
    Bold
    252 hp/252 defence/4 speed
    - Spore
    - Spikes
    - Encore
    - U-turn / SR

    The smogon thing is old, and taunt is there for sleep talkers, who tbh are rarely a problem. Spikes 4 entry hazards of course. Encore means u can save ur spore, leads like swampert and bronzong will SR first turn. So you just encore them, it also works well when people try to set up on smeargle, big mistake. Encore lasts a minimum of 4 turns, enough time to set up 3 spikes and switch to a counter. U-turn lets you beat azelf and aerodactyl, and switch out without being outpredicted. Also azelf and aero always taunt smeargle and you get a free switch to Scizor and they achieve nothing. The ev's mean you can take a hit so if your sash is down you can still use smeargle. Feel free too mess with the ev's but I see no point for lead smeargle to max out his speed. U-turn is just there to break the sash on taunt leads really, so if you need SR put it there.

    If you need SR on something else. I suggest duel screen uxie instead of suicune.

    BTW I like the scizor and lucario idea. Especialy scizor, I always tie between quick attack and pursuit. But superpower I never use tbh. However lucario is badly walled by celebi and dusknoir, as well as spiritomb. Now celebi is the only common one, but as she gives you team so much trouble. I highly recommend crunch over extreme speed. You can still use bullet punch for priority you are just going to have to majorly weaken counters. Luckily scizor draws in BP counters.

    If you keep suicune, I would put duel screens on rotom and make suicune an offensive set but keep the leftovers. She has plenty of bulky behind the screens and can sweep really well

    Suicune @ leftovers
    Timid
    4hp/252 sp.atk/252 speed
    - Calm mind
    - Surf
    - Ice beam
    - HP electric

    you can pretty much hit every OU with either you stab move, or a super effective attack. This is an offensive team and your gonna keep the momentum going.

    Magnezone does not really rape this team. Firstly smeargle, any poke troubles smeargle so magnezone can be discounted on him. Scizor well yea, but keep u-turning and lure it in. Rotom-H OHKO's with overheat. Suciune she can switch out, but an offensive suicune 2hko's with surf, without being OHKOed in return. Even better if you have duel screens. Mence OHKO's with fire blast. Lucario OHKO's with CC, unless its scarfed, in which case you will need to play around it and keep lucario hidden.

    This is a HO team, which is why I suggest duel screens and a offensive suicune.
  11. Maketsu

    Maketsu

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    83
    How would it help? o.O

    2 must have moves on my Smeargle are Spikes and SR, expecially SR, because i leave counting Gyarados and Salamence with priority moves after they have taked damage from SR. But that EV spread really sound good. U-Turn would be nice too to broke Sash, but we have only 4 moves slots. :D

    I dont know, Lucario without Extremespeed, sound really weird. And i have noticed in games that I get very many OHKO's with Extremespeed. So it just doesn't sound really good, but that's true Celebi wall it easily still i dont know would Crunch help because Celebi outspeeds Lucario and OHKO with Earth Power. I can now check Celebi with switching Rotom-H or Salamence in Earth Power and OHKO with Fire Blast or Overheat.

    And i just dont like to play Superpower on Scizor, i think it's not useful. :)

    Well at first, i though this isn't Heavy Offensive team. o.o That's why there are Rotom and Suicune. That's why I little shun of that Dual Screens and Offensive Suicune. But that sounds still interesting, i'll at least test it. :)

    Thanks again for your rates, expecially George, your ideas sound really good and i think they will help me. :)

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