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Machoke (QC REJECTED)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by November Blue, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    • Great bulk with Eviolite.
    • Unique No Guard + DynamicPunch combo gives it an uncontested niche.
    • Also has access to Ice Punch and RestTalk, quite useful for Gligar and other Flying-types, as well as all the status being flung around.
    • Base 100 attack is fairly good, but low by RU Fighting-type standards.
    • More potent defensive capabilities than Gurrdurr and possibly Hariyama, as it can recover and absorb status reliably, and free turns from confusion augment its longevity.
    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: DynamicPunch
    move 4: Ice Punch / Payback
    item: Eviolite
    ability: No Guard
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Quite bulky, can fill a defensive role.
    • Not walled by Gligar, but is instead walled by Slowking, who resists DynaPunch, Ice Punch, and takes reduced damage from Payback due to lower speed.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    • Alternate spread with more Special Defense (still runs max Attack)
    • Pairs well with Klinklang, Moxie SubRoost Honchkrow, and other sweepers that are checked by Steel-types.
    • Works great in defensive cores, even bulky offense ones. Covers Bug, Rock and Dark weaknesses really well. Sharpedo, Crawdaunt, Moltres, Scyther (and other flying Bugs), and Haunter, for example, appreciate Machoke.

    [Other options]


    • None. Maybe a different secondary attack instead of Ice Punch or Payback, such as Rock Slide.
    [Checks and Counters]



    • Flying- or Psychic-types such as Honchkrow, Kadabra, Moltres, and Exeggutor can outspeed and threaten with powerful attacks, but may not be able to achieve a KO, and are confused or KOed in return. Somewhat hard to counter reliably because of this factor.
    • Dunknoir and Cofarigus are immune to Machoke's best asset.
    • Taunters that can block RestTalk, hsve the bulk to take Punches, and can 2 or 3HKO Machoke, such as Gligar (bar Ice Punch) and Qwilfish.
    • Poison types; Qwilfish, Golbat, and Amoonguss.
  2. athleteandy1

    athleteandy1

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    Interesting set name. Might want to shorten it to something like Rest Talk or Bulky Machoke or something along those lines.

    Also, stating the obvious, but be sure to complete this.
  3. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Updated, hopefully ready for QC now.

    I'd really like someone to weigh in on the other sets (Bulk Up and Choice Band). Machoke can't really abuse Bulk Up well due to the lack of Drain Punch, Guts, recovery, and Leftovers.

    A Choice Band set might be viable, but is horribly outclassed.

    Thoughts?
  4. scienceguy

    scienceguy

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    You might want to mention guts+restTalk set in OO. I think that it would get the boost with sleep, right? Anyway, it'd be bulky and hit fairly hard while its sleeping anyway. the problem with the set though is that dynamic punch isn't a guaranteed hit, close combat is counter productive, so cross chop is the best option for stab. Whatever you think I guess.
  5. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Guts RestTalk is completely otuclassed by Hariyama. Cross Chop is horribly inaccurate for a main STAB too.

    I'm not sure what QC's stance is on outclassed sets, but it might work. Even so, it's so inferior to No Guard DynaPunch that I'm not really sure it's worth using.
  6. scienceguy

    scienceguy

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    I didn't even think of Hariyama's RestTalk set, you're right, Machoke does worse defensively (I did some calcs) and doesn't get leftovers recovery so yeah nevermind
  7. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    what exactly does this have over gurdurr? I am honestly not sure if this set is any good. I ll give it a test. Also the counter section needs to be expanded to poison types as well.
  8. Omicron

    Omicron
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    To be honest, I think Machoke is infinitely outclassed by nearly all the other Fighting-types in the tier. No Guard DynamicPunch is literally its only niche, and not a very good one at that. I don't think it's deserving of an RU analysis, but we'll leave that to QC.
  9. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    No Guard DynaPunch is a potent niche though. I often find that it allows Machkoe to extend 2HKOes to OHKOes, and tear offense to bits if I get lucky with confusion (which is, at 50-50, a pretty good chance). Machoke is really bulky, has reliable recovery with RestTalk, and is a great status absorber. He's mush better at it than Gurrdurr and Hariyama, as he doesn't need to be picky about which status he can take (Toxic, for example).

    He's great on bulky offense teams that need Bug, Dark and Rock resistances, stuff like Moltres and Sharpedo have cool defensive synergy.

    Ideally, I'd like to remove the Band and Bulk Up sets (even from OO) and have only the single set, as it's the only thing Machoke should be doing.

    He needs RestTalk, otherwise Dusknoir and Cofagrigus wall him endlessly, and can burn him. A Guts set has no recovery without RestTalk, and no room for Bulk Up, which leaves it outclassed by Gurrdurr.

    Machoke's draws are DynaPunch, the bulk, the instant recovery and status absorption, plus Ice Punch for Gligar (which separates it from Gurrdurr). This set is, in my opinion, both unique and useful enough to warrant an analysis.

    EDIT: Right, Poison-types. Thanks Upstart. I've updated and bulked up the skeleton.
  10. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    I'm sorry but I honestly don't think No Guard DynamicPunch is enough to warrant an analysis. Its Machoke's only advantage over every other Fighting-type, and if I wanted a RestTalk Fighting-type I'd rather pick one with phazing such as Throh and Poliwrath.

    QC REJECTED 1/3
  11. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Understandable. Thanks Zdrup. How many does this need to be scrapped?
  12. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    3 but I know other qc members are still thinking about this so you still have chances
  13. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    I'm agreeing with zdrup, there's next to no reason to use this over Gurdurr.

    QC REJECTED 2/3
  14. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Machoke has a UU analysis. For the sake of consistency that needs to be taken down if this is rejected (in fact, it probably needs to be taken down anyway). Seems really odd though.
  15. Honko

    Honko
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    Being rejected in RU doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't have a UU analysis; Lapras, Klinklang, and Carracosta all have OU analyses even though they've been rejected for UU. Machoke probably should be removed, especially since Machamp is in UU, but that's something for the UU team to figure out.

    And sorry NoBlue but I'm rejecting this as well. It's just too vulnerable to residual damage and doesn't have enough to offer over Poliwrath and Hariyama as a bulky Fighting-type.

    QC REJECTED 3/3
  16. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Okay, thanks for the quick replies guys.

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