Maybe it's the right team

[Braseg257]

Hey Smogon, this is my 3rd RMT for 2012 VGC, I have only a month to build this team on my DS, and i think this is my last team before the tournament. Now, I'm playing on PO, and I'm in a rank of 1000 points, but when I started using this team i was around 800, so it's working very well.

The Team is this

AT A GLANCE

IN DETAILS

Ninetales (F) @ Iron Ball
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Heat Wave
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Solarbeam

This is my sun inducer, I won all the weather battles with quiet nature + iron ball, and i can also attack first under TR.
evs to maximize bulk and sp attack, hitting hard with sun-boosted Heat Waves and other enemies with Solarbeam. Will-O-Wisp is to cripple phisical attackers such as Garchomp. I'm thinking to use Sunny Day or Shadow Ball over this. Not so much to explain, an obvious member for each sun team, and I saw that many people say sun is the worst weather, but i don't think so, and this team has given me lot of reasons to think this.

Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Solarbeam
- Protect
- Sludge Bomb

My main special sweeper. In the sun this becomes a beast. Fast and Powerful Solarbeams are dangerous for so much pokes, and Sludge bomb and Hp ice provide great coverage. Hp ice over hp Fire because I don't need things to hit Scizor and Ferrothorn with this team, and with hp ice I can outspeed pokemon such as Garchomp and Salamence and OHKO them. Sludgebomb is another good STAB that allows me to OHKO Ludicolo, that comes usually with Politoed: I win the Weather war and then i can kill both of them.

Hitmontop (M) @ Fight Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combact
- Sucker Punch
- Wide guard
- Fake Out

This one is my Fake out user. I choose him over others because I found a good combo with CC + Sucker Punch. Fight gem is to boost Close Combact, it is not common so I've a good surprise factor. Sucker punch is good for Latios and Chandelure that are immune to Fire. Wide Guard protects agains Rock Slides, Earthquakes and co, being very useful for ninetales, Blaziken and Volcarona. The Evs are to outspeed other Hitmontops with no investment in Speed, and Fake Out them first; the rest is for bulk and Attack.

Blaziken (M) @ Rock Gem
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sky Uppercut
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Protect

In VGC, this is allowed, wow, great thing! I want to battle in VGC with my favourite Pokemon, and I choose sun to help this chicken when it sweeps. It seems weak in doubles, but is very underrated. Flare Blitz in the sun is very very good, and Speed boost allows him to outspeed everything in the game. Sky uppercut over Hi Jump Kick for the presence of protect. Rock Slide is a good coverage move, my answer to Chandelure, and Rock Gem makes it very dangerous. It happened that I was just with him against 4 pokes, and I won thanks to Rock Slide. With Speed Boost I've chosen Adamant over Jolly for more power, and maybe i'll tri HJK.

Thundurus (M) @ Charti Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Protect
- Thunder wave
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt

Thundurus and Hitmontop are my leads against trick room teams, using fake out and taunt together. Prankter Taunt and T-Wave are great, and allow me to avoid certain pokes that can outspeed my team. I'm thinking to try Hp ice over it, tough. The modest nature over the timid since Taunt and T-Wave are at +1 with prankster and I need power on Thunderbolt. This one is the member of the team I use rarely, isnce I use it only when I see a Trick Room team on the preview, or if I see Gyarados or Suicune.

Volcarona (M) @ Absorb Bulb
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

My second Special Sweeper. I chase this because I need someone with a
powerful heat wave, and this is fast too. It's useful also against Cresselia and Lati@s, which can threaten my team, since I don't have so much that can hit Cresselia, and I can 2HKO Latios only with Sucker Punch or Hp ice. I've tried absorb bulb just for water-type attacks, but i'm going to find another item, maybe the charti berry to survive a rock slide and looking for another item for Thundurus, Leftovers I think. HP Ground is mainly for two pokes: Heatran and Chandelure, that can wall Volcarona and also if i have two fighting-types in this team Heatran is still an issue, while Chandelure is my bigger threat.

So, this is my team at the moment, if there are some big changes to do I need to know what to do now, or it will be too late. I want to msee your opinion about this squad. IMO they work well together, expecially under the sun light, and I'm very proud of them when i defeat a Rain team with only Ninetales and Venusaur.
I hope I'll do a better performance at VGC than the last year, when I lost in the second round, but now I want to fight with this team and see what i can do, I swear so much in Blaziken, is the reason of this team, and i want to win the nationals with him.
Now, please, rate and comment!!!! :D

CHANGES CONSIDERED:
-HP ICE OVER THUNDER WAVE ON THUNUDURUS
-SUNNYDAY / SHADOW BALL OVER WILL-O-WISP ON NINETALES
-CHARTI BERRY OVER A. BULB ON VOLCARONA AND LEFTIES FOR THUNDURUS

 

[voodoo pimp]

//MODS PLEASE DON'T LOCK THIS, I'LL ADD DESCRIPTIONS AND IMAGES LATER//

Next time, you should probably just wait until you have the whole thing completed before you post it.

Ninetales and Venusaur: I would not recommend SolarBeam. Your opponent switches in an Abomasnow/Tyranitar/Politoed (which they certainly will once they realize you're using it) and suddenly you're locked into a 2-turn 60 power move.

Hitmontop: Standard, nothing to complain about.

Blaziken: Having used it on my Infernape, I can say that Rock Slide is not a great source of damage, so a Rock Gem probably isn't a very good investment. Since Blaziken is significantly more powerful than Venusaur, I would actually recommend moving the Life Orb here instead. If not, then a Fire Gem is probably a better option.

Thundurus: Keep in mind that many TR users, particularly Cresselia, will be holding a Mental Herb, and Protecting on turn 1 makes Fake Out useless, so you can't rely too much on that strategy to beat TR. It could also really use a coverage move.

Volcarona: The main reason to use HP Ground is Heatran, and with two Fighting-types on your team you shouldn't be too concerned about it. I'd actually recommend Psychic, since it gives good neutral coverage and you don't really have anything to deal with opposing Fighting-types. I'd also suggest a Focus Sash over the Absorb Bulb - many Water-types won't bother using their STAB on it if sun is up, it risks getting KO'd by them if the sun isn't up, and Rock attacks will of course ruin its day regardless.

 

[Drifblim]

Venusaur REALLY needs Sleep Powder, it's just an amazing move coming off so fast from them. The accuracy isn't that bad, you should be getting hits when they are most important. Life orb is not the best Item, you could have Sitrus or Leftovers, or Occa for opposing Fire moves. In which case a bulkier set would be favourable.

I have yet to see Rock Gem Blaziken in action, but it seems like a good idea. Without the Rock Gem, a few notable things would live Rock Slide, it's sort of useless without the gem. I think Brick Break is your Fighting type move of choice. Sky Uppercut has noticeably shaky accuracy, and HJK is likely going to be Protected if they are weak to Fighting type moves. The recoil will certainly be large, in that case.

Thundurus should have at least another offensive move if it is going to use that EV set, possibly Focus Blast for the ever present weakness to Rock?

 

[Braseg257]

ok guys, thank you for the rate

@vodoo pimp
sorry if i wrote descriptions later, but i've issues with hte computer and i could write those just today.
About the rate: maybe i'll try Energy Ball over Solarbeam on Ninetales, but I really need a strong attack like Solarbeam on venusaur. I know that sometimes I risk, but when it happens I usually switch and protect and then bring Ninetales on the field, and usually this strategy is good.
I've tried Fire gem on Blaziken over Rock gem and also life orb, but the first is not very good, since it doesn't allow me to OHKO somethink I can't OHKO with Flarte Blitz, while the recoil of Life Orb plus the recoil of Flare Blitz is dangerous, so i opted for Rock Gem to OHKO Chandelure with Rock Slide.
On thundurus, you're right, i agree with you and I'll try hp ice over thunder wave. Often when I see a TR team and i use this strategy i avoid the trick room on the first / second turn, since thundurus is alive. I've got lot of issues whit Trick Room, and often my only chance to win is to wait the 5 turns if I don't stop the TR before.
Also if it may seems strange, Heatran is a big problem for me, and Hp ground is also for Chandelure. I'll surely try another item, tough, since Absorb Bulb is not good on volcarona.

@Drifblim
I would like to use Sleep Powder, but i don't know where I can put it. All the attacks of Venusaur are important in this team, maybe i'll try hypnosis on Ninetales to put the opponent to sleep, because i don't now what replace Sleep Powder for.

 

[PokeMaster366]

Over half of your team gets hit hard by Rest/TR Cresselia, and since they tend to have Chesto Berries and Mental Herbs, Sleep Powder Venusaur and Thundurus won't be too useful against it. You might want to get a solid TR counter or add someone that works well under TR.

 

[Braseg257]

are you sure? cresselia is 2HKOed by bug buzz, and Heat wave does about 22%, so i usually beat Cresselia with Volcarona. The problem is uder TR... what do you suggest to try that works well under TR?

 

[Drifblim]

ok guys, thank you for the rate

@vodoo pimp
sorry if i wrote descriptions later, but i've issues with hte computer and i could write those just today.
About the rate: maybe i'll try Energy Ball over Solarbeam on Ninetales, but I really need a strong attack like Solarbeam on venusaur. I know that sometimes I risk, but when it happens I usually switch and protect and then bring Ninetales on the field, and usually this strategy is good.
I've tried Fire gem on Blaziken over Rock gem and also life orb, but the first is not very good, since it doesn't allow me to OHKO somethink I can't OHKO with Flarte Blitz, while the recoil of Life Orb plus the recoil of Flare Blitz is dangerous, so i opted for Rock Gem to OHKO Chandelure with Rock Slide.
On thundurus, you're right, i agree with you and I'll try hp ice over thunder wave. Often when I see a TR team and i use this strategy i avoid the trick room on the first / second turn, since thundurus is alive. I've got lot of issues whit Trick Room, and often my only chance to win is to wait the 5 turns if I don't stop the TR before.
Also if it may seems strange, Heatran is a big problem for me, and Hp ground is also for Chandelure. I'll surely try another item, tough, since Absorb Bulb is not good on volcarona.

@Drifblim
I would like to use Sleep Powder, but i don't know where I can put it. All the attacks of Venusaur are important in this team, maybe i'll try hypnosis on Ninetales to put the opponent to sleep, because i don't now what replace Sleep Powder for.

I dont know what reason there is for Sludge Bomb, it has terrible coverage. Ninetales with Iron Ball is too slow and not bulky enough to fire off sleep well

 

[Braseg257]

I dont know what reason there is for Sludge Bomb, it has terrible coverage. Ninetales with Iron Ball is too slow and not bulky enough to fire off sleep well

mainly is for Ludicolo and for a STAB attack without the sun, and it's the only way to touch Chandelure, but I can try Sleep Powder
EDIT: what do you suggest as a counter for trick room abusers, expecially chandelure, that can reverse trcik room?

 

[Drifblim]

mainly is for Ludicolo and for a STAB attack without the sun, and it's the only way to touch Chandelure, but I can try Sleep Powder
EDIT: what do you suggest as a counter for trick room abusers, expecially chandelure, that can reverse trcik room?

It only hits Ludicolo for real damage in the sun. Even if you wanted a non-Sun move, other things would b favorable. Chandelure is somewhat uncommon to actually set up TR for a slow team, they primarily reverse it on actual TR teams. Blaziken counters Chandelure pretty well, 2 Rock Slides regardless of Gem will KO a Chandy.

 

[Braseg257]

It only hits Ludicolo for real damage in the sun. Even if you wanted a non-Sun move, other things would b favorable. Chandelure is somewhat uncommon to actually set up TR for a slow team, they primarily reverse it on actual TR teams. Blaziken counters Chandelure pretty well, 2 Rock Slides regardless of Gem will KO a Chandy.

yes, but I don't know how to beat chandelure under TR, when it is out of TR is not an issue

 

[voodoo pimp]

Volcarona can 2HKO Chandelure, so outside of TR that shouldn't be too big of an issue.

I think you're going to have a lot of trouble with TR in general, though, not just Chandelure. Except for Ninetales and Hitmontop, your whole team is fast and not particularly bulky.

 

[Braseg257]

outside of TR there are no problems, but I don't know how to beat TR teams without change the team too much

 

[Saboros]

Yeah solarbeam is really unreliable and sludge bomb is literally the worst type out there, lol. I'd suggest replacing Solarbeam with Giga Drain and Sludgebomb with Sleep Powder. Also Blaziken won't be able to tank many hits and Rock Gem Rock Slide isn't a very good way to rack up damage, so I'd suggest a Sash.

 

[voodoo pimp]

Chlorophyll Venusaur can't get Giga Drain, it's a egg move/4th gen TM. So Energy Ball is the best option.

 

[Drifblim]

yes, but I don't know how to beat chandelure under TR, when it is out of TR is not an issue

Chandelure cannot OHKO Blaziken except with Psychic, Hitmontop can 2HKO it with Sucker Punch. If a slow Chandy has TR up, just make it top priority to kill. As someone said, Sash could be a better item for Blaziken, Rock Gem I have realized doesn't nab you any extra important KO's

 

[Braseg257]

chandelure can OHKO Blaziken with Shadow ball too, rock slide without the gem is too weak, as i can just 2HKO Zapdos or thundurus, while with the gem I can OHKO them with a bit of residual damage. I'll try Sleep Powder over Sludge Bomb, but i need the power of solar bem.

 

[Saboros]

I'll try Sleep Powder over Sludge Bomb, but i need the power of solar bem.

If your forced to use a move as unreliable as solarbeam for good power, I'd suggest running something instead of Venasaur maybe a charizard would do you good.

 

[firephoenix1219]

im going to agree w/ every one that said rock slide is not the best of choices. i get that this for double battles, but i would replace rock slide with stone edge. Although its only a personal choice, would you rather kill one pokemon and take some damage from the other, or not kill either, and take combined lethal damage. and go with the payapa berry instead of the rock gem (weakens psychic attacks)

and also, someone said that chlorophyll venasaur cant learn giga drain, it actually can, just get a female, and breed it with maybe serperior or torterra and try until you have a chlorophyll bulbasaur w/giga drain

 

[Braseg257]

mmm payapa berry seems interesting, i'll try it

 

[voodoo pimp]

and also, someone said that chlorophyll venasaur cant learn giga drain, it actually can, just get a female, and breed it with maybe serperior or torterra and try until you have a chlorophyll bulbasaur w/giga drain

There are no legitimate female DW starters, so none of them can legally have egg moves.

 

[Saboros]

im going to agree w/ every one that said rock slide is not the best of choices. i get that this for double battles, but i would replace rock slide with stone edge. Although its only a personal choice, would you rather kill one pokemon and take some damage from the other, or not kill either, and take combined lethal damage. and go with the payapa berry instead of the rock gem (weakens psychic attacks)

and also, someone said that chlorophyll venasaur cant learn giga drain, it actually can, just get a female, and breed it with maybe serperior or torterra and try until you have a chlorophyll bulbasaur w/giga drain

Weakening psychic type attacks isn't very effective because there isnt that huge of a presence of psychic type moves in VGC.

 

[Kiyo]

just a thought: hippowdon with 0 spe IV and Brave Nature will always get sand up over sun. its min speed at level 50 is 46 while ninetales with iron ball is 47

it may not be as common as ttar but its still a factor

 

[PokeMaster366]

just a thought: hippowdon with 0 spe IV and Brave Nature will always get sand up over sun. its min speed at level 50 is 46 while ninetales with iron ball is 47

it may not be as common as ttar but its still a factor

In all honesty, I'm curious about why more people aren't using Hippowdon over TTar. Could it be because TTar has higher defenses? A Rock and Dark STAB? I don't know the big reason behind it, but Hippowdon just seems better than TTar. The only weather starter with a reliable recovery move; the lack of a Fighting, Ground, Bug, and Bullet/Mach Punch weakness; more viability as a TR pokemon; these are all great advantages to have. The Ice weakness is a pain, but Abomasnow is the only popular Ice type it needs to watch out for since Weavile can't really put any dents in it huge enough to 2HKO Sitrus Berry variants w/o an Expert Belt, and even then, there's his partners to worry about and his recovery move if he uses it. There's also the truth that most popular VGC pokemon with Ice moves are Water types more willing to use their STABs to kill the bulky hippo.

Long story short: Unless you really need to wall special attacks or need the speed of the Scarf set, TTar is generally outclassed by Hippowdon.

 

[voodoo pimp]

That isn't really relevant to the team here, you should probably take it to the VGC SQSA thread if you want to discuss it.

 

[PokeMaster366]

That isn't really relevant to the team here, you should probably take it to the VGC SQSA thread if you want to discuss it.

Thank you for the information.