Metagame Mega Evolution in Sun & Moon

[Toshiro46]

I don't think that Mega Sceptile will do even a bit of impact in the meta, but it can do some things that are cool:

Calcs Here
Plus, I think it will be a pain for rain teams too

Man, it sucks that Sceptile has 145 Speed (and not like 150), because in this meta that means its basically forced to run Naive to outspeed Koko and A-Gren. If it could run Modest, a lot of those calcs wouldn't have to depend on SR to guarantee the KO. Of course, even with 150 speed it'd only get to 399 without a boosting nature, which means it'd still speed tie with A-Gren... man, Phero's speed tier is just so fucking good.

What really hurts M-Sceptile besides M-Metagross is that teams are obligated to carry at least one HP Ice and/or one ice coverage move to deal with Lando-T and the other 4x weaknesses to it. Oh, and its weakness to all the u turns in the tier right now, which means it's harder to switch it in against certain pokes.

As for Rain teams, they also tend to carry ice type moves, which of course means they have a way to deal with Sceptile (Specs Kingdra in Rain destroys it with Ice Beam).

 

[OldAmberPlays]

Not important enough, though, but with the Mega Speed buff and overall priority nerfs it may be slightly better than in ORAS... but possibly more outclassed seeing as the Mega slot is preferably used on a certain Steel-type Pokemon...

Mega Metagross will only "drop" in usage when things like Mega Diancie, Mega Loppuny and Mega Medicham come alive again

Oh, and its weakness to all the u turns in the tier right now, which means it's harder to switch it in against certain pokes.

As far as I know, the only REALLY viable U-Turn users right now in OU are Tapu Koko (loses in 1x1), Greninja (does I need to say anything about it? lol), Landorus-T and Mega Scizor

252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Landorus-Therian: 270-318 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Scizor-Mega: 252-300 (73.4 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

with some prior damage, both can drop to Mega Sceptile

 

[Vengeance417]

Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 96 Atk / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earthquake

Max speed probably isn't all that necessary as there really aren't many relevant things it outpaces with 252 speed other than shit like +1 Jolly Dragonite and Scarf Hoopa-U/Heatran, all of which are practically nonexistent.

The speed EVs are for neutral-natured Pheromosa (depending on whether or not it gets banned after the suspect. If it does, you can run 152 speed for Ash-Greninja) and the rest goes to Attack which helps Sceptile guarantee the OHKO on standard Heatran with Earthquake.

96 Atk Mega Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 324-384 (100.3 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also, any new offensive checks to Ash-Greninja thanks to a nifty 4x Water Shuriken resistance are welcome.

 

[OldAmberPlays]

The speed EVs are for neutral-natured Pheromosa (depending on whether or not it gets banned after the suspect. If it does, you can run 152 speed for Ash-Greninja) and the rest goes to Attack which helps Sceptile guarantee the OHKO on standard Heatran with Earthquake.

Also, any new offensive checks to Ash-Greninja thanks to a nifty 4x Water Shuriken resistance are welcome.

I agree with the Speed EV for the possibility of Pheromosa staying in OU, but isn't good think in the future, in the releases of Manectinite and Loppunite? With 406 in Speed, Mega Sceptile can outspeed all those threads and go for a OHKO

Also, since you talked about Ash-Greninja, I think that Hasty nature shoud be better.

 

[Vengeance417]

I agree with the Speed EV for the possibility of Pheromosa staying in OU, but isn't good think in the future, in the releases of Manectinite and Loppunite? With 406 in Speed, Mega Sceptile can outspeed all those threads and go for a OHKO

Also, since you talked about Ash-Greninja, I think that Hasty nature shoud be better.

Well, there's no point to use that spread atm since neither are released and don't even have current release dates, either. You could revert the spread to accommodate them when they release, but until then there's no reason to run that speed.

And the nature was already Hasty.

 

[Toshiro46]

As far as I know, the only REALLY viable U-Turn users right now in OU are Tapu Koko (loses in 1x1), Greninja (does I need to say anything about it? lol), Landorus-T and Mega Scizor

I wasn't saying that it doesn't beat them 1v1, what I'm saying is that it won't be able to switch in as much as it'd like to on certain pokes for fear of taking a SE u turn hit.

It also sucks that its only access to special stat boosting is lightning rod, which is otherwise not that great since it already sports a 4x electric resistance in the first place. I don't understand why they'd give it swords dance and hone claws but not nasty plot...

Edit: Like, maybe it could run an SD set with Leaf Blade and Dragon Claw/Outrage and Leaf Storm as a one time nuke (a la Garchomps carrying draco meteor)... but 110 Attack isn't really even close to being good enough to justifying that, really.

 

[Jojobobo]

I think the big issue with Lightning Rod is that most electric types will have ice coverage in the form of HP Ice or Ice Beam where possible, so all it takes is accurate prediction by the opponent and instead of Sceptile getting a boost it gets a huge chunk out of its health - not a reliable gambit to make by any stretch. In fact Sceptile has probably been hurt by the paralysis nerf this gen too, as now there are far fewer TWaves about which were the most reliable way to score a boost.

 

[Toshiro46]

Lightning Rod just isn't really that great of an ability, especially due to its 4x resistance. Something like Contrary would make M-Sceptile a force to be reckoned with, but that's neither here nor there.

The meta just isn't really kind to it, though. The presence of so many steels and fairies in the meta means M-Sceptile's STAB combo isn't great, and the introduction of Kartana and Bulu means that teams are a bit more prepared for hard hitting grass-type attacks this gen. Of course, there's the omnipresence of ice type attacks due to Lando's omnipresence (and the rise of Zygarde as well), and perhaps even more important there's the increased regularity of 100+ scarfers to combat Volcarona and co. Notably, Nihilego OHKOes it with either sludge wave or HP ice, Gengar does the same with sludge wave, and even Keldeo has a good chance to KO it with Icy Wind.

 

[Gary]

I wouldn't say Sceptile is going to be in that bad of a place. A lot of the fairies currently being used in the meta are nuked by Leaf Storm, and stuff like Kartana dies to coverage anyway because it's so god damn frail. Clefable's lower usage is also great for it, because that's one less Pokemon that can tank its moves (also most Clefs are running more phys def for Zygarde anyway). Most of the Steel-types lose to coverage as well, the only major problem child being Celesteela. Its Speed tier is also really solid, being able to outspeed almost the entire offensive portion of the meta bar a few like Mega Alakazam and Mosa (that's getting banned most likely), so it will be a solid check to Koko, Greninja, and Ash Greninja (resisting Shuriken is great too). It also punishes Zygarde locked into Thousand Arrows, and Bulu's Grassy Terrain so that Pokemon can't even reliably switch into it. The best set for it IMO is probably Leaf Storm / Dragon Pulse / HP Fire / EQ.

I'd say the major issue is going to be the omnipresence of fat Grasses if anything. Ferro isn't too much of an issue considering how it's taking a ton from HP Fire, but AV Growth and Amoonguss wall it to hell. It doesn't really have anything to touch them. Mega Metagross has to be wary of switching into it, as it takes a decent amount from coverage and Leaf Storm, but that also pressures it quite a lot as well. Same goes for Mawile but to a lesser extent.

I'd say Mega Sceptile wont be top tier or anything, but definitely have a solid niche at running through offensive teams considering that if you look at most of them, they'd be relying a lot on their Scarfer, priority, or something like Metagross to hard check it. It definitely seems a lot more viable than last gen, at least for now.

 

[Ema Skye]

Swampertite is coming too.

The ability buff really helps it out. It's definitely better, especially with how cool Pelipper is at rain setting.

Not sure if it's a better rain sweeper than Kingdra though.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I mean the good thing about Mega Swampert in comparison to Kingdra is the larger bulk. Mega Swampert can take most attacks decently that aren't Grass type. This means it could sweep longer and the damage difference isn't that much. It's 95 to 150. It's not quite as much as Choice Specs Kingdra but due to the added bulk it's an alternate. Don't know exactly what it would outspeed in the rain though. I think it only just loses to Choice Scarf Gengar.

 

[pika pal]

One point in Swampert's favor for Rain, with Koko running around a flat out Electric immunity, not to mention neutrality to Dazzling Gleam Coverage, definitely is more valuable than last gen where it had to compete with Kabutops, much less Kingdra for a rain spot. Ice Punch also gives Adamant a decent chance to 2HKO Assault Vest Tangrowth after Rocks, and Adamant (478 under rain) still manages to outrun +Speed Pheromosa before a Beast Boost. Superpower/Low Kick is also still an option to lure Ferrothorn.

I think the big advantage to Swampert is the combination of bulk and flexibility. It doesn't hit as hard, but can manage plenty of relevant hits without having to Choice lock itself as Kingdra tends to, which is helpful for Rain to keep its momentum up against the offensive teams it usually likes to face. Can also make for a good late game cleaner after Kingdra punches some holes. That said, it doesn't quite help with the Ash-Greninja Weakness, taking 66-80% from Battle Bond Water Shuriken. It's also a little iffy against Celesteela, who is 2HKOed by Rain Waterfall but can shrug off most things besides Low Kick (Superpower drops lose the significance in damage) and throw Leech Seeds/Protect to stall out the Rain.

 

[Seth Vilo]

OH my gosh I'm so excited. Sceptile was one of my favorite niche picks in ORAS, and the Mega Speed change is a huge help in stopping things like Ash-Gren. I'm already starting to teambuild and can't wait until ~May when this is released in all its glory.

Immediately thinking about it, who like FWG cores?? How about DFS cores?? HOW ABOUT BOTH AT ONCE?!? M-Sceptile + Tapu Fini + Heatran. You have decent meta-walls in Fini and Tran, hazard setting with Tran, hazard removal with Fini, and wall whittling with Trans Taunt+Toxic and Fini's NMadness. Fini and Scep also have really fun synergy, with Fini stopping Ice and Dragon attacks, and Scep coming in on Grass and Electric. Tran stops the Poison weakness of those two, as well as smacking (some) Grasses they have trouble with otherwise.

As always I can't decide on the all-out-attacker or Sub set. Sub has let me nab a few cheesy wins before, but the power of AOA is nice. Giga Drain from Max SpA Timid Scep manages to barely squeeze the 2HKO on 248 HP / 16 SpD Calm Fini, while Leaf Storm has a 75% to OHKO without Rocks. Fini can do between 80-95% back with Moonblast. With that math, AOA might be generally preferred just for that matchup, and for general breaking to pave the way for some other sweeper.

Now to the drawing boards as I figure out the last 3 members of the team.... XD

 

[adracman]

Stop the presses:
https://twitter.com/SerebiiNet/status/850213346271834112
Gamefreak snuck Medichamite into the universal Mawilite and Beedrillite release!
Audinite too, but I'm not sure a tier in which that's relevant has been released yet.

 

[OldAmberPlays]

Mega Medicham will me pretty decent, and I think it adds some dispute for the Mega slot with Mega Metagross (in the end of ORAS, MegaMedi was A+ and Metagross was A- rank). Now i'm just missing Mega Diancie, Mega Loppuny, Mega Altaria and Mega Heracross.

 

[pika pal]

I do think releasing Megas like Medicham will affect Metagross as, while not directly competing for his role, other viable candidates for the Mega Slot in the metagame do impact his opportunity cost to some degree.

That said, Mega Medicham definitely has a lot going for it against SuMo OU right now. Against the defensive builds it excels fighting, it continues to be absolute murder on typical cores, doubly so since Toxapex is the go-to Bulky Water and gets murdered by Zen Headbutt, which gives Medicham a bit more flexibility with coverage (if it wasn't Double Priority, I noticed it tended to be Thunder Punch). Ice Punch gives it a way to break Lando-T and Zygarde, two fairly prominent threats in the metagame right now, and it doesn't need coverage to crack Celesteela in half, which is a boon given its status as a Blanket Check. Also takes a decent chunk out of things like AV Tangrowth, and its STABs can even chunk decently bulky resist, HJK dealing around 40% to Defensive Tapu Fini for a benchmark. Tapu Lele can make it a very good partner for Psychic Spam, protecting it from priority and letting it spam Zen Headbutts only slightly weaker than HJK and with much less risk, a big deal since there are 3 notable Ghost types and Celesteela likes to run Protect. The overall slower nature of the game is nice since it makes it safer to run Adamant.

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 376-444 (94.4 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 319-376 (78.9 - 93%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

On the other hand, both Greninjas are running around to provide Fast checks, it still hates Mega Sableye on Stall teams, Dugtrio gives it Stall headaches, and Gengar being so good means that even offensive teams can potentially have a switch into HJK. Medicham remains a high-risk/high-reward Pokemon overall, but I think that the rewards it can reap and the new options to mitigate those risks mean it'll do fine for itself. Its absurd power punishes teams that depend on typical Blanket checks as their switch-ins, and the mega speed buff does it a couple favors to reduce reliance on Fake Out to Mega Evolve (something Lopunny will also probably appreciate down the line).

 

[6ft Torbjorn]

Let's just hope MegaCham isn't used as a scapegoat to ban Mega Sableye again...

But yeah the release of Mega Medicham seems really cool, and is starting to reveal a curious pattern of how GF is releasing Mega stones. All the battle discussion would just have me regurgitate what's already been said though... except for maybe running Drain Punch > HJK, as you gain a small bit of sustain on top of those 85/85 defenses (which isn't terrible for an offensive mon).

 

[Funbot28]

I also want to point out that the mega evolution buff also helped out Mega Medicham a bit, since it no longer requires to run Fake Out to gain the extra speed safety (although it's still nice for priority damage). This is huge as it basically allows Mega Medi to legit 2HKO almost every mon in the meta thanks to it now being able run Zen Headbutt alongside HJK and the elemental punches. The introduction of Alolan Marowak and Mega Sableye once more does hinder it a bit, but still Mega Medi will potentially be a top tier threat this generation. I'm scared.

 

[bludz]

Ughhh

Prepare to see TPunch Medi + Tapu Koko a lot. Literally gives you a chance to 2HKO Bold Clefable, does a shitton to Mega Sableye (they will need Def EVs more than before, hello Spikes Greninja) and even breaks Mega Slowbro.

This mon is buffed by Terrains and was already nearly unwallable in ORAS. Lots of people are probably salty about this release

 

[Leo]

Medicham's about the shake the tier up and Metagross might actually see some drop in usage cause this thing is a true monster. Meta is probs still better due to its immense bulk and good typing but being near unwallable gives Medi a huge boon. And yeah Koko Medi is dumb

 

[Halcyon.]

Edited the OP but I'm not happy about it. Fuck Medicham in SM.

 

[Morningstar]

So everyone gets Medicham and Audino's megas huh? I wonder if Audino-M has a niche in Doubles (Smogon or otherwise)?

Also? Do you think this giving two extra mega stones with the Tournament ones will be a common trend?

 

[Toshiro46]

Coming from someone unfamiliar with ORAS OU, what about Mega Medicham is making everyone go "ugh" when Mega Mawile was just released and actually melded into the meta fairly well?

Wait... This mon only has three weaknesses, two of which are pretty uncommon coverage moves and one of which is only seen on a set number of pokes (not much has access to dazzling gleam/moonblast/play rough), and it has enough bulk to survive pretty much any unresisted hits (besides shit like STAB CharY Flamethrower but Chansey is the only non resist easily surviving that) and enough speed to get past any mons not going for speed.

welp... time to start running Lele more often... oh wait Lele 4x resists fighting and still takes up to 50% from HJK. Jesus fuck I see it now. The other 4x fighting resists are Mega Beedrill (lol @ 40 def), scolipede (runs protect so that could be nice ig, but Zen Headbutt takes it out), and Mega Pinsir (OHKOed by elemental punches but "only" takes 1/3 of its health from HJK and outspeeds, KOs with Return).

This is scary.

 

[Halcyon.]

Coming from someone unfamiliar with ORAS OU, what about Mega Medicham is making everyone go "ugh" when Mega Mawile was just released and actually melded into the meta fairly well?

Wait... This mon only has three weaknesses, two of which are pretty uncommon coverage moves and one of which is only seen on a set number of pokes (not much has access to dazzling gleam/moonblast/play rough), and it has enough bulk to survive pretty much any unresisted hits (besides shit like STAB CharY Flamethrower but Chansey is the only non resist easily surviving that) and enough speed to get past any mons not going for speed.

welp... time to start running Lele more often... oh wait Lele 4x resists fighting and still takes up to 50% from HJK. Jesus fuck I see it now. The other 4x fighting resists are Mega Beedrill (lol @ 40 def), scolipede (runs protect so that could be nice ig, but Zen Headbutt takes it out), and Mega Pinsir (OHKOed by elemental punches but "only" takes 1/3 of its health from HJK and outspeeds, KOs with Return).

This is scary.

I think the main reason is that its yet ANOTHER new mon to add to the "unwallable threats" list. It also benefits from the auto speed boost because Fake Out isn't mandatory now, but it also CAN run Fake Out + Bullet Punch because that's like a guaranteed 50%+ on any pokemon on offense. BUt if you'd rather you can run something like HJK, Zen, Ice Punch, Tpunch for coverage or BP for momentum. You can also run it with just about every Tapu to great effect. Fini prevents status and shits on m-sab, the only counter. Lele powers up Zen and also shits on Sab. Koko powers up Tpunch and also provides easy momentum with U-turn/Volt Switch. Bulu is another physical breaker and can give it recovery with Grassy Terrain but this is definitely the least useful partner of the 4.

So yeah, ugh.

 

[Colonel M]

I didn't even have to play ORAS to look at this Pokemon and go "disgusting" in the back of my head. Like bludz said expect Koko Mega Medi to get popular real fast, and probably Lele + Medi too. I probably would still always run Fake Out on Mega Medicham, but I think the only difference from ORAS to now is double priority seems a little clunkier to run right now. Still good for what it's worth, but I would be content with Fake Out / HJK / Thunder Punch / Ice Punch or ZH. Bullet Punch definitely remains viable too.

The worst part is Slowbro is having a hell of a hard time existing, so if anything it might be even worse to face than in ORAS.

Also rofl @ Drain Punch mention. Get out of here.