Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread!

[Heysup]

tbh i think before we start testing stuff just because the meta is stagnant af rn, we should revisit some of the more controversial bans. i mean lets face it neither goth nor diggy is largely responsible for stalls lack of viability, its because the idiosyncrasies of stall in lc make it really dependent on eviolite and with the knock off buff this gen stalls never gonns be as good as offense unless its unbelievably well built(read: kaleidoscope). also diggy and goth literally suck all of your momentum away lol they have absolutely massive opportunity cost and are really inconsistent at beating anything not named stall.
tl;dr: lets retest something like tite before we start testing shit out of boredom, goth and diggy are nowhere near broken.

1) Replacing one bad idea (suspecting something not broken) with another one (retesting a recently banned mon) is not necessarily an improvement......I feel like we've had this discussion before so.....please don't start it again.
2) I don't get why people are saying stall is not viable. I am notoriously NOT a stall player but I've actually built way more stallish teams in this meta than I ever have. It's not even that difficult to play around Knock Off and frankly many Pokemon do their jobs fine without Eviolite.


Unrelated, Geodude hype. Sucker Punch + high attack exchanged for Onix's Speed and Taunt. I kind of like it's ability to actually hurt things
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-204878967

 

[boo836]

If we're going to retest stuff let's do it for the reason that meta shifts might change how a mon may be viable. But please, include arguments that would suggest such things, not a bunch of bullshit.​

 

[Wobbyble]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...st-776-gothita-o.3505710/page-24#post-5780900

Unless in the past couple months the metagame changed as much as human civilization in the last 5,000 years, Gothita is not suspect worthy

 

[sam-testings]

Well, i was wondering, how viable are skill link mons like shellder and aipom holding kings rock?

 

[Anthiese]

Well, i was wondering, how viable are skill link mons like shellder and aipom holding kings rock?

Not at all. Eviolite serves better use for them sinc eit gets them both workable bulk.

I guess 41% flinch rate is cute but it's very reliant on hax which isnt 'good' usually.

 

[Wobbyble]

If you win off (ab)using King's Rock you develop multiple aneurysms and die, don't try it

 

[sam-testings]

If you win off (ab)using King's Rock you develop multiple aneurysms and die, don't try it

that sounds bad, won't try it =P

 

[boo836]

It's good in LCUU

 

[Yagura]

"It has been announced that the Johto Starters are to be distributed this year with their Hidden Abilities. From February 27th 2015 to November 30th 2015, if you access Pokémon Bank, you will receive Meganium, Typhlosion and Feraligatr with their Hidden Abilities of Leaf Guard, Flash Fire and Sheer Force respectively. These are distributed through the Pokémon Link feature nto Pokémon X, Y, Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire with a limit of 1 of each per Pokémon Bank"

So we're going to get Sheer Force Totodile, Flash Fire Cyndaquil, and Leaf Guard Chikorita. These released hidden abilities might seem to be useless at a first glance (well Chikorita is still useless just saying) but they can both help Totodile and to a lesser extent Cyndaquil raise notably in both viability and usage:

Sheer Force is a nice ability on Totodile that has been outclassed as a physical Water-type attacker by both Corphish and Tirtouga, however Totodile has a thing those two mons don't have which is a way to deal with pisky Grass-types in Ice Punch but now with Sheer Force being released on it it can fire off 104 BP STAB Waterfall which is weaker than Corphish' Crabhammer that is boosted by Adapatability but it can also use 97.5 BP Ice Punch to deal with Grass-types, here is the set that I think will be the most useful in the meta:

Totodile @ Eviolite / Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

Hits 14 in Speed and 18 in Attack with an Adamant nature, DD can be used as a late game cleaner and SD to break walls, Waterfall and Ice Punch are obvious and Superpower is for stuff like Ferroseed, some lame moves like Iron Tail can be used for Spritzee and there is also Rock Slide but Waterfall and Ice Punch combo is enough already to deal with most of the metagame, you just need something for Water-types and you're good to go.

Cyndaquil got Flash Fire which can be usable if you play well with like if you predict a Will-O-Wisp coming or a Fire-type attack then nuke stuff with Eruption.

Chikorita is still crap.

 

[Anthiese]

Oh lovely i cant wait to have dd totodile ruinning shit through.

Tbh Flash Fire wont change much for Cynda. Eruption still wants you to be fast and invincible and aiming to hit fire resists on the switch in isnt really helping you.

Also it's has balls for coverage. Fire STABS out the booty / ESense / Hidden Power (kek ivs) / MUD SLAP

Chika... i love you ingame. You have no place in the meta sadly. wishing Leaf Guard worked like Hydration so we could pretend that Sunny Day / Rest / STAB / filler worked as a killer set.

 

[sam-testings]

Cyndaquil @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Spa/ 36 Sp. Def. / 236spd
Modest
-eruption
-flamethrower/lava plume
-extrasensory
-some hidden power for coverage.

Basically, the typhlosion set in whatever tier Typhlosion is in. You just erupt your way to victory =).

 

[Rowan]

idk, i'd still rather use vulpix>cyndaquil, it's just more consistent with its power, I still think cyndaquil has like 0 niche.

Totodile, sadly also kinda sucks. There still really isn't any reason to use it over Corphish (knock off), Shellder, or even Binacle who hits much harder with a +2 Cross Chop than Totodile does with a +1 superpower.

+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Ice Punch vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 18-22 (72 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Totodile Superpower vs. 84 HP / 188 Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 16-20 (72.7 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Totodile Superpower vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 20-24 (76.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-16 (61.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 76 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 13-16 (52 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 12-15 (44.4 - 55.5%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO

these calcs just show how it really isn't that great, it still can't really break through grass types, and it struggles to sweep past any bulky mon, it even fails to 2HKO Spritzee! Sadly, Totodile is still a lowly D rank (at best) pokemon.

Chikorita is probably still better with Overgrow so it can hit a little bit harder with Giga Drain if it gets to that low health...


Unfortunately, none of these releases are that great :/

 

[JustAMan]

idk, i'd still rather use vulpix>cyndaquil, it's just more consistent with its power, I still think cyndaquil has like 0 niche.

Totodile, sadly also kinda sucks. There still really isn't any reason to use it over Corphish (knock off), Shellder, or even Binacle who hits much harder with a +2 Cross Chop than Totodile does with a +1 superpower.

+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Ice Punch vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 18-22 (72 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Totodile Superpower vs. 84 HP / 188 Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 16-20 (72.7 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Totodile Superpower vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 20-24 (76.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-16 (61.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 76 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 13-16 (52 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 12-15 (44.4 - 55.5%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO

these calcs just show how it really isn't that great, it still can't really break through grass types, and it struggles to sweep past any bulky mon, it even fails to 2HKO Spritzee! Sadly, Totodile is still a lowly D rank (at best) pokemon.

Chikorita is probably still better with Overgrow so it can hit a little bit harder with Giga Drain if it gets to that low health...


Unfortunately, none of these releases are that great :/

We can see some electavah syndrome here. Starters aren't that good anyways, and Corphish will give it quite a bit of competition ( Adaptability and Aqua Jet for example ).
Cyndaqil would still need support in the form of Defog, and watch out for priorities
Chikorita sucks period.

 

[Anthiese]

Cyndaquil @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Spa/ 36 Sp. Def. / 236spd
Modest
-eruption
-flamethrower/lava plume
-extrasensory
-some hidden power for coverage.

Basically, the typhlosion set in whatever tier Typhlosion is in. You just erupt your way to victory =).

if ur goin off of the nu set it's
-Eruption
-Fire Blast
-ESense
-HP Ground

but you lose speed bc LC so rip.

 

[sam-testings]

Basically, new toy syndrome here.

 

[JustAMan]

Might I suppose, however, that this is not the tread to discuss about this ( and sorry for participating ).
If I am not right, then go on

 

[Anthiese]

Might I suppose, however, that this is not the tread to discuss about this ( and sorry for participating ).
If I am not right, then go on

The thread is supposed to discuss all aspects of the metagame, we were discussing the possibility of a Goth suspect but we are allowed to deviate onto released abilities and moves for mons but i dont think the discussion on that will last simply because they were and still are going to be medicore at their jobs.

 

[fran17]

idk, i'd still rather use vulpix>cyndaquil, it's just more consistent with its power, I still think cyndaquil has like 0 niche.

Totodile, sadly also kinda sucks. There still really isn't any reason to use it over Corphish (knock off), Shellder, or even Binacle who hits much harder with a +2 Cross Chop than Totodile does with a +1 superpower.

+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Ice Punch vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 18-22 (72 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Totodile Superpower vs. 84 HP / 188 Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 16-20 (72.7 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Totodile Superpower vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 20-24 (76.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 13-16 (61.9 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 76 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 13-16 (52 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Sheer Force Totodile Waterfall vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 12-15 (44.4 - 55.5%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO

these calcs just show how it really isn't that great, it still can't really break through grass types, and it struggles to sweep past any bulky mon, it even fails to 2HKO Spritzee! Sadly, Totodile is still a lowly D rank (at best) pokemon.

Chikorita is probably still better with Overgrow so it can hit a little bit harder with Giga Drain if it gets to that low health...


Unfortunately, none of these releases are that great :/

The SD set is still very good and can be very dangerous if it setup 2HKOing a lot of walls and having access to Aqua Jet as priority can make him a decent late game cleaner, imo he'll be outclassed by Corphish but still viable

 

[Talpr0ne]

What about sturdy tyrunt though. Is it outclassed by Tiirtouga or not?

 

[Kavatika]

Unfortunately, Tyrunt offers little over Tirtouga. Tyrunt may have higher initial power than Tirtouga, but Tirtouga's statistical bulk is higher due to its increased defense, and after one turn of setup, Tirtouga is far more threatening. A could see a slight rise in viability, but as a sweeper, it is outclassed. A Stealth Rock set is also kinda outclassed by Onix and Dwebble, which offer higher speed, Taunt (from Onix), and additional hazards, knock off, and surprise value with counter (from Dwebble).

 

[boo836]

Pardon me because this is almost entirely unrelated, but it doesn't look like the thread is going very far as it is.
For the past few days, I've been asking around as to what people who are at least somewhat active in the current metagame think are their personal top 20 or so Pokemon in the current metagame, because I enjoy ranking things and was curious as to what other people think, and I think the results have been pretty interesting.
Please please please keep in mind that this list is EXTREMELY subjective, so don't take anything to heart; I just figured some other people might find the results entertaining, so I have decided to share them.

Individual lists

If anybody who I have included would like their name and/or list removed from here (specify which or I'll credit the list to anonymous), contact me and I will do so.
This should be common sense, but don't please publicly bash people for their lists in a hurtful manner. Excluding myself and Starmaster, of course, I included each of these users because they are active and, at least in my eyes, competent and respectable LC players.
If anybody's wondering, these lists are just ordered by when I got them.
Anonymous
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Chinchou
4. Fletchling
5. Foongus
6. Drilbur
7. Ponyta
8. Timburr
9. Archen
10. Tirtouga
11. Spritzee
12. Ferroseed
13. Magnemite
14. Vullaby
15. Abra
16. Porygon
17. Gastly
18. Omanyte
19. Staryu
20. Croagunk
21. Snubbull
22. Bunnelby
23. Carvanha
24. Diglett
25. Cottonee
26. Gothita
27. Zigzagoon
28. Vulpix
29. Scraggy
30. Trubbish
31. Corphish
32. Hippopotas
33. Lickitung
34. Bellsprout
35. Torchic
36. Larvesta
37. Doduo
38. Slowpoke
39. Cranidos
40. Wynaut
41. Houndour
42. Shellder
43. Dwebble
44. Elekid
45. Koffing
46. Lileep
47. Surskit
48. Pumpkaboo
49. Aipom
50. Shellos

zeriloa
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Chinchou
4. Drilbur
5. Archen
6. Abra
7. Ponyta
8. Timburr
9. Carvanha
10. Magnemite
11. Fletchling
12. Tirtouga
13. Cottonee
14. Vullaby
15. Ferroseed
16. Foongus
17. Spritzee
18. Bunnelby
19. Omanyte
20. Croagunk

[20:14] boo836:uh mienfoo, pawn, aipom, fletchling, chinchou are top 5 I think
[20:14] boo836:wait what
[20:14] boo836:I thought you meant
[20:14] boo836:Usage
boo836
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Fletchling
4. Chinchou
5. Abra
6. Tirtouga
7. Spritzee
8. Gastly
9. Drilbur
10. Archen
11. Timburr
12. Gothita
13. Cottonee
14. Ferroseed
15. Foongus
16. Croagunk
17. Porygon
18. Magnemite
19. Omanyte
20. Zigzagoon

Superpowerdude
1. Mienfoo
2. Fletchling
3. Pawniard
4. Chinchou
5. Drilbur
6. Tirtouga
7. Archen
8. Timburr
9. Foongus
10. Ponyta
11. Abra
12. Magnemite
13. Spritzee
14. Croagunk
15. Ferroseed
16. Bunnelby
17. Omanyte
18. Gastly
19. Corphish
20. Diglett

Tahu
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Chinchou
4. Fletchling
5. Archen
6. Drilbur
7. Spritzee
8. Abra
9. Ponyta
10. Tirtouga
11. Magnemite
12. Timburr
13. Foongus
14. Ferroseed
15. Vullaby
16. Croagunk
17. Diglett
18. Omanyte
19. Gastly
20. Gothita
21. Bunnelby
22. Carvanha
23. Cranidos
24. Taillow
25. Zigzagoon
26. Shellder
27. Trubbish
28. Cottonee
29. Larvesta
30. Hippopotas

Starmaster
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Timburr
4. Chinchou
5. Drilbur
6. Fletchling
7. Archen
8. Spritzee
9. Magnemite
10. Larvesta
11. Ponyta
12. Ferroseed
13. Foongus
14. Carvanha
15. Scraggy
16. Cottonee
17. Abra
18. Vullaby
19. Zigzagoon
20. Croagunk

Yagura
1. Chinchou
2. Mienfoo
3. Pawniard
4. Fletchling
5. Abra
6. Gastly
7. Drilbur
8. Timburr
9. Spritzee
10. Tirtouga
11. Archen
12. Magnemite
13. Porygon
14. Snover
15. Cottonee
16. Ponyta
17. Omanyte
18. Bellsprout
19. Croagunk
20. Ferroseed

Eren Yeagar
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Chinchou
4. Abra
5. Fletchling
6. Foongus
7. Spritzee
8. Porygon
9. Ferroseed
10.Archen
11.Drilbur
12.Timburr
13.Ferroseed
13.Tirtouga
14.Ponyta
15.Magnemite
16.Vullaby
17.Omanyte
18.Snubbull
19.Cottonee
20.Bunnelby

Sparkychild
1. Fletchling
2. Mienfoo
3. Chinchou
4. Archen
5. Drilbur
6. Tirtouga
7. Foongus
8. Ferroseed
9. Ponyta
10. Vullaby
11. Trubbish
12. Gothita
13. Diglett
14. Pawniard
15. Spritzee
16. Porygon
17. Timburr
18. Cottonee
19. Larvesta
20. Abra

GlassGlaceon
1. Pawniard
2. Mienfoo
3. Fletchling
4. Drilbur
5. Chinchou
6. Foongus
7. Ferroseed
8. Abra
9. Magnemite
10. Ponyta
11. Archen
12. Spritzee
13. Diglett
14. Hippopotas
15. Vullaby
16. Gastly
17. Larvesta
18. Timburr
19. Trubbish
20. Scraggy

Tricking
1. Porygon
2. Drilbur
3. Pawniard
4. Spritzee
5. Foongus
6. Fletchling
7. Archen
8. Diglett
9. Timburr
10. Magnemite
11. Chinchou
12. Staryu
13. Abra
14. Gastly
15. Ponyta
16. Larvesta
17. Mienfoo
18. Pumpkaboo
19. Gothita
20. Slowpoke
21. Stunky
22. Tirtouga
23. Dwebble
24. Cottonee
25. Taillow

apt-get
1 Mienfoo
2 Chinchou
3 Drilbur
4 Archen
5 Larvesta
6 Omanyte
7 Pawniard
8 Fletchling
9 Shellder
10 Abra
11 Ponyta
12 Cottonee
13 Croagunk
14 Gothita
15 Vulpix
16 Scraggy
17 Dwebble
18 Tirtouga
19 Timburr
20 Staryu

Heysup
1. Mienfoo
2. Fletchling
3. Pawniard
4. Abra
5. Tirtouga
6. Chinchou
7. Archen
8. Drilbur
9. Magnemite
10. Timburr
11. Zigzagoon
12. Vullaby
13. Carvanha
14. Spritzee
15. Cottonee
16. Ferroseed
17. Foongus
18. Ponyta
19. Porygon
20. Diglett
21 Trubbish
22 Dwebble
23 Croagunk
24 Gastly
25 Honedge
26 Gothita
27 Larvesta
28 Shellder
29 Doduo
30 Scraggy
31 Omanyte
32 Staryu
33 Munchlax
34 Bunnelby
35 Snubbull
36 Vulpix
37 Onix
38 Elekid
39 Riolu
40 Shellos
41 Tyrunt

Obvious Power
[18:45] Obvious Power:can you make sure to point out how
[18:45] Obvious Power:my list is the real one
[18:45] Obvious Power:with the most accuracy
[18:45] Obvious Power:and the others sucl
[18:45] Obvious Power:suck
[18:45] Obvious Power:thanks i look forward to seeing it
God. Squirtle
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Chinchou
4. Archen
5. Drilbur
6. Fletchling
7. Foongus
8. Ponyta
9. Spritzee
10. Ferroseed
11. Tirtouga
12. Timburr
13. Porygon
14. Abra
15. Diglett
16. Vullaby
17. Omanyte
18. Snubbull
19. Magnemite
20. Trubbish

DatCoconut
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Fletchling
4. Chinchou
5. Timburr
6. Archen
7. Drilbur
8. Magnemite
9. Abra
10. Foongus
11. Ponyta
12. Spritzee
13. Ferroseed
14. Croagunk
15. Carvanha
16. Vullaby
17. Cottonee
18. Porygon
19. Tirtouga
20. Bunnelby

ZoroarkForever
1. Chinchou
2. Mienfoo
3. Fletchling
4. Ponyta
5. Abra
6. Archen
7. Drilbur
8. Foongus
9. Spritzee
10. Timburr
11. Ferroseed
12. Tirtouga
13. Vullaby
14. Porygon
15. Corphish
16. Croagunk
17. Carvanha
18. Omanyte
19. Diglett
20. Trubbish
[20:36] Overlord ZF:personally, I find pawn mediocre whenever I use it
[20:36] Overlord ZF:most teams are prepared for it
[20:37] Overlord ZF:i.e. hp fight foongus+mienfoo is annoying
[20:38] Overlord ZF:prevalence of fighting types really I guess

Champion Fizz
1. Mienfoo
2. Pawniard
3. Archen
4. Drilbur
5. Chinchou
6. Ferroseed
7. Abra
8. Tirtouga
9. Foongus
10. Diglett
11. Timburr
12. Larvesta
13. Fletchling
14. Spritzee
15. Vullaby
16. Houndour
17. Shellder
18. Ponyta
19. Magnemite
20. Carvanha

The Avalanches
1. Pawniard
2. Fletchling
3. Mienfoo
4. Abra
5. Chinchou
6. Drilbur
7. Spritzee
8. Tirtouga
9. Timburr
10. Foongus
11. Ponyta
12. Archen
13. Magnemite
14. Diglett
15. Ferroseed
16. Cottonee
17. Bunnelby
18. Vullaby
19. Gastly
20. Porygon

Goddess Briyella
1. Mienfoo
2. Chinchou
3. Fletchling
4. Pawniard
5. Abra
6. Archen
7. Drilbur
8. Bunnelby
9. Ponyta
10. Croagunk
11. Timburr
12. Omanyte
13. Diglett
14. Cottonee
15. Tirtouga
16. Gothita
17. Munchlax
18. Dwebble
19. Foongus
20. Slowpoke

macle
1. Fletchling
2. Mienfoo
3. Pawnaird
4. Archen
5. Foongus
6. Tirouga
7. Drillbur
8. Ponyta
9. Ziggy
10. Timburr
11. Magnemite
12. Diglett
13. Cottonee
14. Abra
15. Gastly
16. Omanyte
17. Croagunk
18. Carvanha
19. Spritzee
20. Chinchou

Hawkstar
1. Timburr
2. Mienfoo
3. Abra
4. Fletchling
5. Drilbur
6. Archen
7. Carvanha
8. Foongus
9. Spritzee
10. Pawniard
11. Porygon
12. Magnemite
13. Bunnelby
14. Larvesta
15. Chinchou
16. Ponyta
17. Croagunk
18. Tirtouga
19. Diglett
20. Vullaby

I know I've missed quite a few users that I would otherwise want to include, mostly because I haven't been able to catch them on PS!.
If anybody else would like to submit their list, I'll include it here but since this is a really subjective list and solely for interest's sake anyway, I might not update the overall standings.

Overall

I probably made quite a few addition errors because I'm not very good at that kind of stuff, so if anybody notices something wrong, please let me know.
The layout is
Ranking. Pokemon - Sum of ranks given

All lists:
1. Mienfoo - 45
2. Fletchling - 94
3. Chinchou - 107
4. Drilbur - 124
5. Archen - 144
6. Abra - 177
7. Timburr - 212

Twenty lists:
1. Pawniard - 74
2. Tirtouga - 215
3. Ponyta - 222

Nineteen lists:
1. Foongus - 188
2. Spritzee - 203

Eighteen lists:

Seventeen lists:
1. Magnemite - 200

Sixteen lists:
1. Ferroseed - 206

Fifteen lists:
1. Porygon - 204
2. Cottonee - 258

Fourteen lists:
1. Vullaby - 212
2. Diglett - 217
3. Omanyte - 225
4. Croagunk - 235

Thirteen lists:

Twelve lists:

Eleven lists:

Ten lists:
1. Gastly - 156
2. Larvesta - 175
3. Bunnelby - 189

Nine lists:
1. Carvanha - 158

Eight lists:
1. Gothita - 145

Seven lists:
1. Trubbish - 153

Six lists:
1. Zigzagoon - 111

Five lists:
1. Scraggy - 110
2. Shellder - 122
3. Dwebble - 123

Four lists:
1. Staryu - 83
2. Snubbull - 92

Three lists:
1. Corphish - 65
2. Hippopotas - 76
3. Slowpoke - 78
4. Vulpix - 79

Two lists:
1. Taillow - 49
2. Munchlax - 50
3. Bellsprout - 52
4. Houndour - 57
5. Cranidos - 62
6. Doduo - 66
6. Pumpkaboo - 66
8. Elekid - 82
9. Shellos - 90

One list:
1. Snover - 14
2. Stunky - 21
3. Honedge - 25
4. Onix - 37
5. Riolu - 39
6. Tyrunt - 41
7. Squirtle - God

Again, all of this is very subjective. I'm sorry if this post doesn't belong here, but I thought it would be more interesting than the mostly back-and-forth argument that has been going on thus far.

I'm going off topic to say imo we should do this again. We should gauge how players individually see mons over time. I will personally volunteer to collect the data

 

[boo836]

stop liking my post and pm me lists instead. 30 mons, ranked by viability.

I'm only taking regs/ decent players /infamy too so I'm not including you if i dunno who you are. I apologize that it might seem insulting to new users, but there's no real criteria i could set.

edit 2.0: yall can't fuckin count

edit 3.0: If you're leaving obviously good mons out because you don't like them, I'm not likely to take your submission seriously. Don't fuck with the count.

 

[Kavatika]

So, a new suspect test has been announced. This one is a lot different than the ones we've had in the past (this gen at least), as there really isnt anything that's clearly broken. Mienfoo and Pawniard are amazing, but the metagame has long adapted to them, and they aren't as huge of threats as they could be. Shadow Tag and Arena Trap have been brought up before in this thread, and while I don't think they are over-centralizing or overpowered, they could warrant a suspect on the grounds of being uncompetitive, akin to the suspect in Ubers.

Still, I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts on the matter. Maybe something should be done about Pawniard or Trapping, or perhaps Eviolite and/or Berry Juice could be seriously looked at. Feel free to discuss n_n

 

[Merritt]

Honestly I feel like nothing really stands out. Gothita can be annoying, but isn't really broken. Diglett's very effective, but of course it has its own failings.

If anything*, I'd say Berry Juice. Eviolite is a close second, but in many ways I find the knock off eviolite play fairly interesting, as opposed to SturdyJuice.

*Note that I don't really think we need to ban anything.

 

[absdaddy]

what about changing suspect to a retest? just an idea