Metroidvania Mafia Postgame

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by vonFiedler, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. vonFiedler

    vonFiedler

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,804
    I was approached by polelover44 maybe even just before Romance Mafia finished. He had chosen me as a cohost because his earliest idea had borrowed from my previous game. He wanted three equal factions with anonymous leader communication. I wanted to start designing my Expert game, but I knew that one successful standard game wouldn't be enough to qualify for that. I also had already decided that I was done with 2v1, so the 3 equal factions idea appealed to me.

    I don't remember whose idea it was for each faction to elect leaders, but I knew that the game needed a little something extra. To be honest, I never liked the concept of players following a leader. I understand that its the easiest way to win, but it gives the majority of players the most marginal amount of involvement.

    I came up with the alternate win conditions idea so that every player would be forced to take a personal stake in the game. The result was that they did. If a player wasn't downright inactive, then they tended to be much more involved even in factions with dominant leaders. Now, I'm not gonna claim that the alternate win conditions I used were the best ones possible. For one, there were only 7 copied 3 times, and one of them in retrospect seems downright unfair. But I hope this idea isn't just an experiment forever. I want to see other hosts expand upon the idea, because it is what made this game great.

    I wanted players to truly lead, to use teamwork, to plot and scheme against their own faction if that is what they needed to win. This game succeeded on every level I wanted it to (save one part, check my mistake section below). I'm sorry that a few host mistakes made the game less fun for some players at times, but from my perspective I thought this game was maybe five times as good as Romance Mafia (a game where none of the experimental concept worked).

    In addition, I really upped the kills after Romance Mafia. There were to be 3 kills a night (3.5 if you count the Metroid), compared to the 2 kills a night in Romance (which too often didn't pan out anyway).

    On Priority

    Man, I claimed in the Romance Mafia postgame that I'd make a Office of Strategic Influence thread about the way I do priorities. And I did! But when I went to post it my browser closed. Which is why I am typing this in notepad. I'm not really gonna get into it, but I don't have priorities the way most hosts do. Instead, I work night actions like a logic puzzle.

    You ever do one of those puzzles as a kid where Bill is Blue and wants to sit next to someone Red but not someone Green, and Cherryl is Green and wants a window seat, etc? Basicly, the common assumption is that martyr has higher priority than hooker, and so cannot be hooked? Why not? If a hooker targets a martyr then the martyr should be hooked. If a martyr targets a hooker the hooker should redirected. If they target eachother it doesn't usually matter.

    Now there are situational priorities, like if a killer and a hooker target each other, and those can be decided beforehand by the host. But I could never imagine using the standard priority list system after working it this way.

    Not too off topic, but one role you'll notice I didn't use is Kidnapper. Why? Because its a shitty role. Not a shitty role to have of course, but its a shitty concept. Its just four actions mixed into one (sometimes five). Some people nerf it by lowering its priority, but that's the only thing my system can't do. So fuck it.

    Now as I said before, in any postgame I want to figure out what I learned and what mistake I made. Well, I did learn something valuable. But I'm not posting it. Some people may be able to guess what it was, but please don't make a big deal of it in this thread. So onto my mistake.

    I didn't restrict the moles.

    I figured this out a few hours after sending the Roles PMs out. My intention with the moles was NOT to spread information. In fact I hoped (and hinted) that the moles would realize that by sharing info they'd be outing themselves as a mole to the player moling them. Instead I wanted moles to be subtle saboteurs, encouraging bad decision and making teams distrust each other. What I SHOULD have done, is just told the moles that under no circumstances would they be allowed to share any info on the other faction. And under no circumstances, I mean no loopholes either. Maybe that will be for another game, but not my next. Most players are real tired of moles, and I certainly know why.

    Here are the spreadsheets and docs I had for the game. They are kind of a mess, Metroidvania Day Stuff in particular became something of a repository for any info we didn't have another place for.

    Design Spreadsheet
    Role PMs
    Day Stuff
    Night Stuff

    The Belmonts
    Once again, my favorite faction loses. Pretty badly too, I'm sorry to say. There were times at the end where I was really crossing my fingers, but it just wasn't gonna happen. Though they didn't "follow the leader" in the classic sense, their team did have the strongest leader and when he was gone they struggled to keep up when the Space Pirates were more powerful and the Castlevanians were largely seen as no threat.

    The Belmonts had kills on the first two nights out of three, but also had the lowest kill priority (which never mattered, but could have been game changing).


    Phantasia was the intended leader for the Belmonts, but Acklow took the position before Phantasia could. Still, Phantasia was able to meet his secondary win condition and when Acklow was gone he was one of the two players really giving a great effort to hold the Belmonts together against all odds.

    Mayor is not seen as a good role generally, but in this multifaction game it meant so much that probably the most unfair thing to the Belmonts was the fact that the role also existed as an item.

    The Ice Beam will probably be the coolest and most lasting legacy of this game. The "role" was dubbed the Freezer by players on the IRC, to which I realized "Holy Shit, did I just create a new staple?" (well, its a part of the rare NOC Kidnap, but as I said thats a bunch of roles combined). Being Frozen is annoying, but so is being silenced, persuaded, hooked, redirected, etc. It's hella disruptive, but not really as game winning as Silencer. I hope to see this in more games.


    My favorite character died Night 1 after being rand killed by the wolf. Yeah, fuck that. So I don't have any insight into the player. He obviously didn't complete his secondary win condition.

    Of course a Belmont had to have the Vampire Killer, and an unhookable bodyguard would have been a huge boon the Belmonts. Oh well.


    Coolking49 was only just active enough, didn't read his item carefully enough. I still maintain that I worded it correctly. As a card game designer, I also consider "what if this was combined with this". Well what if the Masamune gave you a negative 1 vote and it was given to Phantasia? Would have have 2 votes or -1 votes? Worded this way, he would have 0. Problem solved. But for some reason Coolking49 thought that he would have 2 less votes against him. I don't even know why.

    As a Martyr, he was instrumental in the death of Captain Bagman which led to the Space Pirate downfall. But he idled too much early on because, once again, he misread his role pm and thought he was a Reverse Martyr.


    [​IMG]

    Not sending on an action on Night 0 wasn't smart, but otherwise Aura Paladin was a useful member of his team. He ensured that Acklow could inspect in peace, and on Night 3 ensured that Acklow's Dagger stunt wouldn't be messed with. Sadly, a Maria Belmont and Samus Aran buddy cop team-up was not in the cards.

    Aura Paladin started with one of three hot potato items that was meant to be passed around. The Red Rust lowered his priority, making his action useless. Yet he didn't pass it on Night 0 -_- . It was passed to Spiffy, who as an inspector didn't give a shit that his priority was lowered, so it was never passed again.


    King Emerald was a semi-competent player in his first game, and was the same here. He hooked Aura Guardian on a pretty important night, and seeing as King Emerald's win condition was that Aura Guardian has to lose this was a pretty good move.

    King Emerald also had the Axe, which actually could have been better. I should have made it an all purpose redirector, so that all action USER1 uses or targeted at USER1 would go to USER2, or something along those lines. It was a one use item of a regular role basicaly. But it still could have come in handy. Here's a tip. If you have a one-shot item, find a way to use it. Because your enemies could find a way to use theirs and gain the upper hand.


    Acklow took the position of leader very early and held onto it, making smart decisions and helping his teammates with their secondary win conditions. He had the chance to fulfill his by killing Staraptor Call, but instead focused on the advancement of the team.

    As an inspector, he made good inspections (found two neutrals who he tried to work with) and used his BPV well in combination with the Daggers to reduce the number of Belmont deaths one night from 2 to 1.

    In hindsight, it was an overreaction to prevent the one use BPV from being given away but it made for a good inside joke if you've played Symphony of the Night.


    I must have heard a thousand times how unfair it was for the mole to have to live until the end of the game to win. And she was right. Not just because as a mole it meant that she had to be more reserved, but because another player wanted her dead. And yet, she did a great job of staying alive, the only mole to live past Night 2. She also lived until the game was called, so you could say she fulfilled her secondary win condition (but not her primary).

    My thought was that while it was asking a bit to stay alive, the player wouldn't have to DO anything to win. They wouldn't have to seek out X, or plead to become leader, or kill a specific player. But considering that only 2 players were alive on the winning team (and really only 1 would have been if I hadn't called the game), it really was a cruel win condition for this format (that might work better in a tradition village vs. mafia game).

    But not as cruel as giving jiggly the super reverse martyr item.

    Rogue was one of three mostly unused roles that was used to make a convincing mole.


    The Space Pirates
    While the early game was a contest between the Belmonts and the Castlevanians, in the second half it was almost certain this team was gonna win. In fact, at one point Crux asked me when I was gonna call it. This team was defined by its strong teamwork. An ok leader emerged at first, but they excelled when they all started working together.

    The Space Pirates could kill on the second and third nights, but had the highest kill priority.


    For a player who wasn't the most active in the world (always playing Monster Hunter Tri when I tried talking to him on IRC), he sure was a center of attention. A dumb comment on his part almost led him to being lynched Day 1, and Pidge gave him a way to victory at the expense of his team.

    Yet in spite of this his Joseph's Cloak (which was, amusingly, reffered to as Joseph's Dream Coat in at least one spreadsheet) never broke. He was infected, which it wouldn't stop. He was passed a bad item which the cloak wouldn't stop.

    His inspects were good in that he had every living player's Role PM by the end.

    The funny thing is he wasn't even supposed to have this role. polelover44 did most of the player assignment, but I made a few tweaks, like making sure good players were in leader roles. Well, originally BunnyMaster was Ridley and I thought "Mother Brain Leader" without double checking.


    Due to his insistence that he should be leader, he was suspected of being mole by the rest of his faction. He was killed Night 1 by the Castles, so its a moot point.

    Redirector was arguably their strongest role, and losing it early was pretty bad, but they made due pretty well without it. I'm just sad that items like the Bible never got used.


    loudkirbyking was part of the trio of Space Pirates using really strong teamwork, so they helped him win and in turn he helped them out as much as he could. He had a plan to win until the very end, but sadly he was seen through.

    As noted by loudkirbyking, if Crissaegrim hadn't been stolen by Samus Captain Bagman wouldn't have died. That certainly could have changed the outcome of the game.


    Easily the most powerful role the Space Pirates had, as hooker and mayor. He was smart to hand off the Badelaire before dying, and displayed good teamwork with Crux and loudkirbyking. On Night 5 he could choose to hook either the persuader RaRe555 or the martyr coolking49.

    Having a mayor item when it was such an important role to the Belmonts was a fuckup on my part. If I could go back, I'd have made the Badelaire give an extra half a vote, so that it only affects ties.


    Subbing in later in the game, he joined the teamwork circle and became the brains when Crux died. Not only was Silencer extremely important, but Rogue was actually insanely good, to the point where ipl could only be killed on nights where both enemy factions had a kill. Didn't stop him from being lynched though, or his kill against Phantasia from being stopped.


    Crux was leader at first, but soon the Space Pirates became more of a team and its a good thing. Still, his people were united and working strongly together. EDIT: I said that Crux traded a spreadsheet, but turns out he gave out a fake one.

    So if I don't really have priorities, what does a Priority Down role do? It creates a false priority for that turn. Simply, its a situational hook. Actions that affect other actions like hooker, martyr, etc. do nothing when their priority is lowered. However, silencer, persuasion, and inspector don't care.

    I'm glad that the Holy Water was never used. What was I thinking? It was a busted item from a busted game. Now, if I said it only killed the first person targeting the player that might be ok.


    Yeti was figured out by the Belmonts almost immediately, but not before Yeti could give alot of info to Crux. In Crux's words, Yeti was a huge help.

    Tyrfing was another hot potato item that made the player's vote not count. It could acutally be useful in the hands of a mole, but it was passed around more than any other item, even being scavenged out of the grave.


    Castlevanians
    These guys won a real dark horse victory. Their leader tried to bully the other factions, but ended up getting his team fucked in the short run. A few player went inactive, but the players who subbed in schemed and plotted their way towards victory.

    Casltevanians killed on the first and third nights, and had the a kill priority higher than the Belmonts but lower than the Space Pirates.


    Spiffy was chosen for Dracula because I thought he was the best player at the time among the Castles (aside from the mole). Was I wrong? ginganinja shows promise, but everyone else was mostly inactive.

    Spiffy's master plan was to get lynched to waste the other faction's time and mock them when his LPV worked. And then he was so surprised and depressed when both the other factions (and the wolf) decimated the Castlevanians.

    Spiffy did not fulfill his secondary win condition, and so lost. ginganinja decided that Spiffy had outlived his usefulness, and pulled a coup.


    This guy actually hooked Spiffy on Night 0, if you want a good indication of the kind of distrust going on in the Castle camp. Other than that he didn't really make an impact, being killed by rival hooker King Emerald.

    Snype really teased me by having RaRe555 scavenge the Stopwatch, but it never got used. And I was excited for that update too.


    Due to Raverist's inactivity this guy did damn near nothing most of the game, but when RaRe subbed in he was a force to be reckoned with. Both factions were rightly afraid of his Persuasion.

    Morph Ball was the least used but potentially most powerful of the three suit items, which is why I restricted it.


    This guy got the shortest stick. He played really well, stabbed Spiffy in the back when his faction needed it most, lived for a long time. But though he deserved a Castle victory more than Quagsires or -TLE-, he lost. Well, that's how it happens sometimes. Better luck next game.

    The Alucart Sword was the hot potato item that caused the most fuss, almost leading to a few godkills.


    Didn't do much except suck up a kill for ginganinja (a good move). Sword of Dawn got stolen, but he was never inspected anyway.

    Not much else to say. Castles won and X lost, so -TLE- won.


    Subbed in late with RaRe555, and the two of them schemed and plotted their way to victory. At first they wanted to fulfill their alternate win conditions (which was true, and got the other factions off their back), but when they realized they wouldn't be out of the game and had to fight for the Castles anyway they decided to go all or nothing.

    Priority Up is a situational safeguard. It won't protect against things like silencer or persuade, but it had the other side effect of making kills unblockable (something that was never used).

    The Cross was actually used extremely well, with Snype predicting a kill attempt on RaRe555 and giving it to him the night before.


    Another player I've seen do really well, but he hasn't had a chance to prove himself further in my games. Mole was unneeded with Crux sharing his spreadsheet, and Quagsires was targeted for victory by loudkirbyking.

    Spore Spawn was kind of weak but without going into Metroid Prime territory I was really running out of Space Pirate roles (I love Nightmare, but he should be associate with the X if anything). Gurthang, like the Vampire Killer never came in handy.


    Neutrals
    You thought I'd go easy on the neutrals after Romance Mafia? Expect them to be a staple in almost any game of mine. Three neutrals had a player who wanted to help them, and a player who wanted to kill them. The last neutral had alot of enemies, but a fairly easy win condition.


    My second favorite character in this game, and more depressing from a host standpoint. This was a really cool character. Samus needed to acquire her three suit items, and when doing so she would gain her fifth, the Super Missile to kill the Metroid. But Fatecrashers never even got close. A rand kill from the Metroid sealed his fate.


    I was actually really worried about the number of kills this role should require, with the pacing of the game. Pidge won right as the game was called, being blocked by bodyguards twice. Then factor in that Pidge made his job much easier for himself by targeting two other neutrals (one randomly). Choosing BunnyMaster for the final kill was truly genius, as no one would try to stop him (except Snype, who declinded to).


    Some players ask how Staraptor Call was supposed to be able to win? Well, that's a good question. He could have teamed up with Quagsires, and I did give him a kill per night. Still, he was used mostly as a scapegoat when instead a faction could have used him.


    This guy did the best he could, really. He forged alliances even though four players wanted him dead, he spread out his infection, and he had some cool ideas for how to use his powers (like a mass persuasion, which was sadly never realized). He certainly lived long enough to win, but it was bad luck that the Castlevanians won instead of the Belmonts.


    Alright, now its award time, but I'm not giving out the MVP award. Instead, every player has 48 hours to vote for MVP in this thread (but in order to vote, you should have other things to say in your post about the game).

    The Master Librarian Award for Best Spreadsheet goes to;
    Show Hide
    Pidge, because it is shaped like a Metroid.


    The Adam Malkovich Award for Best Leader goes to;
    Show Hide
    Acklow, for leading the Belmonts.


    The Jonathan and Charlotte Award for Best Teamwork goes to;
    Show Hide
    Crux, loudkirbyking, Captain Bagman, and imperfectluck.


    The Graham Jones Award for Best Schemer goes to;
    Show Hide
    StevenSnype, for taking victory for the Castles.


    Congratulations loudkirbyking, Pidge, BunnyMaster, StevenSnype, RaRe555, Quagsires, and -TheLucarioEffect- for winning Metroidvania Mafia!
  2. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,998
    The My Shanoa Award for Sexiest Player goes to:

    Show Hide
    showeriffy mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    [​IMG]


    Congratulations to all the winners!
  3. Crux

    Crux Resident Privilege Checker
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,215
    As I have said on IRC, I gave very, very little on the sheet which I gave Spiffy. A lot of the roles I faked and only gave him as much as I thought would save BunnyMaster. TBH I was surprised he was happy with such little information.
  4. ginganinja

    ginganinja Goodbye
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,616
    hey nice postgame von.

    Giving my insight on the game here

    I don't mind that i lost as I knew it was likely unless our faction somehow pulled a clean sweep. I also knew that BG would be targets early on since they were key to a faction surviving.

    Guttered that I was allied with Spiffy and would have tried and backstabbed/betrayed/used as human shield early game but he had such a useful role so I (reluctantly) agreed to work with Spiffy. I hate being kept in the dark so got Spiffy to pass his info that he got onto me as a safeguard.

    Castles started very strong imo. I passed the sword to BunnyMaster preventing him from talking in the thread which almost led to his lynch. In return for us stopping the lynch on BunnyMaster crux gave us info on the SP. I trusted Spiffy early on and advised him on occasion and Spiffy gave me all his info as a safeguard. Anyway Spiffy wanted a double cross the moment he got that SP info but I did not want SP keen on revenge so early in the game and pressed for an alliance with the SP. Did not really work out though. Also it was around this time where randoms started asking me for my faction, W/C and role. For shits and giggles I told them I was allied with Fatecrashers and apparently so people took me at my word (for a time anyway)

    D2 was where things stared heating up. Pidge told me who he was and Spiffy found Aura Guardian so we had found 2 Neutrals. Pidge also had targeted Fatecrashers. I wanted to "lean" on Fatecrashers since I figured that he was either Belmont or Neutral and thought that he might give us info/possible alliance n exchange for us saving his skin. Spiffy wanted the kill to go ahead though and so I did not press the point (since as BG I should have been in the shadows I guess). at this point we had 90% of the player list and I was trying to figure out whether Staraptor Call or Acklow were the Wolf so that we could work together (yeah I know I played this game like a diplomacy game).

    I worked with Pidge although I don't know if he actually listened to the targets I gave him or if he just did his own thing lol.

    N2 we almost lost the game. we had a fucking MASSACRE and I guess it waas lucky that Spiffy asked TLE to save me otherwise I would have died. Spiffy told me that Ikk thought he was wolf and that Ikk told Spiffy that if he was wolf to kill me so I knew that I had a target painted on my forehead. Spiffy got frozen I think at this time and at this point I thought "fuck it" and became leader. I ignored my W/C as near impossible and focused on a Castlevanian win above all else. Spiffy godkilled himself (WHY oh WHY?) which was irritating as we had 3 members left and 2 of those members were inactive. I kept trying to get that holy cross but it never worked out.

    Anyway when Spiffy died I tried to get as many soft alliences as possiable since I was conscious that Ikk wanted me dead and both factions could easily bump us off. Tried to work with as many neutrals as possible since I had nothing against them and needed there help. I think it was Acklow who told us to hit the werewolf in a lynch and I agreed since it was too dangerous for it to be around and I had no better targets and there was no guarantee that it would work with me.

    Things went o.k for a bit and I kinda had a few chats between Jig and me helping each other out with lynchs and stuff. I had a nice plan where both Belmonts and us had a kill and I thought Pidge was locked on to Ikk. The plan between the Belmonts and us was that the SP BG would die and they would give me info on there team. My plan was to have Pidge kill Ikk thus freeing up a kill of my own to hit a SP which would leave me the last BG left and all factions equal in numbers. That plan did not work out too well and I had to do some fast talking to explain why a Belmont died on a night that the Sp had no kil. I also kinda had a deal with the SP until they decided to lynch me. at that point I had done a fast tally up and thought it unlikely that I would survive the lynch (and I could say nothing in the thread) so, pissed that the SP tried to backstab me I gave all info I had on the SP to every Belmont alive in the game free of charge. Then to my amazement (I still have no idea why) the Belmonts stepped in and saved me by tying the lynch. At this point it was obvious that I was going to die that night. The funny thing was that I kinda hoped that the SP would hit a Belmont which would make it easier for us but no dice. me and Ikk had a massive flame PM war (and I think lkk has the log still) where I tried to piss him off and make it even more likely that they would hit me rather than rare or snype (which were still strong roles and at least they had a chance to get there W/C done). I also worked out a plan where if I died the castles would still win but Snype and Rare had a better plan so props for them.

    This mafia was very fun and I learnt loads so thanks to von and polelover44 for that. I think I tried to focus on alliances too much and had to do a weird balancing act trying to keep both the Belmonts and SP happy before the SP tried to lynch me. Had loads of plans too but unfortunately they never really came off.

    don't know who should get MVP but gotta give Snype credit for finding a win.

    oh and some people asked how I figured out peoples roles. It was mainly process of elimination (aided by my spreadsheet) but I figured that the experinced players were neutrals (based on both A_G, Pidge and I guess Fate all being Neutral). lkk was figured out in that I knew most of the SP list and also I reckoned that if I got BG role then perhaps other 'newer' players might have got BG role for there faction as well.


    wow sorry about that massive wall of text!
  5. Pidge

    Pidge

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,114
    lol: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3131217&postcount=2

    I was never persuaded, there was no host mistake about me being sent my persuasion PM late. I just said that so Space Pirates wouldn't yell at me.

    It was funny, but also kind of sad when I talked to Aura Guardian about killing him the night before, and he couldn't really do anything about it, and no one really cared (I think). :(

    At first I was worried about everyone wanting to just lynch the neutrals at the beginning. However, everyone got some sense and figured you could use us neutrals to their advantage if we worked with you. I never had to approach anyone at first, they came to me. I think ginganinja talked to me first so I could work with the Castlevanians. A day or two later, offers from Captain Bagman and Jigglypuffers came, from the Space Pirates and Belmont teams respectively. Eventually it was public knowledge what I was. However, I don't think each faction knew I was really working with the others, although they probably suspected I would eventually.

    When ginganinja came to me, the death of Fatecrashers was already cued. Then Jiggly wanted me to get rid of Raverist, while Bagman wanted me to get rid of someone else, who I forgot. Since I wanted to please both of the leading factions, I suggested Raverist in place of who Bagman wanted me to kill, and he was fine with it. Meanwhile, I told the Castlevanians I would be killing loudkirbyking for them. It turned out that leeching onto Raverist never worked, and I found this out late, so I just went ahead with X, Aura Guardian. Then I realized, maybe a little late, that I could kill BunnyMaster, and that no one would care or stop me, except his own faction, which wouldn't know he would leaving them to die. I'm glad BunnyMaster never got lynched, or else getting the final kill could of been messier. I actually voted him and didn't realize what I was doing. I think he should of came to me earlier, though, rather than almost minutes away from being lynched.

    Also, I have been The Lord of the Flies in Lord of the Flies Mafia and Metroid in Metroidvania mafia. That's kind of cool, right? Both roles were neutral, too.

    Overall, it was fun playing with you guys. I can tell vonFiedler was really dedicated into making this game, and hope his future games are a success too. Also, I think Spiffy is a bigger fanboy of me than before?

    See you all next game!

    COOL METROID BOSSES :pimp::pimp: :cloud:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    ridley you so silly
  6. Spiffy

    Spiffy

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,053
    Place holder for my monster post of rage when I get back from school.
  7. Quagsires

    Quagsires

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,132
    We noticed though. I was not an inspector...

    But either way, I did get info mainly from Captainbagman on all but Athasan, and he was eventually subbed out for inactivity (ie not getting on Smogon in entire cycles), so no one really knew what he was then from what I set...
  8. coolking49

    coolking49

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,731

    As a vampire, you are forever willing to sleep if it is in humanity’s benefit. Once per night, you can PM vonFiedler and polelover44 with “Night X - Sleep in front of USER”. USER’s night action will target you instead of its original target.


    the reverse matyr part was my stupidity. I read through the role fast after reading the name "sleep in front of user" I figured I would be a BG of sorts. I guess my mind kinda got that stuck to that image even after reading it. Again, it was pretty stupid on my part not to have read it properly.

    You have the Masamune, the most powerful legendary katana ever made. However, because it is so powerful, it also reduces your vote count by two. Your vote count can go negative because of this item.

    This one I thought could have been worded better. "it also reduces your vote count by two. Your vote count can go negative because of this item." Made me think that it meant I would start with a total of -2 votes, which is a perfectly reasonable assumption after reading this. How else would you word a role like that? I think for what my role actually was it should have been worded "Your vote counts for two votes less than normal". I talked to Vonfielder and he said he didn't make it say "Your vote counts for -2" because it wouldn't be true if it was given to a mayor. Still, this screwed up one of the lynches.

    I thought it was a fun game though, and I think this is the longest i've ever survived in a mafia game. Thats probably not good though. I like 3 kills a night. We should do that more often.


  9. imperfectluck

    imperfectluck
    is a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 4th Official Smogon Tournament

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,205
    Hey, freezer was pretty important, it messed our team up during the endgame. I wanted to lynch RaRe555 on the day coolking was lynched, but I ended up going along with coolking mostly because I didn't want to have the mayor item exposed on me at the time I voted. Then, I was made the killer by lkk and Bunny since I couldn't communicate with them, which ended up hurting our chances of pulling off that critical kill in the end. Freezer for best role...
  10. tape-type

    tape-type

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,488
    Boners.

    Overall, a fun game. But the day lynches (for most of half the game at least) seemed to be too obvious and tipped towards lynching the "biggest" faction. I think only at the end (when nearly everyone is already dead, anyway) it looked like you actually had to give it some thought into mayors and persuaders and silencers.

    There was no way for a faction to dominate the others seeing how you could just lynch them the next day. In the end, the least numerous faction won, and to me it wasn't as much as them being underestimated as the other faction being so big. I guess you could argue that's good, too, though...

    oi Ice Beam is a pretty cool item!!! Funny how everyone thought it was a role.

    edit: I might organize my thoughts on this game later. Or not. Don't expect anything.
  11. Objection

    Objection

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,535
    I know I wasn't in this game, but I wanted to point something out:

    Um ... what? "Reduces by" means "subtracts"; ie, your new vote total is your original vote total minus 2. I don't see how you could think it meant you start with -2 votes, unless you thought it said "Reduces to".
  12. loudkirbyking

    loudkirbyking

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2009
    Messages:
    407
    Well, time for my story...

    Night 0... Geez, that one was madness. After considering everything, the only person I really sat and spoke to was Yeti, since she was in my role PM. She said she wanted to be a back-up leader, in case the actual leader went down. I'd yet to be contacted by anyone(BunnyMaster), so I had no clue. He finally contacted me really late that night, and began talking... Which means I was probably the least informed, behind Yeti at this point. Yay... I love that.

    At least he did contact me again before deadline, and tell me Crux was with us, for me to talk to him... Crux... Geez, what can I say. I think he wanted to be leader a bit TOO much. Immediantely after I asked him what he needed me for, he demanded a claim. I'm no expert player, but someone that you've never talked to suddenly asking for your role isn't very trustworthy. So, I said I wanted some proof first, let me live the day out, and if I find him all right, I'll toss him my "role".

    Day 1, just madness. Everyone wanted Bunny dead for one overlook, in which I knew he had contacted me. Crux utterly demanded info on me at this point, to save Bunny, which, I'm quite glad I didn't give out anything, because he shared it with the Belmonts. That, in itself, kinda spelled "We're dead".

    Night 1, oh my... I'd made my claim of every other night bodyguard by this point, since Crux wasn't to be trusted. At this point, I didn't want to speak out to ANYONE, but still wanted information. But, I got nothing beyond orders.

    Skipping ahead, night 2, with danman down, we knew the mole had to be Quagsires. I asked Crux if whoever could send me, since it was my alternate win condition to kill the mole (Which was also my proof I was a Space Pirate, especially after I won). So, yep, von and pole both congratulated me, and at this point, I could just put my actions in and be good. But, I'm not THAT mean. I tried to help.

    And since I'm not here to give a lecture story, I'll skip to the day I wish never happened. Day 5.

    It started off everyone wanting ME dead. I'd been found out, but at this point, didn't really care. IPL said that, if all was right, we'd win the lynch. We'd need neutral's help, but it'd work. We got up a lynch on Aura Guardian, and was going to win that, when ipl came up with a master plan. We would change our votes to ginga, and assuming one of two things would happen.
    1. We'd win due to the mayor item, the knowing of a -1 item, and the knowing of a -2 item that we thought WASN'T on coolking... which we learned hard after that it was.
    2. Due to some inactivity, some people wouldn't change their votes to me, and thus it'd be split, allowing an easy win due to unknown voting numbers.

    Well... That failed. When Jiggly and Bunny were unpersuaded, it got me a bit upset about how an error like that could be done.

    Then when Pidge said that his kill didn't work, it also led to some more irritation. Two errors in one day? Pole's on a roll!

    And finally, when Pidge "claimed" he was persuaded, at this point I thought it was just another pole error, which annoyed the heck out of me, which is why I didn't suspect it more then normal. And, I ended up flaming the heck outta ginganinja and vonFiedler because of these errors... Sorry to both...

    In the end, I asked von about, since the wording was so different, if both could still be legit. He said... Well, here.

    Show Hide

    01[22:07] <loudkirbyking> All right. To be exact, I have two different PM's of people being persuaded, both sent by you, and the wording is different
    [22:07] <vonFiedler> yeah
    01[22:07] <loudkirbyking> So one has to be fake?
    01[22:08] <loudkirbyking> Or can they be the same, even though the wording is different on them?
    [22:08] <vonFiedler> wording can be different
    01[22:08] <loudkirbyking> All right.
    [22:08] <vonFiedler> I make no effort for wording to be the same
    01[22:08] <loudkirbyking> ...That makes things more difficult for me lol
    [22:08] <vonFiedler> but easier for fakers
    [22:08] <vonFiedler> :)
    01[22:08] <loudkirbyking> I know!
    01[22:08] <loudkirbyking> Darnit!
    01[22:09] <loudkirbyking> You do that on purpose!
    [22:09] <vonFiedler> pretty much
    [22:10] <vonFiedler> people can't divine actually how I'm gonna word things


    So, in all logic, I was more irritated then a bear being poked with a stick... Yeah, so I was ready to scream at someone... meh.

    Next night, yeah, we kinda knew that I was next to die. We aimed for ginga, knowing he'd get in our way for later kills. This is also where Bagman made his mistake, and I got martyred. It was an honest mistake that we hadn't truly thought about too much, but... whatever. I ended up having to vote for myself, but we ended up lynching coolking, so the martyr was out. Bagman was down, so we knew martyr would be a big role.

    And finally, being frozen to the thread. I got stuck with the lynch 0 item, which I died with in the end. I knew ipl was up to die, so I just decided to sacrifice to keep the better role. My vote was still 0, but if I wanted a chance, I'd have to convince a few users to vote for me. It was worth a try, but nothing happened.

    Bunny had told me before I was frozen that he was going to die... So I had to try to survive the night. If I could, I could work with the Belmonts for one night, finish of Castles, then backstab the Belmonts nicely, and win in the end. So, yep, I "gave up" in terms, since I knew I'd be the lone ranger. A bodyguard with no teammates to guard... Yay... It was a hard battle, but I still lost and died. Who cares, I won in the end.

    Anywho, my big flame against ginga... people wanted it, so here.

    Show Hide
    [20:49] <ginganinja> I did tell you that lynching me was a bad Idea
    01[20:50] <loudkirbyking> No, if coolking hadn't misspelled your name, we would've won
    01[20:50] <loudkirbyking> Unless I miscounted somewhere
    [20:50] <ginganinja> ehh
    [20:50] <ginganinja> thats for the postgame
    01[20:51] <loudkirbyking> I'm going to find out!
    01[21:16] <loudkirbyking> I want answer, now
    01[21:16] <loudkirbyking> Why was I redirected at?
    01[21:18] <loudkirbyking> I know you sent your redirector to redirect Pidge. Why? And why was I the target?
    [21:18] <ginganinja> dear loudkirbyking
    [21:19] <ginganinja> FUCK OFF
    [21:19] <ginganinja> I owe you nothing
    01[21:19] <loudkirbyking> I WANT MA ANSWER!
    [21:19] <ginganinja> dude
    01[21:19] <loudkirbyking> Okay, watch your faction go down in flames. I don't care if I die.
    [21:19] <ginganinja> you tried to backstab me remember?
    [21:19] <ginganinja> why would I tell you anything?
    01[21:19] <loudkirbyking> No, I didn't. I followed orders, I said that
    01[21:19] <loudkirbyking> I tried to convince them otherwise
    [21:19] <ginganinja> yeah well
    [21:20] <ginganinja> you did a great Job did'nt you?
    01[21:20] <loudkirbyking> ...You want to complain that I actually TRIED?
    [21:20] <ginganinja> im not made at you
    [21:20] <ginganinja> mad*
    [21:20] <ginganinja> I warned you
    [21:20] <ginganinja> that lynching me was a bad idea
    01[21:21] <loudkirbyking> Yeah, well, if Pidge hadn't been persuaded at me
    01[21:21] <loudkirbyking> You'd be in the grave
    01[21:21] <loudkirbyking> Who's to say I can't Night Kill you right off?
    [21:21] <ginganinja> well
    [21:21] <ginganinja> you can
    [21:21] <ginganinja> 2bh
    [21:21] <ginganinja> I am expecting it
    01[21:21] <loudkirbyking> I'm done playing games ginga. I want my answer. Why did RaRe persuade to vote me?
    [21:22] <ginganinja> man
    [21:22] <ginganinja> why would I give you any more info
    [21:22] <ginganinja> I helped your faction
    [21:22] <ginganinja> and you guys just tried to backstab me
    [21:22] <ginganinja> without even a reason
    01[21:23] <loudkirbyking> We have a reason
    [21:23] <ginganinja> well
    01[21:23] <loudkirbyking> A very logical reason. But I can't tell you, since you're alive
    [21:23] <ginganinja> I never found out what it was
    01[21:23] <loudkirbyking> If you were in a grave, I'd spill it
    [21:23] <ginganinja> besides
    [21:23] <ginganinja> even if you hit me
    [21:23] <ginganinja> during the night
    [21:23] <ginganinja> thats giving the Belmonts victory
    01[21:23] <loudkirbyking> It'll be 3 3 2 1, nut
    [21:24] <ginganinja> no
    01[21:24] <loudkirbyking> Yes
    01[21:24] <loudkirbyking> Why not?
    [21:24] <ginganinja> cannot tell you
    01[21:24] <loudkirbyking> That's assuming that I don't guard whoever they kill
    [21:24] <ginganinja> cause
    [21:24] <ginganinja> you are alive
    01[21:24] <loudkirbyking> A_G is gonna die
    [21:24] <ginganinja> oh
    [21:24] <ginganinja> better protect yourself then
    01[21:24] <loudkirbyking> Good.
    01[21:24] <loudkirbyking> I'll be sure to do that
    01[21:25] <loudkirbyking> Who's to say I don't have a bpv item?
    [21:25] <ginganinja> I do
    01[21:25] <loudkirbyking> Nope
    01[21:25] <loudkirbyking> Show me what proof you have. I could have one
    [21:25] <ginganinja> yeah
    [21:25] <ginganinja> show the guy who backstabbed me proof
    [21:25] <ginganinja> good one
    01[21:25] <loudkirbyking> Why do you think I was so angry about the lynch, but don't care about the night kill
    01[21:26] <loudkirbyking> Night kill death I don't care about
    [21:26] <ginganinja> well
    01[21:26] <loudkirbyking> Lynch, I do
    [21:26] <ginganinja> I told you
    [21:26] <ginganinja> I did
    [21:26] <ginganinja> but you had to try and kill me
    01[21:26] <loudkirbyking> And even if I don't have the item, who's to say someone didn't give me one?
    01[21:27] <loudkirbyking> One might not have been passable, but what if there's another that is?
    01[21:27] <loudkirbyking> After all, it's easy to give items away to allies who need them
    [21:27] <ginganinja> it takes a night to
    [21:27] <ginganinja> get an item
    01[21:27] <loudkirbyking> What if I have it all ready?
    01[21:27] <loudkirbyking> You don't know what PM's I get
    01[21:28] <loudkirbyking> I could have it, and be laughing away
    01[21:28] <loudkirbyking> I KNEW I'd be targetted tonight
    01[21:28] <loudkirbyking> I knew it during the day
    01[21:28] <loudkirbyking> I knew it during last night
    [21:28] <ginganinja> you are bluffing
    01[21:28] <loudkirbyking> I knew I'd die tonight
    01[21:29] <loudkirbyking> It was only a matter of time, and since Bunny was still the target during last day, I knew it wouldn't be that night
    01[21:29] <loudkirbyking> But, I plan ahead. WAY ahead
    01[21:29] <loudkirbyking> I knew I'd die soon. Who's to say I didn't ask someone to pass me that item?
    [21:30] <ginganinja> see the thing is
    01[21:30] <loudkirbyking> You think I'm bluffing? I don't care about being targetted tonight
    [21:30] <ginganinja> I know you plan ahead
    01[21:30] <loudkirbyking> YOU CAN'T KILL!
    01[21:30] <loudkirbyking> Belmonts do
    [21:30] <ginganinja> so
    [21:30] <ginganinja> I thik\nk
    01[21:30] <loudkirbyking> And you hated the Belmonts last
    [21:30] <ginganinja> think*
    [21:30] <ginganinja> thats why you are mad
    01[21:30] <loudkirbyking> Even if you tell them, it's too late
    [21:30] <ginganinja> because something happened
    01[21:30] <loudkirbyking> I've planned for my death for a while, ginga
    [21:30] <ginganinja> that you did not expect
    01[21:30] <loudkirbyking> I'm always one step ahead
    [21:31] <ginganinja> and you think I have'nt?
    01[21:31] <loudkirbyking> And you think I killed you in Randomness without a plan first?
    [21:31] <ginganinja> we are both prepared to die
    [21:31] <ginganinja> welll look how well that paln worked out
    01[21:31] <loudkirbyking> I hated seeing my name on the lynch area
    [21:31] <ginganinja> plan*
    [21:31] <ginganinja> join the club
    01[21:32] <loudkirbyking> My anger is because there was 5 errors in one day
    [21:32] <ginganinja> you no nothing
    01[21:32] <loudkirbyking> All of which made me resort to another plan
    [21:32] <ginganinja> know*
    01[21:32] <loudkirbyking> Which, yes, I do have all planned out
    [21:32] <ginganinja> except
    [21:32] <ginganinja> the lynch on you
    01[21:32] <loudkirbyking> If I were lynched, we still would win with my plan
    [21:32] <ginganinja> yeah GL with that
    01[21:32] <loudkirbyking> Just a matter of odds, addition, and plotting
    [21:33] <ginganinja> but
    [21:33] <ginganinja> I don't take kindly to being backstabed
    01[21:33] <loudkirbyking> I don't take kindly to people holding info
    01[21:33] <loudkirbyking> Spill it.
    [21:33] <ginganinja> if the Belmonts win
    [21:33] <ginganinja> I don't mind
    01[21:33] <loudkirbyking> You knew I was BG before Yesterday
    [21:33] <ginganinja> my faction has lost anyway
    [21:34] <ginganinja> like I said earlier
    01[21:34] <loudkirbyking> Hey, you can still win this. I've made a plan I COULD share with you that could get you to win
    [21:34] <ginganinja> my faction is kingmaker
    [21:34] <ginganinja> oh wow
    01[21:34] <loudkirbyking> I know you had to know I was BG before yesterday
    01[21:34] <loudkirbyking> Matter of logic
    [21:34] <ginganinja> gee
    [21:34] <ginganinja> let me trust you again
    [21:34] <ginganinja> and watch me get backstabbed
    [21:34] <ginganinja> what a master plan?
    01[21:34] <loudkirbyking> So, why the heck DIDN'T you lead a lynch on me yesterday?
    01[21:35] <loudkirbyking> If you knew I was a bg, why not?
    [21:35] <ginganinja> well
    [21:35] <ginganinja> I told you why
    [21:35] <ginganinja> if you don't yet know
    [21:35] <ginganinja> then it sucks for you
    01[21:35] <loudkirbyking> I know why
    [21:35] <ginganinja> cause its in this log
    01[21:36] <loudkirbyking> I so know why. But, alas, even when you help, it's so easy to backstab right back
    [21:36] <ginganinja> and yeah
    [21:36] <ginganinja> thats why I am hardly going to run to help you again
    01[21:36] <loudkirbyking> Yeah, hey, y'now what? Let me die tonight
    [21:36] <ginganinja> my faction is kingmaker
    01[21:36] <loudkirbyking> I don't care
    01[21:36] <loudkirbyking> In fact, overkill me!
    [21:36] <ginganinja> and you really think
    [21:37] <ginganinja> that I would help you
    01[21:37] <loudkirbyking> I don't stinking care. I'll tell my own faction to kill me
    [21:37] <ginganinja> lol wow
    [21:37] <ginganinja> I doubt that
    01[21:37] <loudkirbyking> You never know
    [21:37] <ginganinja> its not going to happpen
    01[21:37] <loudkirbyking> Probably not
    [21:37] <ginganinja> see
    01[21:37] <loudkirbyking> But, start asking around after
    [21:37] <ginganinja> I told you
    01[21:38] <loudkirbyking> Watch my faction, they'll say, after I tell them to kill me, that I did say that
    [21:38] <ginganinja> so
    [21:38] <ginganinja> I can tell my faction to kil me
    01[21:38] <loudkirbyking> I'm not bluffing about it, I'll tell them to use the kill on me
    [21:38] <ginganinja> does not mean it will happen
    [21:38] <ginganinja> bullshit
    [21:38] <ginganinja> if your faction kills you
    [21:38] <ginganinja> .......
    01[21:39] <loudkirbyking> I don't care anymore. My name won't show up on the death tonight
    01[21:39] <loudkirbyking> Just watch and see.
    [21:39] <ginganinja> won't?
    01[21:39] <loudkirbyking> I told you, I can have a bpv item
    01[21:39] <loudkirbyking> I knew I'd die
    [21:40] <ginganinja> yeah yeah yeah
    [21:40] <ginganinja> nice bluff
    01[21:40] <loudkirbyking> Belmonts would know soon, so I can plan easy
    01[21:40] <loudkirbyking> It's so easy to plan things
    [21:41] <ginganinja> yeah well
    [21:41] <ginganinja> its easy to screw with your plans
    01[21:41] <loudkirbyking> Not quite
    01[21:41] <loudkirbyking> Every great mind has a back-up
    [21:41] <ginganinja> you are human
    [21:41] <ginganinja> (like me)
    [21:41] <ginganinja> therefore
    [21:41] <ginganinja> falliable
    01[21:42] <loudkirbyking> I'm human? I'm a kirby, duh lol
    01[21:42] <loudkirbyking> All kidding aside
    01[21:44] <loudkirbyking> Glad to see you die tonight
    [21:44] <ginganinja> hey np
    [21:46] <ginganinja> im ready to die
    01[21:46] <loudkirbyking> Hey, I will o
    01[21:46] <loudkirbyking> *to
    01[21:46] <loudkirbyking> Except, hey, I won't
    01[21:46] <loudkirbyking> I will die, and I won't. Figure that out
    [21:46] <ginganinja> nah
    [21:46] <ginganinja> cannot be bothered
    01[21:47] <loudkirbyking> I told you, I won't die tonight
    [21:47] <ginganinja> heard it
    01[21:47] <loudkirbyking> Think I'm bluffing? Look at the facts
    [21:47] <ginganinja> you are bluffing
    01[21:47] <loudkirbyking> Prove it
    01[21:47] <loudkirbyking> I'm not bluffing.
    [21:47] <ginganinja> tonight?
    01[21:48] <loudkirbyking> I won't die tonight
    [21:48] <ginganinja> so like....
    [21:48] <ginganinja> I can kill you?
    01[21:48] <loudkirbyking> Tonight in game
    01[21:48] <loudkirbyking> Go ahead
    [21:48] <ginganinja> good enough proof?
    [21:48] <ginganinja> K then
    01[21:48] <loudkirbyking> Tomorrow night, feel free.
    [21:48] <ginganinja> why wait
    01[21:48] <loudkirbyking> Belmonts will take out my BPV item
    01[21:49] <loudkirbyking> Then you kill to finish
    01[21:49] <loudkirbyking> Simple as that
    [21:49] <ginganinja> wow
    [21:49] <ginganinja> o.k
    [21:49] <ginganinja> I will do that
    Session Close: Mon Nov 08 22:56:46 2010

    Session Start: Wed Nov 10 18:48:19 2010
    Session Ident: ginganinja
    01[18:48] <loudkirbyking> Told you you'd die
    01[18:48] <loudkirbyking> And that I wouldn't
    [18:53] <ginganinja> hey
    [18:53] <ginganinja> I knew that
    [18:53] <ginganinja> made preparations
    01[18:53] <loudkirbyking> Hey, I knew you'd do that
    [18:53] <ginganinja> in chess
    [18:54] <ginganinja> its called a sacrifice
    [18:54] <ginganinja> or somethimes
    [18:54] <ginganinja> times*
    [18:54] <ginganinja> a poinsoned pawn
    [18:54] <ginganinja> in other words
    01[18:54] <loudkirbyking> You realize now Belmonts win
    [18:54] <ginganinja> a concealed trap
    [18:54] <ginganinja> well
    01[18:54] <loudkirbyking> You had a chance if you'd played right, but now if I'm lynched, Belmonts pretty much auto-win
    [18:54] <ginganinja> that was your choice
    01[18:54] <loudkirbyking> It wasn't mine!
    01[18:54] <loudkirbyking> It was ipl
    [18:56] <ginganinja> hey look
    [18:56] <ginganinja> you guys had a choice
    01[18:56] <loudkirbyking> I talked to them, tried to change their mind, but I couldn't
    [18:56] <ginganinja> kill a Castelvanian (small on numbers)
    [18:56] <ginganinja> or kill a belmont
    [18:56] <ginganinja> and you guys
    01[18:56] <loudkirbyking> If pole hadn't screwed up, we'd win
    [18:56] <ginganinja> decided that a grudge
    [18:56] <ginganinja> was worth more than winning the game
    01[18:57] <loudkirbyking> Pole screwed up
    [18:57] <ginganinja> so really
    [18:57] <ginganinja> I feel like I won
    01[18:57] <loudkirbyking> Hey, I DID win
    [18:57] <ginganinja> you had the game in your hands
    [18:57] <ginganinja> to win
    [18:57] <ginganinja> and you lost it
    [18:57] <ginganinja> over a petty grudge
    01[18:57] <loudkirbyking> I won, I don't care
    01[18:57] <loudkirbyking> ...Watch this
    [18:58] <ginganinja> ..o.k
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:57] <@loudkirbyking> Guys
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:57] <@loudkirbyking> Change back to Aura Guardian
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:57] <@loudkirbyking> Okay, Bunny's the only one here
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:57] <@loudkirbyking> Never mind lol
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:57] <@loudkirbyking> Change of plans, Aura Guardian is my new target
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:58] <@loudkirbyking> Oh, you did vote
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:58] <@loudkirbyking> Bunny, ginga's not the target
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> [14:58] <~BunnyMaster> why?
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:59] <@loudkirbyking> Ginga promised me a trial run. He'll get his bg to guard me tonight, and if I die, he'll be auto-lynched
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[14:59] <@loudkirbyking> And through a long talk we had, he's planning on helping us kill Belmonts
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> [14:59] <~BunnyMaster> what?
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> [15:00] <~BunnyMaster> so, he is bging you....
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> [15:00] <~BunnyMaster> that is pointless
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[15:00] <@loudkirbyking> I can't bg myself
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> 01[15:00] <@loudkirbyking> ipl is guarded
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> [15:00] <~BunnyMaster> you dieing doesnt matter
    01[18:58] <loudkirbyking> We had a plan, which involved me taking a fall, but pole screwed it up with his errors
    [18:58] <ginganinja> don't see it
    01[18:59] <loudkirbyking> This shows I did try to change it
    [18:59] <ginganinja> no
    [18:59] <ginganinja> that was about the lynch
    [18:59] <ginganinja> I am talking about the
    01[18:59] <loudkirbyking> Yes. I tried to tell them to change back
    [18:59] <ginganinja> night kill
    [18:59] <ginganinja> lol
    01[18:59] <loudkirbyking> We HAD to kill you at this point
    [18:59] <ginganinja> this is very funny
    [19:00] <ginganinja> you hit me instead of hitting a belmont
    [19:00] <ginganinja> and now go running to me saying
    [19:00] <ginganinja> congrats
    [19:00] <ginganinja> the Belmonts win
    [19:00] <ginganinja> remember
    01[19:00] <loudkirbyking> Because someone decided to gang up on me
    [19:00] <ginganinja> YOUR faction stabbed me in the back
    [19:00] <ginganinja> YOUR faction targetting me
    01[19:01] <loudkirbyking> YOUR team suddenly turning
    01[19:01] <loudkirbyking> I know RaRe persuaded Pidge
    [19:01] <ginganinja> well
    01[19:01] <loudkirbyking> You were going to turn right there
    [19:01] <ginganinja> I know you thik somethings occured
    01[19:01] <loudkirbyking> And strike us right there
    [19:01] <ginganinja> but thats postgame shit
    [19:02] <ginganinja> quite happy now
    [19:02] <ginganinja> this just made my day
    01[19:02] <loudkirbyking> Oh, postgame I will flame like mad. I'm done bein' nice, because of two errors pole made, THAT cost us everything
    01[19:03] <loudkirbyking> Don't think it was your stupid plans that did it. The logic was absolute, until the evidence was shown to be faked
    [19:03] <ginganinja> lol
    [19:03] <ginganinja> lol
    [19:03] <ginganinja> lol
    [19:03] <ginganinja> lol
    06[19:03] * loudkirbyking casts meteor on ginga
    [19:03] <ginganinja> ROFL
    01[19:03] <loudkirbyking> I might be working with you, but I'm not gonna be nice in a game
    01[19:03] <loudkirbyking> This is mafia. Shoot or be shot. I'ma shoot you now
    06[19:04] * loudkirbyking smiles
    01[19:04] <loudkirbyking> Now, goodbye
    Session Close: Wed Nov 10 19:04:41 2010


    Yep, I lied a whole lot, and don't care. Anywho, that's my story, like it or not.
  13. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald The art of the possible
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Visual Media Head

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,801
    Semi-competent is better than not right? Regardless, over the next few mafia I'll work to be better. But in celebration: I DIDN'T GET MOLED!!!!! Though with our mole being killed so quick there wasn't much of a chance. I still have accomplished my goal, so whatever. On that subject, von you put jigs and I on the same team on purpose didn't you?

    On the subject of the game: I feel semi-competent is a fair description. I didn't screw anything up and I planned a few things, so I'm happy. I wish I could have done a little more, but there wasn't much for me to do.
  14. Acklow

    Acklow

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    3,081
    Certainly an enjoyable game. I will edit this more if I find time.

    Edit: We can't see what Pidge's Spreadsheet looks like, would it be possible to remove the privacy setting, please?

    Here's our Spreadsheet for those who want to see it: The Belmont Spreadsheet

    N0 was an interesting night. I quickly got into contact with Phantasia, hoping to find out what he knew. At first I thought I was twins with him, but soon I figured that this game was going to be similar in team style as FF3 was. By Day 1, I knew everyone's roles in our factions and I quickly began work on finding out who our mole was. I had two suspicions: Phantasia and Yeti. During a conversation on our secret channel on IRC (Yeti, Phantasia, Jiggly and I were the only ones present), we started talking about our plan on collaborating with the Space Pirates in order to backstab the Castlevanians. Jiggly mainly addressed the plan to Yeti and I because I was obviously leading, and Yeti was the only other active member in the chat. We spoke about how we thought that the Castlevanians and the Space Pirates were working together against us, and how we wanted to see if we could somehow get the Castlevanians to side with us. Later on, I was contacted by Bunnymaster who said some obviously strange things. I relayed this to Jiggly, and our plan was set: Take out Yeti. If Yeti was telling the truth, then we would know it because she wouldn't die. If she wasn't, well too bad, we took out the mole. Here were the logs that decided the fate of Yeti:
    Show Hide


    I was also one of the earlier people who figured out that the factions were set up 7-7-7-1-1-1-1. This set up meant that we would be able to work with at least one of the neutrals, which is what I set out to work on.

    Night 1, I inspected Aura Guardian, in hopes of finding at least one neutral, and bless my luck, we did. I instantly went to work, contacting him and at first I hoped that none of our team's win condition's clashed with him. At first, I thought it didn't, but then one of them said something about needing AG dead, so I threw that chance away. Instead, we worked on double crossing AG and using him to our advantage, which worked.

    N2, I inspected Pidge because I had reasons to suspect that vonFiedler would give more "experienced" players the neutral roles, thus I had a suspicion that either LKK or Pidge would be either neutral we were looking for. Turns out he was. In fact, his role didn't clash with any of our living members, which meant we could work with him and use his role to our full advantage, which somewhat did. I originally hoped to live long enough to develop a trust between me and Pidge so that he could become a full Belmont supporter, but alas, I never got the chance because I died mid-game.

    Anyways, that's all for now, I'll put up more later.
  15. polelover44

    polelover44

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,406
    Aight so in case you were too lazy to read our spreadsheets, here were Samus's items:

    the Grappling Hook was with Fate at the beginning, and was the thief item
    the Varia Suit - whole faction rogue, ipl had it iirc
    the Morph Ball - really helpful in case somebody with one of Samus's items died, RaRe had it
    the Ice Beam - I think we all know what this did
    then the Super Missile is a kill item, given by us when Samus has the other four items.

    The kills also had priorities in list format, they went like so:
    Samus
    Space Pirates (Nights 2/3, 5/6, etc.)
    Castlevanians (Nights 1/3, 4/6, etc.)
    Belmonts (Nights 1/2, 4/5, etc.)
    Werewolf

    Metroid's kill didn't matter, because as long as Metroid had successfully latched on the previous night (i.e. it hadn't been hooked/bg'd), the kill would work no matter what went on around the person the next night..

    EDIT: The only mistake I think I made was having to un-persuade two of the persuades (jiggly and bunny iirc). Pidge's kill not going through wasn't my error it was that his target was guarded last night. And Pidge was never persuaded.
  16. Captain Bagman

    Captain Bagman

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    214
    Early in the game, I pretty much took orders from Crux and didn't get much information from him. After N1 when two of our guys died (and Quagsire's and my identities were momentarily revealed), including danmantincan whom Crux said was not to be trusted and almost certainly the mole, I went into a panic and contacted the rest of our team. I miscounted how many people we should have, and came up with some inane theory about how Athasan was a mole and Crux was a Belmont straight up. This led to me leaking some information to Quagsires, before LKK pointed out the flaws in my theory and I realized Quagsires must be the mole.

    After the failed Spiffy lynch D2, I asked Quagsires for advise on whether we should try to kill Spiffy or Crux "the mole". He told me we should get Crux. I assumed he thought I still believed he was clean and hoped this would stop the Castlevanians from trying to interfere with using our kill on him. We let LKK get the win here as we wanted to kill a Castlevanian, but assumed Spiffy would be protected, and at this point we weren't sure who the others were.

    After the Castlevanians were massacred N2, we knew it was time to go after the Belmonts. I was amused by Spiffy's attempts to bully us into lynching Acklow, as this is what we wanted to do anyway. This was hijacked by a movement to kill the wolf which was fine with me as the Neutrals in this game were mostly a source of unpredictability and could not be trusted.

    Then Spiffy was godkilled, which was one of the major turning points in the game. After this everyone seemed to assume the Castlevanians were SOL. Then N3 it seemed like half of the game was redirected to Acklow which seemed a bit broken in combination with the BPV. But it wasn't anything too bad as we managed to get Aura Paladin lynched after a grand debate (though I don't think votes were actually swayed by any of the arguments).

    Crux died the next night which we did not expect. We were thinking it would be BunnyMaster. We were mostly pleased that our enemies were attacking (in our opinion) our weakest remaining roles.

    D5 was chaos and another major turning point. At first I wanted Aura Guardian dead because he had the potential to screw with our plans in unpredictable ways and we knew he hadn't infected many of us. But then IPL convinced me that we had the votes to lynch ginganinja. The plan was to get Castlevanians down to one member in order to block their kill with impunity and then outvote the Belmonts with our silencer and mayor item. But Pidge decided to tie the vote (still not sure why he did this) and our plan went to hell.

    N5 I get killed which I was not expecting. We had worked out that if Belmont used their martyr on me and killed LKK, there was nothing we could do to stop it. So we figured they would do this. For some reason they decide to martyr LKK and kill me, which could have been stopped if I had hooked the martyr, coolking (whom we had inspected), or the killer (which I had correctly guess was jigglypuffers as she had nothing else to do and would be expected not to be night targeted). For some reason, IPL had me convinced to hook RaRe555, the Castlevanian persuader. I SHOULD have realized that the only reason I wouldn't have been martyred is if I was being killed. A big misplay on my part, but also a misplay by the Belmonts. This probably could have won the game for us.

    I did think at this point that the Castlevanians had a chance to get overlooked. Their persuader was the most powerful role left in the game save for IPL, the silencer with the semi-BPV and my +1 vote.

    Space Pirates probably should have won the game as I think we had the most information and role power mid-game. Unfortunately we made costly blunders in the attempted ginganinja lynch and my failure to save myself.

    I can see how the alternate win conditions were supposed to promote disharmony within factions. Danmantincan's "I need to be leader" condition got him branded as a possible mole. LKK wanted to kill the mole, which was pretty pointless once you figured out who it was. But where this experiment was less successful is that Space Pirates did better when we worked together anyway and should have had a strong opportunity to win.

    Another thing about the win conditions was
    some of the wins were much harder to achieve. I needed my faction to not only win but to win BIG especially since I had a power role. Where as other people only need to kill a mole, or for a specific neutral to win.
  17. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,852
    Sooo I subbed in the night Spiffy died and I was frozen. I didn't read my role PM carefully and assumed I couldn't win so I went with a fuck-it attitude. Von gave me some helpful tips, which he said he gave ipl. So I already knew who was in the faction. Anyway, day after I get subbed in. ginga instantly give me access to his spread and it had multiple people listed down as shared, so it confirmed the suspicion of Jig being mole. ginga tells me that belmonts have our info on SPs. I would've helped him out, except I saw this huge column of ANDs and ORs. I saw my name next to it, and then I saw Zorbees/Raverist/Rare/whoever's name was on there. Ginga was being annoying at the time, requesting for the Cross, but by then, I already had a plan on how Rare and I could win with our alternate WCs.

    N5: I priority raise Ginga to prot me. I don't think Rare was on at the time. Rare scavenges the Stopwatch. We ally with the SPs. I make the gutsy sacrifice and priority raise rare to send him to kill Jig. The next night, I use the Cross and priority raise myself (prevents the hook) and kill Pidge. He and I both win... and I actually wrote that on the spreadsheet. :s

    So eventually the ginganinja died, which wasn't that bad since now I wouldn't have to lie about making a fake role PM that the Cross "went missing." We confronted the SPs and told them that we were basically harmless neutrals and we didn't need them dead.

    BUT on Night 6!

    Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnn
    some people tried to send motivational speeches to me, which somewhat worked. I felt bad since the other Castles lost expecting me and rare to move on. So my soft spot/tendency-to-not-be-a-dick caused a backstab to the SPs. We used the virtually finished Spreadsheet (with a minor mistake) to plan out. The biggest problem was ipl who had a mayor item, and more importantly was the silencer. Kirby was not a problem since if I'm alive, we don't give a fuck since we kill through you. Belmonts were no threat since Jig would have some crappy ability as it looked like with Quagsires and whoever-the-hell-was-moling-the-Belmonts. Phantasia's Ice Beam was such a nuisance, but I figured if we planned extensively, the Ice Beam wouldn't really bother us.

    We needed Rare alive at all costs. I realized that Rare's power is better off at day, and mine would be better at night. So we traded items. He got the Cross and I got the stopwatch. The new plan was to eliminate the SPs altogether since there would be one less kill to worry about.

    Anyway, we had told the SPs that we plan to kill Jig since that was who Rare's target is. The idea was for us and SPs to kill off the belmonts, but we planned on backstabbing them and killing ipl who was the most dangerous threat. (Again, who gives a shit about an enemy BG who can't block your kills and an inspector when there would be 8 players in the game?)

    Unfortunately though, Rare had already been offline, and von told me he never updated his target PM. (FUCK!) Belmonts told rare before he went offline that Pidge was going to kill Bunny. However, he gave lkk the Tyrfing (who I suppose was given to him or he scavenged? :s) and persuaded ipl to selfvote, which is a wasted persuasion.


    Day 7

    Show Hide
    BULLSHIT SPREADSHEET WITH NO BPV ITEM! (I know it's a rogue item, but we referred to it as a BPV since if only Belmonts were left, Rare could use this as a second BPV)


    Thank god that the fuckup happened, else we would've lost. So we collaborated with Belmonts to lynch IPL. We could still kill though, and if Pidge targeted Bunny, Bunny couldn't do shit. and with our priority kill, we can wreck lkk and eliminate him. I told Rare to use his cross. We won. :D

    Anyway gg

    Sorry I can't really give player shoutouts since I didn't really play actively.
  18. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,318
    Early game, I find myself a neutral, and guessed that Jigglypuffers42 had the best chances of survival: good enough, but not high-profile enough. After explaining that the infect was not lethal, I latch myself onto the Belmonts.

    Aside from my infects, which were unfortunately random, mostly, I managed to, by virtue of being neutral-ish, find out information about various factions. I decided that in case the Belmonts failed, I'd help their rivals by ousting Jig as the mole to a few people, so that everyone wouldn't hate me for allying with them. I only got to use one copied inspect from BM, and tried to use it to move the lynch off of me, but ... well, it sort of worked.

    Basically, people tried to negotiate with me, I tried to find out stuff, I was too rigidly allied with the Belmonts. I've filed this game as a learning experience for how to play neutrals.

    Towards the end, I was handing out everything I knew, which, since I only had one copied inspect, and what people told me, wasn't too much. But I did get told about LKK as the BG.

    As for the roles:
    I think my infect was somewhat underpowered. If I'd had a few more enemies, and if my infect was a bit stronger, I'd have had a bit better chance. "Stronger," as in, two infects every other night, or it can spread twice, not once. Or something like that.

    The wolf, if he truly had the lowest priority for kill, had only a chance from items, and a rather chancy one at that (or a neutral, perhaps, or the person who could win if he won). IMO, wolves should always have some sort of edge, like fast kills, or some way to survive, etc.

    I think the neutrals should all also have been moling a faction. That would have evened the odds for them a bit, while still keeping it a bit harder.

    I'm running out of ways to express my thoughts here, excpet for "good game" and the like, so I guess I'll stop for now.

    And vote Phantasia's Ice Beam for MVP, now where's a Thunderbolt?
  19. danmantincan

    danmantincan

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,683
    Well, time for my incredibly long summary of how I played.

    I had contacted Captain Bagman fairly early, to try and unite our team, but it became apparent that crux had taken on that role. I was hesitant to trust him at first, but ended up giving him my role information. I didn't spend a lot of time talking to my team, but I did mention that I thought Quagsires was trying to mole the Space Pirates.
    I also wonder how I was so "insistent" about being the leader that it would cause my faction to distrust me. I never once said that people should vote for me to be the leader, the closest thing would have been either when I told Bagman that I wanted to unite our faction or when I was talking to crux and only mentioned that my win condition was to be voted leader 3 times, and I even voted for crux to be the leader the one day I was alive.
  20. Spiffy

    Spiffy

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,053
    I'm really not in the mood to type much so I'll probably add later.

    I never said I played a good game, but the hosts have no right to comment about my play if they sucked too. :)

    The first instance where I was screwed over when dead Yeti said something along the lines of: "Since 2/3 of the people in the game are against Spiffy then there's no reason not to lynch him". Did she say something like this when one of her teammates was being lynched? Of course not. This was very low of Yeti and it pisses me off that she would stoop so low because she was pissed off that she died. This should have been a ban from the chat room at the very least. Maybe even a temporary ban from playing mafia at all. I even contacted the hosts about this and got no response.

    Then polelover44 thinks it would be funny to point out all the flaws in my argument when I was desperate not to get lynched. Yeah I was dying after that one. LITERALLY :D ... But really I think polelover wanted to have some type of grudge against me after I like messed around in the chatroom?

    And finally, the one that pisses me off the most: I got godkilled for not following my restriction. Well King Emerald doesn't follow HIS restriction and gets off scott free. This just shows how fucking impartial the hosts were this entire game against me. I know I'm not a very good host either, but really, you may want to practice on impartialty and following your own rules.

    As for players, I will list some that I thought did a pretty decent jobs/ones that I just want to comment on.

    loudkirbyking: I couldn't fool him; he knew I was the wolf from Day 1. *giggles*

    Captain Bagman: On a more serious note, despite him bagging on me in his most recent post, I thought he played a very good first game.

    ginganinja: fuck you

    Fatecrashers: I always liked Fatecrashers, he's a nice guy.

    Crux: The guy who thought I didn't notice that your inspector and bodyguard were conveniantly not on the list? Ever heard of deductive reasoning? ;)

    Quagsires: Got a lot of information from the Space Pirates, so good job. :)

    Acklow: I may have to hold off on our game because I'm going on vacation and will probably get grounded soon. :(

    Hosts: lol

    BYE GUYS! :D

    Oh and by the way:

    <UncleSam> wait so what thats what i just commented on lol
    <UncleSam> so if they godkill you they should do the same for him
    <UncleSam> but they shouldnt have godkilled you in the first place

    ^ I LIKE citing UncleSam. ;)
  21. Yeti

    Yeti

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,721
    I shouldn't have died but:
    a. LKK was probably the most paranoid mafia player I have ever seen and refused to claim.
    b. I had Crux talk to BM talking to Acklow, when I should have been scripting all of BM's lines so nothing slipped. He revealed a piece of information only I or Phantasia would have known that I told to Crux, who must have told it to BM who told it to Acklow.
    this is why showing your teammates full logs of your conversations is so crucial ~_`
    c. polelover ended the night early. Had he waited until the deadline, I would have been able to tell LKK, who wasn't on at the time, to BG me. Apparently he'd had other orders but it was SO gd obvious nobody was going to kill BM and I had the suspicion someone or other was going for me. I pretty much guessed LKK was our faction's BG after Crux's spreadsheet had every other Space Pirate's role filled in but we were missing a BG/LKK's.
    I love idlers they give me the maximum amount of time to plot and in this case ending the night early led to my death when I should have stayed alive. I admit I should have written every single word BM said instead of trusting it to go through 2 people as well.

    Though I'm really not sure why Acklow killed me, it seems like it'd have been a better idea to feed me false information and keep me around for voting purposes than to off someone who should have been voting with him.
    Not to mention the Belmonts probably would've stood a better chance with me at least pretending to attempt to work with them.
    He had told me every detail about his faction anyway, it should've been obvious I'd already relayed it out so silencing me was ineffective.

    I figured out very early on that Quagsires was the mole because he had no night role. I assumed jigglypuffers didn't have one either, but considering her night role only affects herself, I maintain that the moles all could not target or affect other users in any manner. Which is how you'd find your mole.

    Would've been nice to play a bit more and had I stayed around, SP almost assuredly would've won with the Belmonts in a closer second than they were.
    Alas I didn't get much of a chance to talk to anyone on my faction sans Quagsires, Crux and LKK. The mole, the guy who tried to namelynch me, and a super paranoid.

    Speaking of, why was I told the Castlevanians' mole? That seems awfully hard to hide should he share the information with his faction, and then the Belmonts' mole notices my name. I was very careful to not speak with anyone directly except like 3 people but 8|

    Anyway next Standard game I play someone remind me to script everything I have someone else say so no secret information slips.
    And paranoia does not lead to a well-united faction.

    Holy piss Spiffy whine more. How old are you, 5??
    Like I said and most people agreed, what I stated was something that ANYONE could have deduced from looking at the game's opening post and the thread. It wasn't hard at all to determine you will be needed dead by at least two factions, three if you are a neutral simply by viewing the game design.
    Not to mention none of my teammates were being lynched ?_? It was logical reasoning for someone to lynch you if they were a Belmont, SP, or neutral at that point in the game. It was also what I had indicated to Crux that I wanted to happen (you dead asap) while I was still alive because I was almost positive you were the inspector. Additionally, it was what I had hinted to Acklow and the Belmonts as a good means of ensuring the SPs would not flat out decimate them - working together to off you. Cry more because you made yourself a prominent Castlevanian and the other factions wanted to even the numbers out?
    Seriously. Your means of defending yourself were piss poor at best. You made it so incredibly obvious you were the inspector it was pathetic. You either broke your freeze, lied about what night whoever it was was inspected on, or you were the inspector. Your defending statements made no sense and you brought too much focus on yourself by being a whiny prat about everything.

    Protip: don't lynch a guy a faction will know is with them by saying he's a neutral ~_~
  22. Captain Bagman

    Captain Bagman

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    214
    I see what you did there. :D

    I thought your threats and bluffs were legitimate tactics that probably work against weaker and new players. I was referring to when you threatened to reveal my role and faction if I did not follow your lynch, where 1) We would have wanted to lynch Acklow anyway, and 2) There was no reason for me to kowtow to your demands since you could just reveal me anyway if you wanted.
  23. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,852
    Actually, Spiffy does those "threats" and bluffs to everyone. I apologize for not subbing in for him earlier and inconveniencing you instead.

    By the way, how exactly did you guys assign the roles? Randomly or was there a specific thought process?
  24. tape-type

    tape-type

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,488
    Stopped reading here.
  25. polelover44

    polelover44

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,406
    It was pretty random, tbh. Spiffy got Dracula because he asked for a role with an lpv.

    edit: Actually, we tried to balance out the more well-known players and newer players among the factions.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)