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Mollux (Analysis) QC 3/3 GP 2/2 (COMPLETE)

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by nyttyn, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    [title]
    Mollux
    [head]
    <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/media/dex/dex.css" />
    <script type="text/javascript" src="http://cap.smogon.com/web/cap_template.js"></script>
    <script type="text/javascript" src="http://cap.smogon.com/web/cap_database.js"></script>
    [header]
    [page]
    <script type="text/javascript">
    document.write(strategyTabs("Mollux"));
    document.write(topHeaderInfo(Mollux()));
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    <h2>Overview</h2>

    <p>Mollux is much more than your average cute Pokemon. Sporting 95 / 83 / 105 defenses, a great set of resistances, an unusually high Special Attack stat of 131 for a defensive Pokemon, and an amazing ability in Dry Skin, it can be hard to take down easily, especially in the rain. Not only that, but it also counters practically every Water-type Pokemon out there other than Psyshock Starmie and Rock Blast Cloyster. Its resistances to Bug-, Fire-, Fighting-, Grass-, Ice-, Poison-, Steel-, and Water-type attacks are very appealing, leaving it taking half or less damage from a huge number of attacks. It is also a significant boon against VoltTurn teams, having both the special bulk to tank Volt Switch and a quadruple resistance to U-turn. It is also a great answer to top-tier threats such as Scizor, as few of them can break past Mollux's defenses and typing. On top of all of this, Mollux also has access to the monumental, game-changing moves of Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, and Toxic Spikes. Just one of these moves would be good enough and make a Pokemon worth using, but Mollux has access to all three. Finally, it also has access to Recover, which is a godsend for any defensive Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Unfortunately, Mollux also has some pretty nasty flaws, such as taking extra damage in the sun each turn due to Dry Skin and having only a one-half Fire resistance thanks to Dry Skin and being weak to both parts of the EdgeQuake combo, thus losing to the fearsome Terrakion almost every time. To make matters worse, it takes a whooping 25% every time it comes onto the field when Stealth Rock is up. However, if you can look past these weaknesses, you'll see a cute lava lamp of a companion who will be happy to brighten up your battles, one who will endure attacks for you all day so long as they aren't Ground- or Salt-type!</p>


    <script type="text/javascript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Toxic Stall";
    set.move[1] = ["Toxic", "Toxic Spikes"];
    set.move[2] = "Protect";
    set.move[3] = "Flamethrower";
    set.move[4] = ["Rapid Spin", "Recover", "Substitute"];
    set.item = "Black Sludge";
    set.ability = "Dry Skin";
    set.nature = "Modest";
    set.evs.HP = 252;
    set.evs.SpA = 24;
    set.evs.Spe = 232;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
    </script>

    <p>This Mollux set attempts to stall out the opponent by using a combination of Toxic, Dry Skin, Protect, and Black Sludge. Thanks to the fact that Mollux will be recovering a huge portion of its HP every turn from the combination of Dry Skin; Black Sludge; and possibly Recover, as well as the fact that it can block attacks every other turn with Protect, the opponent's Pokemon will be hard-pressed to even scratch it.</p>

    <p>The first move, Toxic, brings a lot of passive damage to the table; it plus entry hazards and damage caused by teammates really pressures the opposing team. You can also use Toxic Spikes for a more high-risk, higher-reward option. Protect allows you to block almost every single form of direct damage for a turn, allowing Mollux to get even more recovery while scouting the opponent's team. Flamethrower is used in the third slot to avoid being Taunt bait and to roast Scizor and Ferrothorn. What you run in the fourth slot is your choice; Rapid Spin is preferred due to how important removing entry hazards is. Recover can be used to tank more and heavier hits. Substitute allows Mollux to, if you can predict properly, stall almost indefinitely in the rain with the Toxic + Substitute + Protect combo made famous by Gliscor. </p>

    <p>This Mollux set should only be considered for a rain team due to its reliance on Dry Skin recovery. It should also not be considered if you lack a way of dealing with sun, as in the sun Dry Skin will actually cause Mollux to take damage every turn instead of recovering It's also important to watch out for Heatran while using this set, as it completely walls this variant of Mollux. In addition, specially defensive Jirachi can take hits from this set all day long in the rain, and Bronzong threatens to annihilate Mollux with Earthquake.</p>

    <p>It is important to note that this Mollux is perfect in Fire / Water / Grass cores on rain teams, which is always handy thanks to the synergy such cores bring to the table,. Finally, it is important to note why the EVs aren't set to the standard 252 / 252 / 4 used on most Pokemon sets: they maximize bulk and allow Mollux to outspeed uninvested base 100s as well as Adamant Breloom. The rest are thrown into Special Attack for just a touch more power.</p>

    <p>Good partners for this set include Gyarados, who really enjoys Rapid Spin removing Stealth Rock; Tentacruel, who is useful if you do not wish to use Mollux as a spinner; Politoed, who is absolutely mandatory due to Drizzle; and Ferrothorn, who can absorb Ground- and Rock-type attacks as well as set up Stealth Rock.</p>


    <script type="text/javascript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Tank";
    set.move[1] = "Fire Blast";
    set.move[2] = ["Thunderbolt", "Thunder"];
    set.move[3] = ["Hidden Power Ice", "Hidden Power Water", "Hidden Power Grass"];
    set.move[4] = ["Recover", "Rapid Spin"];
    set.item = ["Black Sludge," "Life Orb"];
    set.ability = "Dry Skin";
    set.nature = "Modest";
    set.evs.HP = 252;
    set.evs.SpA = 252;
    set.evs.Spe = 4;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
    </script>

    <p>This Mollux set attempts to be an offensive tank by using a combination of firepower and recovery to punch holes in the enemy team and soak up attacks. Black Sludge and Dry Skin recovery is very nice to have, as is access to Recover, which will keep Mollux healthy throughout the match. Life Orb is an alternate option, which is actually usable thanks to Dry Skin recovering the recoil damage that the item inflicts.</p>

    <p>The first move is Fire Blast, which is useful as a high-powered STAB move, but Flamethrower is also an option if Fire Blast's shaky accuracy is unappealing. Thunderbolt should be used if you are not using this Mollux in the rain; however, if you are using it on a rain team, then Thunder is the superior option. Your choice of Hidden Power will depend on what you want Mollux to kill; Hidden Power Ice is great if you're afraid of Dragon-types, Hidden Power Water takes care of Ground-types and Heatran, who would otherwise wall this set, and Hidden Power Grass handles Rotom-W and Gastrodon. Finally, Recover is the preferred move in the last slot for keeping Mollux healthy, but if your team is hurting for a spinner, then Rapid Spin is a solid option.</p>

    <p>Good partners for this set include Tentacruel to remove Stealth Rock, which Mollux detests if it is not running Rapid Spin; Politoed, which is almost mandatory due to Drizzle; and Ferrothorn, as it can absorb Ground- and Rock-type attacks as well as set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    <script language="JavaScript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Choice Scarf";
    set.move[1] = "Fire Blast";
    set.move[2] = ["Thunderbolt", "Thunder"];
    set.move[3] = ["Hidden Power Ice", "Hidden Power Water", "Hidden Power Grass"];
    set.move[4] = ["Trick", "Eruption", "Sludge Wave"];
    set.item = "Choice Scarf";
    set.nature = "Modest";
    set.evs.HP = 252;
    set.evs.SpA = 252;
    set.evs.Spe = 4;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
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    <p>With a workable Speed stat and a very high Special Attack, Mollux can make for a decent revenge killer with a Choice Scarf set. It can also absorb Toxic Spikes, which is a huge advantage over other Choice Scarf users. Fire Blast is the primary attacking option, as its high power plus the usefulness of Fire-type STAB is a great combination. The second move will depend on if you plan to use Mollux in the rain; Thunder is preferred if you are, and Thunderbolt should be used in all other scenarios. They are used to nail Water-types. The third slot, Hidden Power, will depend entirely on what you need Mollux to hit; Ice if Dragon-types are a concern, Water if Fire types such as Heatran are particularly threatening, and Grass if Gastrodon and Swampert are a thorn in your side. Hidden Power Ice is usually the best option, however, as Dragon-types are a real menace in this metagame. Finally, the last slot should usually be Trick to cripple walls and get around Blissey and Chansey; however, Eruption can provide an insanely high-power attack, though it does require Rapid Spin support to be effective. Sludge Wave can also be utilized as a backup STAB option.</p>

    <p>Good partners for this set include Tentacruel to remove Stealth Rock, which Mollux detests if it is not running Rapid Spin; Politoed, which is almost mandatory due to Drizzle; and Ferrothorn, as it can absorb Ground- and Rock-type attacks as well as set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    <script type="text/javascript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Rapid Spin";
    set.move[1] = "Rapid Spin";
    set.move[2] = ["Recover", "Protect"];
    set.move[3] = ["Stealth Rock", "Toxic Spikes"];
    set.move[4] = ["Lava Plume", "Thunder"];
    set.item = "Black Sludge";
    set.ability = "Dry Skin";
    set.nature = "Calm";
    set.evs.HP = 252;
    set.evs.SpD = 252;
    set.evs.Spe = 4;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
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    <p>This Mollux set has amazing special bulk and surprising physical bulk due to its resistances. To make it better, Mollux is also immune to both burn and Toxic, two big threats to defensive Pokemon. All of this, in addition to benefiting from rain while being a Fire-type, makes it a great support Pokemon on rain teams. Sadly, it also has a weaknesses to the common EdgeQuake coverage combo that is found on many Pokemon. Due to the fact that it enjoys excellent regenerative capabilities in the rain, this variant of Mollux should typically only be considered for teams with a user of Drizzle on board. However, Drought teams also enjoy this variant of Mollux, as it provides them with a spinner which can go toe-to-toe with their arch-nemeses, Water-types. While this may seem counter-productive at first due to Mollux taking damage due to Dry Skin every turn on Drought teams, absorbing Water-type attacks is far too great to pass up.</p>

    <p>The first move, Rapid Spin, is the most important part of the set, as it removes all entry hazards from Mollux's side of the field. The second slot can be filled by Recover if you wish to have reliable, immediate recovery or Protect if you wish to scout out the enemy team or attempt to stall them out. The third slot should typically contain some sort of entry hazard, either Stealth Rock or Toxic Spike, but if you already have a hazard setter, feel free to use a status-inflicting move such as Will-O-Wisp or Toxic. The final slot is occupied by Lava Plume so that Mollux isn't total setup and Taunt bait, but Thunder is an acceptable alternative given Lava Plume's low Base Power.</p>

    <p>Good partners for this set include Gyarados, who really enjoys Rapid Spin removing Stealth Rock; Politoed to set up rain; Ninetales for use on sun teams; and Ferrothorn to absorb Ground- and Rock-type attacks as well as set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    <h2>Other Options</h2>

    <p>While a Choice Specs set can be utilized for the sheer power it brings to the table, Mollux both slow and lacks in the coverage that makes for an optimal user of Choice Specs. Final Gambit works as a decent surprise on most sets due to Mollux's high max HP and reliable recovery, but it's nothing more then a gimmick the second time around. Air Balloon is tempting but a horrible option, as while it does enable Mollux to avoid killer Earthquakes, it keeps Mollux from absorbing Toxic Spikes, which is a great asset. Finally, Illuminate should never be considered, even on sun teams, as Dry Skin's absorption of Water-type attacks is far too useful to pass up.</p>

    <p>Mollux also does not need very much team support, as it typically does the supporting. However, as its biggest three checks; Ground and Rock-types, as well as Heatran; all share a common weakness to Water-type attacks (with very rare exceptions such as Gastrodon), it is advised to run Mollux with some sort of water type. If you are using it on a rain team, then Politoed fulfills this role just fine. Tentacruel also makes for a good supporter, as it has access to Rapid Spin as well, a move which is an godsend to Mollux, who does not enjoy taking entry hazard damage in the slightest. Other good team mates include Pokemon that enjoy entry hazards being on the enemy's side of the field while requiring them being removed from theirs, such as Dragonite and Volcarona.</p>

    <h2>Checks and Counters</h2>

    <p>Any strong Ground- or Rock-type attack will quickly spell an end for poor Mollux, with Dugtrio, Mamoswine, and Terrakion being notable offenders. Dugtrio can trap and kill Mollux in a single hit, Mamoswine doesn't take terribly much damage from any move except Hidden Power Water thanks to Thick Fat and a Ground typing, and Terrakion just ruins its day with a strong STAB Stone Edge and can even use it as setup fodder. None of them can switch into a Lava Plume safely, however, without risking being burned. Heatran is another hard counter to Mollux, as it can wall any attack Mollux can throw out easily and 2HKO at worst with Earth Power. Gyarados can use sets which lack Electric-type attacks as complete setup fodder as well; sets with Substitute can even avoid lucky burns. Calm Mind Latias can also use Mollux as complete setup fodder, doesn't particularly mind being burned, and can Recover away any damage Mollux tries to inflict. Defensive and Substitute + Quiver Dance Volcarona can easily use Mollux as setup fodder and don't even have to worry about burns. Choice Scarf variants suffer from being slower then most +1 setup sweepers, who can kill Mollux with powerful Rock-, Psychic-, and Ground-type attacks. Blissey and Chansey both completely hard wall any set that lacks Toxic or Trick. Any Pokemon with access to a moderately-powerful Hidden Power Ground will also bring a swift end to Mollux's HP. Finally, any Dragon-type with Dragon Dance and Substitute can use Mollux as setup fodder, with Substitute allowing it to avoid burns.</p>
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2013
    DHR-107 likes this.
  2. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Not really much of a skeleton, that

    - That list of bullet points needs to actually go somewhere, it's a bit pointless just floating around in limbo. All that looks like it would fit perfectly well under the overview. Except for the bit about Trick Room in the sun; that would go under Other Options

    - Note: CAP Analyses don't use the standard Smogon formatting. Here's what the set should look like:

    <script language="JavaScript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Utility";
    set.move[1] = "Rapid Spin";
    set.move[2] = ["Recover", "Protect"];
    set.move[3] = ["Stealth Rock", "Toxic Spikes"];
    set.move[4] = "Lava Plume";
    set.item = "Black Sludge";
    set.ability = "Dry Skin";
    set.nature = "Calm";
    set.evs.HP = 252;
    set.evs.SpD = 252;
    set.evs.Spe = 4;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
    </script>

    Bear in mind also that CAP analyses don't have Set/Additional Comments, it's all in one huge lump.

    - Explain the set. This seems obvious, but kindly point out what Rapid Spin does (VERY briefly) and more importantly, why you would use it over other defensive Rapid Spinners such as Tentacruel
    - Also explain why you'd use this over Heatran (ie. Rapid Spin / Recover / Tspikes absorption / Fighting resistance / Water immunity / etc)
    - Note that it counters pretty much every Water-type out there except Psyshock Starmie, as well as blocking Scizor, Breloom, Cloyster without Rock Blast, etc
    - Mention that it's immune to both burn and poison which is a significant advantage for a defensive Pokemon
    - Explain why you would choose Protect over Recover - I imagine it's for scouting although I personally would never be without Recover on a set like this one
    - Explain the relative benefits of SR and Tspikes - SR is vital if you have nobody else on your team to set it up, but if you do, then Tspikes adds to the switch pressure
    - Finally, point out why Lava Plume is the best STAB move for the burning to offset slight physical vulnerability
    - Honestly I'd say that Tbolt or Thunder could go over your entry hazard if you already have SR because Lava Plume on its own is weak as hell, especially under rain - also you need Tbolt to spin against Taunt + Shadow Ball Jelli (dunno how common that is though)

    - Explain the EVs and nature. Provide examples of what Mollux can and can't survive with that spread. Give alternative spreads with different targets if possible.
    - Maybe explain why Black Sludge > Leftovers v.a.v. Trick because both approaches are feasible
    - Mention that Air Balloon is bad because it prevents you from being able to absorb Toxic Spikes even though you get the extra immunity

    - Weather you're using this in is crucial
    - Great answer for other rain teams for sand or rain teams
    - Provides useful Water immunity for sun teams while boosting Lava Plume but they have better spinners and aren't so troubled by rain teams generally as far as I can tell
    - Dry Skin better than Illuminate even on sun teams as that Water immunity is too good to pass up
    - SubDD Dragonite can set up on you without fear, as can SubSD Terrakion and SubDD Gyarados (under rain) - variants without Sub need to watch for Lava Plume burns but whatever
    - Steel-types good for getting rid of Dragonite with only Dragon Claw, and hopefully you can burn all other kinds... and I guess Gliscor stops Terrakion, sort of
    - Latios, Latias and Hydreigon exist - Latias can CM up and Psyshock you to hell, Hydreigon can Earth Power you
    - Get a Scizor or Tyranitar or specially defensive Jirachi or something
    - Watch out for defensive Volcarona
    - Block it with Heatran
    - Dugtrio... yeah can't do much about this
    - Water-types good to beat opposing Heatran and can be an emergency stop to Dragons
    - Can't switch into Tornadus if you take SR damage - see above SpD Jirachi or Heatran or something

    - Spin support valued by stuff like Dragonite, Tornadus and RainVolc on rain teams or just about everything on a sun team
    - Sand teams aren't typically overtly hazard-weak but absorption of Tspikes is always appreciated
    - Entry hazard support appreciated by set-up sweepers such as aforementioned Dragonite, Terrakion and Landorus, or pretty much everything on a rain or sun team

    ------------------------------

    - I'd honestly think a Tank set is worth a mention purely because it does have advantages over Heatran as a Tank depending on the team and as shown by Tran it's an effective build - plus the above build is weak as hell under rain, which is annoying when that's why you put it on your team

    - Something like:

    <script language="JavaScript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Offensive";
    set.move[1] = ["Fire Blast", "Flamethrower"];
    set.move[2] = ["Thunderbolt", "Thunder"];
    set.move[3] = ["Hidden Power Ice", "Hidden Power Grass", "Hidden Power Ground"];
    set.move[4] = ["Stealth Rock", "Recover"];
    set.item = "Black Sludge / Life Orb";
    set.ability = "Dry Skin";
    set.nature = "Modest";
    set.evs.HP = 252;
    set.evs.SpA = 252;
    set.evs.SpD = 4;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
    </script>

    - Go over description in the same way as above

    [OO]

    - Specify what a Scarf set would look like - Eruption/Fire Blast, Thunderbolt/Thunder, HP etc., Trick/Sludge Wave
    - To that end, mention Expert Belt - I ran into a lot of people during the playtest who would calmly switch their Ferrothorn into Mollux after I'd KOed their Politoed, expecting me to be Scarf-locked
    - Mention Scarf + Trick + Final Gambit
    - Mention Twave, WoW, Acid Spray, Heal Bell

    [C+C]

    - Mention specific Pokemon
    - CM + Recover Latias
    - QD Volcarona with HP Ground
    - Defensive Dragonite - watch out for burns / HP Ice if Multiscale broken
    - Tyranitar / Terrakion - burns
    - Heatran if not running HP Ground
    - Anything with a strong EQ - Landorus, Salamence, Hippowdon etc
    - DUGTRIO
    - Starmie with Psyshock if not running Thunderbolt
    - anything else I've missed
  3. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
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    In response to bmb, you don't need to make the sets look like that. When we get this GP checked, I can do the HTML to have it coincide with the Java used for the CAP site. So no worries on that front; it looks just fine right now, in my opinion.

    In general, I think the Mollux analysis that we had up for the playtest was awesome. The first set, Specially Defensive, is the definitive Mollux set, in my opinion. I'd gear your Rapid Spin + Hazard to look more like it, especially with changing the name and slashing WoW / Thunder Wave alongside the hazards. Choice Scarf and Toxic Stall both deserve their own sets, in my opinion. All out attacker could potentially get one, but I didn't really use it during the playtest so I have little experience on how good it actually was.

    I'll make more comments when you start fleshing this out a little more. bmb eluded to this a bit: the importance of weather in Mollux' role must be clear. Rain factored in significantly to how successful it was in any given match because of the ridiculous amount of HP you could recover with Black Sludge + Dry Skin. Just something to think about.
  4. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    NEIN

    Just noticed this and wanted to remind you that the analysis should reflect the playtest - so no Genesect, Keldeo or other BW2 stuff

    I'm sure you know this, just posting again so it's clear
  5. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
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    Bump. Finished this. Need C&C and stuff. Anyone who has a notable set, speak up now and say why it's notable or foreve rhold your silence.
  6. srk1214

    srk1214 The Wuthering Heights of Billionaire Gay Dinosaur Fiction
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    Acid Spray needs to be mentioned at least somewhere on the page. It's been too long since I've played with an Acid Spray set, so I'm not sure it deserves a set too itself for even a slash for the CAP meta, but it did fairly well in the playtest. At the least it needs to be in OO.
  7. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Photorealistic Seagull (PSG)
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    A few factual points of order.

    The intro should also mention Mollux's 131 base SpA, which greatly differentiates it from a number of regenerative defensive Pokemon that don't have nearly that kind of firepower.

    Dry Skin reduces Mollux's fire resistance but does not nullify it. Mollux's net fire resistance is 0.625x rather than 0.5x. This makes Mollux interesting for being the only non-Dragon Pokemon to take reduced damage from Fire, Water, AND Grass attacks.
  8. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
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    Acid Spray doesn't deserve a OO mention IMO. I've used it, I've theroycrafted it, it's quite frankly disappointing on every conceivable level. Too disappointing to even be mentioned. Mollux has 4MSS as it is; it doesn't have the slot to dick around with Acid Spray. Poison is a bad attacking type, Acid Spray is a worse attack, 40 BP won't get you far, and it doesn't have the speed to abuse the SpDef drop, nor would swapping in another mon be of any real help when the opponent can also swap out and undo that work. Plus, c'mon, with that turn you could've gone for a burn, recovered HP, set up rocks, spin, all sorts of noise.

    True, should probably mention that. It has a great level of firepower for a defensive mon.

    Also that might be useful to note, but seems more like a bit of trivia.
  9. Spiffykins

    Spiffykins

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    I'm glad someone cleared that up already. Mollux takes practically nothing from fire moves in rain. The slightly reduced resistance really isn't a big deal.

    The bit about Dry Skin recovery is kind of misleading, too. It says it gets double lefties thanks to Dry Skin, which is true for Dry Skin alone. With lefties/black sludge it gets triple. The way it's written could be read to mean that it's like Rain Dish.
  10. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
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    Changed to G/P since I'm pretty comfortable with the current sets, intro, etc after feedback.

    edit: shit this was my 500th post.
  11. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
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    Mollux has a pretty unique typing, as per the concept, so it would be good to list all of its Bug, Fighting, Fire, Grass, Ice, Poison, Steel, and Water resistances/immunities here in the intro, as it's an impressive list. I think you should also clearly describe Mollux's three major metagame-relevant selling points: 1) countering Water-types, 2) immunity to damaging status (Burn/Toxic) in conjunction with Recover, and 3) its general effectiveness against VoltTurn cores like Scizor/Rotom-W (i.e. the 4x resist to U-turn and Special bulk enough to switch into most Volt Turns). I know you mentioned that first point, but I think explicitly calling out Politoed and Rain teams in particular would give people the right impression of Mollux's advantages while extolling the virtues of Dry Skin.

    Mollux's drawbacks are much much more so the Stealth Rock and EdgeQuake weaknesses than the Dry Skin vs. Fire moves/Sun stuff. A SR-weak defensive Poke is a tough sell, and Rock/Ground coverage is really common on offensive teams (multiple members of the same team can be expected to carry one or both of these move types). Also that last sentence doesn't need to be its own paragraph, and watch for capitalization on ability and move names like Dry Skin and Psyshock.
    I personally don't think Mollux can both Spin and set hazards while effectively countering Rain all in one set, but w/e. Lava Plume is only good for its Burn chance, and it doesn't even 2HKO SpD Ferrothorn or physically defensive Skarmory in the rain. Without Toxic/Thunder/bolt, it isn't doing much to Water-types either, besides PP stalling. I would slot Toxic over Toxic Spikes (maybe even primary to SR), since Toxic Spikes were not even a thing in the playtest, thanks to Mollux, and the entry hazard itself has taken a pretty big hit this gen in terms of usefulness. You could possibly also slash Flamethrower into that fourth slot for 2HKOing all Ferrothorn and physically defensive Skarmory while OHKOing CB Scizor w/SR (Mollux is faster) in the rain. Even in the rain, Mollux needs its Fire moves to take on Ferros, Forrys, Jirachis, and Scizors, so slashing Thunder in there looks like trying to do too much at once. Again, all imo.

    Regarding the set comments, I think this set in particular should stray away from looking like it depends on Drizzle support, as it is equally useful to Sand and weatherless teams for checking Rain while maintaining utility (and Sand/weatherless teams don't kill its primary STAB like rain does). You could mention something about Protect + Drizzle vs. Recover + weatherless/Sand teams or using Protect to rack up Toxic damage. Without Toxic/Thunder/bolt, it can't get past Jellicent, period, so definitely mention that, as Jelli is the main Spinblocker in OU and will Taunt Mollux into Struggling. Any one of those three moves will make it waste all of its Recovers or force it out so Mollux can Spin. Also you should delve into that FWG comment and list off some examples of good teammates like Rotom-W and Ferrothorn or even AmoonBro (was that a thing yet/back then?). Also note some good teammates for handling offensive Heatran, which switches into this Pokemon easily (Rotom-W comes to mind!).
    Okay this set is right on the money regarding weather; Drizzle support is crucial and so Politoed should be mentioned by name. You should mention why the EVs are the way they are (pretty sure it's to outrun the 36 Spe pixies and Adamant Breloom). Also it might help to run some calcs on stuff like CM or SpD Jirachi in the rain, so people can know what they're getting into with that Drizzle "support." Flamethrower is the attack of choice for a reason, so you should mention how a stray Burn from Lava Plume could complicate things for this particular set and how Fire Blast is too unreliable for a stall set with its low PP.

    When I read the set comments, it looks like the first paragraph is comprised of two sentences that are saying the exact same thing. Immediately following that are another two sentences in a whole new paragraph that together repeat the first paragraph without adding much at all. "Toxic stalling" is something familiar to competitive Pokemon players; it doesn't need to be explained three times. You could mention Gliscor as a partner because the two have just incredible synergy by typing and both are able to hit Steel-types super effectively (but watch out for Earth Power + HP-Ice BalloonTran). Also there's that FWG comment again that could be more specific, and a Heatran solution should probably be emphasized as really really important.
    This all looks very good. I wonder if you could find instances where Thunder O-2HKOs things that Thunderbolt couldn't; that would be worth an explanation. I'm a little surprised to see no mention of Sludge Wave anywhere in the analysis; it's a decent alternative STAB, but I won't push that point, as the Hidden Powers are all well and good. I like the thought of Hidden Power Water in rain; is it worth neutering that Fire STAB? Also, my personal opinion is that this set could alternatively run Life Orb and Recover along with Fire Blast, since Mollux is actually quite a powertank, but that's just me. Again, mentioning specific Pokemon for teammates would be a great addition.
    OO is good, although I find when describing things as "horrible options" those things should probably be left out of the analysis altogether. There are small spelling and capitalization errors, such as "Erruption" and "ground or rock type." Checks and Counters is thorough. Overall good job. I shall return with more critique if this analysis even needs it by the time you've edited in the specifics.

    Hope this helps!
  12. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
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    Added in most of Korski's notes, ready for G/P.
  13. Birkal

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    I'm going to have another go at this in terms of QC just to make sure we're all on the same page. If Korski has some notes to say after this (or anyone else), then please make them known. Also, you can't really put this into GP without a moderator's permission. This is pretty much a non-issue now though because we'll have an analysis coordinator in the near future. However, it's something to note!

    The part in red is kind of awkwardly stated, and not necessary anyways. Just put "when utilizing Black Sludge" or something at the end there. I think you're also undermining Mollux in this paragraph. It has a lot more features to offer than you listed. It has Rapid Spin and access to Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock for hazard control. Furthermore, it gets Recover, which is an incredibly good move for any defensive Pokemon to have. Its importance should be emphasized.


    Good. It might be wise to say that Landorus is a threat to Mollux on VoltTurn teams, but I think most people will get the idea. Do what you think is best.

    Heatran needs to be in this paragraph. It's probably the most important counter to Mollux and it got a lot of usage during the playtest, if I recall. I don't think many people ran Hidden Power Water, so it's important to know that Heatran can wall Mollux hard. Instead of the Stealth Rock line, you can just say that it's weak to hazards, with the exception of Toxic Spikes. You can also note that even non-STAB Hidden Power Ground can do a number on Mollux, even when it's investing bulk. I think your first sentence is a run-on, but GP will fix that.

    That last line is just wrong -__- Mollux doesn't do well in any other form of weather if it's running Dry Skin. I mean, you can run it on a Sand team in order to counter Drizzle teams pretty solidly, but I think that last sentence really gives off the wrong message. Don't sacrifice competitive accuracy for a cute concluding sentence to your introduction. If you want to make it cute, sure. Just make sure it's accurate!


    You might want to emphasize that Mollux's unique typing also makes it a great choice for Drizzle teams here.

    You don't need the Leech Seed bit; that's implied. You should point out that Recover is better if you're looking for more immediate recovery, while Protect is best if you're hoping to stall out your opponent or do scouting. Also, it should be noted that Lava Plume is great on rain teams because it gives you a good shot against Ferrothorn, as well as a chance to burn against threats like Terrakion and Garchomp on the switch in.

    This isn't really necessary. People know about FWG core and will realize Mollux's role in that. If you take my suggestion, you'll also put how this set is best on Drizzle teams in the first paragraph. Therefore, this paragraph isn't needed.


    I'd remove mentions of Recover from this paragraph, because it's not really a staple for Toxic stall. Furthermore, I think Toxic Spikes should be slashed in with the first set. Thanks to Team Preview, it's easy to see if your opponent is tspikes weak, which means you can set up with Mollux and stall their whole team. Toxic is admittedly the better option, but Toxic Spikes should at least get a mention, if not an outright slash for the first move.

    This needs more detail. Mention that Toxic, in tandem with entry hazards from a teammate, can really bring on the residual damage. You don't really need to explain what Toxic or Protect do... those are implied. When you add in Toxic Spikes, it should be mentioned alongside Toxic. Explain that Protect doubles your recovery while causing even more damage to the opponent. The fourth slot needs some more explanation; explain WHY they are ranked the way they are. Rapid Spin is first because removing hazards gives it extra utility on a stall team. Recovery allows for greater hits to be tanked. Substitute is interesting to mention because with Protect, you can stall indefinitely (or at least until PP runs out) when Drizzle is up.

    Alongside Heatran, lots of Steel-type Pokemon can stop this set. Flamethrower isn't doing much to SpD Jirachi in the rain and can threaten with Earth Power; Bronzong is the same way with Earthquake.

    Fine. These two sentences can probably be combined with the previous paragraph.


    WHERE IS LIFE ORB. That's a huge boon to using a tank set in Drizzle; you can shake off LO recoil in the rain. I didn't realize people preferred Black Sludge on this set; I always assumed LO was the standard. If you really think Black Sludge was best, then go for it, but LO deserves the slash.

    Get rid of Hidden Power Ground; people only used that during the playtest for the surplus of Mollux around. Grass takes care of Gastrodon too, which is a common threat to rain teams.

    I don't think you need this paragraph at all. You've already stated FWG before. Rain is definitely preferred here, in my opinion. It's not worth mentioning other weather. Maybe I'm alone here, but I don't think I'd run this set outside of rain.

    Nix Hidden Power Ground. I am not a fan of that fourth slot, because I think you're whack if you're not running Trick. But I guess it makes sense. Hrmph.

    Again, I wish you would rank some of these things. HP Ice is preferred because otherwise Dragons wall you pretty solidly. Water is best for overall coverage, and HP Grass for Rotom/Gastro. Again, I think Trick needs to be emphasized as the most important move. It gives you a way to at least tango with special walls like Latias and Blissey

    I'll talk about this more later, but you can use Illuminate on this set quite successfully; I think it should be slashed after Dry Skin. Mollux is a pretty good scarfer with its special attack, good typing, and Trick. It's good to note that it is probably Mollux's most versatile set and can fit on a variety of teams. If you're running non-Drizzle, Illuminate is definitely an option. If you're Drought, it's preferred.

    The point of Other Options is to provide other options, not say what's a "horrible idea". Try to gear the paragraph with that mentality. Say: "this is a pretty good idea, but here's where problems arise". For example, Choice Specs is pretty tempting because of Mollux's impressive 131 base special attack. Note that Mollux is pretty slow though, and it will often get picked off by faster threats. Illuminate should be considered, especially on Sun teams, where I feel it is the preferred option.

    Note that Mollux does like additional support to keep of hazards; it doesn't enjoy them at all. Also note that Mollux is great at providing support to offensive mons that need hazards on the opponent's side and need them removed from yours.

    Gyarados sets up on sets without Electric-type attacks, not specifically Thunder. I don't see Blissey / Chansey in here either; they threaten any sets that don't use Trick. Again, mention that Hidden Power Ground can wreck Mollux.
  14. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
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    aaaand done ow mollux no longer looks like a name

    so yeah unleash the QC hounds.
  15. jas61292

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    Well, I don't have much to say on the moves on the sets themselves, but I think the descriptions of the sets make Mollux out to be a lot different than it actually was. First off, I think the set order needs to be switched up. Rapid Spin Mollux is certainly decent, but definitely not the best it has. From my own experience, and looking back at the playtest thread, I would say that between serious 4MSS and its Rock weakness, it has a much harder time as a dedicated spinner than it does in other roles. Honestly, I would think this should be the last set in the analysis as it simply is a comparitively mediocre set.

    Both on that set and as a more general note, I would suggest looking at this DetroitLolcat post. A lot of what you have in this analysis makes Mollux out to be a god of Rain teams, but in reality, it was generally a more useful Pokemon on Sand. While it can counter common rain Pokemon, we have to remember that it would prefer not to be in Rain if it can help it due to its Fire STAB. Its not bad in rain, for sure, but in sand it can take the role of two different Pokemon, while in rain, it can only really do one, and faces stiff competition for that one role. For the more defensive sets, and especially the Rapid Spin one, Tentacruel usually does them all better on a Rain team.

    On the Tank set, is there any real reason for Flamethrower being used over Fire Blast? I know you say it "usually gets the job done", but do you have any specific calcs for it? If not, I would make Fire Blast the primary STAB slash. Its combination of power and good accuracy make it a superior move if you have no specific reasons to choose one over the other.

    Finally, the last paragraph of the Scarf set doesn't seem to fit. I'm guessing it is just left over from something else you wrote and forgot to delete, but I just thought I'd point it out. As you say in OO, even on sun teams Dry Skin is superior. With that said, I would suggest removing the lluminate slash in the set. It is simply a lesser choice on just about any team.
  16. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
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    Addressed all of these about a month ago, I guess I never got around to saying I did.


    so uh yeah I did.
  17. Elevator Music

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    (Sorry!)

    This is pretty much ready for GP. I'd say you only really need one more person to look this over (basically, you can consider it QC: 2/3 thanks to the input from Korski, Birkal, and jas). I've VMed DetriotLolcat, Pwnemon, ginjaninja, and capefeather, all of whom participated in the Mollux playtest. Not all of them need to look this over, just one or two (though if they all want to, that's cool too!!). Once one of them gives the final "stamp" we can push this into GP.
  18. Jukain

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    Just saying, it should be <script type="text/javascript"> instead of <script language="JavaScript">. The attribute "language" is deprecated, so it basically does nothing. Using the "type" attribute is more correct.

    EDIT: Your paragraphs are also wrong. You should put <p> at the start of each paragraph and </p> at the end.
  19. ginganinja

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    Gastrodon is also another OU water type that comes to mind which beats Mollux or at least gives it a little trouble. I think Gyarados can do ok as well if it avoids sets with electric attacks. Maybe reword that line or something idk.

    Not found. Please add Keldeo into this analysis as its on like every fucking team and Mollux walls it pretty well so gg.

    You already mentioned Gyarados, might as well mention Dragonite which is really the only other one that commonly uses DD + Sub (IIRC). Also Mention Kyurem / Kyurem-B since it can easily set up a Substitute, and can go for a Hone Claws boost, or just nail you with 2/3 attacks. Earth Power isn't exactly uncommon either (more on Kyurem) which Mollux should be switching out of. Lastly, they don't have DD, but Latias / Terrakion both are not uncommon sub users, and can threaten to set up. Sub CM Keldeo might also work (against the Toxic Stall set) under rain, so beware that I guess.

    On the subject of Latias, these other 2 mons don't boost but Hydreigon and Latios also give you a fair amount of grief. Hydriegon is like, impossible to counter so dw about that one 2 much, but LO Latias and Latios ARE exceptionally common, and Psyshock has spiked in usage (both on Starmie and Lati@s) due to the ever common Breloom, Keldeo, Tentacruel and Terrakion so Mollux needs to watch out for this. Generic Steel types such as Scizor, Jirachi, Ferrothorn I guess all do ok, and Tyranitar can destroy Lati@s fairly easily (idk something like Tar / Mollux / Keldeo / Celebi / Landorus / Steel would be a fairly common team IMO) so that's worth mentioning.

    You NEED to mention its use on sun teams. I myself found it very useful on my sun team, since it gave me a spinner that didn't get utterly raped by rain teams, while still being able to function under sunlight. It might not be the BEST weather for Mollux (which is debatable no matter how you look at it) but sunlight needs to be mentioned more often.

    Potentially mention Mamoswine in Checks and Counters. Thanks to Thick Fat, it doesn't care so much about a fire attack, and is immune to Electric Attacks, while setting up SR or hammering at it with Ground Attacks.

    Re- word Defensive Volcarona using this thing as set up bait. While technically its true, Molllux can Toxic it and (under Rain) attempt to stall it out with Protect / Recover Volcarona potentially wins eventually, but I hardly think its sweeping. A better example would be Sub Quiver Volcarona (which isn't a terrible option either on sun OR Rain teams (it then runs Hurricane + BB) or Chesto Rest Volc, both of which don't mind Toxic so much. Offensive Volcarona (which runs Modest + LO) is also fairly troubling since it has the initial power it needs at +1, to nuke through teams with a +1 FB (Mollux could potentially stall if rain was up).

    Personally, when I look at this analysis from a OU QC perspective, I think it needs mention of teammates somewhere, and OO isn't really the correct place for them. To be honest, I would have them under the comments of the set or something, but CPA might do things differently. I would heavily recommend adding teammates to the above Mollux sets unless CAP has a policy discouraging this in which case feel free to disregard.

    Just some examples of teammates I guess are the following:

    Gothitelle isn't a terrible partner due to the fact that it can trap and kill Tentacruel, Venusaur, Toxicroak. I guess Dugtrio can also do this, but Gothitelle has a better chance at winning. Targetting these pokemon is fairly significant since they all absorb the Toxic Spikes that Mollux might enjoy setting up.

    Celebi is an awesome partner to Mollux. You mention the FWG core but I didn't see many examples of grass types being mentioned, and Celebi is one of the best grass types in the meta atm. Acting as a Landorus-I check, (which could possibly set up on Mollux if circumstances were right) and all that jazz, its not a terrible choice. Can also Pass CM boosts (or NP ones) to Scarf Mollux, which is absolutely terrifying if sun is up. Celebi also has access to STAB Psychic, to discourage poison type switch ins.

    For your Water type partners, Keldeo (which partners excellently with Celebi) and Politoed are potentially the best ones. With Rotom-W and Gyarados getting special mentions to their ground immunity.

    Speaking of ground Types, you potentially want mons that can handle its common weaknesses. Landorus-T, Latias, and Skarmory are all fairly bulky pokemon that are immune to Ground attacks, and can potentially take a Rock Attack better than most. The aftermentioned Keldeo, Ferrothorn, and Garchomp are all decent options if you really need a Rock Resist. Hippowdon is also a good option if you want to use Mollux on a Sand team as Mollix can handle most of Hippowdons vulnerabilities.

    Landorus-I is a pretty decent partner that works well with Mollux. Mollux can take the water and ice attacks directed at it, while Landorus can nail pokemon such as Terrakion and Heatran with Earth Power. Landorus / Celebi / Keldeo is a pretty common and effective core in OU so together its not a bad core.

    As Far as sun teammates go, I would suggest Cresselia as one of the better ones, as well as the obvious ones such as Venusaur and Ninetales. Cresselia is one of the best Landorus-I counters in the game, and functions very well on sun teams, so its very much worthy of consideration. Dugtrio should obviously be mentioned as it traps and kills Heatran, the nemesis of sun.

    I don't know if CAP fully has an AC or no, but I would still mention Thunder somewhere (even if its just in OO), as it gives you the ability to threaten Jellicent (which blocks your spin), as well as nailing Starmie and discouraging the tentacruel switch in (2 of the more common spinners in OU). Also hits Xatu I guess although Thunderbolt would be a better option in that case due to it commonly being seen on sun teams.

    AS A GENERAL NOTE

    Please explain your EV spreads (I skimmed and may have missed it but still). For example, why is a defensive set using Modest, why is it running x amount of speed etc etc. This is stuff the newbie CAP player has no idea of and therefore potentially needs to be mentioned somewhere.

    I think I covered most things, might add some more if I feel like it.
  20. jas61292

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    If I am not mistaken, Keldeo was not released at the time of the Mollux playtest. Since analyses are made for the metagames of the playtests it makes sense that it would not be there.
  21. nyttyn

    nyttyn Neko Miko Reimu, ai shiteru
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    This would be correct. In addition, Psyshock was not a terribly common move back during the playtest, and Kyurem-B was not legally released, Shadow Tag Gothielle was not released, while I will mention Hydriegon I literally never saw one during the playest so even back then he had seriously fallen out of favor, Celebi only has come into favor recently as a Landorus-I check and was not considered terribly great back during the Mollux meta, Landorus-T was not released and Landorus-I did not have Sheer Force, Garchomp was Ubers at the time, Cress was shit on by the meta at the time, Sand kind of suffered without their two key power players (VolTurn was pretty much the most common sand team), and finally Gastrodon was sucktown back then but I guess it was used enough to deserve a mention.
  22. srk1214

    srk1214 The Wuthering Heights of Billionaire Gay Dinosaur Fiction
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    Yeah Gastrodon was total sucktown. With Mollux around, no one was using Gastrodon to deal with Water Types, since Mollux already did that, while also offering Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, and Will-o-Wisp. I concur about none of those other threats really seeing much use in the playtest either (some because they didn't exist yet), least of all Hydreigon. I literally didn't face a single one either.
  23. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    [qc]3/3[/qc]

    lets get this shit done
  24. Cherub Agent

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    are teammates supposed to be mentioned in other options?
  25. Box

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    Just mentioning this, but Mollux doesn't resist Volt Switch does he? You mentioned that he does.

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