Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[Blumenwitz]

it's bad matchups are in low demand due to the types themselves being bad

Psychic doesn't really have any bad matchups, does it?

http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html

According to this, since February all of its matchups have been, at worst, even.

 

[Death God Anubis]

Psychic doesn't really have any bad matchups, does it?

http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html

According to this, since February all of its matchups have been, at worst, even.

Just because a type has all neutral matchups doesn't mean its broken. It just means it is pretty good and has pretty good mons, which Psychic has plenty of. It doesn't mean overpowered, as Psychic has always been a top type.

 

[Entei]

Well, Here are my opinions on the matter at hand:
Ground: While yes, in the past couple of months I have seen Ground rise in usage in the metagame quite a bit, and destroying most Monotypes with Smooth rock+Sand rush. Ice, Fairy, Rock, and Poison is what struggles most with it the most. Although with smooth rock gone, who's to say that wouldn't happen anyways? 5 turns of sand is enough to break the core's of those types on its own, and sand can easily be restored to finish the job. If you were going to nerf ground to help types like that, it wouldn't be so much of a nerf, but delaying sweeps against certain types a bit.
Now lets focus a bit more on excadrill. People argue that with sand up it's a complete monster that can barley be stopped and I agree with these statements. But with 110/60/65 Bulk it's really hard to come in on anything. You have to predict really well to bring it in right so that you take no damage, or sac something and then bring it in right after. Another thing is Excadrill in sand is a check to threats that ground wouldn't even be able to deal with. Mixed infernape, thundurus, Kyruem on dragon teams. Also, Excadrill can be walled UNLESS gravity is up, which takes some prediction if you know what your doing. 1 wrong switch and you can lose your Excadrill, or your Lando by trying to set this up.
We ban things that centralize the meta fully to where its too much, I believe people are making too much of a big deal about sand rush as a whole, and are trying to destroy a really balanced type, one of the most balanced types in the game. After The Greninja, Metagross, and Zapdos ban from their respective types, I feel as a Monotype Player and a part of the community that the meta is fine at this moment of time, and nothing really dominants anything else as badly anymore. With this, I'm going against the ban of smooth rock or a nerf to ground as a whole.

I am literally yet to read any reasonable argument on banning Lando-i that isn't "it's being suspected in OU" or "some types don't have a switchin".

The first argument is more a matter of our tiering policy, that we no longer use OU's banlist nor use their suspects to advocate our own. In thinking of reasoning for why something should be a potential suspect, you should pretend OU as a whole doesn't exist, and focus merely on it's prowess in Monotype, which conveniently enough brings me on to the second argument.

This is Monotype, if there was ever a type that had a switchin for everything, it'd be broken as all hell and would see incredible amounts of usage, in fact I'd go as far to say that it's a good thing for Monotype that no such type exists because otherwise it'd be a very boring and one dimensional metagame. Even so, it's difficult to find a type outside of types that are already weak to Ground that actually have issue switching into this. If your argument is that Steel or Fire can't switch into this(they can anyway but lets ignore that) then what difference will banning it make? Will we ban the other things that can click EQ / Rock Slide and not have a switchin from these types? Forgive my exaggeration but I feel the point needed to come across because I'm not really seeing this argument tbh.

My argument against a Landorus ban is that bans should be done in high moderation, when needed rather than whenever possible. I also feel the principle behind any ban should be aimed at slight nerfs if possible, rather than dramatic nerfs. Removing Landorus from Ground would devastate the type, I don't really care what anyone says, Nidoking is not at all an adequate replacement and I feel not only would you not be addressing the possible issue of Ground if it is deemed broken in the metagame, you'd be destroying it's viability as a type entirely and further establishing a line between good types and bad types.

Also why is there nothing on how good Psychic is at the moment? It has incredible variety in team builds, more than enough offensive / defensive options to sweep / wall the metagame, it's bad matchups are in low demand due to the types themselves being bad and it is just in general, a very low risk / high reward type to ladder with currently. This isn't even mentioning the Baton Pass Psychic going around which is basically an autowin against any team not sufficiently prepared for it in the hands of a decent player. Food for thought.

Im gonna adress this post to both of your arguments , individually.

PK-Kaiser , you mentioned in your post the following sentence:
"and destroying most Monotypes with Smooth rock+Sand rush. Ice, Fairy, Rock, and Poison is what struggles most with it the most."

Let me start with, you forgot Electric.
----
Later, you said: "People argue that with sand up it's a complete monster that can barley be stopped and I agree with these statements."
Your next sentence included the word: "But"

After saying, that you Agree with the following statements:
- Its a Monster with Sand up. Smooth Rock which makes sand last 3 turns longer, was not mentioned.
- It could barely be stopped

Can you really say But?

Your "But" was that you need to predict to send Excadrill in on something.

Of course you do, you dont just click buttons and win matches. You always need to predict and outsmart your opponent, or in Anttya 's case, just hax their asses.

I agree that you cant send it on everything. But you can also send it on many many things.
Then again, look at it from your opponent's perspective:

What can THEY send in on Excadrill?
Excadrill's only answers are powerful priorities, something bulky enough to tank a hit and do damage in return, or a statusing prankster of some sort (WoW/Glare/Stun Spore/Spore/ETC.)
There IS something wrong with that.
If you're gonna go for the argument, "Alot of mons have prankster and status OR are bulky enough to status it.." ... Don't. It's not even an argument.

Now if youre still on about.. "I need to predict alot before I send Excadrill in, while sand is up, guess what? You have 8 turns to do so.
Smooth Rock Ban would limit your precious time to decide when do I send this "Monster" and "5 Types Destroyer".

I have nothing further to say because everything I wanted to say, you can go ahead and read in my previous posts, I do not want to repeat myself. Again.

-----------------------------------

Now to Freeroamer .

I liked your post, it made sense and I'm happy to see a past Ground user being unbiased/objective or w/e you call it, about this.

The only problem with it, you mentioned a few times, that Landorus-I, is irreplaceable. I Agree with that, But you also said Ground will become some sort of a bad type because of that?
That banning Landorus-Incarnate would devestate the type as a whole?
No. It wont.

Hypothetically, Landorus-Incarnate is now banned by Monotype.
It's possible that a phyiscal replacement as in , actual Pokemon Slot replacement, not the Physical Attacker kind of replacement, would MOST LIKELY, be Nidoking.
Or: Special Garchomp & Gliscor/Diggersby/Zygarde and such.

Here too, I agree those will NOT do the exact same job Landorus-I did by its own. Sweeping entire teams, if it has Rock Polish/Gravity, even unboosted, actually, but that doesnt entirely matter cause it does NOT deserve a ban.
Even if it does get banned, Ground will still be a pretty good type.
Yeah, its a monster and yeah its fucking amazing, and here is the most important "But"!
It will be TOO DRASTIC of a ban. Ground WILL drop in usage. And that nerf is TOO big of a nerf for ground.

Look even Da-Rude Sandstorm is a thing. A person who does not even play this game, has been bullied by this sand storm :(

I stand behind my vote to Ban Smooth Rock.

I blame Monotip for starting this Lando-I discussion :/

 

[mullin]

I don't think the original post about lando I was to ban it. It was simply stating that ou is suspecting it and asking what are thoughts are in mono if anyone thinks it has the same reasoning to go in mono as well since so many people want a ground nerf my self included. Here is my thought process on why it makes more sense in ou to ban. It has great set up in rock polish as well as hp Ice and earth power and sludge wave seeing as in ou every team has clefable this mon breaks these teams with the right pairing with a bisharp or a keldeo. Ground has one switch in for ice type in gastrodon or seismitoad, yes you can switch in mamoswine but that thing doesn't come in on much once rocks are up.Also again monotype and ou use sets differently I don't see hp the same threat of lando in mono as I do in ou.
Personally it does not bother me to see it go if it does we are not even suspecting the thing I think it does its job as a wall breaker perfectly and that doesn't justify a ban but it will be interesting to see if ou's decision affects how we look at it as a whole

 

[Fírnen]

OmniaX, without offense, you're always saying the same thing about ground since 3-4 page, we've understood your opinion on this, it is useless to say it again and again and again ...


I'm agree with Freeroamer: Landorus isn't the same than Nidoking, the Landorus speed makes one of the difference between them. Nidoking looks better with him great movepool.
Ban Landorus for ground means you only have "2" specials sweepers: Nidoking and M-Camerupt (the last is very slow, son he can't really sweep like Lando or Nidoking do it).
It lows a lot the diversity of Ground like this.


I'd like see my opinion on Stat too.
Stats shows a global situation and not the right reality.
What i want mean by this? I just mean there are some type of people in ladd: People who ladd and have a "good" vision of strategy, People who ladd with troll teams or similar idea, and, people who are bad and don't understand the metagame (let's be honnest, 1/3 of people are like this if not more...)
Just by example: http://puu.sh/hVrHq/6e5c7b0bb1.png (Don't say me Telepathy is viable or i kill my self with love).

So, to resume, stats have a percentage of mistake on the metagame and can't be very reliable.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

I know that the majority probably won't agree with me but we all are aware that:

• Smooth Rock
• Excadrill
• Landorus-I

Are three of our main discussions for Monotype Ground. I do say that we should all take a look in suspecting each one by one because I want to do a further in-depth look into Mono Ground with these three things we're discussing and we have been hitting some valid points in about the last 5 pages (excluding being side tracked with that Mega Charizard X on Flying discussion). I have to say I was the one who really wanted Smooth Rock to be looked at first before we do anything else. With Smooth Rock around, Sandstorm will last longer enough for Excadrill to puncture dents into the opposing mono team. I experienced how horrendous it became a problem while I was using Mono Grass a month ago as I was trying to stall out so that Sandstorm from Hippodown can end. I would say that banning Smooth Rock won't do us much except for the fact that Excadrill will have lesser turns being able to crumble a team and the fact that Hippodown will PROBABLY be switching in more often than usual. I would say that Smooth Rock being banned would be helpful considering of the fact that there will be much lesser turns for my team in taking damage from sandstorm that isn't Rock-, Steel-, or Ground-types when I don't have an item or a move that can recover my Pokemon's health.

I'm very grateful that Acast brought back up Landorus-I being suspected along with Monotip because I really have been struggling against it with Steel-types more times than I can count. For it to be able to 2 or OHKO my entire team was bad enough (yes I saw one with Hidden Power Fire get rid of Ferro). With Sheer Force and Life Orb, we meet another Nidoking / Queen, but with superior offensive stats and Speed. Going against Landorus-I is a force to be reckoned with. I don't think that we should even drop this discussion though. We should at least consider taking a look into it instead of dropping this suspect and just look at Excadrill and Smooth Rock because with Landorus-I having Gravity on Mono Ground, you best be prepared for whatever is coming your way because you'll need to do some predicting and with Gravity on the field, Excadrill gains the upper hand along with sandstorm behind it because it will sweep through mono teams around 5 turns depending on what you have against Excadrill.

Fairy just have issues against the type. Landorus-I and Excadrill are major problems against it.

Even though many say Ice has the overall advantage, they kind of struggle against Ground.

Steel-types = goodbye (ofc)

Grass-types to my surprise struggle against them.

I'm just saying we should all just suspect each of these three by taking action because they all seem to be our primary target as of....almost this past week now.

Freeroamer topic on Psychic-types, I would like to say...*Looks at Medicham....*

 

[Blumenwitz]

Just because a type has all neutral matchups doesn't mean its broken. It just means it is pretty good and has pretty good mons, which Psychic has plenty of. It doesn't mean overpowered, as Psychic has always been a top type.

I never said it was broken. I was just wondering what Freeroamer was referring to when he talked about Psychic's "bad" matchups.

 

[KannaVZ]

These are very useful, but there are a couple things I wanted to point out. First, SpD Cress counters
Lando-I.

first off thxs for thanking, also I didn't used cress cuz is not one of the generic psy mons.

Secondly, I don't think your statement regarding Flying is true. With gravity, Landorus can do a number to Flying including hitting key Pokemon like Zard Y and Skarmory hard wih EP. It also gets Sludge Wave for Togekiss, and Rock Slide for Articuno and other Flying types. It also outspeeds Zard X pre-DD and bops it. So Landorus can do a lot to Flying with the right moveset.

Yes, I was mistaken about flying, this is why in this second part of type analisys I'm gonna take gravity lando in consideration (even tho gravity is the 5th most common move and I would have to erase focus blast as a move)

Sooo, here it goes the second half of: You really think Lando can take the meta by itself :D (hopefully a reccuring series when something has to be suspected)

Flying (having in mind gravity is up or sequencing some turns)

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Flying (having in mind gravity is up or sequencing some turns)

Skarm: no need to point calcs here, just some good mind games and things about outspeeding and predicting.

turn 1 Lando sets up gravity, skarm sets rock
turn 2 Lando attacks with ep and brings skarmory down to sturdy, skarmory should at this point whirlwind
turn 3 person switches back to lando, the skarmory user again should whirlwind again/ the poke that got whirlwinded
realizes the pattern and kills the skarm

Mega CHar-X:
if gravity is up then GG
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 523-616 (176 - 207.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

also the charizard user can play along with the fact of mega-evolving
but if rocks are up (take that almost as a fact) there's no way CHar is gonna survive

for char-Y is the same thing, if rocks are up, any coverage move on lando kills it (remember that lando outspeeds)

togekiss: (there are 2 versions of kiss, the timid and the calm, both equally popular)

if timid Kiss:
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 139-165 (43.5 - 51.7%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO (plus the flinch chance and GG lando)
so we can assume this outspeeds and kills hopefully in 3 turns if flinch is really good, if not....
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss: 286-338 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

If calm kill:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 211-250 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so two KO, and the worst it can do is:
4 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 121-144 (37.9 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and no flinch cuz no t-wave and that would be for kiss...

Gyarados:
is a solid check, can take a hit, but cannot come in and take 2 if gravity is up
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 230-270 (69.4 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
if no gravity
252+ Atk Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 332-392 (104 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
SO gyarados is a solid revenge killer on flying

now Lando-T
if scarf:
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 195-229 (61.1 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (lawl gravity works both ways)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 274-324 (85.8 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

so yeah, if scarfed it can 2hko, if not is a coin toss.

Gliscor:
phis version:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gliscor: 286-339 (80.7 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
and gliscor can do about 37% back with it, and try gain a little health with protect, but it won't work
spdef version:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Gliscor: 231-274 (65.2 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
and spdef gliscor has more attack EVs than regular gliscore, so this time it does around 45% with eq

Dragonite: (if gravity)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 115-135 (35.6 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and second hit:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 230-270 (71.2 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and dragonite can dragon claw for like 55% damage, but gets 2HKOd as Lando is faster

thundurus-I outspeeds and kills lando with HP ice
non scarved (58% of thundy-T don't use scarf) just speed ties and is a real coin toss if gravity is in place)

Mandybuzz:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 124+ SpD Mandibuzz: 191-226 (45.1 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
mandy can roost stall it, toxic and foulplay 3HKO so mandy is a solid counter, and this one mixed walling mandy.

SO flying takes a lot of damage but it certainly has ways to counter Lando, but still lando causes massive amounts of damage

Now our beloved dragawns (for the huge amount of levitating dragons I'm also gonna eliminate focus miss and have gravity instead, consider, like all previous calcs all 1v1ers

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Dragon:
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 214-253 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (garchomp outspeeds by 1 point,
it hurts, doesn't it lando, also just FYI like 80% of all garchomp spreads uses max speed jolly or naive, and adamant versions don't kill lando
and lando can't KO back, but the ground user can go into hippo
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 261-308 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Malaria
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 309-367 (106.1 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
lando outspeeds if no DD is up, if regular altaria (as in mind games, gravity calc)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Altaria: 218-257 (74.9 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
the altaria D-dances turn one, mega evo turn 2 and kills it with a return.

so if the altaria player is good at mind games altaria kills and is +1 in attack and speed, but hippo-exca kills it

Kyu-B (more than 50% kyus use scarf sooo ice beam kills it)
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 544-648 (170.5 - 203.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and lando can't do anything back
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-B: 277-328 (70.8 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so yeah, here's a solid check to it (shaky at best, but one that can take a hit, outspeeds and kills)
but if kyu-b is not carring ep exca comes at ice beams, ice beam tickles and exca kills it.

dragonair: the same sets and calcs as in flying.

latios: outspeeds and kills with ice beam, as it is LO, and doesn't need a scarf, and it also usually carries energy ball
for hippo, so all in all a good mon

Latias:
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 226-267 (70.8 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so again it can outspeed and 2hko faster, as lando does:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 181-214 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So dragon has a lot of chances against lando.

Now: the dark mons (we are back at non gravity version, so focus miss is back)

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Dark:

Bisharp calc is done is steel

Mandybuzz's spread changes (it no goes fully
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 212-250 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
if it roost and the lando user predicts then mandy goes down, if not foul play is still a 3HKO

against sableye is just a matter of mind games, and there's too many outcomes to this match up
depending on the set, wheter it mega evolves or not, etc, etc, sooo I'm gonna call sableye one of the better checks if used
correctly

tyranitar (only 19% of all t-tars run ice coverage, either Ice beam, or ice punch)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 536-634 (133 - 157.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 304-359 (75.4 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
soo at worst, if you like the accuracy you still 2hko, as the t-tar user won't DD on a plausible focus miss (if it does tho, somehow predicting you don't
like bad acc moves, you are infront od an amazing player, but your exca can overpower t-tar, be carefull with mandy tho)

Hydreigon: if scarf (as 40% are) it outspeeds but doesn't OHKO with draco meteor
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 247-292 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and it gets OHKOed by focus miss.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 244-289 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
so yeah...

Dark has really good checks and the second best check besides chansey in sableye, just gotta play good

fire T_T (counting gravity again)

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Fire:
CHar counts have been taken into consideration against lando in flying, and nothing changes

Heatran: already done with that.

Infernape: also did this one

torkoal: LAWL

victini: also did this one

Entei: Banded over scarf (scarf is like 0.5% of all enteis)
Lando outspeeds and kills.

So fire gets rekt, there's no other way to say it... also why is fire using soo many common mons?, already most of this sets
b4 lol...

Ghost: also counting gravity cuz, why focus blast?

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Ghost

Already did sableye so y'know what I think about it

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 204-242 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and lando OHKOs with either psychic or ep if gravity so yeah, if sash db tho theres a chance, but if you see focus sash gengar
you switch to hippo, laugh at db and sand kills it, much like infernape...

Aegi:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 322-382 (99.6 - 118.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
and if it survives and weakness policy activates then:
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 175-207 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so it aegi can't do much...

Chandy:
252 SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 234-276 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and it gets rekt'd by ep...

golurk:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golurk: 273-321 (71.6 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
if gravity:
252 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 172-204 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and:252 Atk Golurk Dynamic Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 57-68 (17.8 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO
so Golurk can DP, hopes for a confuse hax, and then take advantage of gravity and kill...
sounds tremendously situational and very niche... but hey! it's golurk sooo IDK....

Jellicent: it laugh at landorus face, it takes 40% from ep, it can toxic and recover stall it all day, only spdef jelli tho

Poison: also counting gravity... (I'm starting to see a trend here)

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Poison:

Gengar: did the calcs in ghost

Nidoking: only 30% are scarf, so only 30% of nidokings survive and kill it with ice beam, if the lando player doens't trust
nido it can send exca and kill it with eq...(btw exca outspeeds nidoking by 3 points 85 vs 88)

drapion: (only 12% uses AV, and also 12% uses ice fange, the odds of finding both in one drapion are fairly small), but
I'm gonna please all of you by doing this... btw non AV drapion dies....
252+ Atk Drapion Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 268-316 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Drapion: 265-315 (77 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and this same drapion:
0- Atk Drapion Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 172-204 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (calm)
0 Atk Drapion Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 188-224 (58.9 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (carefull)

so lol, drapion never counter, unless crit... and a lot of luck...

Mega-venu:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Mega Venusaur: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 192-229 (52.7 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so yeah...
and:
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 115-136 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

scolipede: (only 8% uses sub)
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 142-168 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
so if gravity is up it can do a huge ammount of damage...
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scolipede: 411-484 (157.4 - 185.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

T-cruel:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 172+ SpD Tentacruel: 307-367 (84.5 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
and
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tentacruel: 289-343 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
and cruel can do like 57% damage and hope for scald burn...

weezing: lawl psychic kills

fairy:

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fairy:

AV azu: takes a sludge wave and kills it with waterfall (13% of all azu)

bellymarrill (67%)
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 174-206 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and gets KOed by sludge if no light screen.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill through Light Screen: 192-227 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO


bandedmarrill(15%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 260-308 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Azumarill: 385-455 (95.2 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
so coin toss

so depends on the item more than the set...

Klefki (more than 70% of klefkis are phis defensive)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Klefki through Light Screen: 253-300 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki through Light Screen: 179-212 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and klefki can't do shit...
0- Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 73-86 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- 39.3% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 88-105 (27.5 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Lawl...

togekiss calcs are already done...but now add light screen and it doesn't really change that much, the diffence is that
exca still kills whatever lando can't...

diancie outspeeds and can't kill
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 217-256 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie through Light Screen: 234-277 (97 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

clefable:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable through Light Screen: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 118-139 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(btw this is the most spdef clefable ever)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Clefable through Light Screen: 156-185 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

so clefable can stall with recover, and calm mind the shit out of itself, and lando can't do shit, but as I've said with kiss:
what lando can't kill, exca handles quite well....considering klefki isn't leaving a lot here...

Garde calcs have already been done..

sylveon:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Sylveon through Light Screen: 127-151 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 2.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Sylveon: 255-302 (64.8 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and...
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 223-264 (69.9 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

with fairy the point is how many turns can the fairy user keep klefki alive...
and if klefki sets up only light screen, the team dies to exca...
if both screens are up, gastro can wall take azu if given the right spread...

grass W/o gravity

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Grass:

ferrothorn: already did it...

brellom: already did it

Venu: already did it

serperior:
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 178-210 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 338-398 (116.1 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
soo yeah

cardilly:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 278-330 (73.9 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and cradily can't hit it back (ironically the spdef wall of gras, can't wall lando)

Whimsicot:
depends on everything is done... prankster mons are amazing at stoping all types of mons...

trevenant:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 133-156 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Trevenant Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 90-106 (28.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
but harvest lum/sitrus can stall like a bitch...

so overall grass has its ways of handling lando, although not the best ones but has some ways...

Electric: if gravity I think is GG

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electric
Rotom-W: even at calm 252 hp, 252 spdef, it dies to ep

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 252-299 (67.3 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and it can do some damage
4 Atk Eelektross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 268-316 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
sooo?? check???

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 351-416 (91.4 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
and zapdos can't do shit...

both thundurus have been explained in flying, also magnezone

Mega manectric outspeeds and OHKOs with HP ice
only 4% of all Mega ampharos (out of the 40% of all electric megamphy) run HP ice... but lando OHkos it unless calm 252spdef 252hp, but that's a 2HKO, and AMphy can't do anything back... as it can't OHKO with dragon pulse(does like 60%)

so electric dies, but being weak against ground lawl (is such an uphill battle,also the only weakness it has, and gravity isn't that common, also electric has a plethora of levitating/flying mons to combat exca)

Rock:

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ROCK:
t-tar has been done
so has terrakion
so has cradilly
so has diancie

shuckle, but shuckle besides, infestation, toxic, protect and rest or contrary shell smash (AKA cancer shuckles) is like
LAWL

OMastar: as 85% of omastars carry a sash I say: "it can come after the death of a team member, shell smash, and then die to excadrill"

aerodactyl (only 34% uses aqua tail)
but aqua tail version (praying it doesn't miss) 2HKOs lando, b4 lando can 2HKO it, but ground has gastro to whom aero can't
do shit..., if no aqua tail, lando 2HKO with psy. If gravity, Lawl...

As you can see rock is another type if used carelessly dies to lando.

Last (finally) but nor least (LAWL cuz is the least used) ICE:

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ICE:
Mamo: sash and scarfed mamo kill lando with icicle crash, also ice shard kills, if LO also kills
mamo can't come into an attack but 1v1 always kills...

kyurem has been done

avalugg: if rocks are up GG
if rocks aren't up, and sturdy is intact, avalugg can do mirror coat and kill it

weavile: same as mamo

Mega aboma: gets Ohkoed by focus blast and it has to run adamant 252 attack to kill it with ice shard...

frosslass: outspeeds naturally and kills with ice beam, if it does something like db or trick or whatever they do
they get killed by ep, but frosslass is almost a surefire way to kill lando, try to come into an expected focus blast
for aboma...

cloyster is the same, it almost always carries a sash and it can ice shard, or shell smash, if no sash it dies to everything

articuno:
this is a real counter to lando, even tho it doesn't outspeeds and rocks kind of kill it(and being ground there are going
to be rocks soo yeah)

rotom frost:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Rotom-F: 187-221 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
but lawl...

cryogonal:it outspeeds and can take an ep, and kill it with ice beam, if 1v1 is even better...

piloswine:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 411-484 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 265-315 (65.7 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and carefull piloswine can take it down:
8 Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 196-232 (61.4 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
also it can eq when it predicts the excadrill switch

LAst wallrein:
252+ SpA Walrein Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 312-368 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Walrein Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 568-672 (178 - 210.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Walrein: 294-346 (69.5 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

SO as you can see ice has some ways of stoping it...

as conlcusion: I see that more than half the meta is affected heavily from Lando-I, as always this posts try to be as objective as possible, soo hope you can use them as ACTUAL ARGUMENTS to ban/keep Lando-I

and last but not least remember that all that can wall lando (lawl "wall") gets destroyed by excadrill (with the exception of mandybuzz, sableye and some others)

P.D: I don't care about grammar at this point, if you see any mistakes just have in mind all the calcs I did... and cry for me...instead of judge what I've done

 

[Chleg]

These are just random calcs that stuff can't switch into while what it can do back when sacking a Pokemon E.g. Scarf Rotom. I will attempt an explanation tomorrow -_-

 

[Tyke]

first off thxs for thanking, also I didn't used cress cuz is not one of the generic psy mons.

Yes, I was mistaken about flying, this is why in this second part of type analisys I'm gonna take gravity lando in consideration (even tho gravity is the 5th most common move and I would have to erase focus blast as a move)

Sooo, here it goes the second half of: You really think Lando can take the meta by itself :D (hopefully a reccuring series when something has to be suspected)

Flying (having in mind gravity is up or sequencing some turns)

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Flying (having in mind gravity is up or sequencing some turns)

Skarm: no need to point calcs here, just some good mind games and things about outspeeding and predicting.

turn 1 Lando sets up gravity, skarm sets rock
turn 2 Lando attacks with ep and brings skarmory down to sturdy, skarmory should at this point whirlwind
turn 3 person switches back to lando, the skarmory user again should whirlwind again/ the poke that got whirlwinded
realizes the pattern and kills the skarm

Mega CHar-X:
if gravity is up then GG
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 523-616 (176 - 207.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

also the charizard user can play along with the fact of mega-evolving
but if rocks are up (take that almost as a fact) there's no way CHar is gonna survive

for char-Y is the same thing, if rocks are up, any coverage move on lando kills it (remember that lando outspeeds)

togekiss: (there are 2 versions of kiss, the timid and the calm, both equally popular)

if timid Kiss:
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 139-165 (43.5 - 51.7%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO (plus the flinch chance and GG lando)
so we can assume this outspeeds and kills hopefully in 3 turns if flinch is really good, if not....
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss: 286-338 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

If calm kill:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 211-250 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so two KO, and the worst it can do is:
4 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 121-144 (37.9 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and no flinch cuz no t-wave and that would be for kiss...

Gyarados:
is a solid check, can take a hit, but cannot come in and take 2 if gravity is up
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 230-270 (69.4 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
if no gravity
252+ Atk Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 332-392 (104 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
SO gyarados is a solid revenge killer on flying

now Lando-T
if scarf:
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 195-229 (61.1 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (lawl gravity works both ways)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 274-324 (85.8 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

so yeah, if scarfed it can 2hko, if not is a coin toss.

Gliscor:
phis version:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gliscor: 286-339 (80.7 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
and gliscor can do about 37% back with it, and try gain a little health with protect, but it won't work
spdef version:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Gliscor: 231-274 (65.2 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
and spdef gliscor has more attack EVs than regular gliscore, so this time it does around 45% with eq

Dragonite: (if gravity)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 115-135 (35.6 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and second hit:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 230-270 (71.2 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and dragonite can dragon claw for like 55% damage, but gets 2HKOd as Lando is faster

thundurus-I outspeeds and kills lando with HP ice
non scarved (58% of thundy-T don't use scarf) just speed ties and is a real coin toss if gravity is in place)

Mandybuzz:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 124+ SpD Mandibuzz: 191-226 (45.1 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
mandy can roost stall it, toxic and foulplay 3HKO so mandy is a solid counter, and this one mixed walling mandy.

SO flying takes a lot of damage but it certainly has ways to counter Lando, but still lando causes massive amounts of damage

Now our beloved dragawns (for the huge amount of levitating dragons I'm also gonna eliminate focus miss and have gravity instead, consider, like all previous calcs all 1v1ers

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Dragon:
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 214-253 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (garchomp outspeeds by 1 point,
it hurts, doesn't it lando, also just FYI like 80% of all garchomp spreads uses max speed jolly or naive, and adamant versions don't kill lando
and lando can't KO back, but the ground user can go into hippo
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 261-308 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Malaria
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 309-367 (106.1 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
lando outspeeds if no DD is up, if regular altaria (as in mind games, gravity calc)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Altaria: 218-257 (74.9 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
the altaria D-dances turn one, mega evo turn 2 and kills it with a return.

so if the altaria player is good at mind games altaria kills and is +1 in attack and speed, but hippo-exca kills it

Kyu-B (more than 50% kyus use scarf sooo ice beam kills it)
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 544-648 (170.5 - 203.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and lando can't do anything back
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-B: 277-328 (70.8 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so yeah, here's a solid check to it (shaky at best, but one that can take a hit, outspeeds and kills)
but if kyu-b is not carring ep exca comes at ice beams, ice beam tickles and exca kills it.

dragonair: the same sets and calcs as in flying.

latios: outspeeds and kills with ice beam, as it is LO, and doesn't need a scarf, and it also usually carries energy ball
for hippo, so all in all a good mon

Latias:
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 226-267 (70.8 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so again it can outspeed and 2hko faster, as lando does:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 181-214 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So dragon has a lot of chances against lando.

Now: the dark mons (we are back at non gravity version, so focus miss is back)

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Dark:

Bisharp calc is done is steel

Mandybuzz's spread changes (it no goes fully
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 212-250 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
if it roost and the lando user predicts then mandy goes down, if not foul play is still a 3HKO

against sableye is just a matter of mind games, and there's too many outcomes to this match up
depending on the set, wheter it mega evolves or not, etc, etc, sooo I'm gonna call sableye one of the better checks if used
correctly

tyranitar (only 19% of all t-tars run ice coverage, either Ice beam, or ice punch)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 536-634 (133 - 157.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 304-359 (75.4 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
soo at worst, if you like the accuracy you still 2hko, as the t-tar user won't DD on a plausible focus miss (if it does tho, somehow predicting you don't
like bad acc moves, you are infront od an amazing player, but your exca can overpower t-tar, be carefull with mandy tho)

Hydreigon: if scarf (as 40% are) it outspeeds but doesn't OHKO with draco meteor
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 247-292 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and it gets OHKOed by focus miss.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 244-289 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
so yeah...

Dark has really good checks and the second best check besides chansey in sableye, just gotta play good

fire T_T (counting gravity again)

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Fire:
CHar counts have been taken into consideration against lando in flying, and nothing changes

Heatran: already done with that.

Infernape: also did this one

torkoal: LAWL

victini: also did this one

Entei: Banded over scarf (scarf is like 0.5% of all enteis)
Lando outspeeds and kills.

So fire gets rekt, there's no other way to say it... also why is fire using soo many common mons?, already most of this sets
b4 lol...

Ghost: also counting gravity cuz, why focus blast?

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Ghost

Already did sableye so y'know what I think about it

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 204-242 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and lando OHKOs with either psychic or ep if gravity so yeah, if sash db tho theres a chance, but if you see focus sash gengar
you switch to hippo, laugh at db and sand kills it, much like infernape...

Aegi:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 322-382 (99.6 - 118.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
and if it survives and weakness policy activates then:
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 175-207 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so it aegi can't do much...

Chandy:
252 SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 234-276 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and it gets rekt'd by ep...

golurk:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golurk: 273-321 (71.6 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
if gravity:
252 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 172-204 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and:252 Atk Golurk Dynamic Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 57-68 (17.8 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO
so Golurk can DP, hopes for a confuse hax, and then take advantage of gravity and kill...
sounds tremendously situational and very niche... but hey! it's golurk sooo IDK....

Jellicent: it laugh at landorus face, it takes 40% from ep, it can toxic and recover stall it all day, only spdef jelli tho

Poison: also counting gravity... (I'm starting to see a trend here)

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Poison:

Gengar: did the calcs in ghost

Nidoking: only 30% are scarf, so only 30% of nidokings survive and kill it with ice beam, if the lando player doens't trust
nido it can send exca and kill it with eq...(btw exca outspeeds nidoking by 3 points 85 vs 88)

drapion: (only 12% uses AV, and also 12% uses ice fange, the odds of finding both in one drapion are fairly small), but
I'm gonna please all of you by doing this... btw non AV drapion dies....
252+ Atk Drapion Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 268-316 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Drapion: 265-315 (77 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and this same drapion:
0- Atk Drapion Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 172-204 (53.9 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (calm)
0 Atk Drapion Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 188-224 (58.9 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (carefull)

so lol, drapion never counter, unless crit... and a lot of luck...

Mega-venu:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Mega Venusaur: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 192-229 (52.7 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so yeah...
and:
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 115-136 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

scolipede: (only 8% uses sub)
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 142-168 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
so if gravity is up it can do a huge ammount of damage...
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scolipede: 411-484 (157.4 - 185.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

T-cruel:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 172+ SpD Tentacruel: 307-367 (84.5 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
and
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tentacruel: 289-343 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
and cruel can do like 57% damage and hope for scald burn...

weezing: lawl psychic kills

fairy:

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fairy:

AV azu: takes a sludge wave and kills it with waterfall (13% of all azu)

bellymarrill (67%)
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 174-206 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and gets KOed by sludge if no light screen.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill through Light Screen: 192-227 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO


bandedmarrill(15%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 260-308 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Azumarill: 385-455 (95.2 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
so coin toss

so depends on the item more than the set...

Klefki (more than 70% of klefkis are phis defensive)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Klefki through Light Screen: 253-300 (79.8 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki through Light Screen: 179-212 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and klefki can't do shit...
0- Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 73-86 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- 39.3% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 88-105 (27.5 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Lawl...

togekiss calcs are already done...but now add light screen and it doesn't really change that much, the diffence is that
exca still kills whatever lando can't...

diancie outspeeds and can't kill
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 217-256 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie through Light Screen: 234-277 (97 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

clefable:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable through Light Screen: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 118-139 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(btw this is the most spdef clefable ever)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Clefable through Light Screen: 156-185 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

so clefable can stall with recover, and calm mind the shit out of itself, and lando can't do shit, but as I've said with kiss:
what lando can't kill, exca handles quite well....considering klefki isn't leaving a lot here...

Garde calcs have already been done..

sylveon:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Sylveon through Light Screen: 127-151 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 2.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Sylveon: 255-302 (64.8 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and...
252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 223-264 (69.9 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

with fairy the point is how many turns can the fairy user keep klefki alive...
and if klefki sets up only light screen, the team dies to exca...
if both screens are up, gastro can wall take azu if given the right spread...

grass W/o gravity

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Grass:

ferrothorn: already did it...

brellom: already did it

Venu: already did it

serperior:
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 178-210 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 338-398 (116.1 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
soo yeah

cardilly:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 278-330 (73.9 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and cradily can't hit it back (ironically the spdef wall of gras, can't wall lando)

Whimsicot:
depends on everything is done... prankster mons are amazing at stoping all types of mons...

trevenant:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Trevenant: 133-156 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Trevenant Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 90-106 (28.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
but harvest lum/sitrus can stall like a bitch...

so overall grass has its ways of handling lando, although not the best ones but has some ways...

Electric: if gravity I think is GG

Hide

electric
Rotom-W: even at calm 252 hp, 252 spdef, it dies to ep

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 252-299 (67.3 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and it can do some damage
4 Atk Eelektross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 268-316 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
sooo?? check???

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 351-416 (91.4 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
and zapdos can't do shit...

both thundurus have been explained in flying, also magnezone

Mega manectric outspeeds and OHKOs with HP ice
only 4% of all Mega ampharos (out of the 40% of all electric megamphy) run HP ice... but lando OHkos it unless calm 252spdef 252hp, but that's a 2HKO, and AMphy can't do anything back... as it can't OHKO with dragon pulse(does like 60%)

so electric dies, but being weak against ground lawl (is such an uphill battle,also the only weakness it has, and gravity isn't that common, also electric has a plethora of levitating/flying mons to combat exca)

Rock:

Hide

ROCK:
t-tar has been done
so has terrakion
so has cradilly
so has diancie

shuckle, but shuckle besides, infestation, toxic, protect and rest or contrary shell smash (AKA cancer shuckles) is like
LAWL

OMastar: as 85% of omastars carry a sash I say: "it can come after the death of a team member, shell smash, and then die to excadrill"

aerodactyl (only 34% uses aqua tail)
but aqua tail version (praying it doesn't miss) 2HKOs lando, b4 lando can 2HKO it, but ground has gastro to whom aero can't
do shit..., if no aqua tail, lando 2HKO with psy. If gravity, Lawl...

As you can see rock is another type if used carelessly dies to lando.

Last (finally) but nor least (LAWL cuz is the least used) ICE:

Hide

ICE:
Mamo: sash and scarfed mamo kill lando with icicle crash, also ice shard kills, if LO also kills
mamo can't come into an attack but 1v1 always kills...

kyurem has been done

avalugg: if rocks are up GG
if rocks aren't up, and sturdy is intact, avalugg can do mirror coat and kill it

weavile: same as mamo

Mega aboma: gets Ohkoed by focus blast and it has to run adamant 252 attack to kill it with ice shard...

frosslass: outspeeds naturally and kills with ice beam, if it does something like db or trick or whatever they do
they get killed by ep, but frosslass is almost a surefire way to kill lando, try to come into an expected focus blast
for aboma...

cloyster is the same, it almost always carries a sash and it can ice shard, or shell smash, if no sash it dies to everything

articuno:
this is a real counter to lando, even tho it doesn't outspeeds and rocks kind of kill it(and being ground there are going
to be rocks soo yeah)

rotom frost:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Rotom-F: 187-221 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
but lawl...

cryogonal:it outspeeds and can take an ep, and kill it with ice beam, if 1v1 is even better...

piloswine:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 411-484 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 265-315 (65.7 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and carefull piloswine can take it down:
8 Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 196-232 (61.4 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
also it can eq when it predicts the excadrill switch

LAst wallrein:
252+ SpA Walrein Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 312-368 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Walrein Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 568-672 (178 - 210.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Walrein: 294-346 (69.5 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

SO as you can see ice has some ways of stoping it...

as conlcusion: I see that more than half the meta is affected heavily from Lando-I, as always this posts try to be as objective as possible, soo hope you can use them as ACTUAL ARGUMENTS to ban/keep Lando-I

and last but not least remember that all that can wall lando (lawl "wall") gets destroyed by excadrill (with the exception of mandybuzz, sableye and some others)

P.D: I don't care about grammar at this point, if you see any mistakes just have in mind all the calcs I did... and cry for me...instead of judge what I've done

Calm Mind Landorus can break Mandibuzz, as can gravity.

I think vanilla Landorus breaks Sableye anyhow.

Shouldn't be suspected though; that's just silly

 

[all falls down]

To all of you posting (mostly irrelevant) calcs with Landorus, you are sincerely overestimating Landorus' ability to set up gravity. It is only a five turn move and Landorus will struggle to waste a turn against those more offensive teams like Dragon and Fighting and will likely die in the process(not to mention it should never set up Gravity vs those types anyways, as it has other moves to hit the Pokemon much more efficiently) For the majority of the types you mentioned Landorus is also the least of their worries.

In all honestly what is the point of posting calcs of things like Earth Power vs Charizard-X? it just takes up space in your already dragging post and everyone already knows the outcome. Rather than trying to show that things weak to Ground moves don't like Landorus (congratulations, they probably won't like the rest of the team either), how about you give some meaningful insight as to why it should be banned as opposed to anything else?

 

[KannaVZ]

To all of you posting (mostly irrelevant) calcs with Landorus, you are sincerely overestimating Landorus' ability to set up gravity. It is only a five turn move and Landorus will struggle to waste a turn against those more offensive teams like Dragon and Fighting and will likely die in the process. For the majority of the types you mentioned Landorus is also the least of their worries, or Landorus doesn't even need to use gravity in a lot of what you said.

In all honestly what is the point of posting calcs of things like Earth Power vs Charizard-X? it just takes up space and everyone already knows the outcome.

it was a good excersice, and btw I said it was mostly on 1v1s, and just to show how ppl sometimes talk without even questiong if a mon can come in into a lando attacking i.e: Lando has counters like X,Y or Z!!!!!1!one!, also, as objectively as I could post those calcs it shows that a large part of the meta can indeed revenge kill it, unlike more broken things (like mega-gross,talonflame, mega-bro etc),and also to make ppl comments more valuable and with some good arguments (unlike ppl commenting on other ppl comments and how irrelevant they are, as that doesn't add anything productive to the actual topic), also if we go about the rules of banning; Lando can't destroy (as in 6-0) entire teams (like talonflame did or Mega scizor does), cuz almost all of them have at least 1 mon (and those are the generic builds) to actually stop it. Lando is centralizing to the meta (even ppl don't realize it), but it can be stopped, but with the current team support can sometimes be too troublesome.

and yes, pointing the calcs about lando vs char-X might give the charizard user some things to think about (i.e: trying to set up before mega, a la gyarados. CHanging the spread, etc.) every bit of studied data is valuable IF you're smart enough to understand and find a way to use it.

IK Lando isn't a problem for a lot of team/types but as it was pointed above Landos counters usually can't wall excadrill, and that's what makes the core so powerfull, now add the sand that smooth rock hippo provides and you understand the problem (realizing this isn't about the "superficial" smooth rock ban, but more of a core issue a la zapdos)

Finally when you talk about HO vs wall-breakers there's something lost there, if I mentioned in the original post it was because a player (not a skilled one like you, but maybe there are some unskilled/in training players)that might switch into something to "absorb" that hit, which can't be done unless you are of course faster and stronger. (HO and other mons)

TL;DR: If you are smart and you want to use the data (from the monotype page) and calcs (that I made to help ppl make better arguments) plz be free to use it, if you believe you are superior/your skills/knowledge is far wider than that, go ahead and skip it. but plz don't be the person trash talking work (that btw is much more usefull than just bitching about a comment, which I'm doing rn cuz I'm childish like that). Also if you have better imput go ahead and give it.

 

[all falls down]

Also why is there nothing on how good Psychic is at the moment? It has incredible variety in team builds, more than enough offensive / defensive options to sweep / wall the metagame, it's bad matchups are in low demand due to the types themselves being bad and it is just in general, a very low risk / high reward type to ladder with currently. This isn't even mentioning the Baton Pass Psychic going around which is basically an autowin against any team not sufficiently prepared for it in the hands of a decent player. Food for thought.

As for Psychic monotypes, while on paper it seems like it could easily be the best monotype to use, there a few things that keep it from staying the best type to ladder with.

First and foremost Bug teams are rampant, moreso than even Ground teams, and Psychic just plain autoloses to some of these Pokemon. If the Bug user has Offensive Scolipede with Megahorn, it blatantly OHKOs everything after rocks with no hope of being revenge killed. If there are sticky webs up and they have a Scarf Heracross or if they have a Scarf Heracross and you don't have a Scarf Victini, it will also autowin if it gets a Moxie boost on anything. If they have a boosted Volcarona and Victini is weakened, it's over. If they have a +2 Mega Scizor or +2 Mega Pinsir and Victini is weakened, Psychic can't recover. Overall, the extreme reliance on Victini makes it easy to exploit. I didn't even take Genesect into consideration here (why is this Pokemon still allowed?).

Steel teams with Bisharp + Mega Scizor become near impossible to win for the Psychic user if the Steel user knows what they are doing. Bisharp's sheer power alone renders the Psychic user unable to switch out against it on a predicted Sucker Punch, as if it sets up Swords Dance it is instantly game over, letting the Steel user easily revenge kill / trap Pokemon with Bisharp. The only Pokemon able to revenge kill a +2 Bisharp are random Pokemon with Substitute (i.e. substitute Victini, substitute Mega Gardevoir, substitute Medicham) but these rely on 50/50s and if they lose the 50/50 it's over. Bug Bite Mega Scizor is only able to be revenge killed by Victini. Again, the extreme reliance on Victini is easily exploitable, especially when you have Heatran.

Any kind of volt-turn team destroys most Balanced Psychic teams, as the only Pokemon that can take u-turns is Slowbro which happens to be weak to Volt Switch. This gives a weakness to Flying teams in particular, with powerful volt-turn users like Landorus-t and Thundurus or even weaker ones like Tornadus putting often too much pressure on the team. This doesn't help the fact that their three megas (Altaria, Gyarados and Charizard) can potentially clean sweep the entire team if Slowbro isn't at full HP. I've also lost to Apples' unorthodox volt-turn electric team, because nothing switches in on that banded Thundurus.

Water teams happen to have access to three Psychic destroyers in Mega Gyarados, Manaphy, and Belly Drum Azumarill. If Gyarados sets up one Dragon Dance while having enough HP to live Victini's Bolt Strike, or sets up a substitute vs Slowbro, it's over. I generally try to hard switch to Gardevoir if Gyarados comes in on Slowbro, but if they decide to Dragon Dance it all just goes to shit anyways. Azumarill is often a mind game, and out of the fear of Belly Drum the Psychic user may be inclined to stay in on it to hit it, letting it get a free kill. If it sets up Belly Drum, nothing lives a hit aside from Latios / Latias. A lot of the times if the Psychic user has it, double priority Mega Medicham can kill off dangerous set-up sweepers, but by the time the threat dies they lose half their team anyways so it really doesn't make a difference. This gives another Psychic weakness to Water, although I will admit that the two Psychic megas (Gardevoir and Medicham) have great potential to wallbreak everything.

Again, Psychic is really weak to Set-up sweeper Pokemon that can't be handled by Slowbro. Examples are Belly Drum Azumarill, Swords Dance Excadrill in Sand, Swords dance Mega Scizor / Bisharp, and Dragon dance Altaria / Dragonite / Charizard / Gyarados or Mega Gyarados.

Some types like Fighting should seem like an easy win, but things like Breloom, Heracross, and Swords Dance Mega Gallade have the potential to sweep the entire team if played around with.

tl;dr Psychic doesn't really like any of the top laddering types (Bug, Ground, Flying, Steel), and it has the potential to lose to types it should be able to beat due to Pokemon that just far too dominant over Psychic (examples- Heracross/Mega Gallade/Breloom on Fighting, Scolipede on Poison, Mega Gyarados on Water... and many more) Overall, Psychic really struggles against specific Pokemon that are able to sweep the team and this prevents it from being too good. Nevertheless, I love Psychic as a type and it can perform very well if these specific threats are dealt with properly, but let's keep the discussion on what's more obviously broken.

As for Baton Pass Psychic, that's another story.
(I believe the only potentially broken thing in that team is Deoxys anyways; ban the most reliable screen setter in the game and the team falls apart)

 

[Sabella]

With all this being said about psychic i oddly agree with both afd and freeroamer. Currently the only people ive seen use psychic at a very high level recently outside myself are firnen and afd. This is excluding baton pass. At the begining of oras psychic was blown back my mega shark azumarill mega gyarados. Also the complete super usage of bug and unpredictable genesect. While this being said i think psychic users have adapted. Mega gardevoir has been clearly the best mega with acess to taunt peraonally its best set. Helping vs alot of set up teams ex mega gyarados. Psychic is also ggranted with a nice fire fairy steel core which is great. I think psychic users have just become more innovative and finally have learned to prepare for oras

 

[n64lord]

I have to agree with xbooty about psychic, since dear god the people using it have been painfully reactionary in their team building.

Weirdly enough, for ground, landorus-I represents one of the only special attackers and only pokemon naturally capable of creeping the base 100 speed (physical or special) tier. I haven't seen many dark teams since they lost their pokemon with these two qualities...

Personally I feel like the meta is at its best right now, since immediately after the zapdos ban I got to see a procession of ground>psychic>steel>bug>fighting>psychic>etc at the 1 spot on the ladder, and a reasonable presence of types ranging from fire,normal, and ghost just 100 points below. It's nice to have the place volatile enough that being among the best isn't a big enough advantage as too literally be untouchable for weeks at a time.

Personally I'm of the opinion that a megashark team like this one could clean up pretty easily, and that the glut of the afore mentioned types aren't really stopping flying or a more traditional water team from doing well; rather it is people worrying over threats that aren't there preventing them from being seen so much these days. Regardless, it's a much more open meta than it used to be.

 

[urkerab]

Some types like Fighting should seem like an easy win, but things like Breloom, Heracross, and Swords Dance Mega Gallade have the potential to sweep the entire team if played around with.

Particularly since Gallade learns Shadow Sneak; in fact the only teams that don't have to worry about super-effective priority are Electric, Poison (which happens to resist Mach Punch) and Water (which resists Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch and Ice Shard).

 

[Sabella]

Considering i didn't play ground since a time but all others type, i can say you my arguments aren't subjective.
My favorite type is ground, i am knew with it, ok, but it doesn't mind i want all broken things for this type because i prefer have a correct metagame, thing, you don't want believe when i see your answer about mine.

Let me say you something too:

I was became #1 on the ladder with Electric, next Ground, next Normal, next Psychic, next water, next Dragons, next fighting, next steel, next (cancer) Water and i'm finnaly #1 with Semi-Stall Flying.
Excadrill was released for all type i was became first on the ladd.
So, i thing i'm objective and i know how counter Excadrill here.


So, let me answer to yours:

1) Azumarill just sweep alone ground team if he is well set up.
So, yeah, Ground struggle with Fairy.


2) Back to time now, remember Imperium team, remember Jak.
This guy was the best Fire user in PS (no offense Aubby) and i've played a lot of game with him (Ground against Fire) and he won sometimes.
So, this is the best argument for fire against Ground Smooth Rock Excadrill i can give you.
You can defeat Ground with Fire if you play well.
But some people are lazy to try to play well and want ban all very good cores.

3) For you example against Ice, please, i've given Cloyster example.
Next Avalugg can resist to Excadrill Iron Head like you've showed it.
Next EQ of Avalugg: 0 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 248-294 (68.5 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
So we admit that Excadrill killed Avalugg.
He lost 20% with Life Orb (2moves) and you add 68.5-81.2%. → 88.5-101.2%
You know what to do, Ice Shard and you can sweep Ground team.
But it's weird, you didn't notice it. You'll probably say "You're wrong with your argument".
Ok, let me saying you i've done a lot of game with Ground against ICE and it is really worked.
So, another arguments failed for you.

4) Flying.
You're adding again new condition, it's a lot of condition Lando-Gravity, Smooth Rock, Excadrill Sand Rush LO.
But ok, i'm fine, Lando? He's ct by Articuno.
Excadrill? He's owned by Gliscor.
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 148-175 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 312-368 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO → With LO damage → 75% to OHKO Excadrill.
Result? Flying can easily check and i know it well because i'm playing flying atm and still being #1 on the ladd.

5)Dark:
Please, stop saying stupid things, Pika can tell you he can check this core.
Crawdaunt sweep all the Ground team if he succes to just set up one DD or SD.
It won't be Landorus who can resist to it even not Hippo.
Mandibuzz Foul Play is too a thing. Like Sableye-M.

6) Cofragigus never used?
23%, and one guys of Dusk (Chleg) who has been #5 on ladd used Cofragigus, so, i can ask you, so you know really the metagame or just saying things like this?
For others calc, you 're just saying i'm right for ghost.

7) Fighting has a huge advantage with Keldeo Breloom, when i was saying i consider Fighting like a weakness for Ground and IMP time, i forbid the using of Breloom-Keldeo, it was because Fighting is really a weakness for ground, with M-Gallade, it's worst than before.
Ice Punch power + Mach Punch + Keldeo Sub CM + Hawlucha + Breloom → You've just lost. (If your opponent doesn't play like a noob of course :) ).

8) According with All Fall Down and others good guys with who i've talked, Mew can check the most of the team for ground.
So, Psychic is enough strong to counter Excradrill-Lando.

9) People who use Diancie-M instead M-Aggron are wrong because Diancie can't counter most of Rocks weakness like M-Aggron.
But anyway, it's a match up, so, Rock lost with or without Excradrill.
Discussion about Exca for this type is useless.

10) Steel → Nidoking can kill all the team without Excadrill.
And like i've said, you're again adding new condition.
Counter i've given is enough, you're just writing to say nothing here, sorry to say it.

11) Normal.
You're talking about generic teams.
Your argument is only based on generic team.
So, how can you be credible when i read this?

12) Dragon.
The best ct for Dragon is Mamoswine and not Excdrill/Garchomp lol.
In wich metagame are you to say Mamo isn't THE counter for dragon...



And finally to answer about your last sentence:
"Now to Fírnen , Im aware we both have a huge amount of IF's, I really am.
But cant you see these are more likely?
Counter Chansey?
Cofagrigus?
Seriously?"

I just have more experience and games played than you in this tiers.
I know which sets are used and which Pokemons too.
Try to discredit me like you did is vexed.
I've more 1000 games for more 700 wins in this metagame.
Just with it and with stats (who aren't very explicit cause stats are based on usage of Pokemon of ALL USERS, BAD TOO.), i can give an objective opinion.
I didn't always have understood why you were discrediting me while i know the meta and ( i don't like saying this) i'm one of the best monotype player.
All things i say is thought and checked.

I put once more time my stats to have more credibility (like Crazy did).

#1 monotype172686.61849 ± 27--703311

i feel just because you can ladder doesnt give your opinion any more legitamacy then any other educated player. Many VERY educated users are not ladder heros but they do unsunderstand the metagame as well as there have been nnumerous #1's who dont have a great educated understanding. So just bc uve achieved 1 doesnt make ur arguement more viable then the next guy.

 

[Sabella]

also firnen you seem to forget that its not just about excadrill, its got 5 other amazing pokemon to help along side it breaking walls such as mamoswine mixed mega garchomp and landorus i. thats what makes sand rush and excadrill such a bitch is that it makes exca so ez to sweep when walls have been worn down By all the wallbreakers.

 

[Fírnen]

i feel just because you can ladder doesnt give your opinion any more legitamacy then any other educated player. Many VERY educated users are not ladder heros but they do unsunderstand the metagame as well as there have been nnumerous #1's who dont have a great educated understanding. So just bc uve achieved 1 doesnt make ur arguement more viable then the next guy.

Totally agree with you about this point.
I'm totally wrong.
I wanted mean i laddered a lot and with all games i've played, i saw "the metagame", i'm saying by this i've played against some Ground Teams with Excadrill Sand Rush - Smooth Rock Hippo core and most of time with different types, i beat the Ground.

The core is the issue now?
The Core is played since the start of ORAS and we can't say, except the Greninja ban, than other bans have an big influence on Ground last time.
I'm still with the opinion that Ground doesn't need be nerf.
You've Psychic, Flying and Bug who are even good or more than Ground in this moment.

So, now, i see the problem isn't Smooth Rock Sand Rush but the Ground team called "Generic"...
This is ridiculous, this team can be defeat if your team is good built but for this, people have to remove them Generic teams but (imo), they are too lazy to build it.

Anyway like i said before, the metagame is great in this moment, why people want absolutely ban some Core, especially when Ground isn't THE best type to play atm...

 

[Sabella]

Im still on the fence either way about the ban. And your missing my point its not the core thats the issue but it makes it so easy for driller to sweep in the end when u have 8 turns of outspeeding the opponent after his walls have been broken down. Plus its hard for every team to prepare for lando i and mixed mega chomp 2 of the best wallbreakers in the game. It doesnt really come down to user being lazy because if the lose one pokemon on their team they open up another hole on the team thats how building works lol. Part of the problem is that most people in the begining of oras and late xy were still using choice scarf mold breaker drill now they are all life orb or banded. There has been metagame shift and now we need to act appropriately to this. 8 turns of banded earthquake is hard for alot of teams to handle i think even u understand that. And Ive used nearly every type, and water bug psychic flying fighting steel and ground at a top 5 or peak level. I really dont play monotype much anymore but i do feel like i should post my opinion on this. I personally think 8 turns of banded or life orb drill can just be alot for many types to handle regardless if they try and change things

 

[Sabella]

I dont really think its that healthy of a metagame when people can use ground and go from an 82 gxe to a 87 gxe with ease. With a huge type bias in grounds direction im not sure if thats healthy

 

[Fírnen]

Yes, i understand your opinion Booty.
But you can force the switch out too for Excadrill LO and for the band you can counter it (EQ → Levitate/Flying, Rock Slide → Resistance to this type, Iron Head same thing).
The question isn't 8 turns but Gravity/EQ core i think, it's just my opinion.
I won't say again counter i've enumerate previously in this topic.
I just say i used Ground as main type since the start of ORAS untill be bored of this type and i know what are counters, they exist but some people prefer to keep them team and say the core and smooth rock has to be banned because it's easier than rebuild the team in fonction of this Ground Threat.

For "I dont really think its that healthy of a metagame when people can use ground and go from an 82 gxe to a 87 gxe with ease."
I think it depends of the guy who use it, it always has a condition of "Skill" to use well this core, it isn't given to everyone too.
It's like for Flying team (since Zapdos ban), i've raised my GXE from 79 to 87, i won't use this argument to say Flying is broken now.
People with a high GXE plays well mainly with a top type. It always has been the same, don't u think?

 

[Kammi]

I think what booty is trying to say is that some types or teams have very limited and predictable counters or checks available for something like Excadrill. This is a problem because one mispredict or one forced switch can cause their check/counter to be weakened to the point that it is no longer useful, or it could even be taken off the field completely. All the ground user really has to do is keep hippo and exca in the back as their ultimate wincon, occasionally bring them out for intense offensive pressure, and there's not much the opponent can do.

Ex:
Let's say you use Cofagrigus as your Excadrill check on a Ghost team, like you mentioned before. We're going to assume rocks are up since Ground has a wealth of SR setters that make it fairly easy to get hazards up. Cofagrigus comes in to take an eq for x member of the team. If it doesn't...well, the team member dies, but you do get a clean switch; however, if you bring in a Cofagrigus on an Excadrill, there's no way they are staying in. Anyways:

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 133-157 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

If it's banded, this isn't even a discussion (also, Chleg doesn't use leftovers, so that also would be done). You could switch to Gengar to take the incoming EQ, but by now your Exca check is already badly damaged and can't come in again (the only recovery Cofagrigus gets is rest and pain split, so). The same thing happens with Mega Sableye-- it forces a switch from the Excadrill because of priority WoW, but it still takes a lot of damage and isn't always given a clean chance to recover it off, especially if the player goes to Landorus or a toxic setter like Gastrodon. If Sableye is forced to mega evolve before Excadrill is burned, then it's over, even though you technically has two supposed "checks" for Excadrill on your team.

A lot of types are like this. With sandstorm, rocks, and a buttload of amazing Pokemon, Ground easily wears down walls and teams in general. This along with the threat of 8 turns of late-game sand for Excadrill to sweep with is often too much. I agree with you in that people should be prepared, but sometimes it just can't be prepared for.

Side note: Of course we would be using generic teams in our arguments, because they hold the most weight. If you find some really creative set that helps you with this, then congrats, but those sets are often worse against other matchups (with a few exceptions) and so for now we assume that sets and pokemon used are the generic tendencies of the meta.

 

[Sabella]

Basically what kammi said yea lol

 

[Fírnen]

Oh, i understand better your point of view now!

But (because it always had a but), there is the same problem with some type against M-Zard X (Grass, Bug, Ice), M-Pinsir (Grass, Fighting), M-Medi (Normal, Steel),...
What about this? They aren't Sandstorm dependents...