Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

[Romsstar]

Whoa, there. Explain this Route 44 thing to me. Especially when the program tells me for that initial seed is starts on Route 45. I tried entering that and it said it started on frame 3.

Also I have to point out frame 0 doesn't exist, and the Japanese don't consider our frame 1 as their frame 0. Even if the program may have been misleading.

It tells 45 for Entei, but 44 for Raikou.
Anyways entering of Routes seem to mess things up anyways.
At this point I really can't tell to 100% why but I can explain at least at this seed:

Initial Seed:a4160986
0: Evolution~ a4160986
1: Kanto~ f7ed4281
2: Kanto~ b0eff60 - Raikou Advancement
3: Kanto~ 2b725c53 - Entei Advancement -> So this IS your Starting Frame
4: PKRS~ d304f9ca
5: PKRS~ d9764775
6: PKRS~ 9aa07344
7: PKRS~ 24082c67
8: Evolution~ 53acaa4e
This is the Seed he chose right?
I tested this Seed right on desMuMe and tell you:
Your starting Frame is 2b725c53 which is Frame 4 at the Entei Advancement so COKTAL indeed was right.

Anyways, I think the Entering Route Message is rather for later, you enter the Routes for your current Seed but not for your Starting Frame.

Having no Roamers out will make things indeed easier as I said.
I'm sorry that I lack the understanding of the needen maths to explain this to a point that would really help OmegaDonut.

 

[ΩDonut]

Your starting Frame is 2b725c53 which is Frame 4 at the Entei Advancement so COKTAL indeed was right.

Except COKTAL said the starting frame was 3.

If you're going by the assumption that each roamer only advances 1, then yes, frame 3 is what you'll get. But you also confirmed the starting frame was 4. (In which case, the guy only needs an Adamant Synchronizer and he has his Ho-oh.)

 

[Romsstar]

Except COKTAL said the starting frame was 3.

If you're going by the assumption that each roamer only advances 1, then yes, frame 3 is what you'll get. But you also confirmed the starting frame was 4. (In which case, the guy only needs an Adamant Synchronizer and he has his Ho-oh.)

Oops sorry then.
I thought I found what these boxes actually are for but it seems they just mess things up.

I gotta test that...

 

[Destiny100]

@Destiny: With those 2 out, you add 2 to your starting frame (1), so you're currently at 3. Just advance by 1, 3, or 5 and you should be on the right frame :)

I thought roamers advancing the frames was inconsistant?

Except COKTAL said the starting frame was 3.

If you're going by the assumption that each roamer only advances 1, then yes, frame 3 is what you'll get. But you also confirmed the starting frame was 4. (In which case, the guy only needs an Adamant Synchronizer and he has his Ho-oh.)

What was on my screen.
Anyway, I saw the Shiny Ho-oh but it decided to struggle to death

But I did advance by 1 frame using the radio. (I think - when I went on the radio, it was already in the right-hand side, does that advance by 1?)

Trying to hit delay again :D

 

[Romsstar]

I thought roamers advancing the frames was inconsistant?

What was on my screen.
Anyway, I saw the Shiny Ho-oh but it decided to struggle to death

But I did advance by 1 frame using the radio. (I think - when I went on the radio, it was already in the right-hand side, does that advance by 1?)

Trying to hit delay again :D

It is inconsistent.
Seed Verifier can calc it though.
But I just did some tests and my advice: Just leave the friggin entry boxes for Routes empty. I can't explain them I don't see their purpose and it works just fine without filling anything in.
3: Kanto~ 2b725c53 - Entei Advancement -> This is your Starting Frame,
although it says 3 it is 4.

I'm sorry If I can't explain theory and stuff to you but to be honest: Even if I could I mean hey it works, so is it that important to know how?XD

For abusing that on this seed with 3 roamers out you are on starting Frame 4, will suffice for your goal won't it?^^


@OmegaDonut: Yeah Frame 0 doesn't exist, BUT if A4160986 is your Initial Seed A4160986 is Frame 1, which you would get with no Roamers out. Seed Verifier outputs: 0: Evolution~ a4160986 for it, so in this case it is really a different way of calcing, at least it seems so.

 

[Jubilee]

If I call Elm and he says "Hey ___, this is great news! A Pokemon hatched from that Egg! I knew giving that Egg to you, ___, was the right thing to do. I just knew it!"
That does advance the Frame by 1 each time correct?
EDIT: Darn :(

 

[Pehu]

Probably Method 1 like many gift pokemon.

Guys I'm trying to abuse for a starter in Soul Silver and no matter what I won't hit my seed. It's such an easy delay and still...
I wonder: Is it even worth it?
Who of you abused his starter on his/her Retail Cart?

I would say to give up. I was able to hit my seed only three times during the whole three days when I tried to abuse my starter Cyndaquil, and never once I was really close to my frame anyway. It's just not worth it, since you could just breed one anyway, and have egg moves to go with the spread. The ball isn't even different than you would get by breeding.

Also, I did abuse my Totodile in my Cyclo DS, but that is a whole different subject, as I just needed to hit my delay once because of the save states.

I would say drop it. There will be things easier to abuse, and with better results.

 

[Romsstar]

I would say to give up. I was able to hit my seed only three times during the whole three days when I tried to abuse my starter Cyndaquil, and never once I was really close to my frame anyway. It's just not worth it, since you could just breed one anyway, and have egg moves to go with the spread. The ball isn't even different than you would get by breeding.

Also, I did abuse my Totodile in my Cyclo DS, but that is a whole different subject, as I just needed to hit my delay once because of the save states.

I would say drop it. There will be things easier to abuse, and with better results.

Thanks, I figured that without savestates it would be hard. And yeah I'm trying it on my retail cart so no Savestates alas:/

If I call Elm and he says "Hey ___, this is great news! A Pokemon hatched from that Egg! I knew giving that Egg to you, ___, was the right thing to do. I just knew it!"
That does advance the Frame by 1 each time correct?

No it doesn't at all.

 

[Weaevil]

Oke. i just checked my second attempt at RNGing Raikou. darndest thing happened. my raikou was off by 6. now this shouldnt even be possible with the frame advancement methods i chose. the frame was 1183 and with calling elm 12 times and walking a lot of steps, my raikou turned out to be 1195. thats impossble of course. unless my starting frame was 2 and i overshot my walking by 5. No idea how to check my starting frame with seed verifier, does anyone know?? anyway i caught the entei as well to make sure it was frame 1201 to double check. turns out the entei was frame 1190! so when both are generated (with suicune still alive.) ENTEI is frame 1 and raikou is frame 6. can anyone confirm this?

 

[Romsstar]

Oke. i just checked my second attempt at RNGing Raikou. darndest thing happened. my raikou was off by 6. now this shouldnt even be possible with the frame advancement methods i chose. the frame was 1183 and with calling elm 12 times and walking a lot of steps, my raikou turned out to be 1195. thats impossble of course. unless my starting frame was 2 and i overshot my walking by 5. No idea how to check my starting frame with seed verifier, does anyone know?? anyway i caught the entei as well to make sure it was frame 1201 to double check. turns out the entei was frame 1190! so when both are generated (with suicune still alive.) ENTEI is frame 1 and raikou is frame 6. can anyone confirm this?

If you have roamers: Current Seed Finder "- Entei Advancement" or "-Raikou Advancement" or "Lat Advancement" the Seed next to it is your starting Frame-1.
So add +1 to have your actual starting Frame.

 

[ΩDonut]

@OmegaDonut: Yeah Frame 0 doesn't exist, BUT if A4160986 is your Initial Seed A4160986 is Frame 1, which you would get with no Roamers out. Seed Verifier outputs: 0: Evolution~ a4160986 for it, so in this case it is really a different way of calcing, at least it seems so.

If you look at the top box you'll see it outputs K K K P P P P E K E while the bottom indicates E K K K P P P P E K. That extra E is produced because frame 0 is included. It should be removed.

 

[Weaevil]

so how do i check without roamers out? and how is it possible that in me EU HG game Entei is frame 1 and Raikou is frame 6?

 

[ΩDonut]

so how do i check without roamers out? and how is it possible that in me EU HG game Entei is frame 1 and Raikou is frame 6?

Simple way to check: start the game, release the roamers with no advances. Catch another Pokemon to verify your seed. Catch the roamers and find their frames.

It doesn't matter what seed you start the game with, so long as you know what it is. So you'll have to RNG for a particular time, but doesn't really matter what the delay is.

EDIT: Even simpler -- just start the game, don't even worry about RNGing the seed. Catch Raikou and Entei, then plug their IVs into the Seed Finder with Open Search and Show Offset checked. Pick ANY seed that has Raikou's IVs on an offset > 10.

Because the RNG is a Linear Congruent RNG, Entei's frame will show after Raikou's no matter what seed you start on, unless the EU versions have things mixed up. In which case, Entei's frame will show up before Raikou's in the list for the seed you picked.

 

[Romsstar]

If you look at the top box you'll see it outputs K K K P P P P E K E while the bottom indicates E K K K P P P P E K. That extra E is produced because frame 0 is included. It should be removed.

But if you take into account that calling Elm advances your frame +1, then it makes sense leaving it in.
Think of it like this:
Initial Seed:a4160986
0: Evolution~ a4160986 -> This is the Frame you start on with no Roamers out and NOT calling Elm.
But after you call Elm you'll be on this 1: Kanto~ f7ed4281

So maybe we have to think of the Number not as Frame Number but Call Number?

O Calls = Evolution~ a4160986 -> Starting Frame 1 (as Frame 0 doesn't exist)
1 Call = Kanto~ f7ed4281 -> Frame 2 (Frame 1 + calling Elm once = Frame 2)

 

[Weaevil]

oke but how do you explain entei having a lower frame than raikou? iv been thinking and it could be that when i failed last time cuz i was 1 frame under. i killed off entei before i killed off raikou. it could be that fainting them in a different order before you retry changes their frames??

 

[ΩDonut]

But if you take into account that calling Elm advances your frame +1, then it makes sense leaving it in.
Think of it like this:
Initial Seed:a4160986
0: Evolution~ a4160986 -> This is the Frame you start on with no Roamers out and NOT calling Elm.
But after you call Elm you'll be on this 1: Kanto~ f7ed4281

So maybe we have to think of the Number not as Frame Number but Call Number?

O Calls = Evolution~ a4160986 -> Starting Frame 1 (as Frame 0 doesn't exist)
1 Call = Kanto~ f7ed4281 -> Frame 2 (Frame 1 + calling Elm once = Frame 2)

It serves no purpose except to confuse the hell out of people. There is no sense in leaving it in at all.

Weaevil, you may have missed this:

EDIT: Even simpler -- just start the game, don't even worry about RNGing the seed. Catch Raikou and Entei, then plug their IVs into the Seed Finder with Open Search and Show Offset checked. Pick ANY seed that has Raikou's IVs on an offset > 10.

The RNG is a Linear Congruent RNG, that is each frame occurs one after another in the exact same order, the seed just determine where you start. Because of this, Entei's frame will show up five frames after Raikou's no matter what seed you start on, unless the EU versions have things mixed up. In which case, Entei's frame will show up before Raikou's in the list for the seed you picked.

 

[Romsstar]

It serves no purpose except to confuse the hell out of people. There is no sense in leaving it in at all.

Maybe you're right. I think I'll delete it on next update. And probably adjust the Frame Number as well so people won't get confused anymore.

 

[Weaevil]

Weaevil, you may have missed this:

oke that confuses me a little donut. so what i should do, according to you that is. is release the roamers, catch them both to check the seed and frames and than just work from there on out?

 

[ΩDonut]

oke that confuses me a little donut. so what i should do, according to you that is. is release the roamers, catch them both to check the seed and frames and than just work from there on out?

Close. Release the roamers, catch them to get their IVs, and then find out if Raikou or Entei comes first in the list. You're not even going to the trouble of finding their actual seed, you're just using Open Search to find a seed that's close enough that you can see both their frames.

I know this isn't stuff covered by the standard RNG guides - just try it out.

 

[gameman87]

Omegadonut, while you're here, you should update the post with the radio info. I've found that with the exception of radio serial drama, and Pokemon search party, (two stations on the lower right button) NONE of the other radio stations are consistent. The two on the lower left are NOT always +3, and Pokemon music sometimes does not advance on Sunday either. There have been quite a lot of posts about that. Also, got a question. For that single NPC on the bottom of route 34, are his movements delayed after you pause the game and advance the frame? I found it very odd when I was breeding my Trapinch that on the two attempts in which I hit my seed, he didn't move AT ALL between when I exited the pause screen and picked my egg, despite the fact that he's usually very finicky and moves a lot, I even paused for a brief moment the first time. Not only that , he managed to make two movements before I opened up my pokegear (I used Elm to verify the seed and I knew he moved because the order shifted)

 

[Drathos]

I have a question about one of the features of RNG reporter, what exactly is the Pandora's Box option used for?

 

[gameman87]

I have a question about one of the features of RNG reporter, what exactly is the Pandora's Box option used for?

To abuse for a certain ID/SID Combination for catching shinies or to get your SID when you start the game.

 

[Latitude]

So I set the target time, reset and did everything right
target frame was 31, trying to rng suicune with entei/raikou roaming, advanced the frame 28 times and, trying to rng for a shiny bold suicune, I ended up getting a modest one ><

only have 9 rare candies, so can't check ivs for the initial seed.

How do i troubleshoot? And does the slightest error in soft-reset time cause a huge change in the nature of your rng? :S Someone help me troubleshoot!

Requoting this because nobody answered :<

Someone help, otherwise I may have to give up! I'm stumped!

 

[Nexus]

Requoting this because nobody answered :<

Someone help, otherwise I may have to give up! I'm stumped!

you got a modest shiny suicune or just a modest normal one that bit is a little confusing, if its a normal then you just plain out missed your frame and you have to find out which frame you landed on, I'm assuming you verified that you hit your delay and target time to get your desired initial seed before doing the advancements.

 

[Latitude]

you got a modest shiny suicune or just a modest normal one that bit is a little confusing, if its a normal then you just plain out missed your frame and you have to find out which frame you landed on, I'm assuming you verified that you hit your delay and target time to get your desired initial seed before doing the advancements.

I got a normal one

OKAY, I think I have it figured out now. SO~

I find the target time/delay/frame for the particular spread

Set the clock time/date and then soft reset to continue at the target time/delay
Then, input the seed of my spread into the roamer program thingy, and if the roamers are where the program says, I should have gotten the initial seed right, and just need to advance the frame accordingly? :D