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Gen 3 My Favorite Teams: Part 1 - "Team Liquid Flame"

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Veteran In Love, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. Veteran In Love

    Veteran In Love
    is a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 3 Champion

    Joined:
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    Every now and then, I'll be posting some of my favorite teams. After all, what am I to do with them and the analysis I wrote for them anyway?

    This one is called "Team Liquid Flame." The name itself is ironic in a way, because at the time of its conception, the idea of Charizard and Suicune on a team together seemed absolutely nonexistent. (Kind of like the idea of a liquid flame.)

    So anyway..



    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 12 HP / 136 Atk / 136 Def / 4 Spd / 20 SAtk / 202 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Body Slam/Return
    - Brick Break/Counter/Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Selfdestruct


    The usual Snorlax lead. I use him pretty much like a jack of all trades:
    everything from special walling to exploding on peeps like Gyarados/Salamence to stop sweepage or open up a gap.

    Charizard (M) @ Petaya Berry
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Overheat
    - Substitute
    - Sunny Day


    At first Salamence went in this slot, but I changed it to Charizard simply because Salamence is one boring pokemon. So after some playing around I ended up with the famous PetayaZard that literally replaced the one-shot, risky Belly Drummer standard. Much easier to use and possibly a deadlier sweeper in my personal experience, and it works so much better with Dugtrio. Timid because I want to avoid 50/50s against Salamence, Zapdos, and friends.

    (As a side note Charizard is my favorite pokemon, I enjoy how it is very viable in almost every generation unless all the other starters :) )

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Spd / 242 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Substitute


    My not-so-well known max Spec. Atk Subcune. One of its main selling points is that its so hard to stop this guy cold without getting dented yourself: Its only two ultra-solid counters are Roar Suicune and Roar Vaporeon, which own any Suicune set anyway. Even Zapdos/Celebi/Snorlax end up losing to this bad-boy mano a mano if they are switched in, although usually I would prefer keeping Suicune healthy and scouting the team first.

    Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 99 Spd / 107 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hypnosis
    - Ice Punch
    - Thunderbolt


    Your usual defensive Special Attacking Gengar with Hypnosis, along with appropriate EVs for taking a hit from a DD Salamence/Gyarados HP Flying and OHKOing back. This can sweep if I get rid of Blissey/Snorlax/Metagross/Tyranitar/Celebi, etc. although I use it as a offense/defense pokemon.

    (I would love to claim that I started using and popularized this set in ADV while literally everyone had McGar, thus making it three original pokemon in one team. :) But it's pretty common anyway so we'll let this go )

    Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 44 HP / 238 Atk / 228 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Aerial Ace
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Rock Slide


    Used to eliminate annoying shit like Tyranitar and Blissey, as well as equipping enough HP evs to get rid of IB Blissey one-on-one. HP Ghost is there for Gengar because I don't have anyone to take the sleep, however I don't mind getting Dugtrio slept as I can still win without it. Sure I have to give up HP Bug but I think I have more than enough offense to ruin Celebi!

    Metagross @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spd / 64 SAtk
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Explosion
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Meteor Mash
    - Thunderpunch


    HP Grass/Meteor Mash/Thunderpunch is used to lure out Suicune so I can consider explode on it and pretty guarantee me a much easier game. If Suicune doesn't come out, Meta's pretty hard to wall with this set. Forretress/Metagross usually just means an opportunity for Charizard/Suicune to come in, and Magneton will probably never realize you do not have EQ as your 4th move will never be revealed until explosion/death.

    Thoughts:

    I feel this is probably one of the best teams I have made, in terms of flexibility, working together, and winning a ton of games against both great players and bad players. Every member really works together and are capable of setting up a mini-sweep themselves, the exceptions being Snorlax (which is utility) and Dugtrio (support player).

    This team has been changed A TON from its original version. I was set on finding ways to just plow through with pure special atk intensity without having to waste time and switch to something physical to beat up the special tanks like Blissey. Charizard and Suicune are unique because they do exactly what they're meant to do on offense and can just plow through special tanks without comprising move slots or switching out.

    This team is really played on the fly and the best way to play this team is to be observant of your opponent's team and seek out whether Gengar/Charizard/Suicune/Metagross is the one that will win you the game, or whether you should use that sweeper to try and set someone else up.


    Some ideas on how to remove counters and set up sweepers:

    Tyranitar - pretty much only comes in on Snorlax, Gengar, and Charizard. With Snorlax you usually can run behind Metagross for the time being. With Gengar you can go one of two ways: Switch out to Metagross (the conservative route, if you want to take your time), sacrifice Gengar and weaken Tyranitar, then killing it with Dugtrio (the risky, aggressive route). Against Charizard, one usually subs up as Tyranitar comes in. You can go straight to Dugtrio as well (risky).

    Blissey - Use Hypnosis on Blissey when it comes in on Gengar, then be sly and try to pick it off with Dugtrio. Charizard usually rapes Blissey 1-on-1 with the Overheat/Blaze/Petaya/Sunny Day combo, and the same goes for Suicune. If you need more time to feel out the opponent Metagross/Snorlax is a good initial switchin.

    Suicune - This pokemon is usually the one you want to get rid of at all costs, because a Roaring Cune has the potential to stop Zard and Subcune cold. You can go to Snorlax to take some hits from Cune (most likely exploding on it if Suicune gets cocky and stays in). Metagross's set was made to lure in Suicune, yet sweep if said Suicune does not come out. I advise exploding Metagross even at full health if you can bring down Suicune.

    An idea on how to play defense through switching and flexibility:

    For example, let's say Salamence comes in on Dugtrio after Dugtrio picked someone off. Instead of being relegated to switch to one
    pokemon over and over again to take damage and get worn down, we can:

    1) switch to Metagross expecting a Flying attack, then switch to Gengar predicting an Earthquake or Fire Blast(the most prediction-oriented and difficult, but with the most ground gained.)
    2) switch directly to Gengar (good for one move)
    3) switch to Suicune (safest move, but can't do it too much because this Suicune isn't defensive)
    4) switch to Snorlax (also good for one move, be prepared to blow up if you sense Salamence is staying in after a DD)

    Or let's say Celebi comes in on Snorlax to take some hits. I can:

    1) bring in Charizard directly
    2) hit with Snorlax and try to paralyze it for an easier transition to Charizard
    3) bring in Metagross
    4) explode with Snorlax off the cuff

    Of course I'm not going to cover every possible scenario, I just wanted to reaffirm that the main idea is that there's a ton of ways to make moves and be creative with this squad. The team's flexibility in this regard helped me a ton especially when my opponents became more familiar with my team.

    For Next Time: Part 2 of "My Favorite Teams" will throwback to the RBY days and be in the RBY forum!
  2. Thorns

    Thorns

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    Messages:
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    Whao, nice. If a Gyarados can DD before Gengar comes out, you'll have trouble, but then again most teams do. I guess the only way to stop it is to blow up Snorlax.
  3. Iggeh

    Iggeh

    Joined:
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    Well, you could start playing with them again...

    Anyways, I love this team. Pulling off special sweeps is always so satisfying.
  4. Riryoku

    Riryoku

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    just a quick question but why overheat and fireblast on Charizard? am i missing something here? |:
  5. Dekzeh

    Dekzeh It's the sound of the world ending.
    is a Pre-Contributoris a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    Why not more speed on Suicune :(
  6. -Nitro-

    -Nitro-

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    I think it's because Overheat has the SpAtk Drop, so if that was his only fire move to take advantage of blaze and Pet... The berry, as well as sunny day, he wouldn't be able to sweep for long.
  7. Veteran In Love

    Veteran In Love
    is a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 3 Champion

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    There are many options for the fourth slot, HP Grass/Focus Punch are all viable options.

    That being said, here's why I like Overheat:

    1) It gives Charizard that small edge needed to OHKO on stuff that a full-powered Fire Blast may not: people like Tyranitar/Milotic/Slowbro come to mind. Of course this reduces your sweeping power but I like to think of this move as a "pseudo-Explosion".

    2) A great move for hit-and-running with Charizard if you don't feel like going all out just yet, and with this set and this team I usually like to take my time and scout early game as
    opposed to setting up the boost already. Plus Overheat is cool.


    Ah good catch, Suicune usually does carry 68 spd EVs / 223 Spd to outspeed max Spd, non-jolly Tyranitars.
  8. Master Sunny-EX

    Master Sunny-EX

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    er why 99 EVS in speed instead of 100,take 1 EV from that 107 Sp.atk on Gengar that way you gain 1 more Spd point. Also I'd really like this team but I like maybe someone else to set up Sunny Day for Zard sot that he can use HP:Grass for Swampert or FP for Blissey also cut back on thos Sp.Atk EVs on 'Cune and go with max speed for all those Jolly+Max Spd.T-Tars who seem to like flinching with RS A LOT. Salamence of course is a nopn-iissue with IB on Cunee. Also Hasty on that Zard would be nice sot hat the subs break eaasier to get down to Petaya.It'd also help out FP if you decide to replace Sunny Day.Great team btw.
  9. Dekzeh

    Dekzeh It's the sound of the world ending.
    is a Pre-Contributoris a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    Just think you need a better way to get rid of Snorlaxen other then assploding Gross because you never know when the awesone Curse + Protect Snorlax might appear.
  10. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    VIL sucks and so do his teams.

    That being said, I'll probably steal this if I decide to re-download NB.

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