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Need help with Salamence Team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by AriaBladeZ, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. AriaBladeZ

    AriaBladeZ

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11
    DD Salamence!!!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hey there! Dragon Dance Salamence is among the top sweepers in the OU tier, and so with the right support, surely he must be unstoppable! I've been playing around with this team for a while now, and although Salamence has successfully pulled off a few sweeps, my team still has some very notable weaknesses.

    During early game, my team aims to set up Steath Rocks, block them from being spun away with a ghost-type and spin out our own hazards. Then it proceeds to remove threats to Salamence, and then wait until the right moment come for him to come in and sweep. So, here's the team:

    [​IMG]

    Salamence @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Moxie
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Outrage
    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Fire Blast

    The teams main star and it is a beast! After a dragon dance, Salamence gains power and speed, so it will be difficult to revenge kill, most of the time. Fire blast and earthquake destroys any grass/steel types that the team hasn't removed, and after a +2 boost, thanks to Moxie, he is set to use Outrage. Lum Berry is there to avoid status and to give him a chance to clean up, if Outrage doesn't do the job.

    [​IMG]

    Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Flash Cannon
    ~ Hidden Power Fire
    ~ Volt Switch


    Magnezone is an excellent partner for Salamence, as it resists all of his weaknesses and takes care of troubling steel types, such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are it's main stab, allowing it to maintain momentum and hit flying types and water types for massive damage. Except in the rain, Hidden Power Fire destroys Scizor, Ferrothorn and Forretress. Flash Cannon hits Rock and Ice-types hard, and hits Ground types for neutral damage, finishing them off when at low-health.

    [​IMG]

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Leech Seed
    ~ Protect
    ~ Power Whip


    My choice for a wall. Ferrothorn's typing, stats and movepool propelled it to the top of the list of walls in OU, but of course you all know that. He sets up Stealth Rocks, and with the combination of Leech Seed and Protect, he can defeat anything that fails to 2HKO it. Protect also allows me to see through VoltTurn strategies, as well as any unexpected coverage moves that could destroy it. However, that could lead to the the opponent predicting, as I make the switch. Power Whip is my main source of STAB attack that can take care of the majority of Water pokes.

    [​IMG]

    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 Spe
    ~ Scald
    ~ Will-O-Wisp
    ~ Recover
    ~ Taunt

    I need Stealth Rocks to remain on the field, so that Focus Sash attackers do not ruin Salamence's day. Jellicent is my obvious choice for a spinblocker, as it shares fantastic type synergy with Ferrothorn. Scald is the obvious STAB move of choice, thanks to the burn chance. Will-O-Wisp ruins any Physical Attacker, and Taunt is an excellent way to stop utility pokes. The EVs allow me to outspeed other Jellicent and Taunt them, as well as maintain a defensive presence.

    [​IMG]

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Rapid Spin

    This guy is my Rapid Spinner. Since I really want him to be around for a bit longer, to spin hazards, I decided to go for Leftovers instead of Life Orb. The EVs and moveset is pretty standard, and lets it do it's job decently.

    [​IMG]

    Infernape @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Natual Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Flare Blitz
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ U-turn


    While Infernape's offensive capabilities are somewhat limited nowadays, with the popularity of Choice Band and stronger physical attackers, I still decided to use him, as he can be a good physically-based revenge killer/scout, thanks to great coverage and Speed. Close Combat and Flare Blitz are my STABs, which are still capable to dealing sizeable damage outside of rain. Stone Edge is a coverage move against Volcarona and flying types such as opposing Salamence. He may not be a dedicated lead, but I still start off with him most of the time.

    Weaknesses:

    If the team does it's job, Salamence will be pretty hard to beat, but it still can be easily revenge killed. This include Ice Shard users, such as Mamoswine and Weaville, as well as naturally faster Choice Scarf users, such as Keldeo and Terrakion. Magnezone is not the most sturdy of pokes, and is easily defeated by any super effective move. Ferrothorn and Jellicent might seem like an unbreakable combo, but the truth is that there are many Special Attackers that carry a coverage move and can beat them both. Starmie is also quite fragile, and is pursuit bait, which could prevent it from doing its job. Infernape is naturally frail, and with the defence and HP drops from Close Combat and Flare Blitz respectively, it won't be sticking around for long. Also, it's Attack stat may not be enough to overcome bulkier offensive foes, such as Dragonite.

    The problem is, that while each Pokemon in the team seems have excellent type synergy on paper (after checking Marriland) and their roles seem to perfectly contribute towards a Salamence sweep, when out in practice, there are those weaknesses that the opponent can take advantage of. Even though Infernape and Magnezone can pull off a semi Volt Turn combo, the truth is that my team can lose momentum very easily.

    Notable Threats:

    These are a few threats that I currently know of and have faced against. I am open to listening about any other potential threats.

    Mamoswine

    This guy is a terror against my team. The combination of STAB Icicle Crash/ Ice Shard and Earthquake is unresisted on my team, and OHKOes Magnezone and Salamence easily.

    Thundurus-T

    Unless Magnet Pull is activated, I can never use an electric attack again, until this electric thingamajig is dead. His STAB Thunder destroys Starmie, Jellicent and Infernape, and Focus Blast can take on Ferrothorn and Magnezone with ease. The Agility set makes it impossible for me to revenge kill.

    Alakazam

    Thanks to its excellent coverage and Magic Guard, this guy can only be revenge killed, which is inconvenient especially if he has a Focus Sash. He is definitely a guy to watch out for.

    Tyranitar

    Since common variants of him include Superpower or Fire Blast, Tyranitar can be really effective against my team. Choice Band Superpower can really put the hurt on Magnezone and Ferrothorn, and Crunch and Pursuit will definitely damage Jellicent and Starmie. The Special Defence boost means that they can't do that much in return, except hope for a burn.

    I really need some advice that can fix these weaknesses on my team. I am open to any suggestions. Advice regarding complete changes to the team are also appreciated, as long as they still have Dragon Dance Salamence and they compliment the above-mentioned strategy. I will make any changes in red.

    The very best of thanks for taking notice of this thread, and I hope you all have a great day!
  2. AriaBladeZ

    AriaBladeZ

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11
  3. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    785
    This team suffers very badly against things that can boost their speed and attempt a sweep. Just to name a few, Thundurus-T already destroys you with a moveset of Agility | Thunder | Focus Blast | HP Ice and a Life Orb, however it's by far the least threatening one: Landorus can do the same without needing Rain, not taking LO recoil damage, and being neutral to SR (the only check being Jellicent, which is 2HKO'd anyway). Venusaur in Sun is even worse, since once it gets a Growth on Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Infernape locked into CC, Magnezone locked into an Electric attack, or even Starmie (Ice Beam does 68% max), it OHKOs your whole team without ANY problem with a fairly standard moveset of Sludge Bomb | Giga Drain | HP Fire | Growth and a Timid nature, that allows it to outspeed Infernape. You absolutely need an answer to those threats if you want to be successful with the team.

    There is also another thing that doesn't convince me at all, and it's the choice if your Magnezone. DD Mence is already capable of eliminating Steels alone (Fire + Ground coverage is all it needs to get rid of em: Skarmory is killed after SR and a very little amount of residual damage, and Heatran is obviously destroyed). The scariest thing is indeed Ferrothorn in Rain, however that set doesn't even care about ScarfZone, since its HP Fire is not even guaranteed to 3HKO (!!), while Ferrothorn can Leech Seed and stall out with Protect.

    So, to solve those issues, I'd just remove Magnezone completely in favour of a Magma Storm Heatran. This particular set allows you to continue destroying Steels (although it won't trap them, probably) but most importantly to eliminate opposing weather starters (especially Politoed) that cause those Steel types to become a problem for Salamence (because as I already said, they're not a problem otherwise). Changing the weather to sunny gives a boost to Salamence's Fire Blast, that is now able to KO reliably Skarmory after Sturdy is broken, and allows it to always OHKO things like Ferrothorn and Scizor, while gaining a 2HKO on Bronzong that would otherwise be an issue. Heatran is also immensely useful against Sun teams, since it stops cold any Venusaur set lacking Earthquake (scouting may be needed to avoid being put to sleep, but that's doable), and can deal fairly large amounts of damage to Fire types with Earth Power (especially if you choose to use a Life Orb). With an Air Balloon, Heatran becomes an alright check to Adamant Mamoswine as well, since it can switch in and just OHKO it with Magma Storm; if the Mamoswine is Jolly, you need to make sure it doesn't break your Balloon while switching in, otherwise it'll simply OHKO with EQ.

    Heatran (open)
    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Life Orb / Air Balloon | Flash Fire
    Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam
    - Earth Power


    Even with the Heatran addition, Landorus and Thundurus are still threatening (although the latter is not as frightening as before since its Politoed friend could be already dead thanks to that Heatran set), so we need to substitute Jellicent with LO tank Latias. I think keeping Jelli just to spinblock in an offensive team that doesn't use Spikes or TSpikes is kinda a waste, especially if you desperately need Latias's resistance to Electric and immunity to Ground. Latias benefits from Heatran's ability to remove Rain, and becomes capable to hit hard any non-Heatran Steel type for good damage, and, most importantly, can switch into anything Lando and Thundurus have in stock for it, and OHKO back with Draco Meteor. Latias can still check more or less the same things Jellicent was used for (except Scizor I guess, but you shouldn't have many problems with it anyway), still has reliable recovery, and good bulk, so it seems ok to do the change.

    Latias (open)
    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Life Orb | Levitate
    Timid | 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - HP Fire
    - Roost


    Admittedly, those changes do not solve the Mamoswine problem; however, doing so would require a Gyarados, Rotom-W, Bronzong, or something like that, and I have no idea how to put that into your team without losing functionality or introduce other weaknesses. Still, Heatran can do something in that regard, and Ferrothorn is never OHKO'd by Mamoswine, so you can use that as a check too I guess, especially since it has Leech Seed to recover a bit and Power Whip OHKOs Mamoswine after the Superpower defense drop.

    Hope my rate was useful. Good luck.
  4. str8ght3dgepunk

    str8ght3dgepunk

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
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  5. str8ght3dgepunk

    str8ght3dgepunk

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
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    can i use this image of salamance please

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