Check this post; they updated shoddy and it requires that you delete the old version. Looks like a good take on the set.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4
- Thread starter darkie
- Start date
- Status
Check this post; they updated shoddy and it requires that you delete the old version. Looks like a good take on the set.
*cough* 120 *cough*
394 Atk vs 236 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 374 - 442 (92.57% - 109.41%)
Notice this is with max HP Tyranitar. 53.85% chance of OHKOeing without Stealth Rock. Legacy Raider posted the set in the analysis workshop a while back but it got deleted. It is certainly one of the best Fire-type Sunny Day sweepers out there, since it can set up on its own.
You'll probably be wanting Earth Power for that last slot there, because otherwise you can't touch opposing Heatran. This is why you don't need Dragon Pulse (hint, use Life Orb, it loves the power, and it gives it many crucial KOs):I've been using this Heatran in my Sunny Day team. It can be quite surprising.
Heatran @ Expert Belt/Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 164 Sped/252 SAtk/94HP
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Solar Beam
- Flamethrower
- Sunny Day
- Dragon Pulse
I've made this to deal with common Heatran counters such as bulky waters and Tyranitar. The idea is bringing Heatran in something that would force the opponent to switch, like CB Scizor locked in Bullet Punch, and set-up Sunny Day. With Solar Beam, Heatran can OHKO many bulky waters expecting a fire attack, even if it survives, Surf or Hydropump will have the power halved, so Heatran can take the hit and kill with another Solar Beam. If Tyranitar switch in, it will enter in the same turn Heatran use Sunny Day, losing it Sp. Def. boost of sandstorm, without the sandstorm, Solar Beam can OHKO some Tyranitar (But for OHKO most Tyranitar Life Orb is required). If Flash Fire is activated, Blissey is 2HKOd by Flamethrower under the sun. Dragon Pulse is for Latias, 2HKOing it, also, can catch some dragons on the switch. I don't use Earth Power on this set because opposing Heatrans usually will outspeed with Choice Scarf killing it, the only way to deal with it is putting Shuca Berry on Heatran, but without expert belt/life orb Tyranitar won't be OHKOed.
With this EVs Heatran reach 230 speed, being able to outspeed Scizor and Tyranitar.
Fire Blast in sunlight vs 0/0 Salamence: 76.1 - 89.7%
Fire Blast in sunlight vs 4/0 Flygon: 83.4 - 98.3% (it's not U-turning after that, so feel free to go to your Ground immunity)
Fire Blast in sunlight vs 148/0 Latias: 49.4 - 52.3% (note that its 108 SpA Surf will do 28.7% max in the sunlight)
The set is very powerful if you can throw some paralysis around the opposing team, otherwise it often ends up being too slow to do as much damage as you'd like. Also, for interest, here are some numbers for common Water types' attacks against Heatran in the sun, and what it does back:
0 SpA Vaporeon Surf vs Heatran: 33.4 - 39.6%
252 SpA LO Starmie Surf vs Heatran: 50.8 - 60.1
252 Atk Kingdra Waterfall vs Heatran: 34.1 - 40.9%
0 SpA Suicune Surf vs Heatran: 27.8 - 33.4%
SolarBeam vs 188/0 Vaporeon: 87.1 - 102.7%
SolarBeam vs 0/0 Starmie: 164.0 - 193.1%
SolarBeam vs 4/0 Kingdra: 66.8 - 78.8%
SolarBeam vs 252/0 Suicune: 82.2 - 97.0%
Best part is SolarBeam is 100% accurate, so no more misses like with Fire Blast.
(also, for fun, get this in on a Fire move, use Sunny Day, then hit 148/252+ Blissey with Fire Blast for 58% on average :P)
While this set may need a bit too much support for it to become a standard on the analysis (read: you really need to paralyze most things that can hurt it, because it needs that one turn to set up Sunny Day), it is an extremely powerful pokemon if you can provide that support, and can easily wipe out most of its counters and make holes in the opponent's team.
Hum. Maybe it could be the core of a Sunny Day team based on paralyze support. Most grass types have acess to paralyzing moves and can abuse the sun with chlorophyll or solar beam.
I was using this on my sunny day team to lure and kill Tyranitar. Earth Power is really a better choice for this set, I put Dragon Pulse on this set because Latias was a big problem to my team and I didn't have any other way to hit it hard. But for most teams I believe Earth Power is really the best option.
I have tried a LeadNite as well. What I did is kinda "remixed" the standard MixNite set:
Lead-Nite
Dragonite @ Expert Belt
Ability: Inner Focus
EV's: 144 HP/24 ATK/128 SpA/20 SpD/192Spe
Nature: Mild (+Sp. Atk, - Def)
~ Fire Blast
~ Earthquake
~ Hidden Power [Grass]/Ice Beam
~ Superpower/Draco Meteor/Outrage
Fire Blast allows Dragonite to 2HKO Occa Metagross and 92 SpD/Sassy Bronzong, factoring in Leftovers recovery. Earthquake can be used to KO Heatran as well as Infernape. Hidden Power easily 2HKO's Swampert, while Ice Beam scores the old one-two on Hippowdon, depending on which bulky ground you want to counter.
The last move is up to you. Superpower OHKO's both Tyranitar and Ambipom, while Draco Meteor gives Dragonite a powerful 140 powered STAB. Outrage is also a viable option if you want to go with a bang.
Dragonite's EV's allow you to always survive survive a Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch from Metagross, 2 Gyro Balls from Bronzong, and an HP Ice from Timid Heatran, assuming no prior damage (and there should be none, since this Dragonite is meant to be used as a lead). Hippowdon will also never 2HKO you with either Stone Edge or Ice Fang. Finally, 192 Speed EV's always outspeeds + natured Tyranitar.
Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EV's: 60 AtK / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
Nature: Rash
-Superpower
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Hidden Power [Grass]
-Thunderbolt/Protect
I shifted some of the attack EV's to Special Attack, so that it can hit harder, since you will be using more special moves than physical. Flamethrower vs. Fire Blast is your call. Protect is an option if your want to survive a Azelf or Metagross explosion.
This guy fairs well against some of the most common leads:
*NOTE* The following is based off of the most common lead sets only *NOTE*
Jirachi - This guy can't flinch you. Dragonite doesn't mind a Scarf with this set and can net the 2HKO with Flamethrower.
Metagross - 2HKO with Occa. Can only win if he doesn't set up rocks and just straight attacks twice.
Azelf - 2HKO with T-bolt or Flamethrower. He gets rocks, but he is a dead man. Protect is useful for Explosion.
Hippowdon - 2HKO HP Grass. Can't touch Nite with EQ, but be aware of Ice Fang.
Swampert - HP Grass = OHKO
Infernape - No flinch, 2HKO.
Gyarados - Thunderbolt = OHKO
Bronzong - 2HKO with Flamethrower
Heatran - Superpower for 2HKO
Gyarados - T-Bolt = OHKO
I am unsure on whether or not this guy can take out a Lead Tyranitar because a lot of them are Sash+Counter....
My thoughts in bold.
@tripe: For Jirachi I was going off of the standard lead set straight from smogon which is Iron Head/Trick/Stealth Rock/U-Turn. Is there another set for lead Jirachi I should be looking for?
And Hippowdons almost always opt for phazing with Roar for their last slot. The first 3 being EQ/SR/Slack-Off.
And Hippowdons almost always opt for phazing with Roar for their last slot. The first 3 being EQ/SR/Slack-Off.
Some run Ice Punch, which is doing 89.78% - 105.57% from 252 SpA on the Dragonite you have listed. Around a 35% chance to KO, I think, So it's something you'd have to be cautious about.
Jirachi often runs either Ice or Fire Punch over SR if it's a scarf lead. Mine runs both :P
question on what i can post. i have a gimmicky set that although it can be done better by many more pokemon, it is unexpected on this one and given the right circumstances, it works well. would I be able to post it or not?
Generally if another Pokemon can do the same set "strictly better", it's not worth posting. However, it may be hard to decide whether that is the case without seeing the set in question.
I deleted your initial post because Choice Specs Scyther is a ridiculous proposal and you know it...you never even bothered to post calculations (not that that would have saved the post, but it shows you haven't put any effort in).chris teke said:
I've deleted your second post because it's er...Choice Band Rhydon? It's a standard set...
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54487
You've just used an inferior EV spread and have a different option in the last slot (ie not new or creative).
This is a public reminder to people to read the OP before posting!
OP said:
it is? oops i did not realize that. sorry.
the scyther is not a ridiculous idea. i did not post calcs because i dont know what to use for calculations. i just thought that i would post my moveset here since it is asking for CREATIVE movesets. i have also used it a few times as well. the scyther set follows all the rules of the thread. it is not a joke set, it is a viable option in UU. it will screw with prediction, and that was the whole point of the set.
it is not that i gave no thought to it. i actually spent a few days dicussing it along with other sets with a friend from another forum.
w/e if an "Official Team Rater" thought it was stupid, i guess it is. i should just quit pokemon now since my idea was ridiculous.
Generally, to show that an "unexpected" set is good via calculations, you take that Pokemon's standard counters and run calculations on how your set fares.
The analysis lists Steelix, Torkoal, Quagsire, and Rotom as possible counters.
I don't know your set for certain, but I only see the following special options for Scyther: Hyper Beam, Bug Buzz, Razor Wind, Air Slash, Silver Wind, Swift, Secret Power, and Hidden Power.
Hyper Beam, Razor Wind, and Secret Power can immediately be tossed out as pretty bad options. That leaves a set consisting of Bug Buzz/Silver Wind, Air Slash, Swift, and Hidden Power. Ignoring Hidden Power, this appears to be the same type coverage that the Physical set gets, minus Fighting and Dark attacks. With only Hidden Power to make up for that loss and the required coverage to compensate for the shared resistances of his other moves, space is looking pretty tight. While a Super Effective Hidden Power (assuming you EV it to 59 Base Power so it gets the Technician boost) appears capable of 2HKOing Steelix and Torkoal, you're required to use either HP Ground or HP Water for that. We'll assume HP Water, as HP Ground cannot hit Rotom. However, HP Water is only a 3HKO on Rotom and Quagsire is immune due to Water Absorb. Bug Buzz or Silver Wind can 2HKO him, however, or HP Grass could be used to OHKO him (though this loses coverage on Torkoal and Steelix).
So those numbers actually look fairly decent, all things considered. The real problem is, you're hitting things on their defensively weaker side super effectively and still only managing 2HKOs at best. And if you look, Scyther still ends up dealing comparable damage to these things with Physical attacks (2HKO on Quagsire with Aerial Ace given Choice Band, for example), while managing a much higher damage outputs on normal targets.
That Dragonite set does not beat lead Aerodactyl at all it gets slaughtered. First it gets up rocks and survives a tbolt or superpower with focus sash (you lose 10 percent). Then it Stone Edges or Rock Slides you which will probably kill you or if not lo damage will. So who wins? Either they traded a poke for a poke and have stealth rock or they are up a speedy aerodactyl and stealth rock over you. I'd take that part out.
you are missing two platinum moves available to it. vacuum wave and ominous wind. i am going to get calcs with the prerequisite of a passed nasty plot. thanks for helping
If it needs Choice Specs and a Nasty Plot in order to deal significant damage then it is clearly not a set worth posting. That is just my opinion. Why are you going to assume that the Scyther will always be used with a plot passer?
"Hey guys, my CB Blissey set can deal massive damage if you pass 3 swords dances to it! See it is clearly not a gimmick!"
never said it wasnt a gimmick. . . actually said it was. i am not assumeing that it will always get a nasty plot passed to it. i have damage calcs now, so i will post them
Scyther
Set name: Absinthe
Nature: Modest
Technician
Choice Specs
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 30 SpA / 30 Spe
~ Swift / Vacuum Wave
~ Hidden Power Water (60)
~ Silver Wind
~ Ominous Wind
Description:
A gimmicky set, but a fun one. With a 55 base SpA, no one will expect a special scyther. It should be passed a nasty plot, but can still deal with its counters without it. Without a nasty plot, 2HKOs Steelix, Quagsire, Rotom, and Torkoal. OHKOs them with a single nasty plot passed to him.
Damage Calcs: Without one nasty plot is listed first, with one is listed second.
Using ev values/nature from set with highest values for HP and SpD. 31 ivs are used for HP and SpD. 30 is used for SpA
Steelix (Curse set 252/252)
Hidden Power Water (60)
Damage: 55.65% - 65.54%
Damage: 109.89% - 129.38%
Torkoal (any set 252/0)
Hidden Power Water (60)
Damage: 74.13% - 87.21%
Damage: 146.80% - 172.67%
Quagsire (Any set 252/0)
Silver Wind
Damage: 51.27% - 60.41%
Damage: 101.78% - 119.80%
Rotom (Support sets 252/0)
Ominous Wind
Damage: 77.63% - 91.45%
Damage: 153.95% - 180.92%
Why don't you use Hidden Power 59? If you use Hidden Power 60 you don't get a technician boost.
Yes you do. If you didnt, why you think it has so many 60 Base Power moves rather than any other? Like the case of Silver Wind > Bug Buzz
i dont save my logs, but i can get some for you
Oh right. My bad. I remember from one of the CAP projects that someone mentioned HP 59 was superior to HP 60 for technician Pokemon. Thanks for clearing that up.
- Status