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New team! Need help with fine-tuning

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by KTVX, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. KTVX

    KTVX

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Hi guys, I haven't posted a team in a while. After returning from a vacation from PO, I found my sun team was losing all the time (had gotten to 216 on the PO server), because the teams were far more varied and original than when I'd made the team, guess the metagame evolved or something. So, I set on my quest to make a new team that can get me to a decent position, and I made many teams, but none of them worked... until I made this one! I haven't played it much yet, but so far I got to rank 2000 something, which is good considering I started at 20000, and my other teams were even below that.

    Team Building History:
    Show Hide

    I wanted pokemon that could cover their weaknesses well for a core. I started with Infernape, then Starmie, and the Virizion, and at that point I noticed I had a nice WFG core in my hands: A fast offensive pokemon one.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Next, I wanted a single pokemon that could rely on all of these, and cover their weaknesses aswell. Since I already had 3 really fast pokemon, I could use a slower and more powerful one, and then Hydreigon came to my mind.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Something I don't pay attention to, but that's actually really important, is Stealth Rock. It helps turn 2HKOs in OHKOs for pokemon like Infernape, and is a general aid. So I had to choose between Forretress and Crustle, among other options, but most notably those two. I picked Crustle.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The final slot was a filler, since I didn't know exactly what to add. I wanted yet another hard hitter, and I need a steel, so why not Durant? It's wickedly fast and with Hustle it's devastating, at least on paper, so I decided to see if that was true.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I noticed Crustle wasn't very useful after it's set up Stealth Rock, and Durant isn't very reliable and is also very frail, so I replaced it with Skarmory, and as for Cruste, I tried Rhyperior and Swampert, not to much success. I'm currently testing Scizor as an offensive pokemon, and leaving Stealth Rock to Skarmory.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Closer Look

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Quick Attack
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit

    Haven't used it yet. For now I'll try it as a scout, then wall breaker and revenge killer with priority. If I see it fit, I'll test a SD variant.

    I have nothing on this spot, because no pokemon does what I need. I'm trying different things and when I settle down with something, I'll update this pokemon slot.

    Crustle
    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Crustle (M) @ Mental Herb
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor

    My SR lead. So far I never used Mental Herb, but it's supposed to act as a counter to Taunt. This guy can set a layer of rocks with ease, since I have both the Herb and Sturdy, but also packs a punch in case I see attacking as a better option. Since many leads are flying, psychic and grass, Crustle's STABs put him in a favorable position most of the time.


    [​IMG]

    Infernape (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Close Combat
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Overheat
    - U-turn

    This is the first time I use a mixed set on Infernape. I don't like the fact that it sometimes lacks the sheer power to OHKO or 2HKO some pokemon I used to with my pure physical set (and even more when compared to the Sun CB set I used to run), but that's usually not a problem since most of the time I hit a frail, weakened, or weak to my attack pokemon. The move I like the most on this set is HP Ice. It really destroys dragons and grounds, especially when they're part flying. The surprise factor of this move is incredible, and even when it doesn't come as a surprise it still is devastating. So far I love this set, it's an excellent revenge killer and can easily finish off weakened pokemon.
    After some testing, I found ScarfApe is even better than expected, since most faster pokemon are very frail (ie Gengar, Weavile) and upon seeing him stay, thinking they'll strike first, only to be destroyed. This gives me a great advantage because I'm able to take away a part of my opponent's team for free, leaving them with less options than before.



    [​IMG]
    Virizion @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Leaf Blade
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Copypasted from my sun team, it's still as amazing as it used to be. If Starmie meets a Chansey/Blissey, I instantly switch to Virizion (unless they're weakened and I can finish them off with Psyshock), who can absorb any status, and OHKO or force a switch with Close Combat, which I take advantage of by using SD. Many times they throw a flying pokemon like Salamence afterwards, only to be wrecked by the unexpected Stone Edge.

    Changes considered: None.

    [​IMG]

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    Starmie pairs up very well with my other pokemon, but most notably Infernape and Hydreigon. This set ruins any Gengar who tries to troll Infernape, and any bulkier ghost types are dealt with the three-headed beast. The bolt-beam combo it gets access to, plus a physically-hitting STAB for special walls and fighting pokemon, backed by LO, sure make Starmie a big threat. It's extremely fast, too, sitting at base 115 speed. Very few pokemon don't fear Starmie, and those who don't are dealt by either Infernape, Hydreigon, Virizion, or Durant. A very important part of the team, indeed.

    Changes considered: None, really. I could run Recover, but with Starmie's less-than-stellar defenses, it's kinda pointless and I'd need Leftovers instead of Life Orb, so I'd both have one less attacking option, and also my attack power would be severely lowered. Not worth it IMO.


    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Dark Pulse
    - Draco Meteor
    - Flamethrower
    - Focus Blast

    I tried Hydreigon a few times and it just didn't work. However, I allways wanted him to be a sweeper when it's more of a tank/wallbreaker, and the "Fable" RMT taught me how to use it properly. It works like a charm (except when Focus Miss misses), and many players tend to think of it as a scarfer, so when they use Protect I repeat the move to give them the false security that I am running scarf, so that they send a pokemon weak to my other moves that can either check or set up on Hydreigon, only for them to be owned by said attack later, and winning me 1/6th of the match in a turn. Now I'm starting to love this guy.

    Changes considered: None, really.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Spikes/Stealth Rock
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Stealth Rock/ Brave Bird

    Now that I used Skarmory for the first time, I ask myself: Why didn't I use it before? It always happens to me that I use a pokemon that usually gives me trouble and seems unstoppable, then it sucks. This is the opposite thing, I'd never had too much trouble facing Skarm, but it's a bliss to have it around. Whenever I'm in a tough situation, I can fall back on Skarmory so that I can reorganize myself and either stop a threat by walling it, strike back with another pokemon, or phaze a set up sweeper. I find Skarmory to be a very trustworthy pokemon. I still haven't decided on the moveset, so that's why the slashes. It also depends on who's my first pokemon, so I'll have to wait 'till I settle with one.

    Durant
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Durant (M) @ Wide Lens
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - X-Scissor
    - Iron Head
    - Stone Edge
    - Hone Claws

    This little bug is deadly with Hustle, and it's speed plus Iron Head's flinch rate make it even worse. You may think Wide Lens and Hone Claws is a bit redundant, but Durant, with its frailness, doesn't usually have much time to set-up and is sometimes used to revenge, so in order for me not to have to cross my fingers for its moves not to miss, I'm running both items. It's poison immunity, dragon resistance, and the abilty to hit hard make it pretty useful. However, it's the less vital part of the team (bar Crustle once it's set up hazard), so when I have to sac someone, I usually go with Durant.


    Thanks a lot for reading, and even more thanks if you rate and suggest changes! I usually take more time to experiment with different possibilities, but I'm not sure of what to change, and I fear that I may start losing a lot with a bad change. If you want me to, I can make a threat list tomorrow.
  2. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,425
    On Hydreigon use Fire Blast over Flamethrower for more damage.

    As for Durant, I really think you should change him to Blissey.

    Blissey @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Special Defense
    Bold Nature
    • Wish
    • Protect
    • Toxic / Thunderwave / Ice Beam
    • Seismic Toss

    With Blissey, you can heal you're other Pokemon if their down. You're team looks really offensive, and Spikes can annoy Blissey, so consider changing your Starmie to a Spinner.

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature
    • Rapid Spin
    • Hydro Pump
    • Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
    • Recover

    With a Spinner Starmie, you don't have to worry about entry hazards. With a notable speed and decent attack, it can take down some threats such as Gengar who gets OHKO'd by Hydro Pump.

    Hope I helped and good luck with the team.
  3. afterburn

    afterburn rattled
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    681
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    From the looks of your team, sand sweepers (SD Excadrill, Rock Polish Terrakion), Bulk Up Conkeldurr, CM Latias, CM / TR Reuniclus, and Quiver Dance Volcarona look problematic for you to face. All of these sweepers find ample set-up opportunities on Infernape locked into the wrong move, Excadrill and Conkeldurr also being able to set-up on Durant, the latter four sweepers also being able to get in a Calm Mind / Quiver Dance on -2 Hydregion. With a boost, they can all sweep you clean, while shrugging off your hits in the process. (i.e. Latias can take a U-turn from 'Ape, and just Recover)

    Replace Crustle with a Chople Berry Tyranitar. Not only does it provide you with a weather changer against sun / rain, but you're also able to check the numerous special attackers that threaten you. Latias and Reuniclus fail to do enough damage (you need to keep Chople safe for Reuniclus Focus Blast) while you can KO them with the appropriate attack (Crunch / Pursuit). Crustle has no job other than setting-up hazards, then dying, it also gives Excadrill and Terrakion free set-up. Tyranitar won't be dead weight as it doesn't only get the entry hazard up but also checks numerous threats. As for a Spikes user...

    Try Skarmory over Durant. I could say that Dragon- type attacks are troublesome to take from something like +1 Dragonite or CB Haxorus, since Durant doesn't have the bulk. While Tyranitar checks the Specially based threats, Skarmory is able to take on SD Excadrill, Bulk Up Conkeldurr as well as RP Terrakion with relative ease (If Terrakion SD's instead of RP, Ape / Starmie can revenge). It brings a better way of taking Dragon- type attacks and Physical threats, gets layers up just like Crustle (it does it better), and is a great defensive 'mon to fall back on with frail attackers such as Infernape and Starmie.

    Finally, to handle the Volcarona weakness, simply change Hidden Power Ice with Stone Edge on Infernape. You'll be able to revenge by being faster and getting in an OHKO. Also, on Starmie, try Rapid Spin over Thunderbolt or Ice Beam (Psyshock helps vs CM Virizion IMO) to mess with Stall and Hydro Pump over Surf, though that's up to you. Speaking of stall, if problematic, you can change Hydregion to Mixmence or Mixnite, but with Starmie using Rapid Spin (and Thunderbolt to hit Jellicent spin-blocking) it shouldn't be *too* annoying.

    Movesets:

    Chople Tyranitar / Skarmory (open)


    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (F) @ Chople Berry
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef OR 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 SDef w/ Brave nature
    Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spe)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    ---

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird
    ---


    GL
  4. KTVX

    KTVX

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Hey guys, thanks for your help! I've seen some interesting options.

    I think I like Skarmory better than Blissey, as Blissey is too soft physically and can't take dragon attacks bar Dragon Pulse/Meteor. Also, I've been in situations where I NEEDED a shuffler, and I was considering Skarm (though I forgot to write that), so after your arguments I'm definitely trying him.
    Also, I've never been in a situation where I needed the sheer power of Fire Blast, Flamethrower's always done the trick and KO'd the pokemon I needed dead in one shot, and I like its consistency, so I'm keeping it.

    I don't think I'm changing Starmie's moveset. I might replace Surf with Hydro Pump, but changing it to a spinner severely damages its ability to be threatening, as I lose either a STAB move or a part of the BoltBeam combo, so all of its attacks are really important. I don't have any particular weakness to SR, and I have Hydreigon and now Skarmory who ignore Spikes, and also Starmie shrugs off the poison from Toxic Spikes like a boss. If hazards become too annoying as I ladder up, I might consider that, but not for now.

    LK, I don't understand how having a Tyranitar will help against my weakness to the Sand Sweepers you mention, as he already provides Sandstorm so they don't even have to send their Tyranitar in, and most of my team will suffer from SS damage, which, when considering my pokemon's frailness, won't help much. It'd be more beneficial if it had Unnerve, but that ability isn't released yet =/. Perhaps a Swampert set could set up rocks and deal with those pokemon better? I'd still need to cover Reuniclus though.

    As for Infernape, Stone Edge is a move I miss, but I just can't sacrifice HP ice for it. I will try replacing U-turn for it, and see what happens.

    I will try the changes, meanwhile, any ideas you can suggest will be apreciated!
  5. afterburn

    afterburn rattled
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
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    Uh, I never said Tyranitar helps you against sand sweepers; even without Tyranitar on your team, teams containing sand sweepers will get their sandstorm up no matter what. I suggested Tyranitar because it was important to checking Latias and Reuniclus. But I see your point, Sand storm hurts 4/6 of your members. You could try Scizor instead of Tyranitar over Crustle. You could try a moveset of 252 HP | 40 Atk | 216 Spe with Leftovers, Adamant nature and Bullet Punch | Swords Dance | Bug Bite | Roost or a Choice Band set for extra momentum for an offensive team as yours with, Bullet Punch | Superpower | U-turn | Quick Attack, Adamant, 248 HP | 252 Atk | 8 Spe. Quick Attack is like a last ditch attempt to end Volcarona if SR is up, you'll find that you won't use Pursuit much. They both handle Reuniclus and Latias while also weakening out Physically based walls for Virizion to rip through. But now, you need to move Stealth Rock to Skarmory, replacing Brave Bird. This does leave you prone to Taunt users, so watch out. Oh also, don't even think about using Swampert lol, you're gonna go down very fast with that thing, and Ferrothorn, the #1 used 'mon is going to make it hell for you. Also, you're afraid of Stone Edge missing on Volcarona, but its helpful if you want to make sure mothra doesn't sweep you. You shouldn't miss HP ice too much, Dnite takes a chunk from Stone Edge after SR, while you have Lati@s hit by U-turn and switch to TTar / Scizor, to help out (whichever one you choose). Don't replace U-turn IMO, Infernape makes a great scout early game, and catching Starmie and the Lati twins with it is p. sweet. Plus, if you choose to go with CB Scizor, both will make a good U-turn combo, keeping the momentum in your favor.
  6. KTVX

    KTVX

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Yeah, I did try swampert, and it's pretty bad... But Skarmory is boss, first time I use him and he owns. Now, the problem is Brave Bird comes in handy with all those Breloom and Virizion around. I don't care that much about the Taunt part since Brave Bird against regular or resistant pokemon is almost the same as doing nothing so I'd have to switch out anyway. I guess I'll try it, and if I need BB badly, I'll just replace Spikes for SR.
    Looking at serebii's moveset calculator, I found Cradily, Bisharp, Bronzong, the lake trio, and Deoxys as interesting users of SR. Bisharp can also help me against pokemon like Reuniclus just like scizor, Cradily is immune to Leech Seed, Bronzong levitates and can set up screens, Uxie can help as a wall and Azelf is good at offense, and if I use normal Deoxys I can wreck havoc and before dying use SR. What do you think about these?
    Finally, I replaced U-turn and I don't miss it too much really. If I were to use Scizor I could do the dual U-turn trick, but I don't know. And no, Dragonite dies from Stone Edge after SR, but only with 252 Attack EVs, which I don't have, Salamence's intimidate stops it from working well, and Gliscor/Landorus laugh at it, unlike HP ice. That move makes Infernape extremely versatile, and allows me to revenge a huge list of things faster than infernape or that are at +1 (DD dragons for instance). It's a staple for Infernape that made frightening threats vanish in a turn many, many times.

    For now I'll try Scizor. If I have problems I'll try to adjust my other pokemon, and if I still have trouble I'll replace him.

    EDIT: After just a few battles, I noticed I have a massive fire weakness, so a pokemon like Heatran will be forcing switches all the time. I'll give Scizor Superpwer instead of... hmm, good question.. it's either Pursuit or Quick Attack =/
  7. KTVX

    KTVX

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Bump here. I tried Scizor, Heatran, Uxie, and then Jolteon, but no one does the trick... Once I got to the 1000 ranking zone rain teams started appearing, and I need someone who helps against them while not being dead weight against other teams... My most effective pokemon was Heatran, but rain ruins him D: Maybe Bronzong or Deoxys? help please
  8. SoT

    SoT Yes please!
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Try running a gastrodon. it'll help with rotoms too. Standard set, careful (+SpD -atk) 252 Hp 248 SpD 8 speed. Scald toxic recover earth power or ice beam. Sorry for the short and not really organized rate. I'm on my phone but just wanted to suggest that
  9. KTVX

    KTVX

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Thanks, I'll try that. Stealth rock will be moved to Skarm then.
  10. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    For combatting against rain teams specifically, Gastrodon is probably your best bet. However, I would consider running a Choice Scarf Rotom in place of Starmie. They hit most of the same things, as Rotom-W is very much capable of revenge killing Thundurus and dragons provided you run HP Ice. It also has great synergy with Scizor, U-Turn/ Volt Switch spam can rack up hazards damage for Hydreigon to exploit.

    Gastrodon
    Storm Drain
    Calm
    252 Hp/ 252 SpD/ 4 SpA
    Scald/ Ice Beam
    Earth Power/ Ice Beam
    Toxic
    Recover

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Levitate
    Timid
    252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpD
    Hydro Pump
    Volt Switch
    HP (Ice)/ HP (Fire)
    Trick
  11. KTVX

    KTVX

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    I did try gastrodon, but it didn't help much really. I was thinking that maybe the team's structure made it impossible for a single pokemon, out of 649 in existance, to take up that 6th spot, so I'll try with Rotom. The problem would be where to use SR, as Skarm only rarely finds a moment to set them, since he's there to wall and phaze.
    Lastly, it seems Infernape just isn't pulling his own weight now with all the rain teams, and seems to lack power to break through most pokemon now, so I think I'll make him pure physical or special. First I'll try with Rotom and Scizor, and if they work I'll readjust Infernape to the team's needs. Thanks!

    EDIT: Definitely there's something else that has to change. When you keep changing the "final touches" of anything (not just a pokemon team), then you have to start from scratch, or at least partially. So I took out Infernape, Scizor, and Skarm to rebuild on it. The only "perfect" pokemon is hydreigon really, maybe Virizion too, and to an extent, Starmie. Also I need more immunities and/or something really menacing, like a NP thundurus or DD dragon so that I can focus on a powerfull strategy rather than checking everything. Sure, the team's been efficient, but it's peak is at 1009 ranking, and if I want to get further I need to restructure things. I'll try to think of deeper changes, but meanwhile any suggestion is appreciated.

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