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Ninetales

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by PhoenixM, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. PhoenixM

    PhoenixM

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    Overview
    ########
    Ninetales might appear to be outclassed by Mega Charizard Y as a weather setter, but Ninetales has the advantages of holding a Heat Rock and not using up your team's Mega Evolution slot, opening up team options and providing longer-lasting weather to utilize. Being one of the only two Pokemon in OU with access to Drought, Ninetales is in an awkward position, as outside of the previously mentioned advantages, it has nothing significant to boast about. It has a shallow, albeit usable, movepool, relatively mediocre stats, and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Additionally, with the new limitations to Drought, Ninetales's survival is harder to maintain and more important than before.

    SubSplit
    ########
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Pain Split
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Flamethrower is the STAB move of choice, possessing respectable power in sun and perfect accuracy. The second slot is a toss-up between Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Will-O-Wisp burns physical attackers, providing an indirect buff to Ninetales's Defense and wearing down the opponent. However, Toxic hits threats that are immune to Will-O-Wisp, such as Mega Charizard X, Volcarona, and Talonflame, effectively crippling them. Substitute is used primarily to scout the opponent and block status at minimal risk. Pain Split gives Ninetales a method of recovering HP lost to Substitutes. It is somewhat unreliable, but can cripple an opponent and give Ninetales a cushion of health to work with for longer.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs and nature allows Ninetales to Speed tie with base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X, Salamence, Mega Medicham, Staraptor, and Volcarona and outspeed Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, Dragonite, and Gyarados.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Substitute is a great move for scouting Tyranitar as well as other Pokemon that are likely to take advantage of Ninetales. Ninetales can throw out a Substitute on an anticipated switch-in and proceed to safely status the opponent. Pokemon like Kyurem-B or Tyranitar will be unable to get past the Substitute without getting burned, and more defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon or Politoed can be crippled by Toxic. This set doesn't mind Stealth Rock as much as the RestTalk set, but try to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Pain Split works very well with Substitute, as it reduces Ninetales's HP in a safe way, allowing you to take a safe turn to Pain Split if required. Pokemon with Infiltrator don't care about Substitute and most of them will outspeed Ninetales, leading to a complete waste of HP if they switch in on Ninetales using Substitute.

    Team Options
    ========
    Ninetales is an integral part of any team based around sun, which makes proper team support mandatory. A Rapid Spin or Defog user is essential due to Ninetales's lack of reliable recovery and weakness to entry hazards. Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias deserves a special mention, as it can potentially eliminate some of the faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, provided they haven't boosted their Speed. Keep in mind that many of those Pokemon commonly carry a Choice Scarf, so additional caution is advised. Dragonite, Salamence, and Mega Charizard X may also use Dragon Dance on a switch, so you need to catch it before that. Latias also has access to Healing Wish, which may grant a vital team member a second chance.

    There is no point in using Ninetales without Pokemon to exploit the sunlight it exists for, and as such, Venusaur and Mega Venusaur make for great partners. They share no common weakness with Ninetales, and Mega Venusaur is neutral to Fire- and Ice-type moves. Venusaur is a threatening Chlorophyll sweeper, while Mega Venusaur is an incredibly bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona all make for fantastic sun sweepers. With sunlight boosting their already frightening Fire-type STAB moves to absurd levels along with their access to great boosting moves, they become terrifying sweepers once set-up.

    As Ninetales possesses a myriad of checks and counters, one must also consider team options to mitigate Ninetales's numerous weaknesses. Heatran is gifted with a great defensive typing and stats, immunity to Fire-type moves, and powerful Fire-type attacks in sunlight. Heatran shares a weakness to Ground-type moves with Ninetales, but can take many physical attacks that Ninetales cannot. Dugtrio can trap and KO a weakened threat such as Tyranitar that greatly hinders sunlight, destroy Heatran and dish out moderate damage to Goodra and Blissey. Fighting-type Pokemon such as Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good choices to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom are both capable partners as well; the former provides an alternative way to set up the sun and hits shockingly hard, while the latter is faster with base 115 Speed, can make full use of Solar Power, and has great coverage in its dual STAB.

    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 140 SpD / 120 Spe
    nature: Calm

    Moves
    ========
    Rest takes the first slot, as it keeps Ninetales alive in order to fulfill its singular role of keeping the sun up for as long as possible, while Sleep Talk prevents Ninetales from being useless when it is asleep. Flamethrower serves as its only attack, sporting decent power in the sun and perfect accuracy. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers, spreads burn for passive damage, and provides a great indirect buff to Ninetales's poor Defense.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs provide Ninetales with the Speed it needs to outpace maximum Speed Mega Tyranitar, but a spread of 248 HP / 156 SpD / 104 Spe with a Timid nature will give Ninetales enough Speed to outspeed all Kyurem-B that lack a Choice Scarf, allowing Ninetales to neuter Kyurem-B with Will-O-Wisp. The combination of Will-O-Wisp and Flamethrower leaves Ninetales with a severe lack of options against fellow Fire-types, however.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Ninetales should rarely be on the field, only coming back in to set the sunlight back up or on something it can wall without effort. Ninetales need not be brought in as frequently with eight turns of sunlight, but when it does switch in, avoid letting it take damage from entry hazards and any strong physical attacks. Outside of setting the sun up, Ninetales's goal is to spread burns before switching safely into something that can better draw upon the sunlight.

    Team Options
    ========
    As mentioned above, solid team support for Ninetales is vital. Users of Rapid Spin or Defog, such as Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias, are all great choices for this role. Latias also serves as a check to faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, assuming that they haven't boosted their Speed. However, Choice Scarf is a common item for many of said threats, so be wary. Latias also possesses Healing Wish, which can grant a vital team member a second chance.

    To give Ninetales's existence a purpose, there must also be teammates to utilize the sun. Venusaur and Mega Venusaur are both fantastic partners for Ninetales, sharing no common weaknesses with it. Venusaur becomes an amazing Chlorophyll sweeper, though Mega Venusaur becomes a very bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks and amazing recovery in sunlight. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona are all absurdly powerful sun sweepers. With access to setup moves on top of sun-boosted STAB moves, they can all become immediate threats. Heatran has great defensive potential, gets a sun boost on top of STAB, and gains further benefit from any Fire-type moves your opponent tosses around.

    Pokemon to handle Ninetales's extensive checks are very important as well. Heatran is able to tank many physical attacks that Ninetales is unable to, provided they are not Ground- or Fighting-type. Dugtrio traps and picks off weakened threats, wrecks Heatran, and does respectable damage to other checks. Fighting-type Pokemon such as Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good choices to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, Chansey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom both hit very hard and are quite difficult to switch into. Mega Charizard has the added benefit of acting as a secondary Drought user, while Mega Houndoom hits incredibly hard with Solar Power boosted Fire-type moves.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ninetales has few viable moves to deal with threats it can not normally handle. Sunny Day extends the duration of the sun and can be used if Ninetales is active on a turn where sun ends or another weather inducer switches in, allowing your team to keep momentum. When considering Hidden Power, Ninetales has a very difficult decision to make. Hidden Power Ground provides Ninetales with a decent option against Heatran and Chandelure, but leaves it open to Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y. Hidden Power Rock allows Ninetales to check Talonflame, Volcarona, and Mega Charizard Y, but will leave it vulnerable to Hippowdon, Tyranitar, and Garchomp. Hidden Power Ice hits many Dragon-type Pokemon fairly hard, but doesn't function well against the previously mentioned threats. Roar shuffles out threats and prevents Ninetales from being setup bait for Pokemon like Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, and Talonflame. Solar Beam is immediately usable thanks to Drought and dents any Water-types it might come in contact with. Hypnosis puts an opposing Pokemon to sleep, rendering it temporarily incapacitated. However, Hypnosis suffers from awful accuracy, making it a less appealing option for a status move. Nasty Plot exists as a way to boost Ninetales's lackluster Special Attack, but it will still have trouble with Pokemon with good special bulk, and a Nasty Plot set is almost entirely outclassed by Mega Charizard Y.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Weather Inducing Pokemon** You can change the weather with Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Politoed. This forces Ninetales to switch out and back in if it wishes to keep the sunlight shining. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can also Pursuit Ninetales on an attempted switch or attack it straight-out with little risk.

    **Water-types** Gyarados can switch in on any move other than Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, set up a Substitute on slower variants, and proceed to set up if Ninetales lacks Roar. Tentacruel doesn't mind being burned, can spin away hazards, and attack Ninetales at minimal risk. Manaphy doesn't care about much outside of Solar Beam and can use Tail Glow in Ninetales's face.

    **Fire-types** Heatran is likely the greatest Ninetales counter in existence. It is immune to most of Ninetales's options, gets a great boost from the sunlight, and becomes absurdly powerful if it gets hit by Flamethrower or Will-O-Wisp. Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona are immune to Will-O-Wisp, take little from Flamethrower, and can deal significant damage or even set up if Ninetales lacks Roar or Toxic.

    **Specially Defensive Pokemon** Anything with significant Special Defense that is relatively unaffected by getting burned is a good counter. Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey all care little about getting burned and take little damage from Ninetales's moves. Goodra threatens Ninetales with powerful special moves, while Blissey and Chansey threaten to status it. Assault Vest Conkeldurr takes Flamethrower relatively well, actually benefits from getting burned, and deals frightening damage in return.

    **Fast Physical Attackers ** Anything faster than Ninetales with good Attack or priority moves make the poor fox cry bitter tears. Terrakion, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Salamence, and Dragonite all dislike being burned, but commonly carry a Choice Scarf (or in Dragonite's case, Extreme Speed) and wreck Ninetales with powerful physical attacks.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  2. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    This should be in Bullet Point form, not written form.
    Alter likes this.
  3. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    If you're going to do an analysis on it, at least spell the fucking thing's name correctly. It's "Ninetales" not "Ninetails." And, as Magcargo 2 stated, this should be in bullet points. You do not actually start writing until after QC.
  4. PhoenixM

    PhoenixM

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    I'll fix that right away. Sorry about that. Edit: I'm very sorry about that, I got my stuff mixed up. I'll continue this in the morning as I'm dead tired right now. Thanks for the feedback in any case.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  5. CyclicCompound

    CyclicCompound ,,,@ ::
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    Make sure you write include in the overview that Ninetales faces competition from Mega Charizard Y as a sun inducer. I'd say that Ninetales' main niche over Mega Charizard is being able to hold Heat Rock, making it less of a standalone attacker and more of a team supporter.
  6. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous

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    Since weather is no longer permanent, "winning the weather war" by preserving Ninetales is no longer of the utmost importance. Because of this I think that the two defensively minded sets you have posted are outclassed by Ninetales' offensive sets, because frankly Ninetales' defences don't cut it and she would much rather make use of that lovely sun-boosted STAB 110BP Fire Blast she has. I'm not QC but I would add an offensive set and put it top.
  7. PhoenixM

    PhoenixM

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    I will add an offensive set, but in my experience the defensive sets are superior.
  8. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    no offensive tales is an abomination

    you need tales to survive longer than ever this generation BECAUSE sun is no longer permanent. you want to be able to set up sun multiple times; therefore, a defensive set suits it.

    whether we need two is an entirely different question...will bring more comments later.
    CyclicCompound likes this.
  9. Tainic

    Tainic

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    Sunny Day could go somewhere, as it greatly helps Nineteles at keeping the sun on the field, and reduces the number of time it'll have to switch in. (Because, you know, Ttar still exists.)
  10. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    QC APPROVED 1/3
  11. Namso

    Namso
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    I don't particularly agree with the Hypnosis slash. Ninetales's one and only job is to keep sun up as much as possible, and so I believe Pain Split is the better option if one chooses to neglect RestTalk. This gives it a relatively decent means of recovering HP and the needed longevity to continue setting up the sun for its team. Hypnosis itself is a pretty underwhelming move in that it has a 40% miss rate and sleep itself is not that strong anymore. I would rather run Toxic if you are worried about Charizard. Also, the majority of Heatran are specially defensive nowadays too, so it's not going to do a whole lot with Earth Power while you just Pain Split back HP and reduce theirs. And, again, I'm of the opinion that Ninetales is just there to provide sun as often and effective as possible and potentially burn things with Will-O-Wisp.
    CyclicCompound likes this.
  12. Namso

    Namso
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    Moves

    You should say that Rest provides the healing it needs in order to continually set up sun as much as it possibly can; it's one and only job.

    Mention Pain Split + Roar instead of Rest + Sleep Talk, but is generally inferior.

    Set Details
    Remove point 2 and 3, those don't belong in set details.

    Usage Tips

    Mention that Ninetales really should only be brought in to only set up sun or in dire emergencies, such as being used as death fodder or if it can wall something easily. This is because it needs to be preserved and kept healthy to provide its team with sun support. When Ninetales is brought in, it's typically best to begin throwing out Will-O-Wisps to cripple the opposition, assuming they don't have anything to take advantage of that.

    Team Options

    What are good examples of Rapid Spin/Defog users that work on sun teams?

    Mention specific Pokemon that take good advantage of sun.

    I don't know what point 3 is doing there, since you've mention Chlorophyll users already above. Remove that.

    What are these common counters and what are these Pokemon?

    Checks & Counters

    Ninetales will never lack Will-O-Wisp, so remove that in the Tyranitar/Hippowdon mention. You can instead say they cancel Ninetales's sunlight.

    Mention Politoed for obvious reasons.

    Assault Vest Conkeldurr is an excellent counter with Guts.

    What are examples of such Taunt users?

    Be more specific in your analysis, but good work.

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  13. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    why do you want to outrun max speed tyranitar...those are all jolly dd variants that mevolve, min speed with assault vest, less than max with cb, or outrun you with a choice scarf.

    at this point in time, my preferred spread is 104 timid, enough for max speed kyurem-b, which can be increased to 248 if you are intent on outrunning things like shift gear, band, all non-scarf genesect, but that's not that worth it imo, especially since gene does shit damage to you...anyways i think enough for cube is worth a set details mention.

    the standard baseline should probably be 120 w/ calm to outrun max jolly megatar, but if you only think that's worth set details then make what you currently have 36 evs, which hits 245 speed, enough for 72 spe gliscor.
  14. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    The best Tales set is this one:

    SubSplit
    ########
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Pain Split
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Max Speed to tie with threatening MEvos such as Medicham and Mega Char, and status or attack them before the shitty fox dies. Outspeeding Kyu-B is great as well, as you don't want to give a free Sub to this thing when you have a sun team. Sub scouts nicely for Tyranitar and the other 100 Pokemon that can take advantage of Ninetales. Use a status move if the situation calls for it or you can just switch out and repeat the Sub spamming later. Pain Split is good for when you are in low HP and works great with the lack of recovery, Sub, SR weakness, and low HP of Tales, so it's one of the most creative things that Tales can do to foes when on low life. This thing can usually switch in twice in each game, giving you ~16 turns of sun usually, which is plenty for HO teams. All this, provided you are not playing against a rain / sand team of course. If you do face one of them, you have to resort to team support and clever playing to come on top, but it's doable.

    Anyway, this is the Tales set for sun HO, which is still a good and viable plastysyle, unlike common opinion.

    Oh, and one of the best partners for Tales is Defog Latias, so be sure to stress it. Draco Meteor / Defog / Hidden Power Fire / Healing Wish are the moves, with LO / lefties as items. Defog Latias is one of the biggest buffs that sun HO received.
  15. PhoenixM

    PhoenixM

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    Been gone for a few days, I'll continue it when I get back tomorrow.
  16. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Hmmm...
    This part kind of stumps me - in particular when you mentioned Latias checking Mega Charizard X. If Zard X Dragon Dances Latias can only check it with a Scarf of its own. Actually a lot of these Pokemon mentioned outspeed Latias after a single Dragon Dance (Salamence, Dragonite) and two of the three carry Scarf. Goodra vs. Latias isn't really a hot situation either. Mention that Latias can check some of these threats provided they haven't boosted their Speed (whether through Dragon Dance or through Choice Scarf).

    I'm also surprised Zapdos wasn't mentioned. In the sun it gets boosted Heat Wave which compensates for the lack of Hidden Power Ice somewhat. You still have Thunderbolt to harass Water-types including Rotom-W too.
    Most Dugtrio run Focus Sash nowadays and Choice Band runs into huge risks when being locked into Earthquake after Dugtrio kills someone off. You want to mention that Focus Sash Dugtrio will eliminate Tyranitar which can hamper sunlight of course (it's mentioned so you don't have to be too redundant) and still checks Heatran. Reversal Dugtrio can also check Blissey but it is rocky to mention. There are better Pokemon to eliminate Blissey nowadays anyway.
    Well sort of.

    The main reason people used Sunny Day Ninetales back in Generation 5 (and would likely be a pivotal reason to use it in Generation 6) is because of your common switch-ins - Tyranitar now in particular - boasts the capability of shutting down your precious weather and, usually, forcing Ninetales out. With Sunny Day you can catch Tyranitar on the switch and still keep your sun for 8 turns (assuming Heat Rock) and free usage of Solar Beam. Speaking of Solar Beam... it's not anywhere on any of these sets. It's not even in Other Options. It wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't for this sentence:
    It's also Solar Beam by the way.

    Mention Hypnosis in OO. It's kind of crappy but it is a possible way to shut down potential troublemakers that Ninetales and Sun teams could face.
  17. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    okay, we went over a good amount of stuff on irc so i'll make this quick

    SubSplit

    Usage Tips

    Describe the playstyle of SubSplit a little better. You Sub up, and use Pain Split to heal up with your depleted HP.

    Mention specific usage cases of WoW and Toxic, like you Sub up and burn physical attackers to neuter them, Toxic against [mostly defensive] Pokemon that are crippled by it.

    Other Options

    Toxic is slashed on one of the sets, so I don't think you need to mention it in OO.

    With those nitpicks fixed, this is QC Approved 3/3.
  18. PhoenixM

    PhoenixM

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    Ninetales is now ready for Copyediting.
  19. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    I'm working on an amcheck for this analysis, but I'm stuck on something. There's quite a bit of repetition in the team options sections, as they are nearly identical. Is there any way to differentiate the two in content?

    This GP check was done fairly quickly, as the internet at my house turns off in two minutes ;_;. I promise I would've done a more thorough job if I had time. However, hopefully the changes I made help your analysis!

    Show Hide

    Overview
    ########
    Looking at Ninetales, it may appear to be outclassed by Mega Charizard Y as a weather setter, but Ninetales has access to Heat Rock and doesn't use up your team's Mega Evolution, opening up team options and providing longer lasting weather to abuse. Being one of only two Pokemon in OU with Drought, Ninetales is in an awkward position, as outside of the aforementioned advantages, Ninetales has nothing significant to boast about. It has a shallow albeit usable movepool, relatively mediocre stats, and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Furthermore, with the new limitations to Drought, Ninetales's survival is harder to maintain and more important than before.

    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 140 SpD / 120 Spe
    nature: Calm

    Moves
    ========
    Rest takes the first slot as it keeps Ninetales alive, in order to fulfill its singular role of keeping the sun up as long as possible, while Sleep Talk prevents Ninetales from being useless while it is asleep. Flamethrower serves as its only attack, sporting decent power in the sun and perfect accuracy. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers, spreads burn for passive damage, and provides a great indirect buff to Ninetales's poor Defense.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs provide Ninetales with the Speed it needs to outpace maximum speed Mega Tyranitar, but a spread of 248 HP / 156 SpD / 104 Spe with a Timid nature gives it enough Speed to burn all Kyurem-B that lack a Choice Scarf. The combination of Will-O-Wisp and Flamethrower leaves Ninetales with a severe lack of options against fellow Fire-types.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Ninetales should rarely be on the field, only coming back in to set the sunlight back up or on something it can wall without effort. Switching in Ninetales is made less frequent with 8 turns of sunlight, but when Ninetales switches in, avoid letting it take damage from entry hazards and strong physical attacks. When Ninetales does switch in, its goal is to spread burns before switching safely into something that can better abuse the sunlight.

    Team Options
    ========
    Ninetales is an integral part of any sun based team, which makes proper team support mandatory. Rapid Spin or Defog is essential due to Ninetales's lack of reliable recovery and weakness to entry hazards. Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias deserves a special mention as it can potentially eliminate some of the faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, provided they haven't boosted their Speed. Keep in mind that many of those Pokemon commonly carry a Choice Scarf, so additional caution is advised. Dragonite, Salamence, and Mega Charizard X may also use Dragon Dance on a switch, so you need to catch it before that. Latias also has access to Healing Wish, which may grant a vital team member a second chance.

    There is no point in using Ninetales without Pokemon to abuse the sunlight it exists for, and as such, Venusaur and Mega Venusaur make great partners for it. They share no common weakness with Ninetales, and Mega Venusaur is neutral to Fire- and Ice-type moves. Venusaur is a threatening Chlorophyll sweeper while Mega Venusaur is an incredibly bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona all make for fantastic sun sweepers. With sunlight boosting their already frightening Fire-type STAB moves to absurd levels, along with access to great boosting moves, they become terrifying sweepers once set up.

    As Ninetales posses a myriad of checks and counters, one must also consider team options to mitigate Ninetales's numerous weaknesses. Heatran is gifted with great defensive typing and stats, immunity to Fire, and powerful Fire-type moves in sunlight. Heatran shares a weakness to Ground-type moves with Ninetales, but can take many physical attacks that Ninetales cannot. Dugtrio can trap and KO a weakened threat such as Tyranitar, which greatly hinders sunlight, destroy Heatran, and dish out moderate damage to Goodra and Blissey. Fighting-type Pokemon such as Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good choices to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom are both capable partners, as Mega Charizard Y provides an alternative way to set up the sun while hitting shockingly hard, while Mega Houndoom benefits greatly from the sunlight due to Solar Power, has great coverage in its dual STABs, and possesses a base 115 Speed.

    SubSplit
    ########
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Pain Split
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Speed
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Flamethrower is the STAB move of choice, possessing respectable power in sun and perfect accuracy. The second slot is a toss up between Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Will-O-Wisp burns physical attackers, providing an indirect buff to Ninetales's defense while wearing down the opponent. However, Toxic hits threats that immune to Will-O-Wisp, such as Mega Charizard X, Volcarona, and Talonflame, effectively crippling them. Substitute is used primarily to scout the opponent and block status while taking minimal risk. Pain Split gives Ninetales a method of recovering HP lost to Substitutes. It is somewhat unreliable, but can cripple an opponent while giving Ninetales a cushion of health to work with for longer.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs and nature allows Ninetales to speed tie with base 100s such as Mega Charizard X, Salamence, Mega Medicham, Staraptor, and Volcarona, while outspeeding Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, Dragonite, and Gyarados.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Substitute is a great move for scouting Tyranitar as well as other Pokemon that are likely to take advantage of Ninetales. Ninetales can throw out a Substitute on an anticipated switch-in and proceed to safely status the opponent. Pokemon like Kyurem-B or Tyranitar will be unable to get past the Substitute without getting burned while more defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon or Politoed can be crippled by Toxic. This Ninetales set doesn't mind Stealth Rock as much as the RestTalk set, but try to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Pain Split works very well with Substitute, as it reduces your HP in a safe way, allowing you to take a safe turn to Pain Split if required. Pokemon with Infiltrator don't care about Substitute and most of them will outspeed Ninetales anyways, leading to a complete waste of HP.


    Team Options
    ========
    As mentioned above, solid team support for Ninetales is vital. A user of Rapid Spin or Defog such as Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias also serves as a check to faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B assuming they haven't boosted their Speed. However, Choice Scarf is a common item for many, so be wary. Latias also possesses Healing Wish, which may grant a vital team member a second chance.

    To give Ninetales's existence a purpose, there must also be sun abusers to abuse the sun. Venusaur and Mega Venusaur are both fantastic partners for Ninetales, sharing no common weaknesses with it. Venusaur becomes an amazing Chlorophyll sweeper while Mega Venusaur becomes an very bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks and amazing recovery in sunlight. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona are all absurd sun sweepers. With access to setup moves on top of sun boosted STAB moves, they can all become an immediate threat. Heatran has great defensive potential, gets a sun boost on top of STAB, and gains further benefit from any Fire Type moves your opponent may be tossing around.

    Pokemon to handle Ninetales's extensive checks are very important as well. Heatran is able to tank many physical attacks that Ninetales is unable to provided they are not Ground- or Fighting-type. Dugtrio traps and picks off weakened threats, wrecks Heatran, and does respectable damage to other checks. Fighting-type Pokemon like Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey/Chansey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom both hit very hard and are quite difficult to switch into. Mega Charizard has the added benefit of acting as a secondary Drought user while Mega Houndoom hits incredibly hard with Solar Power-boosted Fire-type moves.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ninetales has few viable moves to deal with threats it cannot normally handle. Sunny Day may extend the sun if Ninetales is active on a turn where sun would end, such as another weather inducer switching in, allowing you to keep momentum. If considering Hidden Power, Ninetales has a very difficult decision to make. Hidden Power Ground provides Ninetales with a decent option against Heatran and Chandelure, but leaves it open to Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y. Hidden Power Rock allows Ninetales to check Talonflame, Volcarona, and Mega Charizard Y, but will leave it vulnerable to Hippowdon, Tyranitar, and Garchomp. Hidden Power Ice hits many Dragon-type Pokemon, but it does not hit the majority of the previously mentioned threats nearly as hard. Roar shuffles out threats and prevents Ninetales from being setup bait for Pokemon like Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, and Talonflame. Solar Beam is immediately usable and dents any Water Types it may come in contact with. Hypnosis may put an opposing Pokemon to sleep, rendering it temporarily incapacitated. However, Hypnosis suffers from awful accuracy, making it a less appealing option for a status move. Nasty Plot exists as a way to boost Ninetales's lackluster Special Attack, but it will still have trouble with Pokemon with good special bulk and a Nasty Plot set is almost entirely outclassed by Mega Charizard Y.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Countering Ninetales works in a number of ways. You can change the weather with Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Politoed. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can Pursuit Ninetales on the attempted switch or attack it straight out. Ninetales also has few methods of dealing with fellow Fire Types and Water Types. Gyarados can switch in on any move other than Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, set up a Substitute and proceed to set up if Ninetales lacks Roar. Tentacruel doesn't mind the burn, can spin away hazards or attack Ninetales at minimal risk. Manaphy doesn't care about much outside of Solar Beam and can Tail Glow in Ninetales's face. Heatran is likely the greatest Nintales counter in existence. It is immune to most of Ninetales's options, gets a great benefit from the sunlight, and becomes absurdly powerful if it gets hit by Flamethrower / Will-O-Wisp. Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona are immune to Will-O-Wisp, take little from Flamethrower and can deal significant damage or even set up if Ninetales lacks Roar or Toxic. Anything with significant Special Defense that is relatively unaffected by getting burned is a good counter. Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey all care little about getting burned, take little damage from Ninetales moves, and Goodra threatens it with powerful special moves while Blissey and Chansey threaten Status. Assault Vest Conkeldurr takes Flamethrower relatively well, actually benefits from getting burned, and deals frightening damage in return. Finally anything faster than Ninetales with good Attack or priority moves make the poor fox cry bitter tears. Terrakion, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Salamence, and Dragonite all dislike being burned, but commonly carry a Choice Scarf (or in Dragonite's case, Extreme Speed) and wreck Ninetales with powerful physical attacks.


    Show Hide

    Overview
    ########
    Looking at Ninetales, it may appear to be outclassed by Mega Charizard Y as a Drought uweather setter, but Ninetales has the benefits of holding aaccess to Heat Rock and nodoesn't usinge up your team's Mega Evolution, opening up team options and providing longer lasting weather to abuse. Being one of only two Pokemon in OU with access to iDrought, Ninetales is in an awkward position. O, as outside of having access to Drought and Heat Rockthe aforementioned advantages, Ninetales has nothing significant to boast about. It has a shallow albeit usable movepool, relatively mediocre stats, and isa weakness to Stealth Rock. AdditionallyFurthermore, with Droughtthe new limitasting upons to 8 turns, theDrought, Ninetales's survival of Ninetales is both harder to maintain and more important than before.

    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 140 SpD / 120 Spe
    nature: Calm

    Moves
    ========
    Rest takes the first slot as it is what keeps Ninetales alive, in order to fulfill its singular role on your team,f keeping the sun up for as long as possible, while Sleep Talk prevents Ninetales from being useless whilen it is asleep. Flamethrower serves as theits only attack, sporting decent power in the sun as well asnd perfect accuracy. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers and, spreads burn for solid passive damage, and provides an great indirect buff to Ninetales's poor physical Defense.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs provide Ninetales with the Speed it needs to outpace maximum speed Mega Tyranitar, but a spread of 248 HP / 156 SpD / 104 Spe with a Timid willnature give yous it enough Speed to burn all Kyurem-B that lack a Choice Scarf. The combination of Will-O-Wisp +and Flamethrower combination leaves Ninetales with a severe lack of options against fellow Fire T-types.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Ninetales should rarely be on the field, only coming back in to set the sunlight back up or on something it can wall without effort. Switching in Ninetales is made less frequent with 8 turns of sunlight, but when Ninetales switch ies made into Ninetales, avoid letting it take damage from entry hazards and strong physical attacks or switching into entry hazards. When Ninetales does get switched in, theits goal is to spread burns before getting it back out and switching safely into something that can better abuse the sunlight.

    Team Options
    ========
    Ninetales is an integral part of any sun based team, which makes proper team support mandatory. A user of Rapid Spin or Defog is essential due to Ninetales's lack of reliable recovery and weakness to entry hazards. Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias deserves a special mention as it can potentially eliminate some of the faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, provided they haven't boosted their Speed. Keep in mind that many of those Pokemon commonly carry a Choice Scarf, so additional caution is advised. Dragonite, Salamence, and Mega Charizard X may also use Dragon Dance on a switch, so you need to catch it before that. Latias also has access to Healing Wish, which may grant a vital team member a second chance.

    Along with team support, tThere is no point in using Ninetales without Pokemon to abuse the sunlight it exists for., and as such, Venusaur and Mega Venusaur both make great partners for Ninetales. Both of themThey share no common weakness with Ninetales, whileand Mega Venusaur is neutral to Fire- and Ice T-type moves. Venusaur becomeis a threatening Chlorophyll sweeper while Mega Venusaur becomeis an incredibly bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona all make for fantastic sun sweepers. With sunlight boosting their already frightening Fire T-type STAB moves up to absurd levels, along with access to great boosting moves, they become terrifying sweepers once set up.

    As Ninetales posses a myriad of counterhecks and checkounters, one must also consider team options to mitigate Ninetales's numerous weaknesses. Heatran is gifted with great defensive typing and stats, immunity to Fire, and powerful Fire T-type moves in sunlight. Heatran shares a weakness withto Ground T-type moves with Ninetales, but can take many physical attacks that Ninetales winces at the thought ofcannot. Dugtrio can trap and KO a weakened threat such as Tyranitar that, which greatly hinders sunlight, while destroying Heatran, and dishing out moderate damage to Goodra and Blissey. Fighting T-type Pokemon likesuch as Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good choices to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, and Goodra,. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom are both capable partners., as Mega Charizard Y provides an alternative way to set up the sun while hitting shockingly hard., while Mega Houndoom receivebenefits great benefitly from the sunlight withdue to Solar Power and, has great coverage in its dual STABs, and Bpossesses a base 115 Speed.

    SubSplit
    ########
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Pain Split
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Speed
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Flamethrower is the STAB move of choice, possessing respectable power in sun and perfect accuracy. The second slot is a toss up between Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Will-O-Wisp burns physical attackers, providing an indirect buff to Ninetales's defense while wearing down the opponent. However, Toxic hits threats that don't carimmune abouto Will-O-Wisp, such as Mega Charizard X, Volcarona, and Talonflame, effectively crippling them. Substitute is used primarily to scout the opponent and block status while taking minimal risk. Pain Split gives Ninetales a method of recovering HP lost to Substitutes. It is somewhat unreliable, but can cripple an opponent while giving Ninetales a cushion of health to work with for longer.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs and Nnature allow yous Ninetales to speed tie Bwith base 100 Speed Pokemons such as Mega Charizard X, Salamence, Mega Medicham, Staraptor, and Volcarona, while outspeeding Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, Dragonite, and Gyarados.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Substitute is a great move for scouting Tyranitar as well as other Pokemon that are likely to take advantage of Ninetales. Ninetales can throw out a Substitute on an anticipated switch-in and proceed to safely status the opponent. Pokemon like Kyurem-B or Tyranitar will be unable to get past the Substitute without getting burned while more defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon or Politoed can be crippled by Toxic. This Ninetales set doesn't mind Stealth Rock as much as the RestTalk set, but try to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Pain Split works very well with Substitute, as it reduces your HP in a safe way, allowing you to take a safe turn to Pain Split if required. Pokemon with Infiltrator don't care about Substitute and most of them will outspeed Ninetales anyways, leading to a complete waste of HP.


    Team Options
    ========
    As mentioned above, solid team support for Ninetales is vital. A user of Rapid Spin or Defog such as Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias also serves as a check to faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B assuming they haven't boosted their Speed. However, Choice Scarf is a common item for many, so be wary. Latias also possesses Healing Wish, which may grant a vital team member a second chance.

    To give Ninetales's existence a purpose, there must also be sun abusers to abuse the sun. Venusaur and Mega Venusaur are both fantastic partners for Ninetales, sharing no common weaknesses with it. Venusaur becomes an amazing Chlorophyll sweeper while Mega Venusaur becomes an very bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks and amazing recovery in sunlight. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona are all absurd sun sweepers. With access to setup moves on top of sun boosted STAB moves, they can all become an immediate threat. Heatran has great defensive potential, gets a sun boost on top of STAB, and gains further benefit from any Fire Type moves your opponent may be tossing around.

    Pokemon to handle Ninetales's extensive checks are very important as well. Heatran is able to tank many physical attacks that Ninetales is unable to provided it isthey are not Ground- or Fighting T-type. Dugtrio traps and picks off weakened threats, wrecks Heatran, and does respectable damage to other checks. Fighting T-type Pokemon like Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey/Chansey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom both hit very hard and are quite difficult to switch into. Mega Charizard has the added benefit of acting as a secondary Drought user while Mega Houndoom hits incredibly hard with Solar Power -boosted Fire T-type moves.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ninetales has few viable moves to take care ofdeal with threats it can not normally handle. Sunny Day may extend the sun if Ninetales is active on a turn where sun would end, such as another weather inducer switching in, allowing you to keep momentum up. If considering Hidden Power, Ninetales has a very difficult decision to make. Hidden Power Ground provides Ninetales with a decent option against Heatran and Chandelure, but leaves it open to Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y. Hidden Power Rock willallows Ninetales to check Talonflame, Volcarona, and Mega Charizard Y, but will leave Nit vulnetarables open to Hippowdon, Tyranitar, and Garchomp. Hidden Power Ice hits many Dragon-type Pokemon, but it does not hit the majority of the dragons faipreviously mentioned threats nearly as hard. Roar shuffles out threats and prevents Ninetales from being setup bait for Pokemon like Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, and Talonflame. Solar Beam is immediately usable and dents any Water Types it may come in contact with. Hypnosis may put an opposing Pokemon to sleep, rendering it temporarily incapacitated, h. However, itHypnosis suffers from awful accuracy, making it a less appealing option for a status move. Nasty Plot exists as a way to boost Ninetales's lackluster Special Attack, but it will still hasve trouble with Pokemon with good special bulk and a Nasty Plot set is almost entirely outclassed by Mega Charizard Y.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Countering Ninetales works in a number of ways. You can change the weather with Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Politoed. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can Pursuit Ninetales on the attempted switch or attack it straight out. Ninetales also has few methods of dealing with fellow Fire Types and Water Types. Gyarados can switch in on any move other than Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, set up a Substitute and proceed to set up if Ninetales lacks Roar. Tentacruel doesn't mind the burn, can spin away hazards or attack Ninetales at minimal risk. Manaphy doesn't care about much outside of Solar Beam and can Tail Glow in Ninetales's face. Heatran is likely the greatest Nintales counter in existence. It is immune to most of Ninetales's options, gets a great benefit from the sunlight, and becomes absurdly powerful if it gets hit by Flamethrower / Will-O-Wisp. Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona are immune to Will-O-Wisp, take little from Flamethrower and can deal significant damage or even set up if Ninetales lacks Roar or Toxic. Anything with significant Special Defense that is relatively unaffected by getting burned is a good counter. Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey all care little about getting burned, take little damage from Ninetales moves, and Goodra threatens it with powerful special moves while Blissey and Chansey threaten Status. Assault Vest Conkeldurr takes Flamethrower relatively well, actually benefits from getting burned, and deals frightening damage in return. Finally anything faster than Ninetales with good Attack or priority moves make the poor fox cry bitter tears. Terrakion, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Salamence, and Dragonite all dislike being burned, but commonly carry a Choice Scarf (or in Dragonite's case, Extremes Speed) and wreck Ninetales with powerful physical attacks.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  20. GamingShawn

    GamingShawn

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    EDIT: We meet again blitzlefan...

    Amateur check here

    Additions
    Removals
    (Comments)

  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,696
    SubSplit should be the first set mentioned. RestTalk is a huge momentum killer on offensive teams, which are the best kind of teams to use Ninetales in.
  22. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,362
    Sorry but i'll have to implement the first one ~_~
    Show Hide


    Overview
    ########
    Looking at Ninetales, it may might appear to be outclassed by Mega Charizard Y as a weather setter, but Ninetales has access to Heat Rock and doesn't use up your team's Mega Evolution slot, opening up team options and providing longer lasting weather to abuse(use utilize or any other word but never ever ever abuse). Being one of only two Pokemon in OU with Drought, Ninetales is in an awkward position, as outside of the aforementioned advantages, Ninetales has nothing significant to boast about. It has a shallow albeit usable movepool, relatively mediocre stats, and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Furthermore, with the new limitations to Drought, Ninetales's survival is harder to maintain and more important than before.

    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 140 SpD / 120 Spe
    nature: Calm

    Moves
    ========
    Rest takes the first slot,(AC) as it keeps Ninetales alive,(RC) in order to fulfill its singular role of keeping the sun up as long as possible, while Sleep Talk prevents Ninetales from being useless while it is asleep. Flamethrower serves as its only attack, sporting decent power in the sun and perfect accuracy. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers, spreads burn for passive damage, and provides a great indirect buff to Ninetales's poor Defense.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs provide Ninetales with the Speed it needs to outpace maximum speed Mega Tyranitar, but a spread of 248 HP / 156 SpD / 104 Spe with a Timid nature gives it enough Speed to outspeed burn all Kyurem-B that lack a Choice Scarf; Ninetales can then proceed to neuter Kyurem-B with Will-O-Wisp. The combination of Will-O-Wisp and Flamethrower leaves Ninetales with a severe lack of options against fellow Fire-types.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Ninetales should rarely be on the field, only coming back in to set the sunlight back up or on something it can wall without effort. Switching in Ninetales is made less frequent with 8 eight turns of sunlight, but when Ninetales switches in, avoid letting it take damage from entry hazards and strong physical attacks. When Ninetales does switch in, its goal is to spread burns before switching safely into something that can better abuse(see previous comment) the sunlight.

    Team Options
    ========
    Ninetales is an integral part of any sun based team based around sun, which makes proper team support mandatory. Rapid Spin or Defog support is essential due to Ninetales's lack of reliable recovery and weakness to entry hazards. Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias deserves a special mention,(AC) as it can potentially eliminate some of the faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, provided they haven't boosted their Speed. Keep in mind that many of those Pokemon commonly carry a Choice Scarf, so additional caution is advised. Dragonite, Salamence, and Mega Charizard X may also use Dragon Dance on a switch, so you need to catch it before that. Latias also has access to Healing Wish, which may can grant a vital team member a second chance.

    There is no point in using Ninetales without Pokemon to abuse(abusing 'abuse' imo) the sunlight it exists for, and as such, Venusaur and Mega Venusaur make for great partners for it. They share no common weakness with Ninetales, and Mega Venusaur is neutral to Fire- and Ice-type moves. Venusaur is a threatening Chlorophyll sweeper while Mega Venusaur is an incredibly bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona all make for fantastic sun sweepers. With sunlight boosting their already frightening Fire-type STAB moves to absurd levels, along with access to great boosting moves, they become terrifying sweepers once set-(AH)up.

    As Ninetales posses a myriad of checks and counters, one must also consider team options to mitigate Ninetales's numerous weaknesses. Heatran is gifted with great defensive typing and stats, immunity to Fire, and powerful Fire-type moves in sunlight. Heatran shares a weakness to Ground-type moves with Ninetales, but can take many physical attacks that Ninetales cannot. Dugtrio can trap and KO a weakened threat such as Tyranitar, which greatly hinders sunlight, destroy Heatran, and dish out moderate damage to Goodra and Blissey. Fighting-type Pokemon such as Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good choices to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom are both capable partners, as Mega Charizard Y provides an alternative way to set up the sun while hitting shockingly hard, while Mega Houndoom benefits greatly from the sunlight due to Solar Power, has great coverage in its dual STABs, and possesses a base 115 Speed.

    SubSplit
    ########
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Pain Split
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Speed
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Flamethrower is the STAB move of choice, possessing respectable power in sun and perfect accuracy. The second slot is a toss-(AH)up between Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Will-O-Wisp burns physical attackers, providing an indirect buff to Ninetales's defense while wearing down the opponent. However, Toxic hits threats that immune to Will-O-Wisp, such as Mega Charizard X, Volcarona, and Talonflame, effectively crippling them. Substitute is used primarily to scout the opponent and block status while taking minimal risk. Pain Split gives Ninetales a method of recovering HP lost to Substitutes. It is somewhat unreliable, but can cripple an opponent while giving Ninetales a cushion of health to work with for longer.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs and nature allows Ninetales to speed tie with base 100s such as Mega Charizard X, Salamence, Mega Medicham, Staraptor, and Volcarona, while outspeeding Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, Dragonite, and Gyarados.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Substitute is a great move for scouting Tyranitar as well as other Pokemon that are likely to take advantage of Ninetales. Ninetales can throw out a Substitute on an anticipated switch-in and proceed to safely status the opponent. Pokemon like Kyurem-B or Tyranitar will be unable to get past the Substitute without getting burned while more defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon or Politoed can be crippled by Toxic. This Ninetales set doesn't mind Stealth Rock as much as the RestTalk set, but try to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Pain Split works very well with Substitute, as it reduces your HP in a safe way, allowing you to take a safe turn to Pain Split if required. Pokemon with Infiltrator don't care about Substitute and most of them will outspeed Ninetales anyways, leading to a complete waste of HP.(what is the last sentence referring to??)


    Team Options
    ========
    As mentioned above, solid team support for Ninetales is vital. A user Users of Rapid Spin or Defog such as Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias also serves as a check to faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B,(AC) assuming that they haven't boosted their Speed. However, Choice Scarf is a common item for many of said threats, so be wary. Latias also possesses Healing Wish, which may can grant a vital team member a second chance.

    To give Ninetales's existence a purpose, there must also be sun abusers to abuse the sun. Venusaur and Mega Venusaur are both fantastic partners for Ninetales, sharing no common weaknesses with it. Venusaur becomes an amazing Chlorophyll sweeper while Mega Venusaur becomes an very bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks and amazing recovery in sunlight. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona are all absurd sun sweepers. With access to setup moves on top of sun-(AH)boosted STAB moves, they can all become an immediate threat. Heatran has great defensive potential, gets a sun boost on top of STAB, and gains further benefit from any Fire Type Fire-type moves your opponent may be tossing tosses around.

    Pokemon to handle Ninetales's extensive checks are very important as well. Heatran is able to tank many physical attacks that Ninetales is unable to provided they are not Ground- or Fighting-type. Dugtrio traps and picks off weakened threats, wrecks Heatran, and does respectable damage to other checks. Fighting-type Pokemon like such as Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey/Chansey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom both hit very hard and are quite difficult to switch into. Mega Charizard has the added benefit of acting as a secondary Drought user while Mega Houndoom hits incredibly hard with Solar Power-boosted Fire-type moves.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ninetales has few viable moves to deal with threats it cannot normally handle. Sunny Day may extend extends the sun duration, and can be used if Ninetales is active on a turn where sun would end where sun ends , such as or another weather inducer switching switches in, allowing your team to keep momentum. If When considering Hidden Power, Ninetales has a very difficult decision to make. Hidden Power Ground provides Ninetales with a decent option against Heatran and Chandelure, but leaves it open to Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y. Hidden Power Rock allows Ninetales to check Talonflame, Volcarona, and Mega Charizard Y, but will leave it vulnerable to Hippowdon, Tyranitar, and Garchomp. Hidden Power Ice hits many Dragon-type Pokemon, but it does not hit the majority of the previously mentioned threats nearly as hard. Roar shuffles out threats and prevents Ninetales from being setup bait for Pokemon like Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, and Talonflame. Solar Beam is immediately usable and dents any Water Types it may Water-types that it might come in contact with. Hypnosis may put puts an opposing Pokemon to sleep, rendering it temporarily incapacitated. However, Hypnosis suffers from awful accuracy, making it a less appealing option for a status move. Nasty Plot exists as a way to boost Ninetales's lackluster Special Attack, but it will still have trouble with Pokemon with good special bulk,(AC) and a Nasty Plot set is almost entirely outclassed by Mega Charizard Y.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Countering Ninetales works can be approached in a number of ways. You can change the weather with Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Politoed. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can Pursuit Ninetales on the attempted switch or attack it straight-(AH)out. Ninetales also has few methods of dealing with fellow Fire Types and Water Types Fire- and Water-types. Gyarados can switch in on any move other than Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, set up a Substitute and proceed to set up if Ninetales lacks Roar. Tentacruel doesn't mind the burn, can spin away hazards or attack Ninetales at minimal risk. Manaphy doesn't care about much outside of Solar Beam and can use Tail Glow in on Ninetales's face. Heatran is likely the greatest Nintales Ninetales counter in existence. It is immune to most of Ninetales's options, gets a great benefit boost from the sunlight, and becomes absurdly powerful if it gets hit by Flamethrower / or Will-O-Wisp. Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona are immune to Will-O-Wisp, take little from Flamethrower,(AC) and can deal significant damage or even set up if Ninetales lacks Roar or Toxic. Anything with significant Special Defense that is relatively unaffected by getting burned is a good counter. Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey all care little about getting burned, take little damage from Ninetales moves, and Goodra threatens it with powerful special moves while Blissey and Chansey threaten Status to status it. Assault Vest Conkeldurr takes Flamethrower relatively well, actually benefits from getting burned, and deals frightening damage in return. Finally anything faster than Ninetales with good Attack or priority moves make the poor fox cry bitter tears. Terrakion, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Salamence, and Dragonite all dislike being burned, but commonly carry a Choice Scarf (or in Dragonite's case, Extreme Speed) and wreck Ninetales with powerful physical attacks.

    blitzlefan and GamingShawn you can see the stuff you missed here
    @pheonixm you kept on using 'while' everywhere, please rephrase most mentions.
    Withholding approval till then.
  23. PhoenixM

    PhoenixM

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    33
    GamingShawn and blitzlefan like this.
  24. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    amcheck


    amcheck (open)

    Overview
    ########
    Ninetales might appear to be outclassed by Mega Charizard Y as a weather setter, but Ninetales has the advantages of holding a Heat Rock and doesn'not useing up your team's Mega Evolution slot, opening up team options and providing longer -lasting weather to utilize. Being one of the only two Pokemon in OU with access to itHowever, Ninetales is in an awkward position, as outside of the aforementioned advantages, Ninetales has nothing significant to boast about. It has a shallow, albeit usable, movepool, relatively mediocre stats, and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Additionally, with the new limitations to Drought, Ninetales's survival is harder to maitain and more important than before.


    SubSplit
    ########
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Pain Split
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Speed
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Flamethrower is the STAB move of choice, possessing respectable power in sun and perfect accuracy. The second slot is a toss-up between Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Will-O-Wisp burns physical attackers, providing an indirect buff to Ninetales's defense and wearing down the opponent. However, Toxic hits threats that are immune to Will-O-Wisp, such as Mega Charizard X, Volcarona, and Talonflame, effectively crippling them. Substitute is used primarily to scout the opponent and block status at minimal risk. Pain Split gives Ninetales a method of recovering HP lost, particularly from Substitutes. It is somewhat unreliable, but can cripple an opponent and give Ninetales a cushion of health to work with for longer.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs and nature allows Ninetales to speed tie with base 100 Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X, Salamence, Mega Medicham, Staraptor, and Volcarona, and outspeed Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, Dragonite, and Gyarados.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Substitute is a great move for scouting for Tyranitar, as well as other Pokemon that are likely to take advantage of Ninetales. Ninetales can throw out a Substitute on an anticipated switch-in and proceed to safely status the opponent. Pokemon like Kyurem-B or Tyranitar will be unable to get past the Substitute without getting burned, asnd more defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon or Politoed can be crippled by Toxic, depending on your choice of status. This Ninetales set doesn't mind Stealth Rock as much as the RestTalk set, but try to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Pain Splubstitute works very well with Pain Substplitute, as it reduces your HP in a safe way, allowing you to take a safe turn to Pain Split if required. Pokemon with Infiltrator don't care about Substitute and most of them will outspeed Ninetales, leading to a complete waste of HP if they switch in on Ninetales using Substitute.

    Team Options
    ========
    Ninetales is an integral part of any team based around sunusing it, which makes proper team support mandatory. A Rapid Spin or Defog user is essential due to Ninetales's lack of reliable recovery and weakness to entry hazards. Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias deserves a special mention, as it can potentially eliminate some of the faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, provided they haven't boosted their Speed. Keep in mind that many of those Pokemon commonly carry a Choice Scarf, so additional caution is advised. Dragonite, Salamence, and Mega Charizard X may also use Dragon Dance on a switch, so you need to catch it before that. Latias also has access to Healing Wish, which may grant a vital team member a second chance.

    There is no point in using Ninetales without Pokemon to exploit the sunlight it exists for, and as such, Venusaur and Mega Venusaur make for great partners. They share no common weakness with Ninetales, and Mega Venusaur is neutral to Fire- and Ice-type moves. Venusaur is a threatening Chlorophyll sweeper while Mega Venusaur is an incredibly bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona all make for fantastic sun sweepers. With sunlight boosting their already frightening Fire-type STAB moves to absurd levels along with access to great boosting moves, they become terrifying sweepers once set- up.

    As Ninetales possesses a myriad of checks and counters, one must also consider team options to mitigate Ninetales's numerous weaknesses. Heatran is gifted with great defensive typing and stats, immunity to Fire-type, and powerful Fire-type moves in sunlight. Heatran shares a weakness to Ground-type moves with Ninetales, but can take many physical attacks that Ninetales cannot. Dugtrio can trap and KO a weakened threat, such mash Tyranitar that greatly hinders sunlight, destroys Heatran and dishing out moderate damage to Goodra and Blissey. Fighting-type Pokemon such as Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good choices to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, and Goodra,. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom are both capable partners. Mega Charizard Y provides an alternative way to set up the sun and hits shockingly hard. Mega Houndoom receives greatly benefits from the sunlight with Solar Power and has great coverage inwith its dual STAB and, plus it has base 115 Speed.
    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 140 SpD / 120 Spe
    nature: Calm

    Moves
    ========
    Rest takes the first slot, as it keeps Ninetales alive in order to fulfill its singular role of keeping the sun up for as long as possible, while Sleep Talk prevents Ninetales from being useless when it is asleep. Flamethrower serves as its only attack, sporting decent power in the sun and perfect accuracy. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers, spreads burn for passive damage, and provides a great indirect buff to Ninetales's poor Defense.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs provide Ninetales with the Speed it needs to outpace maximum Speed Mega Tyranitar, but a spread of 248 HP / 156 SpD / 104 Spe with a Timid nature will give Ninetales enough Speed to outspeed all neutral-natured Kyurem-B that lack a Choice Scarf; and proceed tot which point it can neuter Kyurem-B with Will-O-Wisp T. Note that the combination of Will-O-Wisp and Flamethrower leaves Ninetales with a severe lack of options against fellow Fire-types.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Ninetales should rarely be on the field, only coming back in to set the sunlight back up or on something it can wall without effort. Switching in Ninetales is made less frequent with eight turns of sunlight, but when Ninetales comes in, avoid letting it take damage from entry hazards and any strong physical attacks. When Ninetales does switch in, its goal is to spread burns before switching safely into something that can better draw upon the sunlight.

    Team Options
    ========
    As mentioned above, solid team support for Ninetales is vital. Users of Rapid Spin or Defog such as Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias also serves as a check to faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, assuming that they haven't boosted their Speed. However, Choice Scarf is a common item for many of saithe aforementioned threats, so be wary. Latias also possesses Healing Wish, which can grant a vital team member a second chance.

    To give Ninetales's existence a purpose, there must also be teammates to utilize the sun. Venusaur and Mega Venusaur are both fantastic partners for Ninetales, sharing no common weaknesses with it. Venusaur becomes an amazing Chlorophyll sweeper though, and Mega Venusaur becomeis an very bulky Pokemon withat now has access to powerful attacks and amazing recovery in sunlight. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona are all absurd sun sweepers. With access to setup moves on top of sun-boosted STAB moves, they can all become an immediate threat. Heatran has great defensive potential, gets a sun boost on top of STAB, and gains further benefit from any Fire-type moves your opponent tosses around via Flash Fire.

    Pokemon to handle Ninetales's extensive checks are very important as well. Heatran is able to tank many physical attacks that Ninetales is unable to, provided they are not Ground- or Fighting-type. Dugtrio traps and picks off weakened threats, wrecks Heatran and does respectable damage to other checks. Fighting- type Pokemon like Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey/Chansey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom both hit very hard and are quite difficult to switch into. Mega Charizard has the added benefit of acting as a secondary Drought user as, while Mega Houndoom hits incredibly hard with Solar Power boosted Fire-type moves.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ninetales has few viable moves to deal with threats it can not normally handle. Sunny Day extends the sun duration, and can be used if Ninetales is active on a turn where sun ends or another weather inducer switches in, allowing your team to keep momentum. When considering Hidden Power, Ninetales has a very difficult decision to make. Hidden Power Ground provides Ninetales with a decent option against Heatran and Chandelure, but leaves it open to Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y. Hidden Power Rock allows Ninetales to check Talonflame, Volcarona, and Mega Charizard Y, and still hits Chandelure hard, but will leave it vulnerable to Hippowdon, Tyranitar, eatrand Garchomp. Hidden Power Ice hits many Dragon-type Pokemon fairly hard, but doesn't function well against the previously mentioned threats. Roar shuffles out threats and prevents Ninetales from being setup bait for Pokemon like Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, and Talonflame. Solar Beam is immediately usable and dents any Water-types it might come in contact with. Hypnosis puts an opposing Pokemon to sleep, rendering it temporarily incapacitated. However, Hypnosis suffers from awful accuracy, making it a less appealing option for a status move. Nasty Plot exists as a way to boost Ninetales's lackluster Special Attack, but it will still have trouble with Pokemon with good special bulk, and a Nasty Plot set is almost entirely outclassed by Mega Charizard Y.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Weather inducing Pokemon** You can change the weather with Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Politoed. This forces Ninetales to switch out and back in if it has any desire to keep the sunlight shining. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can also Pursuit Ninetales on an attempted switch, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar can attack it straight-out with little risk, as can any variant of Politoed.

    **Water-types** Gyarados can switch in on any move other than Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, set up a Substitute on slower variants, and proceed to set up if Ninetales lacks Roar. Tentacruel doesn't mind the burn, can spin away hazards, or attack Ninetales at minimal risk. Manaphy doesn't care about much outside of Solar Beam and can use Tail Glow on Ninetales's face.

    **Fire-types** Heatran is likely the greatest Ninetales counter in existence. It is immune to most of Ninetales's options, gets a great boost from the sunlight, and becomes absurdly powerful if it gets hit by Flamethrower or Will-O-Wisp. Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona are immune to Will-O-Wisp, take little from Flamethrower, and can deal significant damage or even set up if Ninetales lacks Roar or Toxic.

    **Specially defensive Pokemon** Anything with significant Special Defense that is relatively unaffected by getting burned is a good counter. Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey all care little about getting burned and take little damage from Ninetales's moves. Goodra threatens Ninetales with powerful special moves as Blissey and Chansey threaten to status it. Assault Vest Conkeldurr takes Flamethrower relatively well, actually benefits from getting burned, and deals frightening damage in return.

    **Fast physical attackers ** Anything faster than Ninetales with good Attack or priority moves make the poor fox cry bitter tears. Terrakion, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Salamence, and Dragonite all dislike being burn(with Extremespeed), but commonly carry a Choiand Salamence Scarf (or in Dragonite's case Extreme Speed) andall dislike being burned, but wreck Ninetales with powerful physical attacks.


    amcheck (open)

    Comments:
    You know, i wonder if it might be worth mentioning that Ninetales lets you use Mega Charizard X in sun?
    The sentence about it's 'awkward position' is super weird. The fact that Ninetales is one of two pokemon to have it isn't what makes it awkward, it being mostly outclassed is what makes it awkward. With that said, you should mention in the movepool section that it has one or two moves that Charizard lacks, and that its Stealth Rock weakness is only singular, not double.
    Toxic...also...provides way more weardown...which is the main reason to use it... i.e. to legitimately harm foes you have no real other way of dealing with.
    Pain Split also lets you heal off normal damage done.
    Why the hell would Kyurem-B switch into ninetales? It's got little to switch into and a high chance of getting burned to the face. At least mention something that resists fire/doesn't mind burn. And why do you keep mentioning it as a threat?
    I elaborated on the status sub part, since you make it sound a bit like you can do both.
    Do most Pokemon with Infiltrator KO ninetales? Because you didn't really clarify and they actually might not.
    That Latias mention of being able to eliminate those faster threats is kinda flimsy all told, as latias has trouble switching into all of those pokemon except terrakion, which it can't even necessarily KO. Also it resists water and is immune to ground, two useful traits for a Latias supporter.]
    Healing Wish can give Ninetales, and thus your Sun, a second chance at life as well, you know.
    What the hell does Mega Venusaur have to do in sun? Okay, so it gets Solarbeam, can abuse Synthesis, and can bust out Hp fire, but are you sure it's really any good, or even better, than normal Venusaur in sun?
    'Heatran can take many physical attacks that ninetales cannot'. Such as...what, precisely? It's weak to ground, and water, and neutral to rock. At least name a few;I assume they're mostly outrages and brave birds.
    Are we talking Sash Reversaltrio here, btw? because we should be and in that case ttar is gg'd as hell. With defog/rapid spin support in place it shouldn't be too hard to keep Sr off until you can use that sash.
    Firstly, you forgot to mention the secondary restalk spread only outspeeds neutral-natured Kyurem-blacks. Secondly...252 Spe can still outspeed that spread, you'd need 112 Timid for that. Did you even check this?
    A little copypaste-y on the second set of Ninetales teammates. Okay, so there's little to say about them, so consider referencing what you already said. i.e. 'as said above', etc.
    Rewrote a bit the OO hidden power and Weather checks and counters section. But it needed it.
    ...which slower variants is Gyarados setting up on...? Your slowest mentioned spread outspeeds it unless it's max speed positive natured, or close. Which doesn't run Sub, generally. And what does Tentacruel attack it with in sun? And where is starmie in all of this?
  25. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,482
    amcheck


    amcheck (open)

    Overview
    ########
    Ninetales might appear to be outclassed by Mega Charizard Y as a weather setter, but Ninetales has the advantages of holding a Heat Rock and doesn'not useing up your team's Mega Evolution slot, opening up team options and providing longer -lasting weather to utilize. Being one of the only two Pokemon in OU with access to itHowever, Ninetales is in an awkward position, as outside of the aforementioned advantages, Ninetales has nothing significant to boast about. It has a shallow, albeit usable, movepool, relatively mediocre stats, and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Additionally, with the new limitations to Drought, Ninetales's survival is harder to maitain and more important than before.


    SubSplit
    ########
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Flamethrower
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Pain Split
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Speed
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    Flamethrower is the STAB move of choice, possessing respectable power in sun and perfect accuracy. The second slot is a toss-up between Will-O-Wisp and Toxic. Will-O-Wisp burns physical attackers, providing an indirect buff to Ninetales's defense and wearing down the opponent. However, Toxic hits threats that are immune to Will-O-Wisp, such as Mega Charizard X, Volcarona, and Talonflame, effectively crippling them. Substitute is used primarily to scout the opponent and block status at minimal risk. Pain Split gives Ninetales a method of recovering HP lost, particularly from Substitutes. It is somewhat unreliable, but can cripple an opponent and give Ninetales a cushion of health to work with for longer.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs and nature allows Ninetales to speed tie with base 100 Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X, Salamence, Mega Medicham, Staraptor, and Volcarona, and outspeed Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, Dragonite, and Gyarados.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Substitute is a great move for scouting for Tyranitar, as well as other Pokemon that are likely to take advantage of Ninetales. Ninetales can throw out a Substitute on an anticipated switch-in and proceed to safely status the opponent. Pokemon like Kyurem-B or Tyranitar will be unable to get past the Substitute without getting burned, asnd more defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon or Politoed can be crippled by Toxic, depending on your choice of status. This Ninetales set doesn't mind Stealth Rock as much as the RestTalk set, but try to keep the field clear of entry hazards. Pain Splubstitute works very well with Pain Substplitute, as it reduces your HP in a safe way, allowing you to take a safe turn to Pain Split if required. Pokemon with Infiltrator don't care about Substitute and most of them will outspeed Ninetales, leading to a complete waste of HP if they switch in on Ninetales using Substitute.

    Team Options
    ========
    Ninetales is an integral part of any team based around sunusing it, which makes proper team support mandatory. A Rapid Spin or Defog user is essential due to Ninetales's lack of reliable recovery and weakness to entry hazards. Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias deserves a special mention, as it can potentially eliminate some of the faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, provided they haven't boosted their Speed. Keep in mind that many of those Pokemon commonly carry a Choice Scarf, so additional caution is advised. Dragonite, Salamence, and Mega Charizard X may also use Dragon Dance on a switch, so you need to catch it before that. Latias also has access to Healing Wish, which may grant a vital team member a second chance.

    There is no point in using Ninetales without Pokemon to exploit the sunlight it exists for, and as such, Venusaur and Mega Venusaur make for great partners. They share no common weakness with Ninetales, and Mega Venusaur is neutral to Fire- and Ice-type moves. Venusaur is a threatening Chlorophyll sweeper while Mega Venusaur is an incredibly bulky Pokemon with access to powerful attacks. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona all make for fantastic sun sweepers. With sunlight boosting their already frightening Fire-type STAB moves to absurd levels along with access to great boosting moves, they become terrifying sweepers once set- up.

    As Ninetales possesses a myriad of checks and counters, one must also consider team options to mitigate Ninetales's numerous weaknesses. Heatran is gifted with great defensive typing and stats, immunity to Fire-type, and powerful Fire-type moves in sunlight. Heatran shares a weakness to Ground-type moves with Ninetales, but can take many physical attacks that Ninetales cannot. Dugtrio can trap and KO a weakened threat, such mash Tyranitar that greatly hinders sunlight, destroys Heatran and dishing out moderate damage to Goodra and Blissey. Fighting-type Pokemon such as Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good choices to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, and Goodra,. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom are both capable partners. Mega Charizard Y provides an alternative way to set up the sun and hits shockingly hard. Mega Houndoom receives greatly benefits from the sunlight with Solar Power and has great coverage inwith its dual STAB and, plus it has base 115 Speed.
    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Flamethrower
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp
    ability: Drought
    item: Heat Rock
    evs: 248 HP / 140 SpD / 120 Spe
    nature: Calm

    Moves
    ========
    Rest takes the first slot, as it keeps Ninetales alive in order to fulfill its singular role of keeping the sun up for as long as possible, while Sleep Talk prevents Ninetales from being useless when it is asleep. Flamethrower serves as its only attack, sporting decent power in the sun and perfect accuracy. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers, spreads burn for passive damage, and provides a great indirect buff to Ninetales's poor Defense.

    Set Details
    ========
    The given EVs provide Ninetales with the Speed it needs to outpace maximum Speed Mega Tyranitar, but a spread of 248 HP / 156 SpD / 104 Spe with a Timid nature will give Ninetales enough Speed to outspeed all neutral-natured Kyurem-B that lack a Choice Scarf; and proceed tot which point it can neuter Kyurem-B with Will-O-Wisp T. Note that the combination of Will-O-Wisp and Flamethrower leaves Ninetales with a severe lack of options against fellow Fire-types.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Ninetales should rarely be on the field, only coming back in to set the sunlight back up or on something it can wall without effort. Switching in Ninetales is made less frequent with eight turns of sunlight, but when Ninetales comes in, avoid letting it take damage from entry hazards and any strong physical attacks. When Ninetales does switch in, its goal is to spread burns before switching safely into something that can better draw upon the sunlight.

    Team Options
    ========
    As mentioned above, solid team support for Ninetales is vital. Users of Rapid Spin or Defog such as Forretress, Mandibuzz, and Latias are all great choices for this role. Latias also serves as a check to faster threats to Ninetales, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Goodra, Terrakion, Mega Charizard X, and Kyurem-B, assuming that they haven't boosted their Speed. However, Choice Scarf is a common item for many of saithe aforementioned threats, so be wary. Latias also possesses Healing Wish, which can grant a vital team member a second chance.

    To give Ninetales's existence a purpose, there must also be teammates to utilize the sun. Venusaur and Mega Venusaur are both fantastic partners for Ninetales, sharing no common weaknesses with it. Venusaur becomes an amazing Chlorophyll sweeper though, and Mega Venusaur becomeis an very bulky Pokemon withat now has access to powerful attacks and amazing recovery in sunlight. Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Volcarona are all absurd sun sweepers. With access to setup moves on top of sun-boosted STAB moves, they can all become an immediate threat. Heatran has great defensive potential, gets a sun boost on top of STAB, and gains further benefit from any Fire-type moves your opponent tosses around via Flash Fire.

    Pokemon to handle Ninetales's extensive checks are very important as well. Heatran is able to tank many physical attacks that Ninetales is unable to, provided they are not Ground- or Fighting-type. Dugtrio traps and picks off weakened threats, wrecks Heatran and does respectable damage to other checks. Fighting- type Pokemon like Terrakion, Infernape, and Mega Lucario are all good to check threats such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey/Chansey, and Goodra. Mega Charizard Y and Mega Houndoom both hit very hard and are quite difficult to switch into. Mega Charizard has the added benefit of acting as a secondary Drought user as, while Mega Houndoom hits incredibly hard with Solar Power boosted Fire-type moves.

    Other Options
    ########
    Ninetales has few viable moves to deal with threats it can not normally handle. Sunny Day extends the sun duration, and can be used if Ninetales is active on a turn where sun ends or another weather inducer switches in, allowing your team to keep momentum. When considering Hidden Power, Ninetales has a very difficult decision to make. Hidden Power Ground provides Ninetales with a decent option against Heatran and Chandelure, but leaves it open to Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y. Hidden Power Rock allows Ninetales to check Talonflame, Volcarona, and Mega Charizard Y, and still hits Chandelure hard, but will leave it vulnerable to Hippowdon, Tyranitar, eatrand Garchomp. Hidden Power Ice hits many Dragon-type Pokemon fairly hard, but doesn't function well against the previously mentioned threats. Roar shuffles out threats and prevents Ninetales from being setup bait for Pokemon like Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, and Talonflame. Solar Beam is immediately usable and dents any Water-types it might come in contact with. Hypnosis puts an opposing Pokemon to sleep, rendering it temporarily incapacitated. However, Hypnosis suffers from awful accuracy, making it a less appealing option for a status move. Nasty Plot exists as a way to boost Ninetales's lackluster Special Attack, but it will still have trouble with Pokemon with good special bulk, and a Nasty Plot set is almost entirely outclassed by Mega Charizard Y.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Weather inducing Pokemon** You can change the weather with Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Politoed. This forces Ninetales to switch out and back in if it has any desire to keep the sunlight shining. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can also Pursuit Ninetales on an attempted switch, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar can attack it straight-out with little risk, as can any variant of Politoed.

    **Water-types** Gyarados can switch in on any move other than Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, set up a Substitute on slower variants, and proceed to set up if Ninetales lacks Roar. Tentacruel doesn't mind the burn, can spin away hazards, or attack Ninetales at minimal risk. Manaphy doesn't care about much outside of Solar Beam and can use Tail Glow on Ninetales's face.

    **Fire-types** Heatran is likely the greatest Ninetales counter in existence. It is immune to most of Ninetales's options, gets a great boost from the sunlight, and becomes absurdly powerful if it gets hit by Flamethrower or Will-O-Wisp. Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Volcarona are immune to Will-O-Wisp, take little from Flamethrower, and can deal significant damage or even set up if Ninetales lacks Roar or Toxic.

    **Specially defensive Pokemon** Anything with significant Special Defense that is relatively unaffected by getting burned is a good counter. Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey all care little about getting burned and take little damage from Ninetales's moves. Goodra threatens Ninetales with powerful special moves as Blissey and Chansey threaten to status it. Assault Vest Conkeldurr takes Flamethrower relatively well, actually benefits from getting burned, and deals frightening damage in return.

    **Fast physical attackers ** Anything faster than Ninetales with good Attack or priority moves make the poor fox cry bitter tears. Terrakion, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Salamence, and Dragonite all dislike being burn(with Extremespeed), but commonly carry a Choiand Salamence Scarf (or in Dragonite's case Extreme Speed) andall dislike being burned, but wreck Ninetales with powerful physical attacks.


    amcheck (open)

    Comments:
    You know, i wonder if it might be worth mentioning that Ninetales lets you use Mega Charizard X in sun?
    The sentence about it's 'awkward position' is super weird. The fact that Ninetales is one of two pokemon to have it isn't what makes it awkward, it being mostly outclassed is what makes it awkward. With that said, you should mention in the movepool section that it has one or two moves that Charizard lacks, and that its Stealth Rock weakness is only singular, not double.
    Toxic...also...provides way more weardown...which is the main reason to use it... i.e. to legitimately harm foes you have no real other way of dealing with.
    Pain Split also lets you heal off normal damage done.
    Why the hell would Kyurem-B switch into ninetales? It's got little to switch into and a high chance of getting burned to the face. At least mention something that resists fire/doesn't mind burn. And why do you keep mentioning it as a threat?
    I elaborated on the status sub part, since you make it sound a bit like you can do both.
    Do most Pokemon with Infiltrator KO ninetales? Because you didn't really clarify and they actually might not.
    That Latias mention of being able to eliminate those faster threats is kinda flimsy all told, as latias has trouble switching into all of those pokemon except terrakion, which it can't even necessarily KO. Also it resists water and is immune to ground, two useful traits for a Latias supporter.]
    Healing Wish can give Ninetales, and thus your Sun, a second chance at life as well, you know.
    What the hell does Mega Venusaur have to do in sun? Okay, so it gets Solarbeam, can abuse Synthesis, and can bust out Hp fire, but are you sure it's really any good, or even better, than normal Venusaur in sun?
    'Heatran can take many physical attacks that ninetales cannot'. Such as...what, precisely? It's weak to ground, and water, and neutral to rock. At least name a few;I assume they're mostly outrages and brave birds.
    Are we talking Sash Reversaltrio here, btw? because we should be and in that case ttar is gg'd as hell. With defog/rapid spin support in place it shouldn't be too hard to keep Sr off until you can use that sash.
    Firstly, you forgot to mention the secondary restalk spread only outspeeds neutral-natured Kyurem-blacks. Secondly...252 Spe can still outspeed that spread, you'd need 112 Timid for that. Did you even check this?
    A little copypaste-y on the second set of Ninetales teammates. Okay, so there's little to say about them, so consider referencing what you already said. i.e. 'as said above', etc.
    Rewrote a bit the OO hidden power and Weather checks and counters section. But it needed it.
    ...which slower variants is Gyarados setting up on...? Your slowest mentioned spread outspeeds it unless it's max speed positive natured, or close. Which doesn't run Sub, generally. And what does Tentacruel attack it with in sun? And where is starmie in all of this?

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