NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

[Quagsires]

My reasoning for the vote was that I feel he was extremely defensive and overreacted to Sam pressuring him, and I have admitted that he has acted differently, yet I still want an explanation, since that seems to be the post he was most under pressure and I think he responded rather badly. Since no one else shares that goal and apparently its not being given merit (not to mention what I see as a very different behavior that makes it look like it could be something else) I might as well remove. To anyone confused, I have said all of this before in my initial post voting Paperblade, but I should not have assumed people would put those two posts together with the link in my last post.

Kok and Unclesam, I never said that, I have said though I am against lists of players so long as they are biased towards directly stating you believe anyone to be town, as did Unclesam with B_T. That gives the mafia information. I am in favor of people listing suspicions, which I don't really see why I would ever be against, or any sane villager for that matter.

Also, I said MK off of inactivity and I expected more, not just inactivity, although I do understand that the same logic can be applied to anyone thinking I am a good vote. He has done nothing to make me change my opinion, and I’m just short of voting for him based off of this, and I will should he leave for the night and not post. To give some credit to him, this is the first NOC, but it is also Snype’s...

And Ditto, I liked old avatar was better. Though it was old...

 

[UncleSam]

My reasoning for the vote was that I feel he was extremely defensive and overreacted to Sam pressuring him, and I have admitted that he has acted differently, yet I still want an explanation, since that seems to be the post he was most under pressure and I think he responded rather badly. Since no one else shares that goal and apparently its not being given merit (not to mention what I see as a very different behavior that makes it look like it could be something else) I might as well remove. To anyone confused, I have said all of this before in my initial post voting Paperblade, but I should not have assumed people would put those two posts together with the link in my last post.

Kok and Unclesam, I never said that, I have said though I am against lists of players so long as they are biased towards directly stating you believe anyone to be town, as did Unclesam with B_T. That gives the mafia information. I am in favor of people listing suspicions, which I don't really see why I would ever be against, or any sane villager for that matter.

Also, I said MK off of inactivity and I expected more, not just inactivity, although I do understand that the same logic can be applied to anyone thinking I am a good vote. He has done nothing to make me change my opinion, and I’m just short of voting for him based off of this, and I will should he leave for the night and not post. To give some credit to him, this is the first NOC, but it is also Snype’s...

And Ditto, I liked old avatar was better. Though it was old...

Ok this is really, really unhelpful. You basically just repeat what you said before (what ABOUT Paperblade's post seemed defensive? Where did you see him overreacting?), say ONCE AGAIN that posting information for everyone to see is somehow "helping the mafia" (for the village to know ANYTHING in an NOC game the mafia has to know it as well...), then repeat the "MK Ultra is suspicious with the inactivity" thought that has been stated multiple times by other users already and frankly is just so passive that it strikes me as you weakly attacking a teammate just so that it won't appear he is buddying you when you are lynched and shown to be mafia.

What other users do you think are suspicious? Why did you look at this thread for an hour last night and not respond? Why have you been so passive and inactive and generally unhelpful? How many votes are going to have to be piled on you for you to say something that contributes to the discussion?

Oh right, and also what did you "not say" that me and kok said you did?

 

[billymills]

To be fair I think Yeti is telling him to stop looking at this thread and do something else.

 

[UncleSam]

That's funny because I was just about to call Yeti out on not discussing Quagsires at all in her most recent post.

Edit@below: I meant in a post with that as it's primary focus and not as an edited-in aside at the end of a long post.

 

[billymills]

I thought you did that in 298.

 

[Yeti]

hey unclesam you can suck a hairy bear's muff

i'll post about quags, when i post about quags, after i eat, maybe your starving african kind idolizing the american ideals doesn't know what 'food' is.

 

[Staraptor Call]

Updated list of suspicions:

1. billymills. Not only do my points from earlier still stand, but billy accuses me of distracting attention from Quagsires when he is doing exactly the same thing. He also acted defensively by FoSing me after I accused him.
2. Quagsires. After he was accused of acting scummy, he voted Paperblade with minimal evidence. After being called out, Quagsires has responded by repeating himself and explaining his accusation with vague statements like "not to mention what I see as a very different behavior that makes it look like it could be something else."
3. MK Ultra. Seems to be active-lurking, which could be a sign of scum trying to stay under the radar. At the time of this post, MK Ultra was last on at 3:21 PM, GMT -8, but he didn't post anything. His previous posts haven't been very helpful either.
4. Talking Lion. More like Not Talking Lion. He gave a few weakly-explained reads early on, and has barely posted since then. He was last on at 2:21, so he's been active lurking too.
5. Metal Bagon. Was last active at 10:35 without posting. The same things I said about the other active lurkers go for him as well.

In short, we need to press the active lurkers harder for their opinions. As for my being on for an hour before posting, I had to take a long time to carefully read through the thread to come up with what I was going to say, and had to go afk more than once in the process.

 

[billymills]

You're pointing out idlers and then me and my suspect. You have come up with nothing remotely interesting by yourself and you have not answered my questions about your suspicions in my previous post.

You are attacking easy targets and you are reusing others' arguments.

 

[Ditto]

I'm not saying we don't lynch anyone, US. That would be idiotic. Even lynching a villager is better than nothing, otherwise we won't have any reads after N1 kills.

Also, big point that I somehow missed is that Leethoof was apparently persuaded and forgot about it? I don't think any player, no matter how noobtown, could forget they were persuaded while posting with that persuasion. While I still feel we need to get Quagsires to speak more, I think that Leethoof is a lot scummier. Maybe I am oblivious, which is certainly possible, but why is there not more focus on that.

@@Lynch Leethoof@@

 

[Leethoof]

Apparently, next to Quagsires, im lynch target #2. I understand this, as I have made several confusing posts, and frankly, suck at reading. However, US asked me earlier two questions (I would prefer if you guys could give me specific questions, instead of saying 'post more', as I clearly have no idea what to post)

Quagsires: Quagsires said "paperblade is kind of scummy" and then the bandwagon decided that Quagsires was auto-mafia. To understand wtf is going on, we have to go back to what prompted that Pblade post. He decided to point out Unclesam's rolefishing for the announcer early on, which UncleSam got defensive about, and then PBlade got counter-defensive about after UncleSam somewhat raged at him. This makes absolutely nothing scummy about Pblade's post in my opinion. Therefore, I think Quags was trying to start and unnecessary bandwagon, though he may have just been misreading PBlade's post. Therefore, suspicious to me, but not neccesarily auto-mafia since PBlade's post was easy to get out of context.

Who else is suspicious?
I'm still wary of Ditto's attempted suicide, and Staraptor_Call does seem to solely be targeting inactives. I'd also like to see a post from DetrotLolCat (recently subbed in for LS) on their opinions, even though they already claimed announcer and are supposedly clean.


Yes, I realize I'm defending a lot of people, and that will obviously be seen as buddying by you jumpy people. However, I feel as if a solid defense for certain users can help narrow down the lynch target much more than randomly pointing fingers. If we all jump on a single bandwagon, then other possible scum will sneak by freely.

 

[UncleSam]

Just mentioning that we can now add Ditto to the group of users who are mysteriously not talking about Quagsires unless I force them to yet are trying to shift focus onto Leethoof (possible mafia if Quagsires is mafia are now jalmont, Star Call, and Ditto).

Right now, there seems to be two groups of people: those who think Quagsires is the most scummy, and those who think Leethoof is the most scummy. Frankly I think it is time for us to seriously consider lynching someone, and I think both of these are excellent lynches.

However, I am going to stand by my Quagsires vote for now, for two reasons:
-Quagsires is more experienced yet is not contributing anything. Leethoof I would EXPECT to play poorly, frankly, since as far as I know he has never played mafia before.
-If Quagsires is mafia, we know that jalmont, Staraptor Call, and now Ditto are probably mafia as well. If Leethoof is mafia, it doesn't really implicate anyone else.

That being said, I would like more opinions on Quagsires vs Leethoof personally, as while Quagsires strikes me as scummier he would also probably be more helpful later on if he was in fact a villager. Also, Leethoof was buddying me earlier on which I found really suspicious.

Leethoof, I'd like you to explain your scummy behavior (namely your confusing and unhelpful posts, your buddying me, and why you "forgot" your persuasion earlier on).

Quagsires I'd you to explain yourself similarly.

I would like more people to vote for one of these two or at least say which of them they suspect more so we can figure out who people would be more comfortable with lynching.

As for other possibilities for the lynch, I would consider following wagons on Staraptor Call or Brammi (who has mysteriously disappeared recently). Neither of them are contributing and are either just repeating what other people say/buddying mafia suspects and neglecting to provide ANY explanation for it (Staraptor Call) or providing horrible explanations for blatant role fishing (Brammi). I'd love some more opinions on these users as well.

 

[billymills]

I would like as many people as possible, especially Staraptor Call, as I have already asked him, to give opinions on Zorbees, Askaninjask and Yeti, for no reason given.

 

[Ditto]

I literally just realized that Leethoof claimed to be persuaded, and if you think that Quagsires' post is scummier than that, then you should no longer be allowed to associate yourself with America, US. Although you can see that as trying to protect Quagsires all you want, I can't really change your mind on that. However, that won't mean it's true.

 

[billymills]

What's the problem with him claiming to have been persuaded?

I mean it would be pretty stupid of the mafia to reveal that they have a persuader so early on, but otherwise?

 

[Ditto]

I'm not questioning the idea that someone can be persuaded, but I am questioning the fact that, as I said in a previous post, that someone can be persuaded and forget that they are persuaded while posting with the persuaded vote.

 

[Yeti]

Just mentioning that we can now add UncleSam to the group of users who are mysteriously not talking about the Godfather unless I force them to yet are trying to shift focus onto clean villager (possible mafia if the Godfather is mafia are now UncleSam, UncleSam, and UncleSam).

Right now, there seems to be two groups of people: those who think the Godfather is the most scummy, and those who think clean villager is the most scummy. Frankly I think it is time for us to seriously consider lynching someone, and I think both of thesethe villager are excellent lynches.

However, I am going to stand by my clean villager vote for now, for two reasons:
-clean villagers are less experienced yet is not contributing anything. clean villagers I would EXPECT to play poorly, frankly, since as far as I know they have never been bummed by billymills before.
-If I am mafia, we know that UncleSam, UncleSam, and now UncleSam are probably mafia as well. If the well-hidden Godfather is mafia, it doesn't really implicate anyone else.

That being said, I would like more opinions on the Godfather vs clean villager personally, as while I strike myself as scummier he would also probably be more helpful later on if he was in fact a villager. Also, Scumbuddy #2 was buddying me earlier on which I found really suspicious.

Scumbuddy #2, I'd like you to explain your highly-scummy behavior (namely your confusing and unhelpful posts, your buddying me, and why you "forgot" your Aquanaut lynch stop earlier on).

UncleSam I'd like you to explain yourself similarly.

I would like more people to vote for one of these two or at least say which of them they suspect more so we can figure out who people would be more comfortable with lynching.

As for other possibilities for the lynch, I would consider following wagons on billymills or Blue_Tornado (who have talked too much to not risk my scum secrets). Neither of them are contributing and are either just repeating what other people say/buddying obviously-clean villagers and neglecting to provide ANY explanation for it (Blue_Tornado) or providing horrible explanations for blatant item fishing (billymills). I'd love some more opinions on these users as well.

 

[Lrr]

I think Yeti is trying to communicate something

 

[askaninjask]

Lynching Leethoof is definitely not a great idea. Look at Mafia Mafia 2 Mafia 1 Day 1. The lynch was on Turkey (GoldenKnight), when Austria (Walrein) started randomly voting again. The vote went off of Turkey without Turkey ever actually defending himself. Austria managed to convince everyone to vote Venezuela (Nachos), who was a trolly villager. Both Turkey and Austria wound up being mafia.

I'm not saying this case is exactly analogous, but I am saying that getting the lynch off of Turkey without Turkey truly defending himself was a mistake. Quagsires needs to get his act together and really make a defense for himself. Until he does that, Quagsires does not deserve to get the lynch off of himself.

 

[Leethoof]

Leethoof, I'd like you to explain your scummy behavior (namely your confusing and unhelpful posts, your buddying me, and why you "forgot" your persuasion earlier on).

Ok, allow me to begin by explaining my poor reasoning for each and every one of my posts.

Hello. If you guys cannot decide by the deadline of day 1, you can always lynch me and get another day to discuss. Because this is my first NOC, my scum-detector is not very-well tuned.

However, I have to agree on Steven Snype jumping back and forth, because it is weird. All of this discussion is a litte confusing :S.

This post is me just trying to get something up before people went too bandwagon-y on me before for inactivity. However, I should have waited and confirmed some rule questions before (the main one being, no deadline for daytime) posting this up. In addition, I was jumping on the Steven Snype because I was confused and was piggybacking off of aska's post directly above mine.

Hi.

I'd like to begin by clearing up my first post. I thought that NOC Mafia had a dayline, but and thought that sacrificing my useless mind for an extra X hours of discussion would be for the good of the village. However, from what I understand, the day ends when a majority is reached. So, that was just me being noob and dumb.

Now, I will exhibit my opinions on players after this question is answered.
Is the mafia allowed to have outside communication with eachother?

This was my attempt to clear up my first post, which apparently most people ignored, as well as another rules confirmation.

OK, well I may not be able to provide the most insightful of discussion, but I can (somewhat tentatively) clean Uncle Sam. I have been persuaded (by the night role) to vote for him. As far as I can tell, that is a mafia role, and why would they help lynch one of their own? However, I could be wrong and persuader might be village role, so ignore this in that case.

However, I must:

@@Vote Uncle Sam@@

This is where you all decided I was mafia, because of my forgetfulness as well as buddying with Sam. Yes, I forgot. Will you accept that answer? No. So, my real super-secret reason was to bring on the downfall of the village by starting a bandwagon on Uncle Sam, while innocently pretending to be persuaded! Bwahaha. No, I seriously forgot. Give it up, guys, its probably the lamest reason to lynch somebody ever.

I can explain my semi-buddying with Sam as well. Let's face it, he's driving all of this brilliant discussion right now with his constant prowling and finger-pointing. This is even more buddying, but its pretty much impossible to deny the fact that Sam is one of the most important people to the village right now. He's targeted nearly every user afaik, and forced others to give valuable opinions. Buddying or not, supporting Sam is good for village. Enough other users have pointed out scummyness in him.

I'll be honest, I forgot about it, as I read my results, went inactive for a day and a half, until the hosts gave me a friendly reminder. I doubt that satisfies your scrutinizing eye, but that's the reason. Now that we have one less user to worry about (US, not me), let's move on to threatlist.

UncleSam: clean as a bean (that is a clean bean)
Ditto: The whole idea of deciding how many mafia isn't really important this early imo, but it is helpful anyways.
Billymills: Sleeping is a pretty good excuse for inactivity, and the discussion he posted made up for it
Metal Bagon: Inactive when I'm fairly certain he's still active as usual in ASB, so possible scum
zorbees: Following on what Kaxtar said, the "i dont discuss much" and then "you should discuss more people" is a little contradictory
Blue Tornado: Positive discussion overall
Snike: Trying to pick up the pieces of Snype's suspicuousness, doing well

Here I started the bandwagon on MB by pointing out his activity in ASB. Bandwagon-starting, as well as my continued buddying with US, made this post even scummier. I already explained my buddying with US, because he is/was a good leader. However, like others have pointed out, the persuasion could be to try and clean him, and I would obviously be an excellent target for falling that trick, being a naive noob. Therefore, suspicions rise against him. In fact, his complete defensiveness of 'lol you just remembered you were persuaded what a noob' is him trying to deflect attention from the way that HE is the possible mafia here. I think US might even be focusing too much on my forgetfullness, neglecting the fact that the persuasion is actually real.

Since Yeti or someone asked earlier that everyone give their opinion on Ditto, here is mine. I think it is a sort of reverse-psychology, "come at me bros" move. He is daring us to lynch him, to see if our suspicions are correct. This could mean he's either fed up with the village, or is a gutsy scum. I'm leaning towards the fed up, personally, for no real reason.

Jalmont has valid points on Crux and MK being weird, but I have no real opinions towards either due to my noobishness.

Jalmont and Staraptor Call only recently became active, but both are providing insightful reads and useful discussion, so clean to me.

I have thought more about UncleSam. It is possible that I have been persuaded to pseudo-clean him, but even if he is mafia, I think he might be useful to keep around longer. He promotes most of the discussion in this thread, and even if he targets us towards defenite villys, the discussion provided will eventually point us to more mafia.

I'm still trying to look through Quagsires, Brammi's, Wick's, BT's, and billymills posts, among others.

If everyone else can pretend to be a certified psychologist capable of fully reading thoughts from a bunch of typed words, so can I!

Still more retarded buddying with US, which I have reversed in the above post. Added in some rather valid opinions on DItto, but I did ignore Quagsire and other lynch targets because I was sleepy.

So, that sums up my explanation for now. UncleSam, you are currently pseudo-cleaned by me being persuaded, and seem to be deflecting all attention of that onto me being forgetful. Why?

 

[zorbees]

I think forgetting a persuasion is a very realistic possibility. I've seen countless times where people forget a minor rule or something similar, and people overreact to that. I believe this is the current situation. I would wager that Leethoof is just noob town.

I am also going to bring up a user that is very under the radar at the moment, which could be due to scum trying to hide. This user is Snike. I do not really believe any of Snike's posts have been scummy, but he hasn't posted in quite a while if memory serves. I still think we should keep pressure on Quagsires, but I figured I'd mention this...

 

[Ditto]

Holy shit! From the way people describe it, I thought it went like this

Vote UncleSam

Oh... forgot I was persuaded to do that.

I was like, how the fuck do you not realize you are completing persuasion while doing it. Him forgetting until later is perfectly understandable. I guess this is what I get for being lazy and not checking the posts myself. Unvoting.

EDIT: However, I don't think the persuasion cleans US really. Mafia could easily persuade someone to vote for him, knowing he's going to be active to try and clean him.

 

[billymills]

Could I please get opinions on Askaninjask, yeti and zorbees from Staraptor Call, Quagsires and Snike ditto too i guess but he's kinda lame.

 

[JALMONT]

UncleSam, I'm a little confused why you think I am "buddying" Quagsires. You didn't really give a reason other than I had ignored Quagsire's post and I apparently "shifted attention onto Leethoof." Is this the only reason you think I'm buddying Quagsires? If so, I think that is a really weak reason to say that someone is buddying someone, but then again you are the experienced one and I'm not. A little clarification would be nice.

It seems to me that Yeti and US are consistenly feuding so I'm inclined to think that if one flips mafia, then the other is village, and vice versa.

Leethoof being persuaded to vote US does not pseudo clean him at all, in fact to me that seems like a perfect attempt to make him seem cleaner than he actually is. His constant attacking of different people I also find strange but that could just be attempting to fire up discussion.

I'd like to point out the DetroitLolcat said he would post the next day, but then failed to do so. An explanation why not would be nice, or maybe his scumbuddies haven't written up a post for you yet. (last sentence is a joke)

Staraptor Call posted a couple weak reads on a few players, and then claims to have spent the past hour combing through the read. His post says to me, "Hey these people have been on at so and so time, but they haven't posted. They must be mafia!"

Trying not to sound like a broken record here, but I must echo US's statement regarding Quagsires response. Quagsires didn't state what he thought was overreacting in pblade's post. Also I'm confused about Quagsires stance on a list of reads. In the last beginner NOC, his first post after subbing in was a list of reads, so I'm not really sure right now where he is going with that.

inb4 US claims I'm buddying someone by shifting the attention off someone else

 

[Lrr]

Your actions are suspicious because it seemed like you were trying to divert attention from him, allowing you to defend him without giving an opinion on him. This both lets you distance yourself from him (You weren't actively defending him) while also defending him (the discussion is shifted to someone who is not mafia).

EDIT: Him being Quagsires...

Also does anyone else not really have an idea about Yeti's opinions other than "US is scummy"

 

[UncleSam]

@jalmont, what Paperblade said basically.

Also Yeti could you stop trolling with your "lulz US is scummy" posts and give some real opinions? I mean if you legitimately think I'm scummy go ahead and give reasons why, but you aren't helping the discussion at all right now and as an experienced player I expect a lot more from you. You also neglected to say anything about any of the current possible lynch targets and just call out billymills for "item fishing"...really useless post, and I'm not gonna lie I am getting more and more suspicious of you. I mean trolling at the beginning was somewhat understandable and I've thought your contributions were sufficient up until recently (I also understand that you are hosting an expert game), but seriously, try and contribute some real insights here.

I also agree with askaninjask in that Quagsires shouldn't get out of this lynch unless he gives a strong defense of himself. I also think Leethoof is generally saying some pretty dumb things, but is at least trying to contribute and seems to care about the game. Quagsires doesn't seem to care at all and still hasn't posted any real defense.

I would post more but I have to go and do schoolwork, I'll post more tomorrow.