Novice Stall

[MagicMissingno]

As a new player and someone with a bit of an indecision issue I looked around the "new cores" thread to find anything defensive for me to try. I found one core and decided to go with it. This is what happened.

Yuuka (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Power Whip
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

So I looked at the usage and I saw that this guy is in the top ten most use Pokemon, and I can see why. Yuuka here has a very nice collection of resistances that make her usable in many situations and that's on top of her ability. With Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet Pokemon that make contact with this thing take some heavy damage. This combination has won me the match a few times and Leech Seed provides enough recovery to mitigate the loss of leftovers. Power Whip keeps Yuuka from being a sitting duck as well. I can't say enough good about this Pokemon, she's just amazing.

Mokou (Rotom-Heat) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave

This one looks odd but it was in the core shown. Electric and Fire provide a nice set of resistances that Yuuka over there likes, but there's more than just that. Mokou here has WoW, Twave, and Volt Switch. This combination results in her leading most of the time to cripple something with a status or get off some nice damage. Sadly she has been the downfall of a few matches but these were me screwing up my predictions.

Wakasagihime (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Haze

Mouthful of a name, mouthful of utility. Wakasagihime here rounds out the initial core and turns it into Grass - Fire - Water with a ton of nice stuff to use. Scald gets of some nice damage and occasionally burns some poor sap that's setting up to sweep physically. One of her most important moves is Haze. I figured a lot of people would try to set up on a defensive team and I was right, to the point of BD Azumaril being shut down by this. Toxic is good for residual damage and Rapid Spin is a god thing to have in the event of rocks.

Daiyousei (Sylveon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

You might be looking at this and telling me to use Pixilate Hyper Voice for more damage, I'm saying I want the chance to lower Special Attack. On topic, status problems can be quite the pain to someone trying to stall out, so Daiyousei here serves as a cleric and a damn good one. She might not be Blissey levels in healing but she's got a few things the pink blob doesn't, namely physical survivability and a way to deal damage. More often than not her wishes are enough to patch up anyone able to receive them aside from the brute below.

Suika (Conkeldurr) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 232 SDef
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

While making this team I knew I needed someone to actually hit stuff, so I grabbed a Conkeldurr and gave it a nice vest to wear. The things this has tanked and hit back are astounding, even a few megas like Pinser and Gengar have fallen to this, although they had taken some kind of prior damage before. Drain Punch keeps they guy healthy, Mach Punch takes out anything about to drop, and the other punches help with coverage. Originally Suika had an Iron Fist, but she got drunk and she's had a lot of Guts since then, it's for the better anyways. She gets hit with statuses more often than not even with Daiyousei ringing her Heal Bell. The speed EVs are a change I made to outspeed Azumaril and knock them out if they're weakened a bit at someone's recommendation. I'm happy to have this drunk on the team.

Keine (Scizor) (F) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Swords Dance
- Roost

A recent change but one I like. Keine has some nice priorety with a good attack stat to make use of it. It also helps deal with those pesky fairies that carry Heal Bell. U-Turn gives her a more Powerful STAB attack as well as keeping up the momentum or just escaping a trapper. Roost makes sure that the girl can recover and prevents her from needing Daiyousai every time she goes below half. Swords Dance....uh...I still need to work it out. I never seem to find the right time to use it.

And that's the stall team.

Click below for nickname reasons if that interests you.

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All the names are from the bullet hell games of Touhou.

Yuuka is a Youkai (catch-all term for a supernatural creature in the games) that loves flowers. She's also REALLY powerful on the psychical side and relies on just that. It fits Ferrothorn because while Ferro does use tricks it also has a lot of power should the need arise.

Mokou is an immortal human with the power of the phoenix. Rotom-H might not be a bird but it does have fire powers. Plus it used to be a ghost and ghosts don't have a time to die since they're already dead.

Wakasagihime and Daiyousei are a mermaid and a fairy respectively. Type is the only connection they have to Tentacruel and Sylveon.

Suika is an Oni, a race of devils that are super strong (Suika broke the moon once) super drunk (she's never been seen sober and gets more powerful the drunker she is) and super honest. Conkeldur is super strong and guts could be seen as it getting drunk.

Keine is a were-hakutaku that transforms under the full moon. Scizor transforms under a Mega Stone so it fits.

 

[Team Rocket]

Nice team, sir, I can see few improvements that can be made, though.

First of all, I'd suggest you put Mega-Scizor in the last spot, since you could really use some pivot and priority. And if you don't like Mega pokemon, then go with choice band. Bullet punch sometimes really saves whole match, especially when it's Technician boosted. If you prefer more defensive approach, then make it 252Def/252atk, and use Pursuit since steel no longer resists steel, and you can trap things like Lat@s, unless they carry HP Fire. Scizor would be also better, if this is really a stall team thanks to it's bulk.

Other than that, I would put Bulk Up on your Conkeldurr and change EVs to 22 Spd and 26 Atk instead of 48 speed. You won't be outspeeding anything anyway, unless it's another Conkeldurr and you could use some atk for base power against things like Dragonite.

As for Ferro, I suggest swapping Power Whip with Gyro Ball. Personally I think that PW misses too much, and you can still recover HP with Leech Seed + Protect combo. Gyro Ball can help you deal with Sdefensive walls like Espeon or even some sweepers that are pretty frail. GB is a great check for Tyranitar, even the Mega version, since it can pretty much 2hKO it and Jolteon dies on switch in, if you have SR up.

That's all I can think off. You can always put Trick on your rotom to shut down like ferrothorn and klefki, and think about pokemon with Roar/WW, since it's always good to be able to phaze something behind a sub.

Anyway, a good team and I'm hoping it serves you well. Good luck.

 

[MagicMissingno]

Nice team, sir, I can see few improvements that can be made, though.

First of all, I'd suggest you put Mega-Scizor in the last spot, since you could really use some pivot and priority. And if you don't like Mega pokemon, then go with choice band. Bullet punch sometimes really saves whole match, especially when it's Technician boosted. If you prefer more defensive approach, then make it 252Def/252atk, and use Pursuit since steel no longer resists steel, and you can trap things like Lat@s, unless they carry HP Fire. Scizor would be also better, if this is really a stall team thanks to it's bulk.

Other than that, I would put Bulk Up on your Conkeldurr and change EVs to 22 Spd and 26 Atk instead of 48 speed. You won't be outspeeding anything anyway, unless it's another Conkeldurr and you could use some atk for base power against things like Dragonite.

As for Ferro, I suggest swapping Power Whip with Gyro Ball. Personally I think that PW misses too much, and you can still recover HP with Leech Seed + Protect combo. Gyro Ball can help you deal with Sdefensive walls like Espeon or even some sweepers that are pretty frail. GB is a great check for Tyranitar, even the Mega version, since it can pretty much 2hKO it and Jolteon dies on switch in, if you have SR up.

That's all I can think off. You can always put Trick on your rotom to shut down like ferrothorn and klefki, and think about pokemon with Roar/WW, since it's always good to be able to phaze something behind a sub.

Anyway, a good team and I'm hoping it serves you well. Good luck.

Hmm, Mega-Scizor does sound like a good idea, I'll give it a shot.

Conkeldurr however can't use Bulk Up. She's got an Assualt Vest which boosts Special Defense and gives her a permanent taunt. You'll need a really convincing argument to get that thing off due to how many times it's saved me.

Power Whip is there because I have someone on my team using TWave to paralyze foes (Rotom H) and I'd rather not kill the one attack Ferro has because I made a bad choice in the game. My prediction skills have resulted in powering up a Flash Fire user before.

Thanks for the advice here.

 

[neseril]

I would recommend changing the Ferrothorn to use Spikes, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave and Leech Seed. Keep the Rocky Helmet, it's great for countering Mega-Kangas. Also, I wouldn't recommend having two poison types. I would replace the Rotom-H with Talonflame, and Tentacruel with Rotom-W.

 

[MagicMissingno]

I would recommend changing the Ferrothorn to use Spikes, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave and Leech Seed. Keep the Rocky Helmet, it's great for countering Mega-Kangas. Also, I wouldn't recommend having two poison types. I would replace the Rotom-H with Talonflame, and Tentacruel with Rotom-W.

Please explain why you recommend these changes, other than the poison types which I have changed. Remember this is a stall team.

 

[Team Rocket]

Okay, so I tested your team with change of Scizor - mega and I must say that Conkeldurr works pretty sweet. Two things that I noticed, though, is that Rotom - H is really bad at being special tank, so I'd suggest putting either Eviolite Chansey in that place (with Natural Cure she can aborb all statuses), or specially defensive Ttar with perhaps Dragon Dance for coverage and Crunch. Also, I don't think that Rapid Spin is a must on this team, since when you remove Rotom you don't really need to worry about hazards. Sure, haze is pretty good but you could prevent setting up with 252 Def / 252 HP Sableye or even think about putting defensive Klefki to do some Swagger/TW action if it's your playstyle (though I personally dislike this type of things). Other than that he can set up spikes and shut downs many physical threats with Reflect/Light Screen, can use Rest (since it's Prankster) and Chansey can Heal Bell it. You can even make it a Calm Mind variant, it's all up to you.

Pretty solid team so far, for a novice.

 

[MagicMissingno]

Okay, so I tested your team with change of Scizor - mega and I must say that Conkeldurr works pretty sweet. Two things that I noticed, though, is that Rotom - H is really bad at being special tank, so I'd suggest putting either Eviolite Chansey in that place (with Natural Cure she can aborb all statuses), or specially defensive Ttar with perhaps Dragon Dance for coverage and Crunch. Also, I don't think that Rapid Spin is a must on this team, since when you remove Rotom you don't really need to worry about hazards. Sure, haze is pretty good but you could prevent setting up with 252 Def / 252 HP Sableye or even think about putting defensive Klefki to do some Swagger/TW action if it's your playstyle (though I personally dislike this type of things). Other than that he can set up spikes and shut downs many physical threats with Reflect/Light Screen, can use Rest (since it's Prankster) and Chansey can Heal Bell it. You can even make it a Calm Mind variant, it's all up to you.

Pretty solid team so far, for a novice.

Hmm....I'll try running something over Rapid Spin, but one thing Rotom H really helps out is the statuses. I tend to Twave/WoW and run with her rather than staying in and actually tank multiple hits. I also don't need more status absorbing on the team with Guts Conkeldur and Heal Bell Sylveon. As for haze, I'm not very good at predicting what will set up and what has a choice item unless it's really obvious. Haze is just a safety net for me. I'm currently trying out Bulky SD Mega-Scizor to see if it works better.

 

[StayFrosty310]

i suggest rotom wash over rotom heat. and i would also replace tenta cruel with flash flare heatran, who can absorb any fire hits, and can take specail hits, including gengar's focus blast, better than tentacruel

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

i suggest rotom wash over rotom heat. and i would also replace tenta cruel with flash flare heatran, who can absorb any fire hits, and can take specail hits, including gengar's focus blast, better than tentacruel

How can heatran take focus blast better? It's probably oh ko'd (don't have a calculator on me) while I'd wager tenta is 3-5hko'd. Plus that removes rapid spin, which cannot happen.

I'm not really one for stall, but if scizor is having survivibility problems, you could shift some values from def to sdef.

 

[MagicMissingno]

How can heatran take focus blast better? It's probably oh ko'd (don't have a calculator on me) while I'd wager tenta is 3-5hko'd. Plus that removes rapid spin, which cannot happen.

I'm not really one for stall, but if scizor is having survivibility problems, you could shift some values from def to sdef.

I've been running the Bulky SD set with U-Turn over Bug Bite. I rarely get the time to set up, and by rarely I mean never, but it takes out threats well enough and it might help with those Cosmic Power Celfables that run around.

 

[StayFrosty310]

How can heatran take focus blast better? It's probably oh ko'd (don't have a calculator on me) while I'd wager tenta is 3-5hko'd. Plus that removes rapid spin, which cannot happen.

I'm not really one for stall, but if scizor is having survivibility problems, you could shift some values from def to sdef.

specially defecsive heatran is one hell of a tank
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Heatran: 186-220 (48.1 - 56.9%)

 

[MagicMissingno]

specially defecsive heatran is one hell of a tank
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Heatran: 186-220 (48.1 - 56.9%)

Stats aren't the only thing I'm looking at here, I also need support moves. Does Heatran have any support sets that make her and Rotom-W worth running over Rotom-H and Tentacruel? Also, please keep in mind that I already have two Steel Types in the team.

 

[StayFrosty310]

Rotom wash can run a mixed wall set 248 hp/ 238 Sdef / 28 spe. With hydropump/ volt switch/ will wisp / pain split. Since you aren't using rapid spin, there is literally no reason to use tentacruel. Rotom wash does a non spinning tentacruel s job and better by having a consistent way to burn things, and more reliable recovery in pain split.

Heatran, 252 hp/ 228 spdef/ 24 def has a few big advantages over Rotom h, one he's a bit more bulkier, letting him last while longer, second, he can put up rocks (which lets Ferro run spikes) and third, imo, flash flare is saving grace for scizor, and Ferro, who could never hope to take flame thrower from genesect

 

[MagicMissingno]

Rotom wash can run a mixed wall set 248 hp/ 238 Sdef / 28 spe. With hydropump/ volt switch/ will wisp / pain split. Since you aren't using rapid spin, there is literally no reason to use tentacruel. Rotom wash does a non spinning tentacruel s job and better by having a consistent way to burn things, and more reliable recovery in pain split.

Heatran, 252 hp/ 228 spdef/ 24 def has a few big advantages over Rotom h, one he's a bit more bulkier, letting him last while longer, second, he can put up rocks (which lets Ferro run spikes) and third, imo, flash flare is saving grace for scizor, and Ferro, who could never hope to take flame thrower from genesect

Ehh....I say my team works out better for their roles. If someone else wants to argue for this pair over my current one, Make a longer argument than this so I can clearly see the advantages. One thing is that I really don't like having hazards on my side so Tentacruel's spinning helps put me at ease of mind. Not to mention Cruel and Rotom can both take fire attacks as well.

 

[StayFrosty310]

Ehh....I say my team works out better for their roles. If someone else wants to argue for this pair over my current one, Make a longer argument than this so I can clearly see the advantages. One thing is that I really don't like having hazards on my side so Tentacruel's spinning helps put me at ease of mind. Not to mention Cruel and Rotom can both take fire attacks as well.

I'll respect that fact , but could you explain certain things, such as why conk would need to outspeed azu, since azu would only deal about 18 percent anyway, the evs would be better in atk, netting thunder punch a guaranteed 2hko, opposed to a 3hko. i also question haze on tentacruel. it takes a lot prediction to use effectively, because most of who you would use it on, dragonite/garchomp/scizor/ conkeldurr/ gyrados/ etc.., can you usually 2hko you anyways, not to mention you probably wont be outspeeding most set up-sweepers, so why use haze over toxic spikes, which is proven to work.

it also never a good idea to use sword dance and u turn. ever.

 

[MagicMissingno]

I'll respect that fact , but could you explain certain things, such as why conk would need to outspeed azu, since azu would only deal about 18 percent anyway, the evs would be better in atk, netting thunder punch a guaranteed 2hko, opposed to a 3hko. i also question haze on tentacruel. it takes a lot prediction to use effectively, because most of who you would use it on, dragonite/garchomp/scizor/ conkeldurr/ gyrados/ etc.., can you usually 2hko you anyways, not to mention you probably wont be outspeeding most set up-sweepers, so why use haze over toxic spikes, which is proven to work.

it also never a good idea to use sword dance and u turn. ever.

The toxic spikes thing is simple, I want to hit the right thing with the right status. If I use toxic spikes everything grounded would be poisoned and there's a lot of physical sweepers I wanna burn with Scald/Will o wisp

The speed thing was suggested to me by someone on the assault vest thread which is why I do it.

Most of the threats you mentioned have a hard time after being burnt by WoW and Haze tends to drive the nail in further. It also has the benefit of stopping special sweepers like Volcarona or Sylveon.

Really I wanna believe you but with such a small post count and nobody else supporting your choices I find it hard to believe that this will be better for the team. If more people say that this is a good idea and provide full sets I'll try it out.

 

[StayFrosty310]

The toxic spikes thing is simple, I want to hit the right thing with the right status. If I use toxic spikes everything grounded would be poisoned and there's a lot of physical sweepers I wanna burn with Scald/Will o wisp

The speed thing was suggested to me by someone on the assault vest thread which is why I do it.

Most of the threats you mentioned have a hard time after being burnt by WoW and Haze tends to drive the nail in further. It also has the benefit of stopping special sweepers like Volcarona or Sylveon.

Really I wanna believe you but with such a small post count and nobody else supporting your choices I find it hard to believe that this will be better for the team. If more people say that this is a good idea and provide full sets I'll try it out.

post count means nothing. 7 posts doesnt show 15 and 16 hundred ladder rankings

 

[MagicMissingno]

post count means nothing. 7 posts doesnt show 15 and 16 hundred ladder rankings

Well the lack of people verifying this as a good idea is also a problem. I've asked about the core on the New Cores thread and I haven't gotten any responses there.
Also, what teams do you tend to run that get you those high rankings? Are they offensive or defensive?

 

[Ajwf]

Heatran is a viable option as a stall pokemon (if you want to see, my RMT runs him in stall as well). His key advantages over rotom heat really come in his ability to switch over rocks. He can also set rocks and can take a bunch of non-stab SE hits (Nonboosted defensive celebi cannot OHKO SDef invested heatran with earthpower, for example). His move pool is more counter-oriented. He can run a 2 attack 2 support move pool or even legitimately run an AV set (which, as you have conckledurr, I do not recommend).

However, for this team I advise against heatran. You need levitate at the very least and heatran only adds to a slightly-relevant ground weakness. If you do invest in another pokemon, make sure that pokemon has a form of recovery, as sylveon is under too much stress as is to replenish everything short of mega scizor.

 

[MagicMissingno]

Heatran is a viable option as a stall pokemon (if you want to see, my RMT runs him in stall as well). His key advantages over rotom heat really come in his ability to switch over rocks. He can also set rocks and can take a bunch of non-stab SE hits (Nonboosted defensive celebi cannot OHKO SDef invested heatran with earthpower, for example). His move pool is more counter-oriented. He can run a 2 attack 2 support move pool or even legitimately run an AV set (which, as you have conckledurr, I do not recommend).

However, for this team I advise against heatran. You need levitate at the very least and heatran only adds to a slightly-relevant ground weakness. If you do invest in another pokemon, make sure that pokemon has a form of recovery, as sylveon is under too much stress as is to replenish everything short of mega scizor.

I wasn't even thinking of the ground weakness there. Thanks for catching that!

 

[StayFrosty310]

Well the lack of people verifying this as a good idea is also a problem. I've asked about the core on the New Cores thread and I haven't gotten any responses there.
Also, what teams do you tend to run that get you those high rankings? Are they offensive or defensive?

i used a hyper offense and rain in gen 5 ou (rain works after you break the 1500 mark)

for gen 6 pokebank, i used a couple stall teams, and volt tuern after i broke 1400 ( volt turn is my rmt)


if you want a good core however, fire/water/grass is always great. ferrothorn and mega venasuar are the best defensive grasses imo, which you already have one. you have fire /water but it would apear tentacruel is just a lot weaker this gen, which is why i suggest removing it, it was only ou due to perma rain, which is goon, jellecent is a better alternative if you want to keep rotom heat. it spin blocks, has recover, good hp, will o wisp, toxic and is overall more usefull than tentacruel, i still suggest testing ferro/ro wash/ and heatran for a defensive core

 

[bigbear]

i used a hyper offense and rain in gen 5 ou (rain works after you break the 1500 mark)

for gen 6 pokebank, i used a couple stall teams, and volt tuern after i broke 1400 ( volt turn is my rmt)


if you want a good core however, fire/water/grass is always great. ferrothorn and mega venasuar are the best defensive grasses imo, which you already have one. you have fire /water but it would apear tentacruel is just a lot weaker this gen, which is why i suggest removing it, it was only ou due to perma rain, which is goon, jellecent is a better alternative if you want to keep rotom heat. it spin blocks, has recover, good hp, will o wisp, toxic and is overall more usefull than tentacruel, i still suggest testing ferro/ro wash/ and heatran for a defensive core

Wait are you saying that you are recommending him a stall team that was not even able to break 1500? I laddered to 1700 with my Poliwrath team. And even then not really seriously because honestly I just wanted to use a Poliwrath on my team. FWG cores are not always the best cores. For example a bulky offensive core in aegislash+Hydreigon achieves a lot and is currently one of the strongest bulky offensive cores in the game. Defensive core =/= stall core. Stall cores normally involve pokemon like skarmory and ferrothorn. Heatran SHOULD NOT be used on a stall team unless you are extremely fire weak. Heatran is more of a defensive pokemon on a mixed team. Also, jellicent + rotom h does not make a great combo, because why would you need to spin block. Tentacruel still holds its own WITHOUT rain. Overall I think that your team is quite good. I do think that you should change your sylveon set a little bit. Run pixilate over cute charm and hyper voice over moonblast. This boosts your damage output and cute charm is not the greatest ability in the world, only working on physical attackers and even then only on certain ones at that.

 

[MagicMissingno]

Overall I think that your team is quite good. I do think that you should change your sylveon set a little bit. Run pixilate over cute charm and hyper voice over moonblast. This boosts your damage output and cute charm is not the greatest ability in the world, only working on physical attackers and even then only on certain ones at that.

I was running Moonblast for the chance of a Sp. Attack drop, but I guess I can give Pixie Voice a try. I only ran Cute Charm as a "Well the other ability is useless for her" kind of deal since Moonblast was already fairy.