Disclaimer: Okay, so I just learnt that the date for posting reqs is today, so sorry if if anything I say is inaccurate or rushed.
Okay, so to summarize the points of the thread and my thoughts on them and Skymin, lets go! (unintentionally essay-sized post inbound)
So Skymin is one of the fastest, most viable mons in the tier, aided with two strong "haxy" STAB moves and great coverage. The only really relevant set is Sash with Seed Flare / Air Slash / Earth Power / Protect, max Speed and Special Attack, Timid. Ignoring speed control, viable mons such as Lando-T (if Scarf), Mega Gar, Deo-A, Kyurem-Black (if Scarf), Mamoswine (if Scarf) and Genesect (if Scarf) all naturally outspeed and can beat Skymin, without getting flinched. Beyond this, priority users such as Talonflame, Mega Kangaskhan, Bisharp, (Mega) Abomasnow and Weavile can all hit it quite hard with priority. Blaziken can also threaten it and outspeed after 1 turn of Speed Boost. For defensive checks, there are fewer that fully resist it's coverage really in Thundy (both formes), Rotom-Heat, and Zapdos. Beyond this, even resisted priority such as A-Jet from Azu or Mach Punch from fighting types can finish it off from sash, as well as Hail or Sand. Fake Out also threatens Skymin greatly due to the inability to flinch a threat, and due to just plain breaking it's Sash, meaning that most hits will at least just about kill it. Add in various forms of speed control, including TR, and also weather sweepers, and you can find yourself a plethora of ways to outspeed and KO Skymin. Follow Me (since Grass types ignore RP) also makes Skymin far less threatening. P.S Mega Manectric is bad, (Mega) Aerodactyl is viable, although not on the V-rankings, and definitely matches well against Skymin both by itself and by providing Tailwind support.
So there are very few mons which can completely safely switch into Skymin, but this is the same case with a lot of the powerful mons in doubles such as Char-Y and Mega Diancie. The "defensive" checks should only be needed if a team is completely Skymin weak, which teams should avoid since Skymin is very threatening mon due to it's blazing speed. Although it's not hard to fit a mon that beats Skymin onto a team you can still beat it otherwise or if the check dies. I believe that Skymin does not over-centralize the metagame (subjective opinion) and that the removal of it would not shake the metagame that much, compared to something like Kyu-B moving up. Skymin is
not some kind of archetype destroying monster, and should not be treated as such. I will not argue about the HO vs full TR matchup, as I believe that is team/matchup-specific and also subjective, but Skymin most definitely does not render full TR unviable, regardless of whether you think full TR is viable or not. The viability of Rotom-W is not based purely on Skymin's presence, and even if it was, Wash-Tom still fares well against many of the HO associates commonly found with Skymin such as Keldeo, Talonflame, and Lando-T.
One reason people want to ban Skymin is due to its ability to outspeed and flinch most mons with a staggering 57% success rate. Some people argue that this means Skymin can just flinch things to death even if there is a better play, and so removes a factor of player skill from the game and replaces it with luck. However, Skymin can only target one mon at the time, meaning that it can be played around with predictions using by Protect or by switching. Sometimes, a very large 43% sometimes, letting Skymin roll the dice will still allow your mon to move, and due to Skymin's frailty and typing most mons in the tier can threaten Skymin with a 2HKO if not flinched. Air Slash can even miss 5% of the time, giving you a free turn to do whatever. The chance to get multiple flinches in a row sinks quickly, with a ~33% for two flinches and ~19% for three -
note: this does not affect the individual flinch chances, only the overall chance. Things behind Subs, such as Kyu-B and to a lesser extent Aegis and Heatran (if you Air Slash either of these two you better have a good reason anyways though) can avoid the flinch chance completely. A lot of Skymin's checks can afford to switch into an Air Slash since it isn't super powerful, and to the people saying they will just Seed Flare on the switch, that can work the other way as well if you stay in (e.g. Sludge Bomb Amoonguss staying in on a predicted Seed Flare as they try to catch the switch-in). Speed control also completely removes the flinch chance: with TR turning Skymin's speed back on it with basically everything under the sun outspeeding it; Icy Wind does good damage to it and can get around the rare redirection if they have it; Tailwind means most things bar the likes of Amoonguss or a slow Aegis will outspeed Skymin; T-Wave (Yellow Magic) completely neuters Skymin (
a paralyzed mon is a dead mon - a wise doubles player) even if it switches; and Skymin doesn't matchup too well against any weather anyways. If this forces the Skymin out, then good, momentum to you which can be taken advantage of.
Seed Flare, the more powerful of Skymin's STAB moves, is the one that more experienced players argue the problem is. With a 68% factoring accuracy to drop something's Special Defence by 2 (halfing it from neutral) it's easy to see why. Supposed this makes Skymin impossible to switch into, but a lot of Skymin checks do resist Grass (additionaly Bisharp gets a Defiant boost from the drop), and this time, the move has a noticeable 15% chance to miss. As weakening as -2 Sp Def is, you can try to pivot or predict/tect around it, but I do admit it can be quite difficult a situation to get out of. The fact that this allows Skymin to take on CM Cress is balanced, in my opinion, since it means teams can beat a set-up Cress without relying on a crit. However, if you threaten Skymin you can prevent the drop from making a difference, or you can bait the Skymin for your partner to attack. People have stated the power of the infamous Keldeo-Skymin core, and how this combo can beat even a Cress, yet the Cress does have a partner that can do something since Cress is being double targeted (even better if Cress has Protect). Quick Guard Keldeo does not completely stop Talonflame, as Skymin cannot OHKO it from full, while Talon can still FB Skymin (unless flinched) while Talon's partner only has to deal with Skymin, and can even freely target Keldeo, particularly since Quick Guard affects the chance for Protect to work. Most Hyper Voice users greatly threaten the core.
Skymin can be difficult to switch into, but Skymin itself finds trouble coming in bar after a mon dying; or else it will risk it's vital sash being broken. As long as you can keep the right mons or speed control on the field, Skymin will be hard pressed to find opportunities to freely come in. If your opponent has a Skymin, play like they do and don't end up with something like Amoon and EQ-locked Lando on the field. Same as with a lot of mons, you need to make sure you don't lose late game to it (although misses can stop that from happening).
So as I'm sure you can guess, my thoughts on Skymin are currently
No Ban. Skymin is definitely a great mon, but definitely not some kind of win button against any team. Skymin does also require player skill as well, as I have proven to myself earlier today when I made a massive choke with Skymin which basically switched my position from nearly guaranteed win to nearly guaranteed loss. As people before me have already said, if you can put yourself in a position where you win if you get that 57% flinch, then well done it takes skill to put yourself in that position. In my opinion, Skymin can be checked without a substantial strain on teambuilding, and is neither broken nor over-centralizing.
Some random additional thoughts on what you are going to vote:
- Don't vote ban just because Skymin is Ubers in Singles, these are two totally different metagames, and the reasons for banning in singles were different and bans are separate.
- Don't say "oh, well Skymin introduces chance, we need to ban it" other moves such as Rock Slide and Swagger (which is a totally different case) involve game-changing luck-based effects, among which Pokemon is a game involving chance, which is part of what makes it interesting and not the same game everytime, even if it's the same teams. Also, if these moves are broken then they will be dealt with separately.
- Don't vote no ban because "Jirachi and Togekiss get Serene Grace flinches but aren't broken" well so do Blissey and DUNSPARCE. It is the combination of traits that Skymin has which makes it so overly good, not just the flinch rate.
- Don't vote no ban just because "oh Serp and Virizion wouldn't fulfill the same niche as an offensive grass", powerful and broken mons have large niches, and team-specific niches can for the most part be fulfilled by other mons. P.S - don't vote no ban because you can't be bothered/want to build new teams.
- Don't vote no ban because "it's not broken if you can use it too" that's a sign of something being ban-worthy.
- Don't vote ban because your team is 6-0ed by Skymin, that's a sign of bad teambuilding as you should consider and prepare for all top threats in the metagame.
- Don't vote ban/no ban purely due to 1 on 1 matchups, as doubles is far more intricate than that and this thought process is in reality far closer to what would happen in a singles match.
- Don't vote ban/no ban just because someone you know/admire is one way or the other, or because someone told you to vote that way.
- Don't vote no ban because "low ladder usage/didn't see on ladder, not broken", the ladder is not a reliable source of data.
- Don't vote ban because "Skymin-Keldeo too OP", teams should be prepared for common cores, and this duo is definitely not unbeatable by any means.
- Don't vote ban/no ban because "Skymin is my favourite mon/if Skymin is banned my favourite mon is more viable", that's fine to have favourite pokemon, just don't let that affect this decision which will affect everyone.
- Don't vote ban because "of this one time I lost due to getting flinched 6 times in a row", everybody loses to hax sometimes, it's not just Skymin that can do that.
If there are any of my points that you would like to address/argue, please do (or point out any mistakes/typos I've made lol)