np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!

[Demoness]

Sheesh, you guys take things too literally. Usually, by that I mean, a lot of times, Jirachi will use iron head to flinch hax. I'm not saying there aren't other sets that it will use, because it is a very capable pokemon even when using a different set. And I'm not sure if I read the right statistics, but those links said that the probability of facing an iron head using jirachi is 70% - 75%, except in uber tier.
I'm not for banning jirachi, nor I'm for banning inconsistent (maybe except for smeargle since it can baton pass those stat changes). The IRON HEAD jirachi relies a lot on luck, WHEN NOT MET BY A SURE-FIRE COUNTER (which aren't that many) the same way inconsistent relies a lot on luck, WHEN NOT MET BY A COUNTER. The only difference is that we are used to one strategy and the other one is quite new, so useful counters are still object of discussion (like unaware pokemon, ability nullifying moves, evasion reduction skills, croagunk, machamp).

I'm just going to say that unless your Unaware poke has something to rid itself of Poison, it's just going to be stalled out and killed. Ability's that stop others from working are easy to notice on someones team, and some users just have better things to run. Evasion reducing moves is the most rediclous counter proposel i've heard; Your lettting them get more and more boosts while your wasting your time with a usless move. Toxicroak is a bit of a problem, but Inconsistent users can easily get past him. Machamp is easily stalled out.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Yes, but their effect being nearly the same, it would be like adding 8 more Pokémons to the crowd that learns Double Team.

One could argue Inconsistent's effect to the metagame is the same of Double Team/Minimize ("favoring luck" etc).

Sheesh, you guys take things too literally.

Of course, this is a metagame discussion, you can't simply waltz in exaggerating your argument and hoping no one will notice it.

Usually, by that I mean, a lot of times, Jirachi will use iron head to flinch hax. I'm not saying there aren't other sets that it will use, because it is a very capable pokemon even when using a different set. And I'm not sure if I read the right statistics, but those links said that the probability of facing an iron head using jirachi is 70% - 75%, except in uber tier.

Yes, Iron Head is a staple move of sorts on Jirachi... but it's not always Scarfed, meaning by no means is Iron Heading everything the best strategy.

 

[TheAmazingFlygon]

One could argue Inconsistent's effect to the metagame is the same of Double Team/Minimize ("favoring luck" etc).




Of course, this is a metagame discussion, you can't simply waltz in exaggerating your argument and hoping no one will notice it.



Yes, Iron Head is a staple move of sorts on Jirachi... but it's not always Scarfed, meaning by no means is Iron Heading everything the best strategy.

Maybe so, but you know the effect of Double Team/Minimize; it's in your total control whereas Inconsistent is not in your control you get whatever the game whats you to get or lose. It's the same kind of luck as in Acupressure.

 

[SJCrew]

Just wanted to point out though, Inconsistent essentially makes it so that the secondary effect of every move you use is Accupressure. You don't need a moveslot for it at all.

 

[SlimMan]

Just wanted to point out though, Inconsistent essentially makes it so that the secondary effect of every move you use is Accupressure. You don't need a moveslot for it at all.

If the move already has secondary effect, it becomes a third effect.

Having a move with a secondary effect which ALSO raises stats.

 

[Cshadow]

We do if possible. See Soul Dew and GSC Misdreavus.

In this case, Inconsistent is clearly what pushes Octillery (and other Inconsistent abusers) over the edge.

Is Octillery as broken as the other Inconsistent abusers, or is Octillery the only broken one?

 

[dragonmaster951753]

Is Octillery as broken as the other Inconsistent abusers, or is Octillery the only broken one?

They are all equally broken

 

[Miscellaneous]

They are all equally broken

I highly doubt that. The pokemon behind the boosts is one of the most important determining factors of both "brokeness"; and the way inconsistent users implent their strategy. Arguing that they are all broken is one thing, but they are not equally broken, that is nigh on impossible.

 

[ensoriki]

Fewer Pokémon having it means that it's actually possible to look at each case in depth and respectively ban the Pokémon if needs be. On the contrary, we couldn't do that with Double Team for way too many Pokémon had it and therefore banning them all would be ridiculous which is partially why it is exceptional. When something is broken, you don't ban part of that brokenness to weaken it and make him usable, you simply ban the Pokémon. Why wouldn't it be the same for Octillery? Plus, Inconsistent isn't as strong as you say it is; the Pokémons that get it are mediocre and wouldn't benefit so much from that ability that it would make them broken.

@ Above Way more than that get Double Team.

15/649 pokemon learn Minimize.

Thats 2%.
If we look at it further 8 are Fully evolved/dont evolve
thats 1.5% you could include chansey if you want to but either way. A miniscule amfount of pokemon learning minimize.

If something not being widely distributed was reason to test them individually, Minimize never should of been banned outright.
---

Inconsistent has to go, even if there wasn't an evasion clause and people adapted to an evasion based metagame, the potential power of this ability is simply too strong. Inconsistent is the perfect name, it either makes pokemon very strong, or weak and on average everything will balance out to boosts all around the board. It's making the game russian roulette, not because of the evasion but because what boost they get can affect the entire game. Both sides are hoping for results favourable for them, one wants favourable negative boosts and the other favourable positive boosts.
Just making the game silly when both sides are waiting for nonsense to occur.

 

[Sir Azelf]

I highly doubt that. The pokemon behind the boosts is one of the most important determining factors of both "brokeness"; and the way inconsistent users implent their strategy. Arguing that they are all broken is one thing, but they are not equally broken, that is nigh on impossible.

I take it you havent seen the log of Bidoof sweeping that team lol

 

[deiphobus]

Maybe so, but you know the effect of Double Team/Minimize; it's in your total control whereas Inconsistent is not in your control you get whatever the game whats you to get or lose. It's the same kind of luck as in Acupressure.

That's the point. Inconsistent isn't in anyone's control. The game becomes luck based instead of skill based. It's really not the same as Acupressure, if you've actually played against both, because Acupressure takes a move to make, and only boosts one stage at a time.

 

[sax king]

I highly doubt that. The pokemon behind the boosts is one of the most important determining factors of both "brokeness"; and the way inconsistent users implent their strategy. Arguing that they are all broken is one thing, but they are not equally broken, that is nigh on impossible.

Hide

!plusle! sent out Bidoof!

Start of turn 23
Seriin's Daycare called Aipom back!
Seriin's Daycare sent out Gligar!

Bidoof used Protect!
But it failed!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Speed!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Accuracy!

Start of turn 24
Bidoof used Substitute!
Bidoof made a substitute!

The foe's Gligar used Swords Dance!
The foe's Gligar's Attack sharply rose!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Sp. Def.!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Accuracy!

Start of turn 25
Bidoof used Return!
The attack of Bidoof missed!

The foe's Gligar used Swords Dance!
The foe's Gligar's Attack sharply rose!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Defense!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Def.!

Start of turn 26
Bidoof used Toxic!
The attack of Bidoof missed!

The foe's Gligar used Baton Pass!
Seriin's Daycare called Gligar back!
Seriin's Daycare sent out Zuruggu!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Sp. Def.!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Evasion!

Start of turn 27
Bidoof used Protect!
Bidoof protected itself!

The foe's Zuruggu used Drain Punch!
Bidoof protected itself!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Speed!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Accuracy!
The foe's Zuruggu's Shed Skin heals its status!

Start of turn 28
Bidoof used Return!
The foe's Zuruggu lost 29% of its health!

The foe's Zuruggu used Drain Punch!
It's super effective!
Bidoof's substitute faded!
Bidoof had its energy drained!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Speed!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Def.!

Start of turn 29
Bidoof used Protect!
Bidoof protected itself!

The foe's Zuruggu used Dragon Dance!
The foe's Zuruggu's Attack rose!
The foe's Zuruggu's Speed rose!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Evasion!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Att.!

Start of turn 30
Bidoof used Return!
The foe's Zuruggu lost 29% of its health!

The foe's Zuruggu used Drain Punch!
The attack of the foe's Zuruggu missed!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Attack!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Speed!

Start of turn 31
Bidoof used Protect!
Bidoof protected itself!

The foe's Zuruggu used Drain Punch!
The attack of the foe's Zuruggu missed!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Sp. Def.!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Att.!

Start of turn 32
Bidoof used Return!
The foe's Zuruggu lost 54% of its health!
The foe's Zuruggu fainted!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Defense!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Speed!
Seriin's Daycare sent out Aipom!

Start of turn 33
Bidoof used Protect!
Bidoof protected itself!

The foe's Aipom used Fake Out!
The attack of the foe's Aipom missed!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Sp. Def.!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Attack!

Start of turn 34
Bidoof used Substitute!
Bidoof made a substitute!

The foe's Aipom used Fire Punch!
Bidoof's substitute took the damage!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Defense!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Evasion!

Start of turn 35
Bidoof used Protect!
Bidoof protected itself!

The foe's Aipom used Fire Punch!
Bidoof protected itself!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Sp. Att.!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Def.!

Start of turn 36
Bidoof used Return!
The foe's Aipom lost 82% of its health!

The foe's Aipom used Fire Punch!
Bidoof's substitute took the damage!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Attack!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Speed!

Start of turn 37
Bidoof used Return!
The attack of Bidoof missed!

The foe's Aipom used Fire Punch!
Bidoof's substitute faded!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Speed!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Def.!

Start of turn 38
Bidoof used Protect!
Bidoof protected itself!

The foe's Aipom used Fire Punch!
Bidoof protected itself!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Accuracy!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Defense!

Start of turn 39
Bidoof used Return!
The attack of Bidoof missed!

The foe's Aipom used Fire Punch!
Bidoof lost 3 HP! (12% of its health)

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Evasion!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Speed!

Start of turn 40
Bidoof used Return!
The foe's Aipom lost 17% of its health!
The foe's Aipom fainted!

Bidoof's Inconsistent sharply raises its Defense!
Bidoof's Inconsistent lowers its Accuracy!
Seriin's Daycare sent out Gligar!

Start of turn 41
Bidoof used Return!
The attack of Bidoof missed!

The foe's Gligar used Earthquake!
A critical hit!
Bidoof lost 10 HP! (40% of its health)
Bidoof fainted!

That's in LC, but I think you get the picture

 

[SJCrew]

That's the point. Inconsistent isn't in anyone's control. The game becomes luck based instead of skill based. It's really not the same as Acupressure, if you've actually played against both, because Acupressure takes a move to make, and only boosts one stage at a time.

Actually, Accupressure boosts by two stages. Always has.

 

[lmitchell0012]

Octillery with inconsistent is pretty broken, but as I said many pages back, the popular movepool/EV spread is easily walled by clefable.

Also, I don't think we should be banning ANYTHING right now. What if they decide to release pokemon with new DW abilities (newer ones that haven't been confirmed). We could end up banning something that actually has some decent counters. Also, we don't know what any of the move tutor moves will be in the third game. It's very possible that with the new movepools, pokemon who are broken right now will get some decent counters. Basically, I'm just saying that we should wait to ban stuff until we know more about the metagame.

 

[TheAmazingFlygon]

15/649 pokemon learn Minimize.

Thats 2%.
If we look at it further 8 are Fully evolved/dont evolve
thats 1.5% you could include chansey if you want to but either way. A miniscule amfount of pokemon learning minimize.

If something not being widely distributed was reason to test them individually, Minimize never should of been banned outright.
---

Inconsistent has to go, even if there wasn't an evasion clause and people adapted to an evasion based metagame, the potential power of this ability is simply too strong. Inconsistent is the perfect name, it either makes pokemon very strong, or weak and on average everything will balance out to boosts all around the board. It's making the game russian roulette, not because of the evasion but because what boost they get can affect the entire game. Both sides are hoping for results favourable for them, one wants favourable negative boosts and the other favourable positive boosts.
Just making the game silly when both sides are waiting for nonsense to occur.

Read my other answer; being nearly the same effect, Minimize and Double Team stack up.

---

There is always a part of luck in the game: Crits, miss, etc. This ability is in no way broken for the Pokémons that have it aren't good in the first place - but that's not really what I ''care'' about. I'm just saying you can't ban an ability, you must ban the Pokémon along with it.

 

[lmitchell0012]

I've recently heard a rumor on this site that unaware doesn't affect speed boosts. I was wondering if this is true?? If so, this is a HUGE loss for stalling.

 

[Coronis]

It has always been that way, unaware only ignores the users offensive/defensive boosts when being attacked or attacking.

 

[lmitchell0012]

It has always been that way, unaware only ignores the users offensive/defensive boosts when being attacked or attacking.

I didn't know that it only ignored the offensive/defensive boosts. I thought that it ignored ANY kind of a boost you got.

 

[ginganinja]

yeah inconsistant is a bitch
I had a battle where I forced octillery out twice and had 3 occasions to to kill it but things like it getting a speed boost first turn, double protects etc make it very hard to knock it down and it eventually swept me

 

[lmitchell0012]

I came so close to finding a decent counter to octillery, but since unaware doesn't ignore speed boosts, looks like it's back to the drawing board...

 

[TheAmazingFlygon]

I came so close to finding a decent counter to octillery, but since unaware doesn't ignore speed boosts, looks like it's back to the drawing board...

Speed boosts are good for you; making Octillery faster means he can't resub turn after turn.

 

[j99ubers]

Yeh but it just outspeeds you on the next turn then sets up a sub.

 

[Coronis]

Or he can just sub before you have the chance to attack, and protect every other turn.

 

[XienZo]

Speed boosts are good for you; making Octillery faster means he can't resub turn after turn.

What? Octillery can still sub over and over, it's just that he no longer has to predict what you're going to do anymore.

Edit: horribly ninja'd

 

[lmitchell0012]

And if it gets a sub up, that means you can't poison it until you take down the sub. And if you can't poison it, you're probably not going to win the stall war.