tbh Mantine and Pelipper see so little usage in RU that it's better off running Substitute to do better vs. defensive teams, setting up on things like +0 Cresselia, Alomomola, and many others. (cba to run calcs now, sorry)
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Metagame NP: RU Stage 6: Heavy Metal and Reflective (ALL 3 SUSPECTS BANNED, DISCUSSING POST BANS META NOW)
- Thread starter Molk
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I never thought I'd see the day where I post something on the wrong goddamn forum SMFH kill me please
lol I was sure something was wrong there @_@
Typhlosion acts as a sort of deterrent for Moltres. Moltres doesn't want to Fire Blast things, especially when Choiced, in case Typhlosion soaks it up and destroys things.
Specs FF Typh deals 50-90% damage to Moltres with max power Eruption/Fire Blast, killing it if it switched into Rocks. Of course this is in a perfect world where I successfully predict Fire Blast and Rocks are only on his side of the field so I benefit from maximum Eruption damage.
The biggest reason to run FF Typhlosion is to punish Fire-types by becoming a nuclear bomb with Specs and smashing most things not named Slowking, Lanturn, Rhyperior*, Alomomola, AV Druddi, or Jellicent. (HP Grass isn't even that worth it vs these because it does almost the same damage as FF boosted Fire Blast and it doesn't come anywhere close to KOing.)
It even has an 18% chance to OHKO SubCM Cress before boosts with a 92% chance of preventing it from subbing up, and the 252/104 Cress set on the calc takes 80-95%.
Again this is in a perfect world where Typh doesn't get worn down by Rocks/faster Pokemon/priority so ultimately the Eruption calcs aren't exactly law.
*=I don't know if the calc factors in Solid Rock for HP Grass v Rhyperior but it's a 2HKO anyway.
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That's Typhlosion's main issue. The other thing is with lack of offensive checks(mega-Bird last meta) that outspeed Moltres it has shed its scarf in many cases for a Life Orb which means A Moltres isn't locked and B it can
252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 261-308 (87.8 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
and it is an OHKO after rocks as we both see. Flash Fire certainly will buff Typhlosion in NU but its impact on RU seems less convincing to me. We have a fine flash Fire absorber in Houndoom and as has been its issue since its inception: Typhosion has a a very shallow move pool limited to fire STABs, Focus Blast, HP whatever, and Extraensory. If we are using a blind fire type with powerful STABs Moltres will do the role better most of the time, no? It has Fire Blast and STAB on its other 70% move unlike Typhlosion.
While certainly a panacea(or the opposite) for NU Flash Fire on Typhlosion hasn't yet convinced me that it will shake up RU that much if at all(But I have been wrong before so I guess let's wait for its release and see)
Typhlosion meanwhile can outspeed non-Scarfs and respond to Moltres with either Specs or Wise Glasses/Expert Belt HP Rock which is an OHKO. (Fails to OHKO with HP Rock without some power-boosting item or Modest nature, also barely fails to OHKO SubRoost variants without Specs.)
I feel that Typhlosion will definitely have an impact purely because of how much damage it can drop and how fast it is and doesn't need much more support than other Rocks-weak sweepers.
Coverage is certainly an issue, not taking HP Grass leaves Typh without a way to kill Gastro/Quag (I think those are the only HP Grass targets that take a notable amount of damage, unless Rhyperior takes 68-81% even after Solid Rock.), and not taking HP Rock leaves Typh without a way to kill Fire-types (Although max power Eruption will still put a severe dent in them) especially Houndoom who walls Typh without HP Rock/Focus Blast.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 106-126 (26.9 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 109-129 (27.7 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Slowking Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 272-324 (91.5 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Wew lad.
HP is shit for 2x weaknesses, but it hits Moltres, Quag, and Gastro hard. Unfortunately you can't hit all three at once.
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Alrighty, this Typh discussion is starting to get a bit out of hand x.x. Personally, i really don't see Typhlosion making much of an impact even with Flash Fire released. It's still pretty much the same Pokemon as before, and it still has the same issues that it did in the past (Competition from other Fire-types, the only real advantage Typhlosion has over say Delphox and Houndoom here is Eruption, which is only really an advantage if you can keep it at full HP at *all* times).
As for using a Pokemon with Flash Fire to deter Moltres and the like from spamming Fire Blast, i really don't see a reason not to just use Houndoom here. Houndoom has a ton of important things over Typhlosion, including a secondary STAB that makes getting past Slowking a breeze, a deadly boosting move in the form of Nasty Plot, and access to useful moves such as Sucker Punch, Pursuit, Taunt, and Destiny Bond.
What does Typhlosion have over Houndoom here? Eruption and.......5 more Speed Points that rarely matter in the current metagame? (all you really do is tie with Glalie post mega evolution and *always* outspeed Drapion and other Houndoom, the latter of which can just snipe you with Sucker Punch anyway, Sigilyph also falls between Houndoom and Typh's Speed tier, but it's not exactly common and Houndoom is the bane of Sigi's existence regardless of whether it outspeeds it or not .-.).
Idk, i just *really* don't see the appeal in typh
As for using a Pokemon with Flash Fire to deter Moltres and the like from spamming Fire Blast, i really don't see a reason not to just use Houndoom here. Houndoom has a ton of important things over Typhlosion, including a secondary STAB that makes getting past Slowking a breeze, a deadly boosting move in the form of Nasty Plot, and access to useful moves such as Sucker Punch, Pursuit, Taunt, and Destiny Bond.
What does Typhlosion have over Houndoom here? Eruption and.......5 more Speed Points that rarely matter in the current metagame? (all you really do is tie with Glalie post mega evolution and *always* outspeed Drapion and other Houndoom, the latter of which can just snipe you with Sucker Punch anyway, Sigilyph also falls between Houndoom and Typh's Speed tier, but it's not exactly common and Houndoom is the bane of Sigi's existence regardless of whether it outspeeds it or not .-.).
Idk, i just *really* don't see the appeal in typh
Flash Fire seems like a worse ability than Blaze on Typhlosion for me:
For Flash Fire working, you must send Typh into a Fire type move, what means you have to predict more for it to be actually effective, and most importantly, Flash Fire removes most of the pressure to damage, as Blaze boosted Fire Blast does more damage than full HP Eruption, meaning Typhlosion will have more power instead of losing it. Also, most common Fire types like Emboar, Moltres, Delphox and Houndoom have a secondary STAB to work with, so they will heavily damage Typhlosion if a misprediction happens and they also outclass Typhlosion by the same reason. So I just don't see much reason to use Flash Fire over Blaze (unless you're a prediction god) on Typhlosion.
For Flash Fire working, you must send Typh into a Fire type move, what means you have to predict more for it to be actually effective, and most importantly, Flash Fire removes most of the pressure to damage, as Blaze boosted Fire Blast does more damage than full HP Eruption, meaning Typhlosion will have more power instead of losing it. Also, most common Fire types like Emboar, Moltres, Delphox and Houndoom have a secondary STAB to work with, so they will heavily damage Typhlosion if a misprediction happens and they also outclass Typhlosion by the same reason. So I just don't see much reason to use Flash Fire over Blaze (unless you're a prediction god) on Typhlosion.
Is anyone else using Jellicent atm? I'm really liking its standard set and it handles the rising mega's of Glalie and Camerupt well.
Taunt is also really nice and with some speed ev's is actually faster then pretty much all defensive pokemon (!). Will o Wisp is also pretty great as well as a way to burn without fishing with scald. It also allows Jellicent to invest ev's in special defense while still being able to do well against physical attackers via burn. It also spinblocks kabutops (which apparently people use).
Obviously, the ghost typing is kind of a mixed bag because being weak to knock off and dark types in general isn't a good thing.
Jellicent also doesn't really wall any fighting types because of knock off which is pretty >.>.
Overall though, I think Jellicent is actually pretty decent, thought I've only just started playing the tier a couple days ago so idk.
P.S Can someone p.m me how to do insert sprites? That would be greatly appreciated :)
Taunt is also really nice and with some speed ev's is actually faster then pretty much all defensive pokemon (!). Will o Wisp is also pretty great as well as a way to burn without fishing with scald. It also allows Jellicent to invest ev's in special defense while still being able to do well against physical attackers via burn. It also spinblocks kabutops (which apparently people use).
Obviously, the ghost typing is kind of a mixed bag because being weak to knock off and dark types in general isn't a good thing.
Jellicent also doesn't really wall any fighting types because of knock off which is pretty >.>.
Overall though, I think Jellicent is actually pretty decent, thought I've only just started playing the tier a couple days ago so idk.
P.S Can someone p.m me how to do insert sprites? That would be greatly appreciated :)
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It is not a legal combination as Shiftry can only get Leaf Blade through Nuzleaf levelling up in ORAS, but can only get Sucker Punch through Gen 4 Move Tutor -- which Nuzleaf can't. The same problem happens in that Showdown seems to think lati@s with both Defog and Whirlpool is legal.
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