SM UU Beta (Mewnium Z, Staraptor, Victini banned)

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Stuff that needs to go:

Terrakion. What counters does this thing actually have? Not checks, Counters. Rockium Z Stone Edge shreds the tier at +2, Close Combat nails the few things that can take it, it's fast and has OK bulk. Get it out.

Serperior. Why is this thing legal? Thanks to Contrary you get a 130 BP STAB Nasty Plot, it's very fast and it's no one trick pony. It's got Glare to cripple fast frail mons, Taunt to shut down walls, it can run an AoA set and a defensive one equally well. It's very fast as well.

Weavile. It's safe switch ins are pretty much Keldeo and Primarina, both of whom hate losing their items due to Knock Off. It has STAB priority as well, so you can't revenge it with faster stuff.
 
Stuff that needs to go:

Terrakion. What counters does this thing actually have? Not checks, Counters. Rockium Z Stone Edge shreds the tier at +2, Close Combat nails the few things that can take it, it's fast and has OK bulk. Get it out.

Serperior. Why is this thing legal? Thanks to Contrary you get a 130 BP STAB Nasty Plot, it's very fast and it's no one trick pony. It's got Glare to cripple fast frail mons, Taunt to shut down walls, it can run an AoA set and a defensive one equally well. It's very fast as well.

Weavile. It's safe switch ins are pretty much Keldeo and Primarina, both of whom hate losing their items due to Knock Off. It has STAB priority as well, so you can't revenge it with faster stuff.
Terrakion: Palossand counters very well, especially double dance and CB sets.

+4 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 286-337 (76.4 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Palossand Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 212-252 (65.6 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Serperior: Crobat and Torn-T are pretty good checks, just have to watch out for Glare.

Weavile: annoying especially since M-Aggron isn't here. But, Cobalion is a decent check, just has to watch out for a boosted Low Kick. You can even run a Z-Crystal to be a KO absorber. Scarf Terrakion, Infernape are good checks too. But, Keldeo and Primarina are some of the best checks.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Stuff that needs to go:

Terrakion. What counters does this thing actually have? Not checks, Counters. Rockium Z Stone Edge shreds the tier at +2, Close Combat nails the few things that can take it, it's fast and has OK bulk. Get it out.

Serperior. Why is this thing legal? Thanks to Contrary you get a 130 BP STAB Nasty Plot, it's very fast and it's no one trick pony. It's got Glare to cripple fast frail mons, Taunt to shut down walls, it can run an AoA set and a defensive one equally well. It's very fast as well.

Weavile. It's safe switch ins are pretty much Keldeo and Primarina, both of whom hate losing their items due to Knock Off. It has STAB priority as well, so you can't revenge it with faster stuff.
Defensive counters to Terrakion not named Palossand are a bit lacking, certainly...But Hippowdon exists, ya know:

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 325-383 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And Mega Slowbro still takes +2 Rockium Z Stone Edge if you run a fair amount of Defense:

+2 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

By that extent, it goes without saying that you handle LO Terrakion too, even without 140 Defense:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 220-259 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That's much more Defense than Mega Bro typically runs (far as I know), but if you're that worried about Terrakion, it gets the job done. That aside, in the current metagame as offensive as it is, it's pretty easy to keep Terrakion in check offensively...You have threats that carry priority and can easily revenge it in Azumarill, Scizor, Breloom, Infernape, and Conkeldurr, threats that naturally outspeed or at the very worst, tie with Terrakion and force it to gamble in the likes of Keldeo, Serperior, Cobalion, Weavile, Starmie, Latias, Thundurus, Mega Aerodactyl, and Gengar, to name a few. Lastly, Choice Scarf users such as Keldeo, Thundurus-Therian, Staraptor, and Salamence can also revenge kill it with ease. All of these Pokemon I listed are relevant threats in the meta, and you're likely to see some of them on every team you face. This is how Terrakion is kept in check...don't get me wrong it shreds defensive teams like nobody's business, but with all the threats we have to contend with, the defensive playstyles that Terrakion excels against are generally tougher to pull off anyway.

This same exact argument exists for Serperior, though it's a bit harder to revenge kill becauase of that Base 113 Speed stat. Still, sets lacking HP Fire 100% lose to Scizor, base 115s and above like Starmie, Tornadus-T, Raikou, etc. can still take on Serperior. Defensively AV Dhelmise, SpD Decidueye, Mandibuzz, Klefki, and Blissey all work against Serperior.

Also Azumarill is a pretty solid switch-in to Weavile, especially if you run Z-Belly Drum, because that means Azumarill is immune to Knock Off and can set up on Weavile so long as it lacks Poison Jab.
 
weavile is the easiest thing to counter of all those mons listed. anything with intimidate or mach punch/bullet punch and it pretty much loses. also that one rock fox thing has a priority rock move, so yeah. weavile is weak af and sr weak. so lay down your damn rocks.

terrakion is strong af. i wouldnt be opposed to a quickban on it, just cause it does hit like a motherfucker.

serperior is pretty easy to take car of as CoolStoryBrobat mentioned above. it's not impossible and has plenty of things that check it and counter it.
 
weavile is the easiest thing to counter of all those mons listed. anything with intimidate or mach punch/bullet punch and it pretty much loses. also that one rock fox thing has a priority rock move, so yeah. weavile is weak af and sr weak. so lay down your damn rocks.

terrakion is strong af. i wouldnt be opposed to a quickban on it, just cause it does hit like a motherfucker.

serperior is pretty easy to take car of as CoolStoryBrobat mentioned above. it's not impossible and has plenty of things that check it and counter it.
Lycanroc-Midday does a decent job of checking Weavile. It's almost like a rock Weavile itself. A slightly weaker, slightly slower rock Weavile with a worse movepool. Accelerock lets it force things out that Weavile can't, like Volcarona, while also threatening fliers similar to Weavile, just on the merit of Accelerock. It also doesn't need to be healthy or risk dying to Ice Shard, like Breloom. Its movepool holds it back in spite of that, though, I think.

As for Weavile, it can be hard to find things to switch into it that aren't chunked super hard by Knock Off and can still threaten to KO it without an item, without getting KO'd in return. Defensive Arcanine can do so and it can heal back up with Morning Sun, although that SR weakness really hurts it and losing Leftovers is pretty bad for it. Defensive Hitmontop can also be good specifically for Weavile, resisting SR and having access to Mach Punch, but likes to lose Leftovers even less. Something else to consider is that Intimidate users can be a liability right now if you happen to run into Bisharp.

But to be fair, SR does really hamper Weavile's effectiveness, and you don't have to threaten to OHKO it to scare it off. Bulky waters like Milotic can function okay without Leftovers, don't necessarily have to worry about getting 2HKO'd if they're healthy, and can cripple Weavile with a burn in return.

Basically what I'm saying is I agree with you. Weavile is the easiest to deal with of those three as long as you're good about keeping SR up. Stay or go, I could understand why, but I personally don't think that it's a high priority compared to some of the other things currently in the tier, like Terrakion.
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
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I agree with other posters in the thread that we shouldn't be screaming "quickban" yet for everything.

however....

Porygon Z is fucking insane and definitely deserves a quick ban. PZ has completely ruined my ladder experience because no matter how many times I've created a nice rounded offense team that can have at least a small amount of counterplay to every threat, Porygon Z has come and straight up swept it. I thought that having a Scarf Pokemon like Scarf Infernape would help, but no, it just easily tanks the damage. Powerful priority from the likes of Weavile and Dragonite are easily recovered off of. I tried running Blissey offense once but it literally pulled out a Nasty Plot and swept me. This pokemon is almost impossible to counterplay for offense since traditional answers like priority and Scarf pokemon (except Krookodile) cannot stop it, and other teams are literally forced into running super fat pokemon with Toxic.

There are so many factors that make Porygon Z a nightmare. There's the fact that it has insane Bolt-Beam coverage which is amazing in this metagame where the only resists are Rotom-Heat, Lanturn, and Magneton (all of which need Toxic to beat it). Almost every relevant pokemon in the metagame is vulnerable to a powerful Thunderbolt or Ice Beam in some way, and it becomes nearly impossible to fit a Porygon check with offensive presence on a team. Because of the incredible bulk boost of Z-conversion, it sets up vs nearly every pokemon that is slower than it and not running Toxic or Earthquake. Yes, you can make it hard for Porygon to sweep you if you run a team with pokemon all faster than it, but even then the opponent may have easy options such as Aurora Veil or Memento. Not to mention that is not healthy at all. Finally, the Electric typing is a great typing for sweeping because it resists or is neutral to all priority, and its neutrality to so many types lets Porygon abuse Recover to a ridiculous level.

Yeah other boosting threats like Salamence and Hawlucha may be scary, but none of them have this close to perfect coverage, reliable recovery, and a neutrality to all priority. This is what makes PZ way way more quickban worthy than all the others (except perhaps Dragonite).

It's impossible to have a healthy enough metagame to even possibly decide what pokemon are broken or not when you have to overprepare for this thing on every team because it just wins in one turn.
 
(crawdaunt v2)
Golisopod @ Choice Band
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation / Leech Life
- Poison Jab / Leech Life

Click First Impression!

A Pokemon I haven't see being used lately, Choice Band set is very underated and strong actually, 125 BS coupled to Choice Band plus priorities allows it to revenge kill most borderline broken things backed up with Stealth Rock: Salamence takes a rough 45% on First Impression (u just need to weaken it while setuping DD), Dragonite 40% (same thing + SR), Porygon-Z takes ~70% at with +1 in Defense (max roll 80), Bisharp (roll) and Breloom die to First Impression, and can kills m-aero and victini after rocks, ect. High Defense with Water-type allows it to check Scizor with no speed and can 2hko back with Liquidation. Two last moves are kinda filler, Liquidation bypass bulky things such as Hippodown, Poison Jab hits Fairy and allows Golisopod to check non fully invested Belly Drum Azumarill, Leech Life is filler and only here if you wanna recovery move, First Impression hits harder. (EDIT: Salamence and Dragonite are banned, Galisopod gettin' better?)

But why it's not borken ?_?

As you (probably) know Emergency Exit is a very bad Ability coupled to a hazard weak type and low speed tie, even if it can give momentum in some scenarios, it sucks because of its low speed, your opponent got a free switch out if you're in range of its attack, and it's even worse when you're choice locked into First Impression. Gettin' it's choice band revealed is even worse, because it can get easily played around. Since First Impression can only be used on the first turn, Golisopod always switch-out and come after, and due to its Bug-type it absolutely needs Hazard removal backup or it'll die to the first priority coming.

moar underated stuff comin' soon

And pz needs to go.
 
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Sam

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VOLSAMION (Volcanion) @ Grassium Z
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

This thing is stupid levels of ridiculous. Bloom Doom is able to nail pretty much any water, HP Ice hits the 2 main dragons, and pretty much anything else gets destroyed by one of its STABs. 172 spe lets you outspeed jolly azu to check it late game if that becomes an issue. It's a decent check to a ton of threat (Scizor, Keldeo, Primarina, etc.) and on its own is pretty much capable or running through slower teams.

EDIT: 176 spe can get modest primarina too
 
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I agree with other posters in the thread that we shouldn't be screaming "quickban" yet for everything.

however....

Porygon Z is fucking insane and definitely deserves a quick ban. PZ has completely ruined my ladder experience because no matter how many times I've created a nice rounded offense team that can have at least a small amount of counterplay to every threat, Porygon Z has come and straight up swept it. I thought that having a Scarf Pokemon like Scarf Infernape would help, but no, it just easily tanks the damage. Powerful priority from the likes of Weavile and Dragonite are easily recovered off of. I tried running Blissey offense once but it literally pulled out a Nasty Plot and swept me. This pokemon is almost impossible to counterplay for offense since traditional answers like priority and Scarf pokemon (except Krookodile) cannot stop it, and other teams are literally forced into running super fat pokemon with Toxic.

There are so many factors that make Porygon Z a nightmare. There's the fact that it has insane Bolt-Beam coverage which is amazing in this metagame where the only resists are Rotom-Heat, Lanturn, and Magneton (all of which need Toxic to beat it). Almost every relevant pokemon in the metagame is vulnerable to a powerful Thunderbolt or Ice Beam in some way, and it becomes nearly impossible to fit a Porygon check with offensive presence on a team. Because of the incredible bulk boost of Z-conversion, it sets up vs nearly every pokemon that is slower than it and not running Toxic or Earthquake. Yes, you can make it hard for Porygon to sweep you if you run a team with pokemon all faster than it, but even then the opponent may have easy options such as Aurora Veil or Memento. Not to mention that is not healthy at all. Finally, the Electric typing is a great typing for sweeping because it resists or is neutral to all priority, and its neutrality to so many types lets Porygon abuse Recover to a ridiculous level.

Yeah other boosting threats like Salamence and Hawlucha may be scary, but none of them have this close to perfect coverage, reliable recovery, and a neutrality to all priority. This is what makes PZ way way more quickban worthy than all the others (except perhaps Dragonite).

It's impossible to have a healthy enough metagame to even possibly decide what pokemon are broken or not when you have to overprepare for this thing on every team because it just wins in one turn.
There actually a few ways to check PZ. SDef Hippowdon can survive Modest +1 ice beam and whirlwind out.

+1 252+ SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 294-346 (70 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You can also use Priority Encore from Whimsicott when it Converts or Recovers. Scarf Imposter Ditto is another decent option to deter boosting.

Physically defensive Quagsire with Unaware is a good option. You can go SDef, but ice beam is a 3hko.

252+ SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Quagsire: 157-185 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If you want to get more creative, Sp Def Whirlwind Snorlax can easily come in and phaze.

+1 252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 226-266 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Edit: Haven't tested if Encore works in Z-Moves, but Z-Memento is a super viable strategy as well. Also, faster taunt users like Cobalion, Terrakion, Froslass, and even Azelf can stop set up. I'm running PZ HO with BU Bewear as a WinCon back up. I'm running 2 fast Taunt users that both threaten PZ from setting up. Running Sp Def Hippowdon is not meta breaking, just regular adaptations to new meta imo.
 
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Eyan

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Tsareena @ Leftovers
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Trop Kick
- U-turn / Aromatherapy
- Synthesis
- Rapid Spin

Alright, so with all these big offensive threats in the tier right now, and looking at what has been brought up so far, I'd like to talk about something different. As far as spinners go, Tsareena is one of the few good ones we have, alongside others like Starmie (as far as Dhelmise goes: https://puu.sh/t6QHc/eb4dee7490.png), but it's heavily slept on. I tend to see a really mediocre offensive set being used, but the defensive set is a great check to a multitude of threats. Trop Kick is obnoxious to switch into, which provides great utility. It gets reliable recovery in Synthesis, and acts as a pretty good pivot with U-turn. You could run Aromatherapy over U-turn if you really need it as a cleric but I've always preferred U-turn. This set allows Tsareena to check things such as Azumarill, Keldeo, Zygarde-10% that isn't locked into Outrage if it's banded, Breloom, etc. Note that this thing isn't exactly the bulkiest thing around, so don't go around trying to switch it into Specs Keldeo's Secret Sword or something. You'd still need some decent support and/or backup checks in order to utilise this Pokemon well.

I know Hogg runs a spread of 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe which outruns Jolly Azumarill and Modest Primarina, but I'm personally still toying around with spreads.
 
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Encore will fail if you try to encore a Z-Move. Tested it last night in a single battle with a buddy of mine when he Twinkle Tackled me because I was curious what it would do.
That's what I thought, either way Z-Memento from Whimsicott will do instead. Also, Taunt won't work on Z-Moves, so I'd just click CC from Cobalion or Terrakion when facing down PZ before Z-Conversion.

Edit: Here's a battle I just had where opponent checked PZ with Gastrodon with Clear Smog. But, then they met BU Bewear :)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-514210583
 
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Tsareena @ Leftovers
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Trop Kick
- U-turn / Aromatherapy
- Synthesis
- Rapid Spin

Alright, so with all these big offensive threats in the tier right now, and looking at what has been brought up so far, I'd like to talk about something different. As far as spinners go, Tsareena is one of the few good ones we have, alongside others like Starmie (as far as Dhelmise goes: https://puu.sh/t6QHc/eb4dee7490.png), but it's heavily slept on. I tend to see a really mediocre offensive set being used, but the defensive set is a great check to a multitude of threats. Trop Kick is obnoxious to switch into, which provides great utility. It gets reliable recovery in Synthesis, and acts as a pretty good pivot with U-turn. You could run Aromatherapy over U-turn if you really need it as a cleric but I've always preferred U-turn. This set allows Tsareena to check things such as Azumarill, Keldeo, Zygarde-10% that isn't locked into Outrage if it's banded, Breloom, etc. Note that this thing isn't exactly the bulkiest thing around, so don't go around trying to switch it into Specs Keldeo's Secret Sword or something. You'd still need some decent support and/or backup checks in order to utilise this Pokemon well.

I know Hogg runs a spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe with a Jolly nature which outruns Jolly Azumarill and Modest Primarina, but I'm personally still toying around with spreads.
Confirming this set is really solid. Its ability to check Zygarde-10% in addition to Rapid Spin makes it a really effective member for balance teams. Hadn't even considered running recovery on it though, that's an interesting idea. Even on a defensive set, High Jump Kick is worth considering as well, since it outdamages Trop Kick despite STAB.
 

YABO

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Sup.

Okay so I just want to talk about some cool pokemon I've tried so far. None of these are their most effective sets but they're definitely worth looking into.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Fly
- Roost

No surprise that Dragonite performs well no matter what you do. This set works differently than the Z Fly set by sacrificing immediate pressure for longevity and survivability. These evs are just the recommended spread on PS so I wouldn't take them too seriously but it functions. Sub lets you set up on pokemon like Suicune and block Toxics from ruining your day. I'd partner this with a Heal Bell user as you're probably going to get caught with a Scald burn at some point and that's super annoying. TSpikes are also crazy effective in combination with this since you can just Sub Stall for extra damage if necessary.


Breloom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb
- Bullet Seed

Seen a fair few people talk about Breloom but I don't think anyones mentioned Scarf as an option. While this mostly looks for surprise factor, it works really well. A fast Spore can be invaluable and sweeping with Bullet Seed or Superpower is pretty easy once you've weakened your opponents team. It's fast enough to outspeed all the current fast pokemon like Torn-T but obviously falls short of Mega Aero. Rock Tomb knocks out Torn T after rocks which is cool. The main reason I like this is that you don't need to be so anal about preserving a sash to revenge some things late game. Missing out on Mach Punch is unfortunate of course but if you really wanted to you could drop Spore. This lets you revenge Weavile which is cool.


Krookodile @ Groundium Z / Firium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Fire Fang
- Stealth Rock

Fire Fang on Krookodiles actually really cool atm. It lets you pop Scizor for at least 60 depending on its set. I haven't tried Firium Z yet but I think it could be neat to one shot bulky scizor and do stupid damage to Forretress. Groundium Z is just an awesome nuke option. For reference Z Fire Fang does 80 min to Max Def Forretress which means it straight dies after a Knock Off, letting you win the hazard game. Firium Z is probably too niche but its an option.


Empoleon @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

Empoleon just has really good typing to abuse a bunch of the top threats atm and set up on them. Latias, Locked Weavile, Azumarill, etc. Not to mention it serves as a "stop" to the Z Fly dragons with Shuca Ice Beam. You have to clear the way for it just because of its lack of power but if you play smart it can sweep a lot of the typical offensive teams we're seeing right now. Just be aware that Keldeo and Azumarill are light pieces of shit and need to be severely weakened to get picked off by Grass Knot.

Some other general observations I've had. Phys Def Klefki is cool, idk if its better but it's definitely cool. Blissey is super good atm, just run Toxic and watch teams crumble in front of you. Tentacruel is also really good, can set Tspikes on a fair few dudes and spins pretty easily. In general it's really hard to keep up SR due to good removal and the heavy offensive pressure that pretty much every team can put out. This compounds into making mons like Salamence and especially Dragonite crazy threatening. Scizor is ridiculously good but not in a broken way i don't think. Porygon Z is also really good.
 


It's crazy how a Pokemon can go from borderline unviable (because almost 100% outclassed by Mamoswine) to borderline broken with one tier shift. CB Diggersby is so much fun to use. One U-turn from something like Forretress or Tornadus and you can essentially guarantee a kill with a STAB move. If you want to counter it, you have to us physically defensive already-evolved Mega Aerodactyl, otherwise even Alomomola will just die to two Returns and even Dhelmise will die to two Earthquakes after rocks. Fire Punch to OHKO Scizor and Decidueye, Quick Attack to pick off weakened shit like Sharpedo, Agility Thund, and DD Mence. Someone's been using a stall with no Ground resist and it's amazing to watch everything drop to EQ (even with a Ground resist everything drops to Return). This is definitely the Pokemon I've enjoyed using the most in beta so far.


Mew @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball

Really good balance breaker, very similar to Celebi from last gen but not nearly as predictable (NP Celebi is still really good too, though). These moves give you the best coverage against typical balance Pokemon and even is perfect against stall teams that are being used, although it's still walled by Hydreigon and Mandibuzz. It's also unfortunately susceptible to Weavile and even with Colbur Berry you probably won't be getting more than a kill if your opponent has one.


Sharpedo @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Ice Fang / Waterfall
- Protect

Great sweeper right now since bulky offense is the primary playstyle and Dark resists are really uncommon. Unlike last gen, there's very few Sylveons and Conkeldurrs, and while Cobalion is admittedly really good, Sharpedo is still great. Psychic Fangs is especially great for Azumarill and Primarina. You don't necessarily need Waterfall, but it's pretty useful for taking out Weavile and Bisharp. Shark's underrated, but really easy to be weak to (just like it started out in XY).
 
Confirming this set is really solid. Its ability to check Zygarde-10% in addition to Rapid Spin makes it a really effective member for balance teams. Hadn't even considered running recovery on it though, that's an interesting idea. Even on a defensive set, High Jump Kick is worth considering as well, since it outdamages Trop Kick despite STAB.
Trop Kick has the added Atk drop that annoys physical attackers. It might not hit quite as hard, but it's a really strong STAB that adds to her longevity(especially if you're running Synth+Leftovers). Plus, coming off of freakin 120 base Atk is no joke. She's not gonna wall a ton obviously. Tsareena is definitely a solid check to things like Zydog though.

She's also fairly solid specially defensive too. Mono-grass gives her some pretty great special resists and gives a decent check to things like Z-Con Porygon and Specs Raikou.

252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tsareena: 132-156 (37.9 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Tsareena Trop Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raikou: 111-132 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Assuming PZ goes Electric:
+1 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tsareena: 111-131 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Assuming Ghost:
+1 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tsareena: 196-232 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ice Beam is a 2HKO too which kind of sucks, but she survives giving her a slow turn into something that can handle porygon.

I may be a bit biased giving her too much credit though because I really like Tsareena.

Sidenote, I mostly lurk these forums and use the tiering system when doing cartridge play with my friends. I really enjoy all your theory crafting you guys do, just don't super like simulator play.
 
reading dodmen's post about diggersby got me thinking, does cb bunny have any switchins?
the only thing that comes to mind that survives 2 of anything is tangela lmao and even then
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
dat 0.4% tho
you could alternatively be forced into running a phys def regen core to scout and switch into appropriate counter with like slowbro and etc

also scizor needs to go its way too easy to get rid of fire types and just sd up and sweep
 
Actually after SR CB Diggersby has no safe switchins. It is, however, easy to revenge kill if locked into a move. So scizor's best set is swords dance, not CB scizor?
 
It's so nice to have Mew and Raikou back in UU where they belong. SubCM Raikou is as awesome as ever.

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice

Fantastic late game cleaner. With Substitute Porygon2 is set up fodder. Calm Mind gives it the power needed to sweep. Thunderbolt is the STAB; Hidden Power Ice hits the Dragon, Grass and Ground types that resist Thunderbolt. It needs bulky Ground types and special walls down, which makes SD Virizion a great teammate.

Here's a replay where it forces Primarina out and proceeds to sweep the entire team. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-514536601
 
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DrReuniclus

Smogon's full of bullies.
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

Hi! I wanted to make a post about gyarados because I haven't really seen anybody talk about it much yet. While it is currently overshadowed slightly by other set up sweepers in the tier such as salamence and dragonite, gyarados is still a huge threat in the sun and moon underused metagame similarly to its oras counterpart. Z moves have made the moxie set highly more effective in the metagame in my opinion and, after a dragon dance, it can ohko the likes of azumarill, volcanion, latias and various other things with z bounce allowing it to get off a moxie boost and wreck even more havoc on opposing teams. Its also really nice that it resists scizor's bullet punch and is neutral to weavile's ice shard unlike the two sweepers mentioned earlier, allowing it to get off an easier sweep or just doing a lot of damage vs a lot of teams.

Additionally, being able to have to option to sub vs status with the extra moveslot is really nice as dragonite needs to keep multiscale and mence usually just runs coverage. Here is the most common set that I've seen and been using and a few replays where it breaks down some teams while I was got looked at weirdly by a group of college girls for playing pokemon in a college library.

Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Substitute/Earthquake

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-514745315
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-514737998

Also if someone can pull off some z-celebrate gyarados stuff that might be cool, I wanna see something do z-celebrate well, which originally got me to go to gyara but I couldn't pull it off and realized it had better options.
 
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Hi! I wanted to make a post about gyarados because I haven't really seen anybody talk about it much yet. While it is currently overshadowed slightly by other set up sweepers in the tier such as salamence and dragonite, gyarados is still a huge threat in the sun and moon underused metagame similarly to its oras counterpart. Z moves have made the moxie set highly more effective in the metagame in my opinion and, after a dragon dance, it can ohko the likes of azumarill, volcanion, latias and various other things with z bounce allowing it to get off a moxie boost and wreck even more havoc on opposing teams. Its also really nice that it resists scizor's bullet punch and is neutral to weavile's ice shard unlike the two sweepers mentioned earlier, allowing it to get off an easier sweep or just doing a lot of damage vs a lot of teams.

Additionally, being able to have to option to sub vs status with the extra moveslot is really nice as dragonite needs to keep multiscale and mence usually just runs coverage. Here is the most common set that I've seen and been using and a few replays where it breaks down some teams while I was got looked at weirdly by a group of college girls for playing pokemon in a college library.

Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Substitute/Earthquake

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-514745315
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-514737998

Also if someone can pull off some z-celebrate gyarados stuff that might be cool, I wanna see something do z-celebrate well, which originally got me to go to gyara but I couldn't pull it off and realized it had better options.
I don't think Z-celebrate is a particularly good set on Gyara. The opportunity cost is just too high. You have to consider why such a set would be worth using over Dragon Dance. You use your team's z-move slot for a one-time boost to both defenses. But in the process you're trading away the ability to set up more than once (you're absolutely ruined by phazing), you lose a reliable STAB in Z-Fly, or power in Life Orb, or recovery in Leftovers. And you're checked by many of the same things. It's just not really worth running. The only possible use, seems to me, is if you're somehow going to make use of the Special Attack boost. But you're piss-weak, and you're probably gonna have to use a SpDef-lowering nature which mostly defeats the purpose of the set. Just not very good.
 

Hi! I wanted to make a post about gyarados because I haven't really seen anybody talk about it much yet. While it is currently overshadowed slightly by other set up sweepers in the tier such as salamence and dragonite, gyarados is still a huge threat in the sun and moon underused metagame similarly to its oras counterpart. Z moves have made the moxie set highly more effective in the metagame in my opinion and, after a dragon dance, it can ohko the likes of azumarill, volcanion, latias and various other things with z bounce allowing it to get off a moxie boost and wreck even more havoc on opposing teams. Its also really nice that it resists scizor's bullet punch and is neutral to weavile's ice shard unlike the two sweepers mentioned earlier, allowing it to get off an easier sweep or just doing a lot of damage vs a lot of teams.

Additionally, being able to have to option to sub vs status with the extra moveslot is really nice as dragonite needs to keep multiscale and mence usually just runs coverage. Here is the most common set that I've seen and been using and a few replays where it breaks down some teams while I was got looked at weirdly by a group of college girls for playing pokemon in a college library.

Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Substitute/Earthquake

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-514745315
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-514737998

Also if someone can pull off some z-celebrate gyarados stuff that might be cool, I wanna see something do z-celebrate well, which originally got me to go to gyara but I couldn't pull it off and realized it had better options.
Fly > Bounce. It gets Fly from RBY > PokeBank
 
We have decided to quickban Dragonite, Salamence and Weavile

Dragonite's impact on the metagame is unmatched. Its bulk, typing, and incredible ability make it extraordinarily easy to find setup opportunities throughout a game. It becomes impossibly hard to account for defensively due to its versatility: Lum Berry lets it set up more easily on Pokemon like Mega Slowbro and Mew while shrugging off Thundurus's and Klefki's attempts to check it, Supersonic Skystrike lets it plow through bulky Water- and Fairy-types and essentially guarantees a kill every game, and Weakness Policy deters Pokemon like Stone Edge Cobalion and weak Hidden Power Ice users from breaking its Multiscale. It also has all the moves it needs: Extreme Speed, Fire Punch, and Earthquake take out several of its would-be checks such as Weavile, Scizor, and Klefki, while Fly provides an extremely powerful STAB Z-move with excellent coverage as well as a good move for a mono-attacking set. It doesn't even necessarily need to run Dragon Dance, as Choice Band is an excellent set that can break unprepared teams with Outrage and check offensive threats like Zygarde-10% and Mega Sharpedo with ExtremeSpeed. Both in the teambuilder and during the battle, Dragonite is impossible to account for due to its unpredictability and perfect execution of its role.


Salamence is another Dragon/Flying-type that can easily set up due to its great typing and natural bulk, and proceed to ravage any team with its raw power. Intimidate lets it find more set-up opportunities, while Moxie allows it to sweep more easily. This Pokemon was banned in ORAS UU for similar reasons, but it's only gotten better with the addition of Z moves. Z-Fly lets Salamence break past Pokemon like Sylveon, Primarina, Hippowdon, and Mega Slowbro without relying on an inaccurate Iron Tail or locking into Outrage. From there, Z-Fly pairs perfectly with Moxie, letting Salamence snowball out of control after just one turn of setup and allowing it to use Dragon Claw over Outrage as it accumulates Attack boosts. Though it's easier to revenge kill with priority than Dragonite, Salamence's higher Speed mandates a faster Scarfer such as Terrakion and Keldeo, and completely removes Mega Aerodactyl as a check.


Weavile's high base Speed coupled with a strong Knock Off and great secondary STAB lets it excel against offensive and balanced teams. Coverage options such as Poison Jab and Low Kick remove many of its checks, such as Azumarill and Cobalion, while STAB Ice Shard makes it a great revenge killer and difficult to check with most faster Pokemon. One of its biggest assets is Pursuit, which lets it remove a huge amount of Pokemon like Latias, Starmie, Alakazam, and Gengar, as well as weakened Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, and Serperior generally making these Pokemon a huge liability. This, in turn, allows Pokemon such as Keldeo, Breloom, and Cobalion to tear through teams as their counters are either easily trapped or not even used at all. Weavile directly impacts the viability of many Pokemon and effectively removes the counters to some of the best Pokemon in the metagame. In combination with its excellent offensive presence, this makes it this round's third quickban.


Tagging The Immortal to remove those 3 Pokemon (Thanks). Might take a little bit for the ladder to update because he doesn't seem to be online atm.

====

Future quickbans will be done via council vote. The process is explained in this thread. The current members of the UU Council are:

dodmen
Hikari
Sam
Hogg
King UU
Bouff
Christo.
Pearl
Tony

Note that first few votes might not include any Rotating Council members due to logistic issues, but that will get sorted out in the near future.
 
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