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np: SM UU Stage 4 - Scary Monsters

Discussion in 'UnderUsed' started by Hogg, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Hogg

    Hogg You need to work on your brand.
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Gardevoir-Mega moved from OU to UU
    Jirachi moved from OU to UU
    Kingdra moved from BL3 to OU
    Nihilego moved from OU to UU
    Gallade-Mega moved from OU to UU
    Hawlucha moved from UU to OU
    Ampharos-Mega moved from OU to UU
    Latias-Mega moved from OU to UU
    Heracross-Mega moved from OU to UU
    Altaria-Mega moved from OU to UU
    Ninetales-Alola moved from UU to OU
    Smeargle moved from OU to UU
    Manectric-Mega moved from OU to UU
    Hoopa-Unbound moved from OU to UU
    Rotom-Wash moved from OU to UU


    Major changes are afoot!

    First, let's talk about what we lost: Ninetales-Alola, Hawlucha and Kingdra have all risen to OU. While Kingdra only saw minimal usage, Ninetales-A and Hawlucha were major parts of the tier, and together their departure means UnderUsed most likely waves goodbye to Aurora Veil as a common playstyle altogether.

    Now to the big ones: UU has seen a huge influx of major new threats, including quite a few new Mega evolutions: Gardevoir, Gallade, Ampharos, Latias, Heracross, Altaria and Manectric all saw their Mega evolutions drop to UU with this shift. Several non-Mega threats also have come down: Jirachi, Nihilego, Smeargle, Rotom-Wash and the monstrous Hoopa-Unbound have all entered the tier.

    Obviously this represents a lot of major changes to UU. Several of these threats have the potential to completely upset the tier. However, most of them are completely untested, having not been released during UU's alpha and beta stages. The UU Council has met and discussed how best to respond to these drops.

    In the end, the council has determined that we will quickban Hoopa-Unbound, Heracross-Mega and Gallade-Mega. While many of the other threats have the potential to be unhealthy, these three were near-unanimously agreed on to be too much for the tier. Hoopa-Unbound's incredible mixed offenses combined with a vast movepool and excellent special bulk give it a wide variety of sets that leave it impossible to counter. Heracross-Mega sports similar wallbreaking potential thanks to a sky-high Attack and several no-drawback high BP moves thanks to its ability, but trades some of Hoopa-U's Speed and upredictability for incredible bulk and the ability to set up with Swords Dance. Gallade-Mega benefited greatly from this generation's Speed mechanics, and with reasonable bulk, fantastic Speed and access to Swords Dance, it threatens both defensive and offensive teams alike.

    These quickbans give the tier a chance to adjust to the new threats and provide an opportunity for major UU tours such as UU Open and the Smogon Snake Draft Tour to proceed without undue interference. However, UU will be immediately suspecting Heracross-Mega and Gallade-Mega to determine if they can be reintroduced to the rest of the tier. The council felt that this was the best way to preserve the UU metagame while still allowing us to determine if Heracross-Mega and Gallade-Mega are as threatening in practice as they are on paper.

    The suspect test will have an N value of 20 and a COIL requirement of 2650. In addition, there will be a game limit of 90 games. It will last for two weeks. Heracross-Mega and Gallade-Mega WILL be allowed on the suspect ladder.

    You can calculate the number of games required using this formula:

    N=20.0/log2(40*GXE/2650)

    And what about the others? While many of the new threats have the potential to be similarly disruptive, the council felt that quickbanning such a large swath of Pokemon on theory alone was not a reasonable solution. However, the council will be testing many of the new threats, and may consider council bans or suspects on some of these threats in the near future. To these ends, this thread will be a bit different from most suspect threads, where we restrict discussion solely to the Pokemon being suspected. The UU Forum Staff will not be deleting off-topic posts that discuss the metagame in general. However, please do not use this as an opportunity to derail discussion about the suspects themselves.

    The Immortal and Eyan - please ban Heracross-Mega, Gallade-Mega and Hoopa-Unbound from UU, and set up the suspect ladder allowing Heracross-Mega and Gallade-Mega.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2017
  2. Yoshizilla315

    Yoshizilla315

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    Not reposting what I put in the other thread since I think Hogg would kill me so instead I'm going to talk about what Pokemon are going to change thanks to these drops.

    [​IMG] Infernape
    A lot of these drops beat Infernape entirely so I can see this drop in usage. However, it does help against Jirachi which is cool, but the other 90% of the drops give Infernape trouble. It may work as a check for Mega Gardevoir however, but there's just too much that prevents Infernape from doing what it does, like Rotom-Wash and Mega Latias.

    [​IMG]Weavile
    This Pokemon is going to be insane, as a Darkium Z set stops Mega Latias, as well as checking Mega Gardevoir as well. Mega Gardevoir and Mega Latias were two of the biggest discussion points in the UU room, and Weavile was brought up as well as answers. Jirachi may cause issues for this Pokemon, as well as Rotom-Wash, but I still think this Pokemon will rise in it's viability.

    [​IMG] Scizor
    This Pokemon will now be insane. It beats Mega Latias, Mega Gardevoir, and Nihilego. This Pokemon alone prevents these Pokemon from taking every team, so it's going to be everywhere. CB will be popular, to get max damage with U-Turn on Mega Latias.

    Those were just some Pokemon I thought would be used more. Also, first :3.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    Spinblade 237 and MaahirMomtaz12 like this.
  3. Yahooboo

    Yahooboo

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    Seems slightly contradictory.

    But anyway, Webs might end up being a better thing since Smeargle has dropped and Mega Gardevoir seems like it'd be fairly good for it, but I don't really know how well it would do vs Scizor's Bullet Punches. I suppose Rotom-Wash helps with Scizor somewhat by quad resisting Steel.

    edit: Yoshizilla315 Wouldn't an Icium-Z set do better vs both Mega Latias and Mega Gardevoir than Darkinium-Z? I suppose it makes it lose harder to Scizor, but it's not really achieving much there anyway.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  4. TheTraininator

    TheTraininator

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    I'm just curious, is there a reason that we are doing both the Mega Heracross and Mega Gallade suspects at the same time? It seems to me that would make it harder to focus on their nuanced individual impacts on the tier. Is it because Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are coming out soonish, or some other reason?
  5. Swaggy-G

    Swaggy-G

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    Could we have a chart showing the council's votes on those quickbans? Interested in seeing them.
  6. Yahooboo

    Yahooboo

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    Please note that I haven't got much knowledge on this at all and I'm probably wrong, but I would assume it's because both mons have a big impact on each other, and therefore you really have to see what the meta is like with them together to know if they're balanced. They're both physical fighting type megas, and Mega Gallade can really hurt Mega Heracross with Zen Headbutt, just for some examples.
    Yoshizilla315 likes this.
  7. Yoshizilla315

    Yoshizilla315

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    Yeah I was thinking Darkium Z hits Scizor but you're right it's not achieving much. Icium Z is probably more effective but Darkium Z also hits Steel types other than Scizor that may want to switch in.
  8. Freeroamer

    Freeroamer The greatest story of them all.

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    Can't believe no one has mentioned VoltTurn yet as I think it's going to be insane in this tier. I'm just about to leave for work so can't post a novel with nice sprites, but Rotom-W and Manectric are two pretty potent tools for the playstyle, and pair extremely well with scizor(what a surprise). Rotom literally has almost perfect type synergy with Scizor, and with the exception of Gastrodon/Seismitoad, forces every single Ground out with Pump meaning it's pretty much impossible to stop it pivoting. I think a Hydro Vortex set like Rotom-Cs Grassium set is cool here, as it comes with an added benefit of being able to check Weavile and it checks Krookodile better. Manectric obviously gives a real nice speed tier with the benefit of Intimidate to make checking Scizor a little smoother and in general helps it either force things out, or make he hit softer for whatever's coming in. I think VoltTurn is something people are going to have to find a way to prepare for because I think it's going to be extremely common going forward, even more so than it already is.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  9. Moutemoute

    Moutemoute

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    Tbh on the paper, both Gallade-Mega and Heracross-Mega seem broken.
    Gallade-Mega on is own take care at +2 of Stall (2HKO Quagsire with just 1 layer of spikes) while Heracross-Mega doesn't need a SD to rekt Stall (basically I think Bulled Seed in UU is a gr8 move).

    Btw there is so much new stuff, it's really cool and I'm kinda hype. Jirachi is a good Pokemon and can take care of Gardevoir-Mega which is really nice. With Rachi / Rotom-W, I trully think Balanced can be better now.
  10. ChrystalFalchion

    ChrystalFalchion
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    I'm surprised people aren't talking about this beauty.

    [​IMG]
    Used it in a few battles, so far it looks very promising. If it's not banned it could well usurp Aero's crown of best mega in UU. Great bulk and loads of resistances give it space to set up, while 110 base attack with high powered STABs let it do a lot of damage. Will it be broken? Hard to say at this point, but it'll certainly be very good. The 2 sets I've used so far:

    Altaria @ Altarianite
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Double-Edge / Return
    - Earthquake
    - Roost

    Pretty self explanatory, boost with Dragon Dance and KO as much as you can. I prefer Double Edge over Return, as it hits much harder - with Pixilate it has similar power to a STAB Head Smash. Earthquake hits the Steel, Poison and Fire-types that resist your STAB. Roost lets you stay healthy for longer. EVs simply maximise Speed and power, but there are different spreads you can run. An Adamant nature is viable too - you still outrun Weavile at +1, and you hit a bit harder to boot. If you want more bulk you could run 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spe with an Adamant nature - this lets you outrun Mega Beedrill at +2.

    Altaria @ Altarianite
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Return
    - Roost
    - Heal Bell / Substitute

    This set does need more support to function, but it's worth the effort. With only 3 types resisting Fairy and nothing being outright immune, it's a viable mono attacker. Dragon Dance fixes Altaria's low Speed and gives it the power to sweep. Return is the chosen STAB - nothing's immune to it, it has no drawbacks, and with Pixilate it's as strong as a STAB Close Combat. Roost keeps Altaria healthy, letting it set up on weak walls. The last slot is dedicated to status removal. Heal Bell cures your whole team; Substitute lets you avoid Leech Seed and has more PP. You could use Refresh as that has more PP than Heal Bell, but it only cures Altaria.
  11. Hikari

    Hikari
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    UU Leader

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    Both Pokemon do similar things, similar ways to play around both of them, and they affect the tier in a similar way. In most cases, those factors mean the Pokemon can complement each other and weaken their checks / counters, but in this particular case it's impossible to run both at the same time. and if you are somewhat prepared to deal with one, it's very likely you'll be able to deal with the other.

    Key word here is similar. The conditions for two Pokemon-suspect aren't absolutely perfect, but they are as good as it gets and there is a lot of stuff that needs to be addressed in the near future.

    We didn't do an actual vote this time, but the council thoroughly discussed and analyzed these drops to figure out what was the best way to handle them. In the end, Hogg and I decided to ban what seemed to be the three most troublesome Pokemon and properly suspect two of them, which realistically is the most conservative approach we could take to deal with the huge amount of metagame defining threats and Snake Draft starting next week.
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  12. Yoshizilla315

    Yoshizilla315

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    Hi everyone, I was asked to post here about the suspect test, as it really needs discussion, especially since if we choose to ban/not ban these Pokemon in particular, it could cause the tier to go on it's head. So, it's very important that we focus on what's at hands.

    [​IMG] Mega Gallade
    Now, Mega Gallade is a Pokemon I have yet to experiment with, but it's clear what this does on paper. After asking the UU room, I've discovered that the move set it's probably going to run is SD + Close Combat + Zen Headbutt + Ice Punch/Knock Off. Now, looking at it, this seems pretty good. if Gallade manages to set up before Latias gets it, it can definitely handle it. Also, it breaks through Steel types, as well as stall, even OHKOing Alomomla at +4. Even Scizor can't revenge kill this Pokemon, unless of course you use Close Combat and they are Choice Band Scizor, which even then is a 50% chance to OHKO. The point is, this Pokemon has bulk. 68/95/115 bulk is not bad at all, I would in fact call it pretty good for a fast and powerful Pokemon.

    Now, what Pokemon does Mega Gallade beat? Here's a nice list of calcs:

    Mega Gallade Calculations (open)

    +2 252 Atk Gallade-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 468-552 (166.5 - 196.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252 Atk Gallade-Mega Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias-Mega: 334-394 (110.9 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252 Atk Gallade-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Suicune: 319-376 (78.9 - 93%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 Atk Gallade-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Suicune: 319-376 (78.9 - 93%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 Atk Gallade-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Steelix-Mega: 446-528 (125.9 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252 Atk Gallade-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 408-482 (109 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252 Atk Gallade-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 357-421 (112.2 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    As you can see, this Pokemon is super powerful, but only have a Swords Dance is set up. The best way to get this done is to switch it in as a revenge killer, then set up when they switch out. You probably think Mega Gallade is insanely broken, but we haven't gone over the flaws yet. Let's take a look at some calcs against Mega Gallade.

    Calculations on Mega Gallade (open)

    252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade-Mega: 218-257 (78.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade-Mega: 184-217 (66.4 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gallade-Mega: 259-306 (93.5 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

    252 Atk Tough Claws Aerodactyl-Mega Wing Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gallade-Mega: 272-324 (98.1 - 116.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (lol)

    252 Atk Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gallade-Mega: 175-207 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Sceptile-Mega Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade-Mega: 225-265 (81.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    These calculations go to show just how bulky Mega Gallade is, even without HP investment. Remember how I said there were flaws? The only flaws are it's type weaknesses, being Fairy, Flying, and Ghost. Flying is the most common of the three, and Fairy and Ghost are very rare to see. This gives Mega Gallade little offensive counter play. So basically, I found that the only thing that resists Mega Gallade's STABs are Psychic types, which are going to be a lot more common soon. However, Jirachi is hit by Close Combat, and Latias is hit by Ice Punch.

    So, throughout my analysis, you found that Mega Gallade is incredible offensively, as well as being pretty good defensively. It's STABs are near unresisted, and the relevant Pokemon that do resist them are hit by Ice Punch, or their secondary typing causes the attack to be neutral. From this, you've probably found Mega Gallade has little counter play, and you're right. I literally suggest to you to run Rocky Helmet Defensive Arcanine to counter Mega Gallade. I hope, if you couldn't figure out if you wanted to ban/not ban this Pokemon, I hope you will now. If it seems I only focused on it's positives, that's because there aren't many flaws. So, because of this, personally I'm voting to ban Mega Gallade.

    What about Mega Heracross? I'd like to do an analysis on that later, as right now I have to build teams to ladder, as well as finish my summer reading lol. Until next time, though!
  13. Gaminshogun9105

    Gaminshogun9105

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    Another thing I'd like to mention is that Mega Gallade also has access to Drain Punch and Leaf Blade, giving it increased longevity and the ability to surprise bulky Water types, respectively. Leaf Blade ends up doing only slightly more damage against bulky Waters than Close Combat would, but it does have the ability to OHKO uninvested Primarina without a Swords Dance boost unless you get the lowest roll, which is the only move in its arsenal capable of accomplishing such a feat aside from Poison Jab which is a pretty low chance. Also, let's not forget that it has a surprisingly vast support movepool, with Toxic, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Magic Coat (cuz screw Klefki) and even Destiny Bond if you're expecting your demise and plan on taking something down with you. I do find that Mega Gallade does have another weakness in that he somewhat suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome, as he wants Ice Punch for Gliscor, Mandibuzz and Togekiss and to check Mega Altaria a bit more reliably but also Knock Off for the item removal and also to hit Starmie, plus the utility moves if you want to run them make you end up sacrificing coverage or Swords Dance, which tends to weaken Mega Gallade. Overall, however, with its immense power, great speed tier and access to so many options that it makes him somewhat difficult to predict, if I manage to make the reqs, I will be voting to ban Mega Gallade. I like you, pal, but you're just not healthy and too strong for the current meta with how many things you can take care of.
    RyanKoopa, casey90 and Yoshizilla315 like this.
  14. Yoshizilla315

    Yoshizilla315

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    Oh yeah thank you! I forgot to mention that Gallade has a Bulk Up set with Drain Punch! That's very good to take into consideration, I actually had it in mind while writing my analysis but I forgot to mention it. But yeah, I definitely should've gone over some of it's other sets, and the wider variety of counter play.
    Gaminshogun9105 likes this.
  15. Tony

    Tony :blobcheer:
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    Hikari's explanation is pretty much spot on, but I wanna add that handling changes that are this significant needs to be done quickly. There's different people from different timezones on the council and we aren't all online when decisions like these have to be made pretty much instantly, especially when the impact on the metagame is this extreme. I've said this on a previous occasion and I know the rest of the council agrees with me when I say that we absolutely value transparency from the council to the public. We will continue to show everyone our individual voting decisions when we all vote on certain 'mons, but in this case we decided to handle as fast as we could. If any future decision made by the council is ever unclear (or something of the sorts), you're always welcome to ask us for our in-depth thoughts in these threads as well. c:

    Other than that I'm very excited to see how things are going to shape up. I'm expecting some fireworks during the first few weeks of Snake, too! Heracross-Mega in particular seems a bit excessive to me for now, but these are first impressions. Keep the discussion going! ^_^
  16. bsu

    bsu
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    omg all these new drops ahhhhhhhhhhh
    some quick thoughts

    Gardevoir is sure to be broken if not like top tier as it can pretty much single handedly break stall
    252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 312-367 (43.6 - 51.4%)
    (also has taunt)

    Jirachi I thought was in BL but will also be broken if not just annoying af to face. so many different sets from scarf, support, special, mixed, lure, even z happy hour or whatever lmao.

    Nihilego is kinda meh but access to rocks and TSpikes is gr8 for an alternative suicide lead on HO

    Altaria as mentioned before will also be insanely good if not broken, scizor will keep it in check but against any team without a scizor (or weavile) it'll just run thru with DD

    Manectric puts raikou to shame in all aspects except for sub CM sets and i guess like fightinium Z which is a thing now??

    latias mega in theory sounds good but I feel like it'll be pressured to pull of bulky CM sets. it wants sub, roost, cm, and then what mono-attack does it run? or without sub its super susceptible to status which is obvs not good

    aurora veil cheese leaving is a godsend holy shit thank the lordt

    the two suspect fighting megas are also incredibly good, but mega aero checks them pretty hard. Hera in particular is so slow that it'll often be forced out, but it'll def get like at least one kill every game due to its insane bulk.

    exciting stuff with terrible timing as school starts!!! D:
    nv, Romanticist, Cheryl. and 4 others like this.
  17. Reviloja753

    Reviloja753

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    OK so I don't do UU. These drops might just change that. MegaGarde and Mega Altaria are amazing to see down here and I hope they get to stay. Don't ask me if they're broken cause idk. All that's clear to me is that Primarina might not last long here if MegaGarde sticks around
    Sam I Yam likes this.
  18. Yahooboo

    Yahooboo

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    Primarina has some good uses over Mega Garde:
    -It's not a mega
    -It has water typing, which is pretty good with the number of Scizors and Jirachis around that beat Mega Garde, although Rotom and Manectric become bigger problems

    These two are more than enough to keep it viable, since it can be run alongside something like Mega Mane or, if they come back to the tier, MHera and MGallade. Considering Scizor's and Jirachi's ubiquity, the Water typing is really important (although Rachi probably will run an electric move).

    It also gets Ice Beam, which Gardevoir doesn't, and that's a pretty good move, especially with Mega Latias around now.
    Reviloja753 likes this.
  19. GunGunJ

    GunGunJ El patrĂ³n del mal
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    I'm scared D:

    WTF are this monsters doing here. Mum help me.

    PD: We all know that at least 5 of them will be banned in the near future.
    CodeRed23 likes this.
  20. Gaminshogun9105

    Gaminshogun9105

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    Don't want to change the subject from Prima's viability with M. Garde in the tier, but I find that Jirachi would prefer running fire coverage over electric coverage due to Scizor's popularity. Also, Jirachi hits uninvested Prima pretty hard with Iron Head and surprisingly doesn't get OHKO'd by Specs Hydro Pump unless it switched into Spikes:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 262-310 (76.8 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 139-165 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Electric coverage would only really help against a majority of other Water types, but most of them aren't even 2HKO'd, with the only ones that can be 2HKO'd being Starmie, Mega Sharpedo (which even gets OHKO'd in base form but if you switch in on it then it sets up one Speed Boost and sweeps past Rachi) and Mantine. I'm not saying that Electric coverage is poor tech, but I doubt there's gonna be much reason to run it on Rachi. It's best to just pair it with an Electric type or a harder hitter with Electric coverage most of the time.
  21. ceal

    ceal

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    These new drops are super insane, poor UU's been bombarded all generation lmao. Most of them speak for themselves but I'll comment on the ones I feel are getting overshadowed by the fighting types in the room.

    Mega Manectric's incredible speed makes it a great revenge killer for the likes of Pidgeot, Scizor, etc. but its moderate power and having to decide to be walled by either Gliscor or Swampert (and always being walled by Hippo regardless) means it has some issues breaking through bulkier cores. It'll have its place, but I doubt its gonna be gamebreaking.

    Mega Latias would probably have been busted were it not for the drops that came with it. Altaria and Jirachi in particular pester it, whereas regular Lati could at least use Z-moves to muscle past em. Something I'd look out for regardless tho, something with that much bulk while only losing Z-moves is something I'd be cautious about.

    Rachi's well rounded stats and versatility in sets makes it incredibly dangerous just at preview. Scarf, Sp.def rocks, paraflinch, Z-Happy Hour, even calm mind variants could easily see a lot of success with its solid movepool and stats. Unsure about whether it'll be busted, as the tier's been pretty well prepared for offensive steels for a while now, but only time will tell if Rachi will push things over the edge.

    Rotom Wash probably won't see much discussion until the more obviously busted things get sorted out, but it's typing and bulk make it a solid defensive pivot, allowing it to check top threats like Sciz, Aero, Pidgeot, the newcomer Rachi, etc. whilst having a decently strong Hydro Pump to deter ground types that wanna block volt switch and willo to cripple physical attackers. I could even see offensive sets proiflirating in the meta as it has pretty solid coverage in its dual stabs alone, and what it can't hit, it can simply pivot out on. Probably the mon I'm most excited for once the tier settles down.

    Lastly, Nihilego has great stabs but is walled by steels and grounds, and can only choose a single hidden power to deal with either of them. I could see a Z-Thunder set used to lure in and beat a few steel types it normally wouldn't be able to (Aggron and Empoleon, mostly) but other than that it does nothing to alleviate most of the issues it already has. Cool suicide lead, but I'm not expecting the jelly to make a splash anytime soon.

    UU's shaping up to be wild these next few weeks, I don't think many of the drops will stick around but it'll be interesting to see which go sooner than others. Overall, I'm excited to be on UU's wild ride
    RyanKoopa and tenkai like this.
  22. coolio1223

    coolio1223

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    I believe mega latias is going to be absolutely busted if it runs a mixed defensive set with calm mind stored power. After 56 sp def evs even specs primarina can't ohko it if it is timid, and the 200 defence evs allow it to live even banded weavile's icicle crash. At +1 these mons are both 2hkoed by thunderbolt so the aren't really switch ins. Even a scarf moxie krook with a boost can't ohko it and an unboosted ice beam does 70% min. So this is going to pressure everything to keep a REALLY heavy hitter unused, ESPECIALLY if hazards are up. It's to the point where stall just won't be able to cope and even HO might have trouble after one calm mind. This mon is busted and NEEDS to go
  23. BPGXMG

    BPGXMG

    Joined:
    May 6, 2017
    Messages:
    399
    Both have Fairy STAB...
    And while it not being a mega is a plus, I still feel as though Primarina is going to drop off rather badly. It can't really deal with Scizor and Jirachi because it has terrible physical bulk and is super slow.
    Now, about the bans:
    I do believe that while the council did a good job in not pre-emptively banning everything, I still feel as though the two suspects in question should have just been kept banned, especially Gallade-Mega. It's not to the extent of Hoopa-Unbound, but it's still far too easy to tell that these two are broken. Gallade-Mega can break past literally anything this tier has to offer. Fighting/Psychic/Dark is unwalled in this meta sans bulky Psychic megas, of which we have 1 in Latias-Mega. In addition, Fighting/Psychic resists most common priority moves in Ice Shard, Mach Punch, and Bullet Punch. Revenge killers do exist, but when that's the only counterplay available aside from 1 mon, it's clearly broken and has no place in the meta. Ban Gallade-Mega
    As for Heracross-Mega: This thing breaks even more than Gallade does. While it's not the best vs offense with its low speed, its bulk manages to salvage it and make it decently useful nonetheless. As Hikari said, they do extremely similar things, and while Heracross doesn't have the speed nor as godly a STAB combination, extremely high BP moves (including coverage) and sheer bulk make it just as broken. Ban Heracross-Mega.
  24. Gaminshogun9105

    Gaminshogun9105

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Messages:
    30
    Just saying, Nihilego gets Grass Knot to hit hefty Ground types such as Hippowdon and Swampert, allowing it to run HP Fire in order to check Steel types (you'll likely get walled by Gliscor anyway but just thought it was something worth mentioning).

    Fighting/Psychic doesn't resist Ice Shard or Bullet Punch, just Mach Punch. This does mean that Weavile and Scizor can pick M. Gallade off if it's taken enough damage. Not saying that my point supports an unban, but it's something I wanted to point out.
    ceal and Zetasniper like this.
  25. Giratina93

    Giratina93

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    78
    Giving my two cents on a few of the recent drops...

    Megavoir: this thing is scary. Like, VERY scary. Not so much against offense, even if something's almost guaranteed to die if you switch poorly, but Stall... You better be packing Scizor or Doublade, or this thing is going to town. That said, Doublade does handle it well, but it doesn't enjoy taking too many hyper voices to the face.

    Mega Latias: It's ridiculously good in OU, but I think UU is a mixed bag for it. On the one hand, fairies aren't as ubiquitous so it can run dual STAB, and steels aren't AS common, but Dark is everywhere, and Pursuit all over the place is not something Latias likes. Gonna have to wait and see how this develops.

    Megallade: It's fast, it preys on all these dark types, almost nothing wants to switch in on it, and it's deceptively bulky and has sustain in Drain Punch. This is not staying for long.

    Megacross: In exchange for a worse matchup against Offense, slow teams and Stall just die to it, against unless you have Doublade. I'm on the fence with this thing, but leaning toward do not ban.

    Jirachi: Hmmm, flinch hax for days, my favorite. Not as broken as Gallade or Gardevoir, but I can see this being eyed in the future due to how annoying and not fun it is.

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