When I look at Chatot and/or play against it, its not that difficult a Mon to stop even if you don't have a counter. Its bulk is so mediocre and horrible even resisted attacks by your common walls can break its substitute. It doesn't take more than that to stop it from getting free sub's.
My main problem with it is chatter itself; its just not competitive in the way that you can use it to get free setup oppurtuinities, and depending on the chatot set, means the person facing chatot can't use any support moves or fear getting encored, and if said user hits himself a couple times in confusion and the opponent manages to get a couple nasty plots up, not much can eat up the hit as far as a pure resist is concerned, the only one that has a chance is probopass + soundproof users as per usual.
I've never really had a problem personally with chatot, by keeping offensive pressure on my opponent I rarely ever see it get any free turns, and if it does, its because chatter confusion hax. Overall, if we do ban something I would lean more so towards a ban to chatter not chatot especially since the specs set with boomburst and heat wave is hella fun and hardly broken in the slightest. This would have been a different case scenario if chatot was a better Mon but fortunately it isn't.
Counter Arguments:
-if Chatter is broken, ban chatot itself-> this isn't the case because quite clearly the biggest contributory factor to chatot being "broken/centralising" is chatter itself. If you take away chatter, chatot itself is distinctly average and lackluster. This was a similar case in gen 5 nu where the council decided to ban the combination of shell smash and baton pass (which only gorebyss at the time could do[maybe huntail idr]). People argued at the time that maybe gorebyss should be banned but in reality it was only really smashpass that made it overly concerning and "broken". Therefore imo if a move is a large contributory factor to making a Mon broken that move in particular should be banned and not the Mon itself.
- Chatot has counters, therefore it isn't broken:
This is probably the one I disagree with most. Chatot doesn't have a counter unless you refer to a soundproof Pokémon. If we are taking as that a reason why it isn't broken, look at serperior in the previous NU meta. It did jack shit vs the likes of sap sipper bouffe and miltank however, the very fact you HAD to run one of these mons in order to be " safe" from the savage, means that it centralises the meta to 3 mons. This has been used in the past to ban mons and still is, because if your forced to use one of 3 counters, it severely limits the meta and normally is tagged with "overcentralizing" which is what contrary seperior was dubbed with while it was NU.
-if you get lucky, chatot is seldom a problem: tbh this is also one of those annoying arguments as if you are unlucky chatot does what? 6-0 your team? Hardly fair, especially in a high intensity match one has oppurtuinity can win someone/lose someone a game through no play of their own. It consistently makes every turn a 50/50 in the regard where you don't even know if you can hit it. constantly making every turn a luck-based factor is a another reason why the bird should go.
- Chatot can be revenge killed easily by faster pokemon: this isn't the case, 91 base speed isn't great but its ENOUGH, to the point where it can come in against almost every wall in the tier that can't do much back, hit it with a chatter, force it to switch or confuse hax, get its own substitute up where nothing can really touch it directly (unless you want to do such via sound moves, but that really isn't something you want to do)
What chatot does that no other Mon can in this tier is its ability to get free damage on the opposing team, chatter damage + confusion hax damage wears down the bulk core of any team lacking the soundproofer and can support its teammates through the "hax" and confusion it brings to the table. At the moment there is almost 0 oppurtuinity cost to running it much like gen 5 swagpard where you can slap it on any team and no matter what it will be able to do some work.
I will support any ban to Chatter, however, banning the Mon itself I will consider to be over the top. As I said, if the main reason aon is broken is because of one move, that move should be banned, and not the Mon itself(see gen 5 smashpass argument)
