Metagame np: Stage 3 - 9(9) Problems

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Accelgor is also a very likely rise, so here goes a reliable Malamar check.
Abomasnow, Glalie, Camerupt and Emboar deserve mentions as wildcards which could go either way.

| 53 | Accelgor | 4.35252% | 7792 | 2.641% | 6882 | 2.889% |
| 57 | Abomasnow | 3.44904% | 11893 | 4.031% | 9487 | 3.982% |
| 58 | Glalie | 3.10308% | 8761 | 2.969% | 6894 | 2.894% |
| 59 | Camerupt | 3.08261% | 8969 | 3.040% | 7558 | 3.172% |
| 64 | Emboar | 2.41641% | 11473 | 3.888% | 8957 | 3.760% |

Boar's usage was very low in December, but the release of Reckless in January probably has caused a spike in usage big enough to prevent the drop.
 
So all these Mega Steelix's running around like they own the place, Seismitoad is here to show you who the real bulky ground is.


Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave / Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Offensive Seismitoad OHKOs offensive rocks Mega Steelix with Hydro Pump. The evs are meant to outspeed +nature base 55's such as Cacturne and Exeggutor, while having the hp at a life orb number to reduce the damage as much as possible. Sludge wave is to hit those base 55 grass types, but you can also use Toxic to cripple those hazard removers that wall Seismitoad such as Crogonal and Mantine. If you want a Stealth Rock user that isn't Mega Steelix and checks both Mega Steelix and Mega Camerupt (it also checks Mega Audino with Sludge Wave) I would suggest this Seismitoad set. Be aware tho that without spdef investment Seismitoad can't switch into full powered specs Eruption from Typhlosion.
 
So all these Mega Steelix's running around like they own the place, Seismitoad is here to show you who the real bulky ground is.


Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave / Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Offensive Seismitoad OHKOs offensive rocks Mega Steelix with Hydro Pump. The evs are meant to outspeed +nature base 55's such as Cacturne and Exeggutor, while having the hp at a life orb number to reduce the damage as much as possible. Sludge wave is to hit those base 55 grass types, but you can also use Toxic to cripple those hazard removers that wall Seismitoad such as Crogonal and Mantine. If you want a Stealth Rock user that isn't Mega Steelix and checks both Mega Steelix and Mega Camerupt (it also checks Mega Audino with Sludge Wave) I would suggest this Seismitoad set. Be aware tho that without spdef investment Seismitoad can't switch into full powered specs Eruption from Typhlosion.
Sludge Bomb is a nice middle ground between Toxic, foregoing 5BP and badly poisoning the enemy for a Sclad like chance to poison the enemy. Not too sure what else to think about that set right now -- will edit this post in a while.
 

Pokedots

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Sludge Bomb is a nice middle ground between Toxic, foregoing 5BP and badly poisoning the enemy for a Sclad like chance to poison the enemy. Not too sure what else to think about that set right now -- will edit this post in a while.
The main reason you'd use Sludge Wave over Sludge Bomb is because of Quilladin, as it is immune to the latter and generally walls Seismitoad. Quilladin's very rare, but you're not really sacrificing anything by running Bomb over Wave, so it's a fair trade-off. It also hits Mega Audino harder, though CroDino still beats you 1v1 unless it gets some terrible Sleep Talk rolls:

252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 182-216 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 174-205 (42.4 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 122-146 (29.7 - 35.6%) -- 22.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 117-138 (28.5 - 33.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
 
The main reason you'd use Sludge Wave over Sludge Bomb is because of Quilladin, as it is immune to the latter and generally walls Seismitoad. Quilladin's very rare, but you're not really sacrificing anything by running Bomb over Wave, so it's a fair trade-off. It also hits Mega Audino harder, though CroDino still beats you 1v1 unless it gets some terrible Sleep Talk rolls:

252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 182-216 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 174-205 (42.4 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 122-146 (29.7 - 35.6%) -- 22.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 117-138 (28.5 - 33.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
With SR Mega Audino is getting 2hkod regardless of the move if it switches in on a poison attack and doesn't have Rest or Special bulk making it switch or click a move before dieing.

Sludge Bomb's poison chance is very useful at times and like you said, Quilladin is rare any way.
 
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You can predict the future of the metagame all you want, but none of it matters because none of us can know for sure what would happen. It's equally likely that Fire-types would decrease massively in popularity if Typhlosion left the tier because none of them come close to it. Typhlosion sees so much usage because it's really easy to bring it in and kill shit--not because it's a Fire-type. In the same way, when Shiftry left NU, nothing "replaced it" as an offensive Grass-type because nothing could come close to how effective it was. Yes, Sceptile usage rose, but that doesn't mean that Sceptile suddenly became the top of the metagame. That doesn't mean you didn't have to prepare for offensive Grass-types; it's dumb to think that the top x-type Pokemon leaving means x type becomes irrelevant (barring Slurpuff because it was the only offensive Fairy-type we had).

So no, Typhlosion leaving NU wouldn't mean that NU would become filled with Pyroar and Magmortar. They'd at least go up a bit in viability, but they wouldn't necessarily become top-tier because they would still have the same problems they did with Typhlosion around. I don't understand why people think we need direct replacements for things when the metagame shifts and we lose things. You wouldn't just slap a Keldeo on a Greninja team in OU after its ban and expect the team to function roughly the same, and you wouldn't just slap a Pyroar on a team that had Typhlosion if Typhlosion left NU. Players adjust to the change in the metagame and use new teams.
I red it as Kecleon the first time since they both have Protean lol.

You're So Awesome
On a more serious note, yes Sludge Bomb does have very nice utility. The ability to cripple the recovery of checks and switch ins really aid in opening up holes in the enemy team.
 
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Quite Quiet

I need a kitchen knife that doesn't whisper to me
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Dropped:
Heliolisk moved from RU to NU
Quagsire moved from RU to NU
Virizion moved from RU to NU
Claydol moved from RU to NU
Mawile moved from RU to NU


Rose:
Accelgor moved from NU to RU
Glalie moved from NU to RU
Kabutops moved from NU to RU
So it looks like we got a lot to play with...

edit: missed Kabutops
 

Seismitoad @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Bomb / Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor

I'm not even going to sugar-coat it, this set is literally the greatest [credits to Soulgazer for innovating it]. I've been spamming lead Endeavor Seismitoad on my HO and Bulky Offense teams on the ladder for weeks now, and it's a really fun and yet consistent lead option. Not only does it dish out really solid damage, but with its high speed tier and great offensive typing for a SR user, it pretty much acts as a winning option against everything from MegaLix to MegaRupt to Rhydon to Qwilfish to Archeops. If they lead with something, so can you. Even if LeadChops Endeavors you, that gives you the opportunity to endeavor something else. It's also surprisingly powerful, especially with great STABs in Hydro Pump and Earth Power. It's just a really fun and surprisingly consistent lead option.
Pair with QD Endeavor Vivillon or Offensive Spikes Accelgor to WIN.
 

toshimelonhead

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Seismitoad @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Bomb / Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor

I'm not even going to sugar-coat it, this set is literally the greatest [credits to Soulgazer for innovating it]. I've been spamming lead Endeavor Seismitoad on my HO and Bulky Offense teams on the ladder for weeks now, and it's a really fun and yet consistent lead option. Not only does it dish out really solid damage, but with its high speed tier and great offensive typing for a SR user, it pretty much acts as a winning option against everything from MegaLix to MegaRupt to Rhydon to Qwilfish to Archeops. If they lead with something, so can you. Even if LeadChops Endeavors you, that gives you the opportunity to endeavor something else. It's also surprisingly powerful, especially with great STABs in Hydro Pump and Earth Power. It's just a really fun and surprisingly consistent lead option.
Pair with QD Endeavor Vivillon or Offensive Spikes Accelgor to WIN.
I was thinking this would be a good set to pair with Liepard because of Pursuit so that whoever gets Endeavored doesn't run away with 1 HP. Liepard can also provide other support options for an HO team, especially Rain Dance with Seismitoad.
 
I am genuinely looking forward to using some of these new toys!
I think virizion is going to be hella fun with ability to go mixed o: and rip gatr, so many checks and counters dropped to fuck it. Stall may be having an easier time with quag around though o.o Looks like this may bring some really fun mons!
 

Shuckleking87

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If we only got Stuntank but I guess I cannot complain with all the new toys.
Quagsire is a real interesting addition to the tier, basically countering mega-steelix, while looking like a nice glue to stall teams. Virizion is going to be really cool as it has a ton of versatility with mixed attacks and very good defenses (also provides somewhat of a scare for knock off users), and sits at a good speed tier to go scarfed. It is just barely slower than archeops which is a little annoying. Heliolisk looks like a good life orb attacker with it great coverage moves with surf grass knot and signal beam, and with scarf it would outspeed pretty much all scarfers in the tier. Mawile has a great movepool that it can easily place maybe more uncommon attacks to beat some usual counters. Im not sure if a special set can be viable with its low base special attack, but with sheer force and life orb, along with the wide variety of coverage move, it would be really funny. Claydol will probably fall off in my opinion, as it probably cannot afford to be both a stealth rocker and a spinner. With kabutops gone, it might be the best spinner in the tier, but it also has the disadvantage that it does not get reliable recovery like cryogonal. And I'd probably rather use uxie as a stealth rock setter than claydol, but we will see.
 
I would actually run HP flying Helio in this meta because it outpaces viriz by 1 base point which allows it to check SD viriz. It also hits any of the grass types hard anyways.
 
My opinion about the shifts:

Heliolisk moved from RU to NU - RIP Feraligatr, nice electric type, can break apart Mega Steelix and can screw up most water types in the tier.
Quagsire moved from RU to NU - RIP Feraligatr 2, I actually expected this dropping, it's nice for stall, and pretty nice balanced wall for who wants to stop sweepers.
Virizion moved from RU to NU - I think it has the potential to get suspected, it has decent attacking stats, amazing speed and access to boosting moves like Swords Dance and Calm mind, with offensive moves like Giga Drain, Leaf and Close Combat as well as coverage with Hidden Power Fire and Stone Edge.
Claydol moved from RU to NU - Welcome home :] and yeah, ask Hitmonchan to give us a visit in May!
Mawile moved from RU to NU - Mawile's thoughest challenge, will it be strong enough for NU? Or will it's journey end in PU? It has nice moves to abuse Sheer Force and it has a nice typing to abuse Intimidate, although defensively it might be outclassed by Granbull.

Accelgor moved from NU to RU - Really sad with this moving up, there goes a great spikes stacker, special attacker and check to Malamar, offensive teams will resort probably to Qwilfish to get spikes up.
Glalie moved from NU to RU - Not really caring about this guy, I didn't use it since it was PU and in NU, what could it do that Qwilfish couldn't as suicide lead?
Kabutops moved from NU to RU - Kinda sad for Rain teams, I was making one for the suspect test and had kabutops, dang, but outside of rain I won't see much difference, I always liked using Sandslash more as a spinner.

Also, something cool to know is that out of these 5 things that dropped, 2 of them can Check it can kinda check Mega Steelix, the upcoming suspect: Heliolisk can do a ton for even specially defensive sets with Life Orb/Expert Belt Surf and Focus Blast, having high chances of 2HKOing it, and Grass Knot can also make big damage. Quagsire can burn non-rest sets and Curse Quagsire gives Steelix some headaches. Claydol, Mawile and Virizion can't 2HKO it (Virizion can OHKO defensive sets with Focus Blast, but not sure if it will get much use), but they can all at least 3HKO it, Claydol does 30%-36% on defensive sets, 42%-50% on offensive sets with uninvested Earth Power, Mawile does 27%-32% on defensive sets, 37-44% on offensive sets with neutral natured uninvested Fire Blast, Virizion can do 41%-49% with Close Combat on sets without Defense EVs.

About Feraligatr, well, I think Samurott will start to get way more used in NU replacing Feraligatr thanks to Grass Knot, hitting Quagsire, making it way better against stall than Feraligatr.
 

Lord Alphose

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Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
So, how about that physically defensive Quagsire. I illustrate its beauty with an absurdly short but significant list of calcs:
4 Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 105-124 (26.6 - 31.4%) -- 24.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
16+ Atk Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+10000000000 4 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 65-77 (16.4 - 19.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 100-118 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Scald burns any physical attack that you don't want to deal with. Earthquake is used so that Quagsire can actually get some damage off. Recover allows it to deal with the piss-weak attackers that think they can try to handle this god, such as Malamar and Gatr(so weak.) And toxic is for seismitoad, mantine, and all those other weaklings that think they can stand in out Lord Quagsire's way.
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
WE GOT HELIOLISK??????????????????????????????????? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yo listen up here's a story
About a lizard guy that lives in a dry world
And all day and all night and everything he sees
Is just dry like him inside and outside
dry is his house with a dry little window
And a dry corvette
And everything is dry for him and himself
And everybody around
'Cause he ain't got nobody to listen to
I'm Dry da ba dee da ba die...

Just speculation, cause I haven't actually played with it yet, but I can't imagine the standard set will look much different than this:
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Volt Switch
- Surf
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power [Flying]

Also this: 252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Hidden Power Flying vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 244-291 (75.3 - 89.8%)

Alright, so this pokemon is basically my love and joy in RU, and next to Gastrodon, was the only "dream drop" I could imagine. I can't believe was actually fucking got it. OML. Welcome home.
For those that don't know, this lovely little guy just got Hyper Voice from ORAS, ao it's supporting
fantastic fucking dual STAB in Thunderbolt / Hyper Voice. Add into that the fact it can Volt Switch, has Surf for Mega-Lix, Focus Blast if you're feeling risky for some reason, and of course the option of HP Flying for Viriz as it just so happens to be Base 109 instead of 108. Oh did I mention Dry skin? Gatr can legit be B rank at this point, 3 nightmare pokemon for it were just introduced at once, lol. This straight up made my day, thank you RU for this blessed little gift on Feb 2nd. More on this guy later once I've calmed down, ohh myy goddd.
.
For a day that's supposed to be based around Groundhogs, who woulda thought a lizard would make me so happy?
 
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