Scrafty's bulk may look impressive due to it's defenses but it is deceptive because it has pitiful hp. It is downright sad how easy it is to wear down or just ohko because no one should invest much in it's bulk if they want it to pack any power. Other fighting types such as Machamp and Pangoro hit a lot harder from the get-go and don't need a setup to pose a threat. Scrafty isn't just outclassed, it just doesn't have the power to keep up in UU and should drop to RU if it wants to be relevant somewhere (and I'm not even that confident about it's position there).
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np: UU Stage 1 - Changes
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Ok we could all beat the dead horse and talk crap about BlameTruth and Scrafty and acknowledge the decent point that Cresselia is pretty underrated, its usage really doesn't show how reliable a fighting check it is.
Man, I really love having discussions on the internet. Everyone is so kind and respectful while stating their opinions.
Machamp is faster, but his speed is still pathetic. Scrafty sticks around and causes problems because, despite a not so great defensive typing, he's rolling with 65/115/115 Defensive stats. Invest in SpDef and after one Bulk Up he has 350+ in both his defenses. He's got some really nice abilities, his movepool is better than you give it credit for, and yes, I have used these sets. They work. Are they amazing S+ tier stuff? No, but they do their job. And you know what else? It's not boring stuff you see ever other battle on the ladder. Oh joy, I get to play a No Guard Machamp again? Wheee.
Who the hell is BlameTruth?!? O_o
On a better note. With cresselia, I really feel like the calm mind cress set is underrated. It creates more of a win con than suicune in my opinion. But what do people think of cro-cress?
imaloony boring stuff you see on the ladder? You're playing the wrong game brotha
On a better note. With cresselia, I really feel like the calm mind cress set is underrated. It creates more of a win con than suicune in my opinion. But what do people think of cro-cress?
imaloony boring stuff you see on the ladder? You're playing the wrong game brotha
He's a Youtuber; former CoD commentator, but he mostly does Pokemon and Hearthstone now. Despite the fact that most of Smogon doesn't like him for some reason, he mostly plays for fun than to try hard and he's pretty entertaining to watch. Even so, he's a pretty decent battler, since he's been playing since 4th-ish gen.
I like Sub-CM-Cress a lot, but I've never tried Cro-Cress. Probably because I have a special place of hate in my heart for CroCune, which has turned me off to the concept.
I will say that a Lucario will give some issues with Scrafty if it's not running Bulk Up, since it's got a sizable speed difference and will pretty much OHKO it under most circumstances. But overall, I think Scrafty is underrated.
Easy way to prove Scrafty's viability: get some replays against a decent opponent where it works well, and explain why another pokemon could not have succeeded in its place.
Flygon, on the other hand... While its offensive sets are mostly garbage, I do think its Defog set has a niche. Gligar outclasses it by a mile on most teams, but Flygon takes less damage from hazards than any non-Magic Guard pokemon in the game, and its typing lets a defensive set do a pretty good job of checking strong Fire attackers like Entei. Again, I'm not saying that you should start ditching Gligar or Crobat in favor of Flygon. But it DOES have a niche, albeit a small one. I can try to get replays later.
Flygon, on the other hand... While its offensive sets are mostly garbage, I do think its Defog set has a niche. Gligar outclasses it by a mile on most teams, but Flygon takes less damage from hazards than any non-Magic Guard pokemon in the game, and its typing lets a defensive set do a pretty good job of checking strong Fire attackers like Entei. Again, I'm not saying that you should start ditching Gligar or Crobat in favor of Flygon. But it DOES have a niche, albeit a small one. I can try to get replays later.
omg are we actually talking about this on an actual smogon forum of players that have actual skill,,,
blametruth isnt good at pokemon. he uses shitty sets where he capitalizes on people not expecting his off-brand label of shit teams, manages to choke out a couple wins, then continues to draddle on about how "~~~ is underrated" as if he even has any sort of educated say at the tier. And you say "Smogon hates him for some reason." Everybody knows that smogon hates him because he uses terrible sets, convinces masses of bandwagoners to use terrible sets, then proceeds to think he has any sort of knowledge as to what is actually good. Simply put, blametruth is a terrible teambuilder and player, and his terrible concoctions he calls "teams" shouldnt have any sort of acknowledgement by a smart player.
on to scrafty. Scrafty is a bad pokemon. It is just objectively outclassed by so many pokemon in the tier. The AV Set is horrendous, just horrendous, at what it does. Scrafty is piss fucking weak and it's only "recovery" is a base 75 move coming off of an unboosted attack stat, so unless you're hitting something Super-Effectively, you're getting almost no HP back. It's bulk is good, sure, but an AV set can't even capitalize on usable bulk with a good setup. It literally just takes a hit, has no leftovers, and proceeds to do almost nothing to any relatively bulky pokemon. AV Scrafty is entirely and objectively outclassed by AV Machamp, as Machamp has Priority, a strong STAB, and a STAB capable of confusion, if you feel like running DynamicPunch. Scrafty is even slower that Machamp, meaning Scrafty can't creep some premier bulky mons that it would like to, including Suicune and Gligar, which Machamp can.
tl;dr: BT sucks. Scrafty Sucks. Get good.
blametruth isnt good at pokemon. he uses shitty sets where he capitalizes on people not expecting his off-brand label of shit teams, manages to choke out a couple wins, then continues to draddle on about how "~~~ is underrated" as if he even has any sort of educated say at the tier. And you say "Smogon hates him for some reason." Everybody knows that smogon hates him because he uses terrible sets, convinces masses of bandwagoners to use terrible sets, then proceeds to think he has any sort of knowledge as to what is actually good. Simply put, blametruth is a terrible teambuilder and player, and his terrible concoctions he calls "teams" shouldnt have any sort of acknowledgement by a smart player.
on to scrafty. Scrafty is a bad pokemon. It is just objectively outclassed by so many pokemon in the tier. The AV Set is horrendous, just horrendous, at what it does. Scrafty is piss fucking weak and it's only "recovery" is a base 75 move coming off of an unboosted attack stat, so unless you're hitting something Super-Effectively, you're getting almost no HP back. It's bulk is good, sure, but an AV set can't even capitalize on usable bulk with a good setup. It literally just takes a hit, has no leftovers, and proceeds to do almost nothing to any relatively bulky pokemon. AV Scrafty is entirely and objectively outclassed by AV Machamp, as Machamp has Priority, a strong STAB, and a STAB capable of confusion, if you feel like running DynamicPunch. Scrafty is even slower that Machamp, meaning Scrafty can't creep some premier bulky mons that it would like to, including Suicune and Gligar, which Machamp can.
tl;dr: BT sucks. Scrafty Sucks. Get good.
252+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 159-187 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 105-124 (30.7 - 36.3%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 115-136 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
you sure are sustaining yourself fine for assault vest m8
(and these calcs arent even realistic because nearly most of them will have hp investment so they're taking even lesser damage)
252+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 105-124 (30.7 - 36.3%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 115-136 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
you sure are sustaining yourself fine for assault vest m8
(and these calcs arent even realistic because nearly most of them will have hp investment so they're taking even lesser damage)
With such charming people at every turn, I wonder why it is I don't post here more often?
BT manages to consistently make it into the top 200 on several different ladders when he puts effort in, so it's hard to call him anything worse than above average from an unbiased perspective. Also, yeah, he plays gimmicky sets, but he's also playing pokemon to have fun. Shocker, right?
Okay, so let's consent to something, shall we? No, Scrafty AV doesn't hit that hard. Like I said, he isn't supposed to. He can stick around for longer than Machamp to get off Knock Offs and Dragon Tails. That's why he's useful; he's bulky utility. Machamp AV is supposed to hit harder, but he has no recovery and as such won't stick around for as long. Again, calm yourself. It's a niche set.
You're also ignoring the other set I mentioned, which is the Rest/Bulk Up/Shed Skin. As I said, one Bulk Up and Scrafty is sitting at about 320 Att, 400 Def, 360 SpDef. That's a nasty threat, that is. "Oh but Scrafty gets destroyed by Fairy Types!" I hear you say. Yes, and it's a shame too, if only the game was designed in such a way that you could have teammates with which to cover the weaknesses of other teammates.
I'd get some games in with Scrafty and post the results, but I'm afraid after all this constructive discussions and respectful conversation, any evidence would just be excessive (Or ignored).
(Oh right, should probably leave this here:)
252+ Atk Scrafty Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 270-320 (79.1 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Scrafty can do a number on Scarfed 'Rachi, which, as I just said, is the bane of UU. Just saying)
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Ugh stop. As boltsandbombers and -Volbeatdown- just said above me, BT has no sort of credibility whatsoever because he runs terrible and gimmicky sets that are in fact unviable in any sort of metagame, and he uses crappy mons that don't deserve any sort of usage in the tier, slaps AV onto mons that aren't good users of it, etc. Saying that he has reached the top 200 on several ladders is a terrible reason to give him any sort of credibility because 1)Top 200 is frankly not that good, anyone can get that high on the ladder, and 2)The PS! Ladder is terrible to begin with.
And yes, AV Scrafty is in fact horrendous. It is piss weak, and the fact of the matter is this: If you don't have any sort of firepower off the bat, you're a bad AV user. And yeah Scrafty has Knock Off, Drain Punch, and Dragon Tail. Pangoro has Knock Off and Drain Punch too, and hits way harder. AV Machamp is bulkier and has way more firepower with DynamicPunch that confuses and is not easy to switch into, unlike Scrafty, and Machamp also has Guts which is nice to switch into the ever prominent Scald.
BU is not good in this gen anymore because it loses to Fairies, as well as all sorts of Fighting-types, and birds like Crobat (who can just Taunt), and Fletchinder, can all basically crush it, while Aromatisse and Florges can crush it any day. It used to be really cool in BW, but in this metagame, there are a ton of easy ways to destroy it because it's not all that bulky and has three incredibly exploitable weaknesses. Please, just use another bulky sweeper like CM+Synthesis Florges.
Yeah go ahead and get some games with Scrafty. But they will have no credibility if they are from the bottom of the ladder, and no matter how you put it, everything Scrafty does, it is incompetent at against a good player, and there are far more effective Pokemon in this meta like Machamp, Krookodile, Honchkrow, and Lucario.
Wow. I can't believe I, of all people, am the one saying these words.
Anyways please stop discussing BT and Scrafty and move on from this. You're not going to win this. Trust me.
Who said I wanted to win anything? I wanted to discuss Scrafty's validity, and people jumped down my throat.
Can I discuss Scrafty and not have people insult me? That is what this thread is for, correct? Just checking here.
Look, we've discussed Scrafty to death. Yes, Scrafty seems decent on paper, but there is a reason he's D rank. He just doesn't cut it compared to the other mons in UU. We don't care that you think it's good, because it's not. Now kindly, shut the hell up about Scrafty so this thread can talk about more relevant mons.
I object to that. Being placed in a low tier does not automatically make a pokemon unusable. There are pokemon in RU who can be used effectively in OU. Being that he's also, apparently, being considered to be dropped to RU, I enforce that he IS relevant to talk about now of all times.
I mean, how is it that something like Flygon can be C rank and Scrafty is considered to be dropped? Flygon is frail, weak, and has an even worse defensive typing, and is even less relevant than Scrafty because there are even more things that do its job better, but everyone is content to let him sit in UU.
And seriously, can we keep this civil? I'm trying to be as calm about this as possible, and being told to shut the hell up and to "Get Good" is not the most encouraging discussion I've ever seen.
look man i don't know if you are trying to troll or what but it has been explained why scrafty is unviable in several different posts above. also mons don't drop from uu to ru just because people want them to, they drop because of usage. flygon is ranked above scrafty because it is not directly outclassed by anything else, but it is still pretty bad. anyway let's drop this subject because it has been beaten to death already.
moving on, when is the vote for medichamite going to take place? it's obvious that that thing is broken af. also, has it been decided how drought/drizzle are going to be tested?
Flygon is more useful than Scafty anyway.
Flygon is an okay scarf , his job is to revenge kill , and he does it well. He is not very good , but he is viable. He has nice immunities and a cool movepool.
Yeah there are better scarfers in the tier like Mienshao , Hydreigon ,etc... But this mon have a really great move which is Defog. I used Flygon as Scarfer+Defogger on one of my offense teams , and he is doing well.
There is no reason to compare Flygon and Scrafty.
Flygon is an okay scarf , his job is to revenge kill , and he does it well. He is not very good , but he is viable. He has nice immunities and a cool movepool.
Yeah there are better scarfers in the tier like Mienshao , Hydreigon ,etc... But this mon have a really great move which is Defog. I used Flygon as Scarfer+Defogger on one of my offense teams , and he is doing well.
There is no reason to compare Flygon and Scrafty.
Well, that's where we've come to. I act polite and people think I'm trolling. Where am I, 4Chan? Whatever, this is clearly a waste of everyone's time, so I'll bow out and get the hell out of these forums before I have flashbacks the the League of Legends community.
This is absolutely disheartening, we wanna talk about potential drops and what would move up and how medichamite is broken and then there comes a gentleman talking about how scrafty is "viable" when is been proven 1,000*7 times that scrafty is a bad mon in the UU metagame. And then it mention one of the most horrible influences of competitive pokemon in the last years (BlameTruth) as a legitimate reason... Im sorry but the moment you mentioned it the opportunity you had to prove anything just went right down the toilet. A STAB Knock Off not killing a 0/0 rachi? Thats down right depressing...
Flygon has uses, scrafty isnt. I dont feel like repeating every other above posters had said. There is no reason to use scrafty unless it is your favorite pokemon or something (and that doesnt mean anything for its viability itself). Period. No point in discussing this any longer to be honest.
Now, regarding more important matters... can like medichamite go back to BL and jirachi like move the hell up or something? I wouldnt be complaining if 90% of people didnt just slapped a scarf rachi in every single team... I swear I have seen those like in every single team archetype :(
Flygon has uses, scrafty isnt. I dont feel like repeating every other above posters had said. There is no reason to use scrafty unless it is your favorite pokemon or something (and that doesnt mean anything for its viability itself). Period. No point in discussing this any longer to be honest.
Now, regarding more important matters... can like medichamite go back to BL and jirachi like move the hell up or something? I wouldnt be complaining if 90% of people didnt just slapped a scarf rachi in every single team... I swear I have seen those like in every single team archetype :(
Medichamite will go back to BL soon i think.
I can't wait till Jirachi moves up to OU. I think mons like Florges , Cresselia , Serperior will do better without Rachi on every teams.
tbh good riddance. posting here gives us the idea that you are open to criticism seeing as thats the entire fucking point of forums. forums are used so that you can bring something up, and people will tell you what they think, if youre wrong or right. dont come on to a public forum and preach a pokemon that blows if youre just going to call it a waste of time and bow out, disregarding any criticism and getting back onto BT's dick. sorry if im being harsh here, but you cant expect to post on a public forum and expect people to not criticize you, especially when youre defending something that has proven time and time again to be really bad.
shoutout to you for calling smogon 4chan, clearly youre very inexperienced in both.
Does anyone actually know what the next suspect test is gonna be? Shadow tag we only really have wobbuffet and gothirita that can use it and wobbuffet Needs it to be viable but gothirita just seems like it'll do what gothitelle does but not as good, Neither seem broken though. Drizzle I think would be too much for UU seeing as it pretty much has all the viable rain mons and swift swimmers are below UU, but not as many of the rain checks that OU has, like Rotom-W and Venusaur. We have chestnaught but i don't know what else really comes to mind in UU to reallt counter rain. Hippowdon gets rid of the rain, but just gets bopped by the water types anyway. Sun I think would be really interesting as the main reason I see it being unviable in OU is Heatran. But he's not in UU so I could see the play style thrive here. It still has its flaws in nine tails being the only drought user and it being SR weak, plus chlorophyll users are usually grass types, meaning they can't take advantage of weather boosted stabs like rain mons could. I see it being viable in UU, but not dominating.
I could be wrong cause I've just been lurking for a while, but I felt like posting my opinions on the next possible suspect tests since mega yoga instructor is getting BL'd.
I could be wrong cause I've just been lurking for a while, but I felt like posting my opinions on the next possible suspect tests since mega yoga instructor is getting BL'd.
Koko stated that Shadow Tag / Weather would be suspected just in council, not publicly. Shadow Tag doesn't really make an appearance on low ladder so there would be no point for that, and Drizzle/Drought would be broken and overcentralizing. We were supposed to have "council battles" to help with those but they didn't really kick off very well.
WTF are all these posts saying Scrafty is slower than Machamp? Seriously, I counted 3 or 4. >_<
Scrafty has base 58 speed. Machamp has base 55 speed
Personally Scrafty is one of my least favorite pokemon, but I would say it can be used decently in some situations. I have no love for the AV set, because of its low damage output means it is easily toxic-stalled, and outclassed by Pangoro who gets iron fist Drain punch.
However the bulk-up rest set can definitely be threatening against balanced and stall teams. Scrafty can be EVd to have a lot of special bulk and it can set up bulk ups against quite a lot of special attackers, such as Raikou, Nidos, roar-less Vaporeon, Celebi, Starmie, Hydreigon, etc. The opponent can't even try to burn or toxic it because Shed Skin rest deals with that easily. Drain punch heals a lot after 2 bulk ups, and pokemon that fail to 2HKO scrafty that aren't resistant to drain punch find that Scrafty loses almost no health as they dwindle down to nothing.
As far as I am aware, nothing does Bulk-up drain punch as well as Scrafty. Yes, it can be revenge-killed by Crobat and Mienshao if it has not acquired enough bulk-ups and yes fairy-types are very dangerous for it (but keep in mind there are only two common fairies- Aromatisse and Florges). This is why you have other teammates to handle these threats. With proper support, Scrafty can be a good win condition. It's not easy to use, but it is handy in some situations where you would rather have a pokemon that still breaks through walls but that could heal itself than something like Machamp or Pangoro that is worn down easily.
The dragon-dance set in my opinion is not too good, because it requires 3 dragon-dances to outspeed a lot of scarfers and by that time you are already worn down a lot. Of course, drain punch helps in keeping Scrafty at full health and making it hard to revenge kill, but then you miss out in the power of HJK.
I think you guys were unecessarily rude to iamloony. All (s)he did was present points to why (s)he think Scrafty is usable (aside from that Blametruth nonsense), and reply to some counterpoints with some other points. This has nothing to do with not taking criticism; after all one IS allowed to take criticism and disagree with it.
The "We already told you it's bad, so shut up already", and "I'm right your wrong" kind of posts are seriously annoying and do nothing to help Smogon.
Scrafty has base 58 speed. Machamp has base 55 speed
Personally Scrafty is one of my least favorite pokemon, but I would say it can be used decently in some situations. I have no love for the AV set, because of its low damage output means it is easily toxic-stalled, and outclassed by Pangoro who gets iron fist Drain punch.
However the bulk-up rest set can definitely be threatening against balanced and stall teams. Scrafty can be EVd to have a lot of special bulk and it can set up bulk ups against quite a lot of special attackers, such as Raikou, Nidos, roar-less Vaporeon, Celebi, Starmie, Hydreigon, etc. The opponent can't even try to burn or toxic it because Shed Skin rest deals with that easily. Drain punch heals a lot after 2 bulk ups, and pokemon that fail to 2HKO scrafty that aren't resistant to drain punch find that Scrafty loses almost no health as they dwindle down to nothing.
As far as I am aware, nothing does Bulk-up drain punch as well as Scrafty. Yes, it can be revenge-killed by Crobat and Mienshao if it has not acquired enough bulk-ups and yes fairy-types are very dangerous for it (but keep in mind there are only two common fairies- Aromatisse and Florges). This is why you have other teammates to handle these threats. With proper support, Scrafty can be a good win condition. It's not easy to use, but it is handy in some situations where you would rather have a pokemon that still breaks through walls but that could heal itself than something like Machamp or Pangoro that is worn down easily.
The dragon-dance set in my opinion is not too good, because it requires 3 dragon-dances to outspeed a lot of scarfers and by that time you are already worn down a lot. Of course, drain punch helps in keeping Scrafty at full health and making it hard to revenge kill, but then you miss out in the power of HJK.
I think you guys were unecessarily rude to iamloony. All (s)he did was present points to why (s)he think Scrafty is usable (aside from that Blametruth nonsense), and reply to some counterpoints with some other points. This has nothing to do with not taking criticism; after all one IS allowed to take criticism and disagree with it.
The "We already told you it's bad, so shut up already", and "I'm right your wrong" kind of posts are seriously annoying and do nothing to help Smogon.
Just gonna add something onto this that's really bothered me about this community since I've become apart of it, and that's the fact that everyone is too quick to jump down someone's throat for the crime of being inexperienced. Do you guys understand that having a whole group of more experienced users jump at the chance to tell a new user that they're wrong is intimidating and threatening as fuck when you're new? I mean the responses to imaloony's comments have included one sentence dismissals and responses that basically equate to "lol your suggestion sucks", why do we have to be so damn negative with these comments? Hell, I think that suggesting Scrafty is underrated is as wrong as the rest of you, but why the hell would we focus on that when there's better points to talk about with a newer user? Looking back at the posts I can see that imaloony also brought up that Cresselia was underrated which is a fairly good observation, its a really solid fighting check and wincon that's usage doesn't show how good it is, that deserves to be talked about far more than Scrafty. Yet the only comments regarding it just got swept away in the tide of BlameTruth hate and Scrafty bashing because the more experienced users who should be more responsible with their posts decided that it was easier to focus on imaloony's bad ideas rather than facilitating the good ideas. Its hard for me to be upset at imaloony for getting more aggressive with you as time went on because this thread's response to their suggestions was fucking terrible.
Honestly right now I can't help but agree with imaloony's belief that this forum is an unwelcoming place, because right here we have an inexperienced user asking about a subject that we honestly don't talk about that much and being met with hostility and dismissal. Who cares if Scrafty really doesn't deserve much conversation, the real problem here is that this forum almost never gets new posters because we're so aggressive towards them. Right here we had someone genuinely interested in joining the competitive discussion who made a solid attempt at working mons they wanted to talk about into the conversation, addressing points against them with points of their own, and being able to identify what minor things separate Scrafty and Machamp like speed tiers and the fact that Intimidate adds to Scrafty's bulk. I feel like a broken record, but I really don't know what else I can say to you guys except for the fact that you don't all need to gang up on new users because they don't make the best suggestions.
So on this note I'd like to ask that we just blacklist any talk about BlameTruth because similar to what talk of Florges and Darmanitan did to the OU Viability threads the mention of him just turned this thread to shit. Whenever he comes up the less experienced players will talk about him and hold him in a higher respect as a player than he deserves because he's entertaining and has a decent relationship with his fans and they think that makes him a good voice to listen to about the metagame, while the more experienced players say the same crap they say every time that guy comes up and the conversation goes nowhere because everything to say about BlameTruth has been said a thousand times. This thread is just absolutely gross right now and I wanna move on from it, can we just talk about Cresselia for like a post or two?
Exactly this. While I don't disagree with what they said about Scrafty/BT, Scrafty is pretty bad in UU, and often BT uses sets that are crap (Farfetch'd in FU, for example), you obviously used this condescending tone when speaking to imaloony, and I do agree that while Smogon tries to come off as welcoming with all the resources for new players (Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, SQSA, etc), when unexperienced players speak about bad/outclassed mons and the like, mods (and other people, it's not just mods who do this, but they often do it), instead of simply saying "Mon X is bad/outclassed for Y reason", they basically say "Mon X is horrible and your point sucks"
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