np: UU Suspect Test Round 1 - Sunny Days

[Gerard]

Bulky victini (max hp/max atk) survives +2 toxicroak sucker punch, just saying how awesome this is, and don't tell me nobody uses this, this is the TR victini, and it destroy everything, with Life Orb and the ability to swich moves making yourself faster by the attack this just tells you how much of a monster this is

 

[Random Pizzaman]

youll most likely have to let something die tho, then revenge kill

Not sure if you were responding to me, but Houndoom has Flash fire and can play the Pursuit/Sucker Punch game with Victini.

 

[SJCrew]

Don't discount that's a game you can also lose. And since it's Victini we're talking about, there's more at stake for you than the player.

 

[Gerard]

Also, who's stupid enough to spam v-create when a possible flash fire poke is on the "field", whit team preview it's easy to see what pokes you should be killing before spamming v-create, arcanine and houndoom being easily spootable you can take them out whit SR alone making them swich in and out, they will probably not like Fusion Bolt/U-turn after SR if predicted correctly, and Sucker Punch and Pursuit just for one poke (and the fact you loose a fair amount of coverage and become a fairly useless poke vs Victini-less teams (even sun teams)), and you can take them down with other teammates (many teams carry an earthquake user for oposed sun teams and fire foe's

 

[Diana]

If you see Houndoom/Arcanine on the other team you're probably using U-turn at that point in the battle anyway to keep momentum, and honestly Pursuit+Sucker Punch Houndoom isn't exactly a great set from what I've seen...

Anyway sun is incredible, though it feels like Victini is a large part of the reason it's quite this good. I'm sure we'll be getting rid of it anyway because V-Create in the sun is unbelievable but it's a pain.

Victreebel's the king of Grass-types in the sun, seriously. It can go mixed or purely special and beat so much. Sawsbuck is really good too but not up to Victreebel standards. Lilligant a little lower down but it still works.

Also I have no idea why I see people sacrifice Vulpix so quickly only to have something like Kingdra Rain Dance on the parade. Actually Rain Dance Kingdra is cool for anti-weather, although Kyurem destroys it outside of rain.

And one little MVP: Specially Defensive Escavalier. Does so much more than help against non-HP Fire Kyurem, as STAB Megahorns hurt most things.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Don't discount that's a game you can also lose. And since it's Victini we're talking about, there's more at stake for you than the player.

Of course, I actually started to type out a disclaimer like that but stopped. Still, on the occasions I used it, it worked pretty well since people are so spammy with V-create.
It's also fantastic against those stall Mews, and a pretty good ghost killer (still beats last gen's ghosts, and dusclops I guess). Pursuiting Vulpix is always easy at the start of the game.

 

[TLK]

I know Durant is good, but it's not good in this meta since chloropylled (to outspeed) Hp fire will take all of your health with nothing more than those crappy defenses (and you really need a turn to set the hone claws)

Yeah, I agree.

I think the good thing is that none of the Chloro sweepers can switch into Durant, I don't think (not sure how much Victreebel takes from LO X-Scissor).

Durant is pretty much the definition of a glass cannon. Good thing it's got a good typing though.

 

[Acritter]

You get an easy switch with Durant to set up Flash Fire, though. Switch to Arcanine or Houndoom and you get a boost and a powerful Pokemon in for free. Arcanine can even run Extremespeed, allowing you to circumvent Chlorophyll. Of course, when there isn't sun out Durant is very difficult to outspeed for any Pokemon.

 

[Choice Socks]

Crocune is really starting to annoy me... it's bulky as fuck and can dish out strong hits. Scald is even more annoying when it burns you, or when sleep talk happens to get scald which is annoying. Sure sleep talk may backfire, and water immunities wall it. but I thing it should be considered suspect. Maybe I'm in the small majority, but whatever

Roar/whirlwind, taunt, trick, haze...
Not suspect.

 

[Gerard]

Trick/Taunt is a must this gen since many pokes (chansey/suicune/dusclops/eviolite users/etc...) will really have their time tanking every thing you send, this is deffinetly not a bad ting since those are pretty good moves, you should have an answer of those treats if you want to win (way easier than with Victini and Kyurem since almost everything is 2HKO)

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Use Milotic with Haze. Crocune cant beat it.

EDIT: Ever.

 

[BurningMan]

Use Milotic with Haze. Crocune cant beat it.

EDIT: Ever.

Pressure PP Stalling, this way it could beat blissey and vaporeon last gen so i don't see why it wouldn't work now.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Except that pressue only works when you attack. Recover has 16 PP if necessary and Haze has 48. 48 freaking PP. Good luck stalling that down.

(Assuming set of Scald, Recover, Haze, Ice Beam/Toxic/other filler)

 

[Rolf]

I'm very much in favor of getting rid of Drought before we get rid of Victini. Although a 270 base power move is (very) powerful, it seriously is not that overwhelming without the extra 135(!) base power that sun provides. After Drought is gone, I can see sun acting a lot like rain did last gen UU. Powerful and it hurts, but very counterable (and probably still on the brink of being banned...). It's especially okay when you consider that there are a plethora of defensively-oriented Rock-types and quite a few Flash Fire mons in UU to take the unboosted V-Creates. It's when Victini permanently gets rid of its water weakness (underrated boost of sun imo) and can smash things with a 405 base power move that makes it absolutely ridiculous.

 

[BurningMan]

Except that pressue only works when you attack. Recover has 16 PP if necessary and Haze has 48. 48 freaking PP. Good luck stalling that down.

(Assuming set of Scald, Recover, Haze, Ice Beam/Toxic/other filler)

sleeping doesn't costs PP so you get 3 turns for one rest PP, calm mind also has 48 pp if i am right and sleep talk and scald have about the same pp as the filler moves.

 

[Benlisted]

I'm very much in favor of getting rid of Drought before we get rid of Victini. Although a 270 base power move is (very) powerful, it seriously is not that overwhelming without the extra 135(!) base power that sun provides. After Drought is gone, I can see sun acting a lot like rain did last gen UU. Powerful and it hurts, but very counterable (and probably still on the brink of being banned...). It's especially okay when you consider that there are a plethora of defensively-oriented Rock-types and quite a few Flash Fire mons in UU to take the unboosted V-Creates. It's when Victini permanently gets rid of its water weakness (underrated boost of sun imo) and can smash things with a 405 base power move that makes it absolutely ridiculous.

The bolded part is exactly why I feel Victini is the thing that needs to go, not Sun. If nothing else is as ridiculous or broken as Victini under Sun, then why does the weather need to go instead of the pokemon itself?

The case could be made that many other things are broken as well, but purely on the basis that Victini alone is only broken under Sun I see no reason to remove the entire weather as opposed to a single pokemon.

 

[Boarbaque]

I really hope that Drought + Chlorophyll doesn't experience the same ban as Drizzle + Swift Swim.

Many pokemon are actually useful because of this boost, but granted some of them that receive this boost were already useful in the first place.

I also don't think Drought should be banned in the slightest especially since its only in the form of Vulpix.

 

[Mishra]

For once, I agree with Benlisted, lol.

From OU, you all know how antiweather my feelings were. I feel there is less power in weather this gen, and lets be honest: Vulpix is almost a wasted slot. The only thing you can hope to do is get that 60% hypnosis off.

I honestly feel that Vicini is the true abuser. There is no real consistant sun user on each sun team I see. There are standard abuser that rotate between Lillipel, Sawsbuck, Victrebel, Charizard, ect. But the one poke (aside from Vulpix) you can expect to see is Vicini. I would rather see UU with a poke that has no buisness being in UU, than an ability that is doubtful whether its broken or not....

 

[MMF]

I wouldn't say doubtful. Unless you run a combination of Thick Fat Snorlax, Hitmontop or another weather its very hard to beat Sun IMO.

 

[UltiMario]

From OU, you all know how antiweather my feelings were. I feel there is less power in weather this gen, and lets be honest: Vulpix is almost a wasted slot. The only thing you can hope to do is get that 60% hypnosis off.

Have you seen the OU Metagame man? Ninetales in OU is just as much of a slot waster as Vulpix in UU.

 

[THATSAplusONE]

I really hope that Drought + Chlorophyll doesn't experience the same ban as Drizzle + Swift Swim.

Many pokemon are actually useful because of this boost, but granted some of them that receive this boost were already useful in the first place.

I also don't think Drought should be banned in the slightest especially since its only in the form of Vulpix.

Yeah. It's cool that some things could be useful because of drought. But i'm fed up with only playing against Drought teams. It makes the metagame too stale.

 

[Roosh]

Candidates IMO for bans would be:

Chansey
Victini
Kyurem
Vulpix
Heracross

 

[Mishra]

Have you seen the OU Metagame man? Ninetales in OU is just as much of a slot waster as Vulpix in UU.

Ninetales also has more speed, better special stats, and doesn't get OHKOed by random nuetral hits. The sun team I ran had vulpix running a sash so I could either go for a hypnosis or an overheat....

And also note, that sun is weaker than both sand and rain. The only reason it is getting a hoot in UU is because of the lack of both. Hail teams are rare, and are basically there to counter sun.

 

[Thorhammer]

Have you seen the OU Metagame man? Ninetales in OU is just as much of a slot waster as Vulpix in UU.

Ninetales can do little other than set up Drought. Vulpix can do nothing. It's certainly a notable difference, even though Ninetales is largely ineffective otherwise.

Candidates IMO for bans would be:

Chansey
Victini
Kyurem
Vulpix
Heracross

Evidence for Chansey and Heracross?

Also, reason why there would be any reason to ban both Vulpix and Victini, when Victini is not broken without Vulpix? Unless you just mean one of the two should be considered, but unless there's evidence of a Drought abuser other than Victini being problematic, there's little reason to look any further.

 

[Gerard]

I stopped saying that drought should be banned (it should) until victini goes so people can realize that charizard, sawsbuck, victrebeel and tangrowth, many other pokes like cresselia, fire pokes, ground and rock pokes, etc... is all it takes for drought teams to be unstopabble

PS: sand exists, but nothing already really good uses it (and hippo gets it's ass kicked by grass types)