np: UU Suspect Test Round 1 - Sunny Days

[Forte.EXE]

The lack of good fighting types in the meta also leads to chansey being really good. Heracross and hitmontop are the only strong ones, and even LO hitmontop can't OHKO chansey with Close Combat.

Well, Heracross doesn't give a crap about Toxic, especially Scarf Heraboss. ChestoRest Kingdra might also provide some problems for Chansey, since it'll just set up on everything it throws at it. Curse Snorlax with Rest or just Snorlax with Immunity (not sure why anyone would run Immunity, but hey) beats Chansey by just Cursing up in its face, Resting off Toxic, and Body Slamming the blob. Dugtrio traps it, Sigilyph sets up on its face, Aerodactyl can just break through it with the Stallbreaker Taunt + Roost set that's currently on site for Gen IV.

Personally, I think Chansey is a bit overrated in Gen V UU, but I can certainly understand where all the complaints are coming from. It's one of the, if not the, bulkiest wall in UU currently.

 

[SupremeDirt]

Suddenly I'm wondering whether I should check if it was Mishra who suggested Tyranitar should be banned in OU because it was good.

But I am too lazy.

If Chansey is broken in UU, then Ferrothorn is broken in OU.

 

[Heysup]

MVPs for me so far (in general order):

Milotic:

Haze / Scald / Dragon Pulse / Recover

This thing checks every "big" threat because of it's absurd defensive stats. It can easily counter any Kyurem except for Specs, and also outpaces any Non Scarf Victini and can KO it with Scald after it uses its V-Create. It doesn't get 2hKOed by Scarf Victini's V-Create.

Kyurem:

Draco Meteor / Ice Beam (Blizzard) / Focus Blast / Dragon Pulse (Outrage)
I actually really like Specs on this because it gets 5 switch ins even with Stealth Rock, and Specs Meteor does insane amounts of damage. Obviously Scarf works well, as does any hail set with Spammable Blizzard. I've seen a Hone Claws set too, but Milotic trashes it so i don't know how good it actually is.

Cobalion:

Swords Dance / Iron Head / Sacred Sword / Stone Edge (Taunt works too)

This thing makes a great counter for any Kyurem and makes a great late game sweeper with its great speed. Destroys most Sand teams, ironically, since Excadrill is not around to dominate it with Earthquake. Also destroys a lot of hail teams. Very versatile Pokemon, it completely fucked me the first time I saw it because I had no idea what it was ^_^.

Golurk:

Substitute / Earthquake / Focus Punch / Shadow Punch

I mean, it's ok. It beats Snorlax, especially CurseLax quite easily. It also doubles as a Spin Blocker which is crucial for most teams. If it gets a Sub up, something likely dies. Not much walls it.

Victini:

I mean it's pretty fucking hard to argue that this isn't an amazing mon with it's crazy V-Create.

 

[Gerard]

Hitmonlee, Gallade, and Cobalion say hi.

Chansey is a top-tier Pokemon, but unless it reaches the point where it's impossible to reasonably beat or force out, it's not broken. There doesn't seem to yet be any evidence of that, and even if there was, it won't hold any weight until the strategies are given time to develop. Right now, as far as I can tell, we're all just flinging shit against the wall and waiting to see what will work in this new tier; of course we're not going to have any idea what the best way to handle certain threats will be.

If we take other meta's as reference you have an idea, I know Po is a different metagame, but most of the same pokes are UU in both metas and the calcs serve just as well, if you take it as a reference you'll find out that a lot of the same things translades to this meta and so you can give yourself an idea of what's gonna be banned, i agree for example that for many treaths is early to decide (like how chansey was banned on PO but not here at least for now), but tuff lke sun and kyu are way overpowered and have even less conters (terakion and darmatian gone) and because it's harder to counter them, maybe chansey is not broken here, maybe azelf and mew aren't either, it's just a matter to wait how UU develops, but sun and Lyu have to go since they have clearly proven to be too much right now (it's hard enough to prepare for one broken thing, imagine preparing for 3, 4, or a whole broken team

PS: how does milotic take fusion bolt?

 

[Mishra]

Suddenly I'm wondering whether I should check if it was Mishra who suggested Tyranitar should be banned in OU because it was good.

But I am too lazy.

I wasn't against it, but I believe it was Shrang who thought of it as a suspect. And I just hate the weather environment there in general.

If Chansey is broken in UU, then Ferrothorn is broken in OU.

OU =/= UU. And even if it was, I think the other thread is starting to talk about suspecting ferrathorn, funny enough.

Hitmonlee, Gallade, and Cobalion say hi.

Coballion's move pool is horrendous. Hitmonlee is pretty much outclassed by hitmontop, unless there is a niche I'm missing, while Gallade is too slow (and the scarf gallade is better performed by heracross), and cant take a physical hit that well.

Chansey is a top-tier Pokemon, but unless it reaches the point where it's impossible to reasonably beat or force out, it's not broken. There doesn't seem to yet be any evidence of that, and even if there was, it won't hold any weight until the strategies are given time to develop. Right now, as far as I can tell, we're all just flinging shit against the wall and waiting to see what will work in this new tier; of course we're not going to have any idea what the best way to handle certain threats will be.

I am in no way pushing for an emergency ban, but I definitly think unless the meta becomes cruel to her, chansey does not belong in UU. That opinion may change though.

Well, Heracross doesn't give a crap about Toxic, especially Scarf Heraboss. ChestoRest Kingdra might also provide some problems for Chansey, since it'll just set up on everything it throws at it. Curse Snorlax with Rest or just Snorlax with Immunity (not sure why anyone would run Immunity, but hey) beats Chansey by just Cursing up in its face, Resting off Toxic, and Body Slamming the blob. Dugtrio traps it, Sigilyph sets up on its face, Aerodactyl can just break through it with the Stallbreaker Taunt + Roost set that's currently on site for Gen IV.

Heracross is a good type. That's why I said heracross or hitmontop. Kingdra's are pretty rare from what I've seen, but that would be an issue as well (although all the kingdra's ive seen either run lum with no rest, or Orb).

And Snorlax is obvious gtfo.

 

[Meru]

Just pushed my stall team into the top 5. Seems to be doing very successful. Roserade in particular I find to be much better than Deoxys-D just because she has better resistances and she can actually incapacitate spinners.

 

[Gerard]

want to ask:
how do you deal with claw shapen/dragon tail kyu, i'm trying to do a stall team since it worked awesomely in PO (and yeah, Deo D is worst than Rose, i found the hype to be really unreasonable since it's great, but he has low HP, altough he can put Hazzards he's taunt bait and dusclops is a better mach to chansey)

 

[Thorhammer]

If Deoxys-D winds up in NU because of that, it will be the most hilarious thing to ever happen in Pokemon.

 

[Thorhammer]

Deoxys-D has enough of a niche to avoid being NU in my opinion. It won't be banned if there is any justice.

That does seem likely.

All the same, it's already calling its treatment in Gen 3 and Gen 4 into serious question, and that would just further it.

 

[SupremeDirt]

I always held in Gen 4 that Deoxys-D should be given a chance in OU.

 

[phoenixwright7]

So... Is there anything that can safely switch into Victini in the sun that works on stall?

I can't really think of anything right now, but I could be missing something really obvious...

 

[Forte.EXE]

So... Is there anything that can safely switch into Victini in the sun that works on stall?

I can't really think of anything right now, but I could be missing something really obvious...

Bulky Defensive Slowbro, possibly Milotic, CroCune. Bulky Water-types, basically, but those all get fucked by Tangrowth and Sawsbuck.

 

[Gerard]

Suicune and slowbro, altough you're better letting something die, i know, it's ridiculous

 

[Mishra]

V-Create is a 3hKO on standard scarfed adamant vicini, but on the rare choice band v-create:

252 atk choice band Vicini V-Create vs Bulky slowbro: 51.78-60.91%, a clean 2HKO against slowbro in the sun, after rocks

Against Suicune: 252 atk choice scarf Vicini V-Create vs Bulky Suicune (252, 252 Bold: 50.94-58.18) after rocks. This about a 2-3HKO, but I am not sure the exact odds of a 2HKO vs a 3HKO.

This thing just demolishes things. =)

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Except that Slowbro has the ability to nicely switch out and then paralyze/poison whatefver you bring in for your -2 Victini.

 

[phoenixwright7]

Bulky Defensive Slowbro, possibly Milotic, CroCune. Bulky Water-types, basically, but those all get fucked by Tangrowth and Sawsbuck.

I actually thought 'bout 'Cune some time after I posted... Eh... Thinking 'bout my team, I dunno how well any of them would fit on my team. Slowbro would probably work the best against Victini since it heals when ever it switches so getting maimed isn't quite as worrisome, but... Ugh, the thing's a monster <_< I may have to try some of those later... I'm trying to replace Deoxys-D by the way.

Am the only one that thinks it's pretty sad that a 'mon with defense more or less in it's name can't take a hit off of the thing?

 

[Honko]

Except that Slowbro has the ability to nicely switch out and then paralyze/poison whatefver you bring in for your -2 Victini.

V-Create lowers Def/SpD/Spe, not Atk. The second hit will be just as powerful as the first.

 

[smashlloyd20]

Honestly, Victini's power is truly ridiculous. Iirc EVERYTHING in UU that doesn't 4x resist it (or immune) is 2HKOd by a Sun CB V-Gen. Yes, this includes single resists. Thank god it's going to be OU next month.

 

[Gerard]

Victini without the sun is 3HKO in slowbro, 2HKO if banded, sun is what breaking him, it's not hard to see how it's making stuff that could be average in ovepowered bastards

 

[Meru]

want to ask:
how do you deal with claw shapen/dragon tail kyu, i'm trying to do a stall team since it worked awesomely in PO (and yeah, Deo D is worst than Rose, i found the hype to be really unreasonable since it's great, but he has low HP, altough he can put Hazzards he's taunt bait and dusclops is a better mach to chansey)

Hitmontop. The hardest part though is knowing that it's a Claw Sharpen set. Usually I can get Toxic Spikes or SR up early which helps to beat him but Kyurem can be a nightmare to predict around sometimes.

 

[phoenixwright7]

Victini without the sun is 3HKO in slowbro, 2HKO if banded, sun is what breaking him, it's not hard to see how it's making stuff that could be average in ovepowered bastards

Eh... I don't think it's sun that breaks him. As you just pointed out, Banded Victini hurts like hell either way. Sun just doesn't help the problem... What really hurts is the fact that Victini can probably stay in on what ever he hits 'cause it's probably to slow to heal off the damage before getting hit again... Which is why I'm not to sure that those bulky waters will help me any here -_-

Basically, I'm pretty sure that Victini would be broken even without sun. Really would have liked if V-gen lowered attack instead of speed <_<

 

[Forsety]

I think I can safely say I'm more certain with my early opinions now than ever before there are some obvious upsets at the moment.

Victini/Vulpix-
There is absolutely no question Victini is broken, but its also easy to tell its the Sun and Drought that pushes it over the edge. A normal non-sun Victini is much easier to deal with and actually somewhat reasonable but top tier stuff instead of insta-victory.

Way I see it with Victini is that its a likely suspect but Vulpix isn't innocent either. Sun itself is a debate in itself for another day but its definitely up for discussion when you have Growth Tangrowth or Victreebel running about.


Gorebyss/Huntail-
Smashpass is lethal and game ending but I'm of more opinion the reason its so terrifying is because of the end users and NOT these two themselves. They're quite frankly predictable as hell, if they're greedy and try Barrier/Amnesia too they get cut down.

If they run a standard BP set of Surf/BP/SS/Sub they're easy to come in to and can eat a faceful of Haze. There are other highly effective ways of dealing with them I won't elaborate on however but they do exist. I mean come on, Venomoth and Mew are far more god awful then these two being able to get a Sleep/Status off and sweep sometimes.

Someone has mentioned BP is harder because of a lack of good sweepers to pass to, its a lie. Fact is UU is new, unstable and plenty of would be OU's have seeped in waiting for BL. Theres plenty to abuse this and its why Smashpass seems broken.


Kyurem-
Forget hail, forget Abomasnow none of those things are the problem. Kyurem has ABSOLUTELY no place in UU and is about the only thing above Victini I would call a quickban on. The thing is absurd, bad typing means absolutely shit all when the thing so obviously overpowers absolutely everything with raw brute sheer stats.

This thing alone makes it almost pointless to run any other Ice abuser because it is the end all to them. Come on guys I thought we already learnt what happens when you let a bulky, fast and powerful dragon rampage in Gen 4 and they never change from this. You don't even need frickin Hail.

Remember how I just said I'm of opinion Smashpass isn't inherently broken it is the receivers? Yeah.


Mew-
I'm of opinion I've seen no good users of it yet because I've seen multiple ones which could've put me away but didn't. But the few decent ones have been MvP's easily it is definitely something right up there for suspects. But quite frankly compared to Kyurem hes nothing in terms of GTFO scale.

 

[phoenixwright7]

I actually haven't seen any Gorebyss/Huntail... At least, I don't remember seeing any...

I've seen one or two Mew and I think they gave me some trouble, but I can't remember.

Outside of Victini, the pokémon that have given me the most trouble are Kyurem, Zapdos, and the 1 or two times that I saw it, Wobbuffett. Of those, Kyurem is obviously stupidly powerful, Though I'd say that Victini is more of a threat right now, Zapdos is really annoying but fairly easy to wall with Chansey and stuff, and why the hell ain't Wob in OU? Like, seriously... I used him a few times in OU an' other then the few times that I got hax'd by something stupid like Ice Fang, he did his job; power creep or no power creep.

 

[Nubagator]

Quick banning seems really unreasonable at this point. We're 2 days into uu, and people are freaking ban happy already. Reminds me a ton of ou when quite a few people were crying out for the banning of excadrill "he's broken!" While some feel it's the same in uu. Kyurem giving you trouble? Try it's greatest counter: Stealth rocks. Just use the debatablly best move in the game. But if your looking for pokemon to counter/check it give specially defensive empoleon a try. Yes you can show calcs of focus blast OHKOing, but most kyurem will be choiced, and focus blast is a very shaky move to get locked in on with loads of psychics, and ghosts running about. Add a Deo-D to your emp if you want, then you'll be able to set hazards and wear down kyurem. Chansey is jusr no. As much as i hate it, it's not broken. In fact i don't think anything aside from victini in sun is broken. And with moderate luck he'll be OU in a month.

 

[Avira]

So... Is there anything that can safely switch into Victini in the sun that works on stall?

I can't really think of anything right now, but I could be missing something really obvious...

Along with those already mentioned, there's Omastar, who double resists Fire and has utility with it being able to lay down any of the three hazards that you choose.