np: XY UU Stage 0 - I Lived

[Shiny Minun]

I dont know how to feel about the suggestion to ban knock off. Its a really spammable move but so is scald and stealth rocks, did they ever get banned? No.

The major difference being that you can undo the burn from scald with a cleric or switch into pokemon that don't care about a burn (magic guard, storm drain, water absorb, things that don't rely on staying alive indefinitely or physical attack). Stealth rock can be countered (Magic bounce). Canceled (rapid spin/defog) and does not do damage. Giving certain pokemon a free switch in, contrary to switching into knock off, taking large damage and getting grippled

I'm also varly certain that without the boost (and say about 80 BP) if knock off only had a 30% chance to knock your item off (comparing it to scalds burn) and had immunities, we wouldn't have much problems dealing with it

Major difference being, if my special sweeper is keldeo, he wouldn't mind switching into scald and potentially getting burned, it does not make him any worse at sweeping, since hes a special attacker. Contrary to Knock off, where the power is high enough and the distribution is wide enough to where the only things capable of tanking the high power STAB knock offs are full fledged tanks, and most are reliant on their item to stay in the game as long as they need to be. Even if I bring an attacker in that resists it, losing potentially my scarf, band or life orb is going to leave me a bit gimped, because not either my damage is lower or I'm not fast/strong enough to deal with the threats I'm designed to take out.

To summarize the main difference between scald and stealth rock and knock off is knock off's ability to negatively effect essentially every competitive pokemon in the tier with little to do to reverse or prevent such effects. With the few counters being either not tanky enough to deal with the sheer damage or just a wall with no means to counter attack effectively.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Justified? Of the three at-all viable ones, 1. Why are you using Virizion? 2. Cobalion? 3. I concede pre-Mega'd Absol, but after Megaing it doesn't like to take them, and the common users of Knock Off can 2HKO Absol(Crawdaunt, Mienshao, Heracross, Ambipom, Krookodile). Virizion was not at all nerfed. It's just we got Chesnaught, who gets Spikes, Spiky Shield, Bulletproof, and everything Virizion has. Cobalion would be better if Crawdaunt/Absol didn't use Superpower and Bisharp was UU. I would like to point out, until you can show me one Pokemon that counters 2/3 or more of the Knock Off users, then please do not try to argue that removing an item with 97.5(185 for Crawdaunt) or 65(ONLY IF THEIR ITEM IS MISSING; 130 for Crawdaunt) BP is not broken. List of Knock Off users(may be updated):
Krookodile, Heracross, (Mega)Absol, Crawdaunt, (Currently Banned) Weavile, Ambipom, Machamp, and Empoleon.

Virizion is a pretty solid wall breaker. IDK what you're talking about as the ONLY common wall it doesn't have STAB SE damage against is Florges.

 

[Arkian]

Nidoking is such an excellent Pokemon in today's metagame. Stall teams with Mega Aggron + Florges cores are extremely common, and Nidoking just shits on both of them. Its mix of excellent coverage and power makes it a threat to any team. It does face trouble from more offensively oriented teams though, as its Speed isn't the best and its bulk is subpar, but Heracross and Meinshao have been increasing in popularity as of late, and Nidoking makes for an excellent check to both of them. It also deals with Mega Manecric and Mega Houndoom very well, as they can't OHKO it without a boost while it can easily OHKO back with Earth Power. Nidoqueen is a better Pokemon if you want an offensive Stealth Rock setter or tank, since it can stomach crucial moves like Darm's Flare Blitz and Crawdaunt's Aqua Jet, but Nidoking is much better for tearing apart defensive cores and many common stall Pokemon.

Another Pokemon that I have been liking is Kingdra. After it sets up a Focus Energy, it becomes a complete monster. It actually 2HKOes Chansey after Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes, meaning it isn't a safe switch in at all if hazards are up. Furthermore, Kingdra's Speed tier and bulk aren't too bad for the current metagame, and it can even stomach hits like 252 Latias's Dragon Pulse granted hazards aren't up. It isn't too easy to use though, since it has trouble setting up and is easily forced out, but alongside Sticky Web support, it is a complete monster.

 

[EonX]

Nidoking is pretty much the reason I use Vaporeon to WishPass to Mega Aggron instead of Florges. Considering Vaporeon can actually take a Sludge Wave + Thunderbolt reliably and retaliate with Scald without dying is something worthwhile. Physical Nidoking sets are a good bit trickier though, but Latias can generally handle it regardless of whether Mega Aggron or Vaporeon happens to be in if I find out that it's physical (immune to EQ/EP and resists TPunch/TBolt) Also note that Vaporeon gets Heal Bell, so it can fill in for Florges on stall teams if you're really struggling with Nidoking and still need something with decent synergy with Mega Aggron.

What do you guys think of Entei? It got a couple of really cool toys in Sacred Fire and Assault Vest this generation. Thanks to not having to rely on Flare Blitz, Entei can actually put its decent bulk to good use with an AV set while the CB set can stick around longer thanks to Defog, the ability to use Sacred Fire, and no need to use Flare Blitz.

 

[Kingpoleon]

Virizion is a pretty solid wall breaker. IDK what you're talking about as the ONLY common wall it doesn't have STAB SE damage against is Florges.

Specially Defensive Latias, Celebi, Zapdos, Cofagrigus, Shuckle, Chesnaught, Rotom-Heat, Hitmontop(do I need to continue?) all laugh at Virizion, with the first four you can hit with: HP Ice(lol), Stone Miss(which Zapdos doesn't mind too much), and HP Dark/Ghost(rofl if you use this). Please explain yourself.


Anyway, EonX- : Ice Punch Nidoking(if it gets it), but yeah. Physical Nidoking is rare.

 

[VanGru]

The major difference being that you can undo the burn from scald with a cleric or switch into pokemon that don't care about a burn (magic guard, storm drain, water absorb, things that don't rely on staying alive indefinitely or physical attack). Stealth rock can be countered (Magic bounce). Canceled (rapid spin/defog) and does not do damage. Giving certain pokemon a free switch in, contrary to switching into knock off, taking large damage and getting grippled

I'm also varly certain that without the boost (and say about 80 BP) if knock off only had a 30% chance to knock your item off (comparing it to scalds burn) and had immunities, we wouldn't have much problems dealing with it

Major difference being, if my special sweeper is keldeo, he wouldn't mind switching into scald and potentially getting burned, it does not make him any worse at sweeping, since hes a special attacker. Contrary to Knock off, where the power is high enough and the distribution is wide enough to where the only things capable of tanking the high power STAB knock offs are full fledged tanks, and most are reliant on their item to stay in the game as long as they need to be. Even if I bring an attacker in that resists it, losing potentially my scarf, band or life orb is going to leave me a bit gimped, because not either my damage is lower or I'm not fast/strong enough to deal with the threats I'm designed to take out.

To summarize the main difference between scald and stealth rock and knock off is knock off's ability to negatively effect essentially every competitive pokemon in the tier with little to do to reverse or prevent such effects. With the few counters being either not tanky enough to deal with the sheer damage or just a wall with no means to counter attack effectively.

I can see that, IMO the distribution on knock off is beyond ridiculous, which I forgot at the time I posted the comment.

 

[Sound]

What do you guys think of Entei? It got a couple of really cool toys in Sacred Fire and Assault Vest this generation. Thanks to not having to rely on Flare Blitz, Entei can actually put its decent bulk to good use with an AV set while the CB set can stick around longer thanks to Defog, the ability to use Sacred Fire, and no need to use Flare Blitz.

I just tried out CB Entei today, and I LOVED it. I thought 115 Atk would be too weak, but it's awesome. Not only does Sacred Fire hit and hurt a ton, it also has the awesomely clutch E-speed in the back pocket. Just says lolno in the late game. Probably my favorite part is the fact that it pulls its weight regardless of whether the opponent is using Stall or Offense. It's definitely worth giving a try, to anyone who hasn't already.

Another thing I'm liking is Toxicroak. I've been using SD/Gunk/Drain/Sucker with max HP/Atk (thinking of speed creeping 4 spd base 100s, y/n?), it works wonders. It's bulk isn't too good, but it has useful resistances/immunity which provide set up opportunities on the likes of Keldeo, usually Heracross, Empoleon, etc. Gunk Shot is actually more useful than I expected, it out damages a SE Sucker Punch. Speaking of Sucker Punch, kills so much stuff expecting to revenge you, such as Victini, Chandel, etc. It really sucks that it has some poor matchups versus some of the best threats (Hawlucha, M-Doom, Hydrei, particularly Slowbro), but I still find it to be a pretty solid 'mon.

 

[atomicllamas]

Justified? Of the three at-all viable ones, 1. Why are you using Virizion? 2. Cobalion? 3. I concede pre-Mega'd Absol, but after Megaing it doesn't like to take them, and the common users of Knock Off can 2HKO Absol(Crawdaunt, Mienshao, Heracross, Ambipom, Krookodile). Virizion was not at all nerfed. It's just we got Chesnaught, who gets Spikes, Spiky Shield, Bulletproof, and everything Virizion has. Cobalion would be better if Crawdaunt/Absol didn't use Superpower and Bisharp was UU. I would like to point out, until you can show me one Pokemon that counters 2/3 or more of the Knock Off users, then please do not try to argue that removing an item with 97.5(185 for Crawdaunt) or 65(ONLY IF THEIR ITEM IS MISSING; 130 for Crawdaunt) BP is not broken. List of Knock Off users(may be updated):
Krookodile, Heracross, (Mega)Absol, Crawdaunt, (Currently Banned) Weavile, Ambipom, Machamp, and Empoleon.

Replying to this cause I didn't see it till now, Virizion and Cobalion are both B rank or higher in the UU viability ranking system, so I assume people use them because they have a legitimate niche in UU (Cobalion as a defensive support mon, or as a SD sweeper, and Virizion as a SD sweeper or a CM Sweeper). I agree switching in on some of these pokemon can be quite challenging with the justified mons, but I was simply pointing out an interesting way to benefit from knock off spam in the tier.

Comparing Virizion to Chestnaught is like comparing apples and oranges soup and potato chips, aside from typing, these are two of the most different pokemon available. Virizion is a high speed set up sweeper capable of hitting from either side of the spectrum (with good SpD) while Chestnaught is a physically defensive support mon that focuses on setting up entry hazards and wearing down the opponents with passive damage. While I wouldn't necessarily run them on the same team for synergy reasons, they actually don't compete for the same slot at all.

As for your list if you successfully switch into knock off, you beat Krook, Crawdaunt, Machamp, and Empoleon with Virizion, Ampibom is a horrible pokemon, Weaville is currently banned so its a moot point, and mega Absol shouldn't run knock off because it loses Pay Rough. Assuming the same of Cobalion, you beat Krook, comes down to rolls on Mega Absol, Crawdaunt, Weavile, Ambipom, and Empoleon. Obviously you won't always predict right, but neither will you opponent, and you're looking at this completely wrong anyways. I never make a team looking to have a response to every usage of a move, I make a team that looks to beat all of the top threats, so even though there may be no universal response to Knock Off, I'm not convinced that a 97.5 bp move (for one turn only) is broken just because it also removes an item. It is definitely a really good move though that definitely makes it's abusers more powerful, and it should probably be looked into.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Specially Defensive Latias, Celebi, Zapdos, Cofagrigus, Shuckle, Chesnaught, Rotom-Heat, Hitmontop(do I need to continue?) all laugh at Virizion, with the first four you can hit with: HP Ice(lol), Stone Miss(which Zapdos doesn't mind too much), and HP Dark/Ghost(rofl if you use this). Please explain yourself.


Anyway, EonX- : Ice Punch Nidoking(if it gets it), but yeah. Physical Nidoking is rare.

First of all, everyone know's at this point with Knock off running rampant that the physical Virizon SD+Lum berry set is the most effective ATM.

Anyways, Chesnaught is really the only pokemon that can completely handle Virizion. At +2(It is surprisingly easy to set up SD in the current meta with all the walls you can sub in on), Celebi and Latias won't be enjoying taking a stone edge and with SR, Zapdos and Rotom-Heat are 1HKO'd. Shuckle can take any hit but that's all it does and it's most viable set actually benefits Virizion because it only uses knock-off as an attacking move which gives Virizion a boost. Hitmontop is tanky enough to survive a hit but can't 1HKO back unless Virizion has CC'd. Same thing with Cofagrigus. Overall, Virizion really only has 2 maybe 3 defensive stops to it. Additionally the walls it does break through happen to be: Chansey, Umbreon, Vapoeron, Slowbro, Suicune(Lum stop's scald burn), Snorlax, Jellicent, Hippo, porygon 2 and any other bulky water, ground, and normal type. In addition, it doesn't fear any of the S rank pokemon besides scarf Mienshao and Hawlucha after unburden.

 

[silenced]

First of all, everyone know's at this point with Knock off running rampant that the physical Virizon SD+Lum berry set is the most effective ATM.

Anyways, Chesnaught is really the only pokemon that can completely handle Virizion. At +2(It is surprisingly easy to set up SD in the current meta with all the walls you can sub in on), Celebi and Latias won't be enjoying taking a stone edge and with SR, Zapdos and Rotom-Heat are 1HKO'd. Shuckle can take any hit but that's all it does and it's most viable set actually benefits Virizion because it only uses knock-off as an attacking move which gives Virizion a boost. Hitmontop is tanky enough to survive a hit but can't 1HKO back unless Virizion has CC'd. Same thing with Cofagrigus. Overall, Virizion really only has 2 maybe 3 defensive stops to it. Additionally the walls it does break through happen to be: Chansey, Umbreon, Vapoeron, Slowbro, Suicune(Lum stop's scald burn), Snorlax, Jellicent, Hippo, porygon 2 and any other bulky water, ground, and normal type. In addition, it doesn't fear any of the S rank pokemon besides scarf Mienshao and Hawlucha after unburden.

Crobat has no issue switching in on the SD turn, as does Latias and Tornadus (either forme), since they will both outspeed and OHKO you next turn. As for Celebi
+2 252 Atk Virizion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 170-200 (49.8 - 58.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even close.
Nidoqueen can also check virizion even at +2 if at 90% health. Heracross checks you at +2 if at >70% health.

Other hard stops also include reuniclus, who could not care less if you got to +2, and Doublade, who could not give a damn whatever you did.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Crobat has no issue switching in on the SD turn, as does Latias and Tornadus (either forme), since they will both outspeed and OHKO you next turn. As for Celebi
+2 252 Atk Virizion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 170-200 (49.8 - 58.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not even close.
Nidoqueen can also check virizion even at +2 if at 90% health. Heracross checks you at +2 if at >70% health.

Other hard stops also include reuniclus, who could not care less if you got to +2, and Doublade, who could not give a damn whatever you did.

My point is that Virizion breaks through most wall/stall things not necessarily the offensive versions of these pokemon. Crobat and Tronadus forms are both more stall breakers/pivots than walls but I do understand that Virizion can't really do much against them. Nidoqueen and Heracross are offensive as well (Though naturally bulky) so I don't really count that as relevant because they aren't walls.

Reuniclus is a 2HKO (Although it can switch in on the SD turn) +2 252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 198-234 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO

I'm just pointing out that Virizion has its use as breaking through most of the tiers common walls. Thus it has use on a team which i was defending after it was commented that Virizion and Cobalion shouldn't be used.

Edit: Calcs for Nidoqueen : +2 252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 256-303 (76.1 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (can switch in on the SD)
+1 252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 193-228 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO If it gets hit with the knock off though it gets 2HKo'd and outspeed.

For Heracross: Stone Edge is a 2HKO making it a somewhat reliable stop but if it isn't scarfed and doesn't sub in on the sd turn it will lose.

 

[Kingpoleon]

First of all, everyone know's at this point with Knock off running rampant that the physical Virizon SD+Lum berry set is the most effective ATM.

Anyways, Chesnaught is really the only pokemon that can completely handle Virizion. At +2(It is surprisingly easy to set up SD in the current meta with all the walls you can sub in on), Celebi and Latias won't be enjoying taking a stone edge and with SR, Zapdos and Rotom-Heat are 1HKO'd. Shuckle can take any hit but that's all it does and it's most viable set actually benefits Virizion because it only uses knock-off as an attacking move which gives Virizion a boost. Hitmontop is tanky enough to survive a hit but can't 1HKO back unless Virizion has CC'd. Same thing with Cofagrigus. Overall, Virizion really only has 2 maybe 3 defensive stops to it. Additionally the walls it does break through happen to be: Chansey, Umbreon, Vapoeron, Slowbro, Suicune(Lum stop's scald burn), Snorlax, Jellicent, Hippo, porygon 2 and any other bulky water, ground, and normal type. In addition, it doesn't fear any of the S rank pokemon besides scarf Mienshao and Hawlucha after unburden.

Celebi is 3HKO'd. Latias is faster, and OHKOs 100% of the time after SR. I will admit, Zapdos loses to Stone Edge. Hitmontop can use Aerial Ace(I carry it for Heracross and Chesnaught), Cofagrigus can just use WoW twice, while you can't 2HKO. Shuckle can setup Sticky Web, Sandstorm, or hit it with Infestation. Defensive Zapdos isn't 1HKO'd and can use HP Flying(though it can't switch in), Defensive Rotom-Heat can revenge-kill too. But those 2 can't counter it. Also, I am pretty sure Virizion is in RU range. I don't think you are against banning Knock Off(atomicllamas and maybe Oddish is the best) so I won't argue more about it unless you say you are. Also, please don't turn this into a Virizion Discussion Thread.

 

[Kingler]

Nidoking is such an excellent Pokemon in today's metagame. Stall teams with Mega Aggron + Florges cores are extremely common, and Nidoking just shits on both of them. Its mix of excellent coverage and power makes it a threat to any team. It does face trouble from more offensively oriented teams though, as its Speed isn't the best and its bulk is subpar, but Heracross and Meinshao have been increasing in popularity as of late, and Nidoking makes for an excellent check to both of them. It also deals with Mega Manecric and Mega Houndoom very well, as they can't OHKO it without a boost while it can easily OHKO back with Earth Power. Nidoqueen is a better Pokemon if you want an offensive Stealth Rock setter or tank, since it can stomach crucial moves like Darm's Flare Blitz and Crawdaunt's Aqua Jet, but Nidoking is much better for tearing apart defensive cores and many common stall Pokemon.

Another Pokemon that I have been liking is Kingdra. After it sets up a Focus Energy, it becomes a complete monster. It actually 2HKOes Chansey after Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes, meaning it isn't a safe switch in at all if hazards are up. Furthermore, Kingdra's Speed tier and bulk aren't too bad for the current metagame, and it can even stomach hits like 252 Latias's Dragon Pulse granted hazards aren't up. It isn't too easy to use though, since it has trouble setting up and is easily forced out, but alongside Sticky Web support, it is a complete monster.

Nidoking is pretty much the reason I use Vaporeon to WishPass to Mega Aggron instead of Florges. Considering Vaporeon can actually take a Sludge Wave + Thunderbolt reliably and retaliate with Scald without dying is something worthwhile. Physical Nidoking sets are a good bit trickier though, but Latias can generally handle it regardless of whether Mega Aggron or Vaporeon happens to be in if I find out that it's physical (immune to EQ/EP and resists TPunch/TBolt) Also note that Vaporeon gets Heal Bell, so it can fill in for Florges on stall teams if you're really struggling with Nidoking and still need something with decent synergy with Mega Aggron.

What do you guys think of Entei? It got a couple of really cool toys in Sacred Fire and Assault Vest this generation. Thanks to not having to rely on Flare Blitz, Entei can actually put its decent bulk to good use with an AV set while the CB set can stick around longer thanks to Defog, the ability to use Sacred Fire, and no need to use Flare Blitz.

Nidoking tbh isn't that hard to deal with as long as you switch out smartly. I run defensive Roserade and Zapdos and as long as they get a free switch-in, both can damage it quite well. Honestly, you need to predict a little, but Nidoking is such a beast that aside from very reliable special walls or Chansey, you HAVE to predict or RK (sadly, the latter is no option for stall). Nidoking is a ferocious wallbreaker :(

Onto the subject of Entei, idk it just seems like CM Slowbro and Crocune bait. Also Crawdaunt can switch in but it can get burned... I mean, Entei can burn CMBro and do some actualharm toit, but Crocune really dgaf and Entei has an SR weakness, limiting its switch-in capabilities. I'd want something that gives more bang as a Fire-type, like Arcanine, Victini, or Chandelure. Sure, Sacred Fire is cool, but that's all Entei really does :(

 

[Oddish is the best]

Celebi is 3HKO'd. Latias is faster, and OHKOs 100% of the time after SR. I will admit, Zapdos loses to Stone Edge. Hitmontop can use Aerial Ace(I carry it for Heracross and Chesnaught), Cofagrigus can just use WoW twice, while you can't 2HKO. Shuckle can setup Sticky Web, Sandstorm, or hit it with Infestation. Defensive Zapdos isn't 1HKO'd and can use HP Flying(though it can't switch in), Defensive Rotom-Heat can revenge-kill too. But those 2 can't counter it. Also, I am pretty sure Virizion is in RU range. I don't think you are against banning Knock Off(atomicllamas and maybe Oddish is the best) so I won't argue more about it unless you say you are. Also, please don't turn this into a Virizion Discussion Thread.

Just because a pokemon is in RU range doesn't mean it's bad. Virizion has a B rank on the viability ranking thread and thus has a solid place in the metagame. Disregarding it completely is just ignorant.

That being said I guess I can stop arguing for Virizion but it shouldn't be completely scoffed at as a pokemon as it can be quite effective.

 

[skies]

What are your thoughts on Mixed Crawdaunt? I recommend running 252 Atk / 184 SpA / 76 Spe with a Naughty Nature, as this is enough to outspeed min Speed Chesnaught, while giving a boost to Ice Beam. Ice Beam always 2HKOes Chesnaught, and hitting it on the switch will result in it being KO'ed after.

 

[panamaxis]

does mixed crawdaunt hit anything important other than Chesnaught? Because you can always 2HKO it with CB Aerial Ace. It has the room for it anyway, Crabhammer + Knock Off + Aqua jet hits nearly everything already. LO Aerial also 2HKOs chesnaught if it's that much of a problem and obviously virizion has no chance of taking it. I haven't tried it though so maybe Ice Beam is cool for hitting some other stuff like zygarde and Tangrowth.

Btw you have special atk evs twice on that set, is it supposed to be 184 SpA / 76 Spe or 184 Spe / 76 SpA?

 

[Shiny Minun]

What are your thoughts on Mixed Crawdaunt? I recommend running 252 Atk / 184 SpA / 76 SpA with a Naughty Nature, as this is enough to outspeed min Speed Chesnaught, while giving a boost to Ice Beam. Ice Beam always 2HKOes Chesnaught, and hitting it on the switch will result in it being KO'ed after.

This set while interesting fails to 2HKO Max Sp.def Chestnaught, which I've seen bumping around. Even with Max Sp.atk Naughty, you only have a 3.9% to 2HKO with leftovers still on him. However, just 1 spike gives you a good chance to 2HKO, you'd need at least 3 damaging hazards up to guarantee it.
Physically defensive chestnaughts, however. Do not stand a chance.

You're probably better off running aerial ace if you're wanting that badly to counter your counter.

 

[skies]

This set while interesting fails to 2HKO Max Sp.def Chestnaught, which I've seen bumping around. Even with Max Sp.atk Naughty, you only have a 3.9% to 2HKO with leftovers still on him. However, just 1 spike gives you a good chance to 2HKO, you'd need at least 3 damaging hazards up to guarantee it.
Physically defensive chestnaughts, however. Do not stand a chance.

You're probably better off running aerial ace if you're wanting that badly to counter your counter.

Who runs SpD Chesnaught? And Aerial Ace 2HKOes it, just like Ice Beam.

does mixed crawdaunt hit anything important other than Chesnaught? Because you can always 2HKO it with CB Aerial Ace. It has the room for it anyway, Crabhammer + Knock Off + Aqua jet hits nearly everything already. LO Aerial also 2HKOs chesnaught if it's that much of a problem and obviously virizion has no chance of taking it. I haven't tried it though so maybe Ice Beam is cool for hitting some other stuff like zygarde and Tangrowth.

Btw you have special atk evs twice on that set, is it supposed to be 184 SpA / 76 Spe or 184 Spe / 76 SpA?

Ahh, sorry, fixed it.

 

[Shiny Minun]

Who runs SpD Chesnaught? And Aerial Ace 2HKOes it, just like Ice Beam.

A lot of people are running it because it can still do its job (counter crawdaunt) without being fully invested in defense. Lets him tank things he otherwise would not and get seeds up, or low sweep to get the higher speed he likes.

And Chestnaught is one of the few things that is comfortable switching into a Crawdaunt, if the Crawdaunts change and become mostly mixed, Chestnaught will have to build to deal with it. Untill they start all running AA, then we need to find a new counter.

 

[Kingpoleon]

A lot of people are running it because it can still do its job (counter crawdaunt) without being fully invested in defense. Lets him tank things he otherwise would not and get seeds up, or low sweep to get the higher speed he likes.

And Chestnaught is one of the few things that is comfortable switching into a Crawdaunt, if the Crawdaunts change and become mostly mixed, Chestnaught will have to build to deal with it. Untill they start all running AA, then we need to find a new counter.

If people are running it, it must be below 1.2% of them according to this:http://paste.ubuntu.com/6859271/
I am pretty sure Crawdaunt doesn't need Aerial Ace FOR ONE THING. This is more stupid than when Bud Hertz started talking about using SpecsDaunt. The logic behind that is worse than HP Ground on Genesect was. I am 99.99999999999...% certain that not every Crawdaunt will start running Aerial Ace.

 

[Calloflochie]

If people are running it, it must be below 1.2% of them according to this:http://paste.ubuntu.com/6859271/
I am pretty sure Crawdaunt doesn't need Aerial Ace FOR ONE THING. This is more stupid than when Bud Hertz started talking about using SpecsDaunt. The logic behind that is worse than HP Ground on Genesect was. I am 99.99999999999...% certain that not every Crawdaunt will start running Aerial Ace.

Why would you be opposed to a mon running something to beat it's check/counters? All Crawdaunt really needs is Knock Off/CrabHammer/Aqua Jet/Filler meaning that the filler can be Aerial Ace if it really wants to get past it's main counter, Chesnaught. When people got used to the idea of Heatran being a very safe switch in to Genesect, people began to run Hidden Power Ground in order to combat this switch in. That's what progression of the metagame is, the offensive mons identify their counters and adapt their sets in order to beat them, so i can't see any reason why it's stupid to run a move in order to beat one of the ONLY mons in the metagame that can safely switch into it's dual STABs.

Edit: And i know most Crawdaunt opt for Swords Dance but at this point in the meta Crawdaunt really doesn't need to boost (with SD) it's already monstrously strong STABs when so much is already 2HKO/OHKO'd by it. And Superpower only hits Empoleon and Magnezone harder (who are both OHKO'd by knock off anyway) than it's dual STABs already do so Aerial Ace isn't a bad option. (calcs provided below)

Calcs

Mega Aggron
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 145-172 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 162-192 (47 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

Jirachi
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 204-240 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 656-776 (162.3 - 192%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Metagross
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 163-192 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 524-620 (143.9 - 170.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Empoleon
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 452-534 (121.5 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 366-432 (98.3 - 116.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Magnezone
252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 362-426 (128.8 - 151.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 292-344 (103.9 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Schpoonman]

Considering that one thing is far and away the most reliable stop to Crawdaunt, and like Panamaxis and Calloflochie said, Crabhammer+Knock Off+Aqua Jet is pretty much all Crawdaunt needs for his usual purposes, I wouldn't rule it out. Specs Daunt is stupid, HP Ground Genesect is stupid, you're giving up valuable coverage. But being able to always 2HKO your biggest counter? I think that's worth some consideration. Ease up on the hyperbole.

 

[Shiruba]

Agreed. I ran Aerial Ace on my ScarfShao back in BWUU, largely for Heracross, but Virizion was a nice bonus [the Virizion users didn't expect it as much], and it was cool if they took the bait [crappy if they switched out, though; Ace is still on the recommended sets iirc], and while Ace is a shitty move to be locked in to if you're choiced, it's still great to remove a threat like that from the playing field.

 

[panamaxis]

Of course not every Crawdaunt will start running Aerial Ace, but at the very least it should be a no brainer for the last move on CB Crawdaunt (99% of the time you're only using Knock Off, Crabhammer and Aqua Jet anyway, so why wouldn't you run a move that lets you bypass your best counter? If you're not using Aerial Ace on CB crawdaunt your next best option is probably Superpower but as Calloflochie has shown Crawdaunt doesn't really need Superpower anyway.

And hey, you get to hit Toxicroak too which is always nice.

 

[Calloflochie]

Also to anyone reading this thread, please don't actually start running Aerial Ace on Crawdaunt because it is already shitty enough to team build for :[ Let alone destroying the one mon that can actually switch on it and regain momentum for the opposing team :[